Apogee GTX

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Lastly, mount the NB block, if your going to use one, or remount the factory hp after you completed your bow mounting. This screwed my NB mount and caused my NB temps to float really high.

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Since your'e on the NB topic.. and I know it's off thread, but..

How many would like MCW30 special 4-point mount brackets made for the EVGA i680?

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Originally Posted by gabe

Since your'e on the NB topic.. and I know it's off thread, but..

How many would like MCW30 special 4-point mount brackets made for the EVGA i680?

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would it keep the price the same?? If anything gabe, i think a better mounting system for the SPP would be more prefered. Many have to custom design something, or use zipties. :nono:

But if it would keep the cost of the block the same to keep it competitive then DD's, im sure it would be a good option.

However, SPP!! mounting should be your primary task. :P More people buy these for that then the NB.

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Originally Posted by gabe

Barbs: really nice ; I like the extra ring too. Are these euro style (1/2 buried o-ring into fitting), or separate o-ring like ours?

Teflon: and you will never have a problem. I was just concerned that ppl would think that Teflon is either needed or effective in terms of leak protection with straight threads, since the seal is really only made by the o-ring. On the other hand, they can't hurt either, so there's no harm there :shrug:

Ghost chip: :D :D :D

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They are Euro style, with a indentation for the O-Ring to sit in, excuse the shoddy photography - company only gives us Ixus400 due to the fact we only take 640 res photos to upload every day, so nothing better needed. If I wasn't building a dual loop cube case - I would splash out on a SLR.

http://www.mekerz.tsohost.co.uk/Lian...eGTX%20007.jpg

http://www.mekerz.tsohost.co.uk/Lian...eGTX%20008.jpg

RE Teflon: Yeah, I know G1/4 the o-ring gives the seal but I suppose teflon tape has carried on from before G1/4 was popular. I wasn't into watercooling or probably PC's back then but when reading up before my first loop - teflon was the thing to do. So yeah probably un needed but as you say, no harm.

RE: eVGA 680i - Think it would be in your best interest to. Think out of all the 680i boards this will grow very popular due to eVGA being the only board to go for a revision to clock quads higher. I don't own a 680i board so no skin off my back. Even the DFI board doesn't do as well compared with a quad but maybe Oskar just hasn't hit the right nail yet.

ok..corrison may not be an issue but what about the long term bowing on the mobo...what effect will have

I am beginning to want ot upgrade my Storm....I never thought I would say this but the the GTX looks like a viable option

I hope in a few months to get a Lian Li V2100 and PA120.3

BTW..I am a big fan of swiftech(MCW60/Storm rev2,mcp655, MX159-cu)

I just hate the MCW60 mounting...I got right before the mounting setup changed last yr...I had no idea there was a change coming

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Originally Posted by gabe

We already have a Delrin top: it's the Apogee GT. As to its performance, well do the Math: Naekuh himself has verified his numbers up and now down versus the competition, and we have verified that the GT is only ~1C off the GTX at 100Watts and 1.5GPM. So it clearly tells you were the GT is located performance wise compared to the competition; it's made of Delrin, and it's average street price is $10 to $15 less than competition.

What is most distressing to me is the fact that people in this forum do not trust our data. Yet, this data always end up being verified over time, despite the relentless efforts of the anti-swiftech crowd. I could see not trusting the new kid on the block, but we have been in business for 7 years, and published professional data for what? close to 5 years now? If our numbers were skewed, people would know it after so much time. The only thing we don't publish is competitive data, which doesn't mean that we don't conduct competitive testing in-house. We simply chose not to create controversy by publishing it. So we know were our blocks are on the performance curve, at the tenth of the degree Celsius, and let's just say that we feel very comfortable about it. I also think that the backplate we are about to release will indeed bring both the GT and the GTX a mounting repeatability that will definitely allow all users to exploit the true potential of these blocks.

Back to the GTX and the plating issue, we made a mistake several years ago with anodized blocks. But everybody learns from their mistakes. I know we have, and as a result I am completely confident with the process that we are using now. The fact that you and a few others don't feel comfortable with it is a result of bad past experiences, and I understand it. But progress is made precisely by making mistakes, learning from them, and growing from there. Those who remain stuck in the old ways do not grow: they stagnate and end up falling behind the pace of technology.

Frankly the chances of corrosion in these blocks versus say the chances of machined acrylic tops cracking are thousands to 1. Yet, you guys buy acrylic top blocks (one piece VGA blocks come to mind) like mad. Doesn't matter that theyr'e being recalled. Doesn't matter that some blocks don't come with oring grooves and users have to JB Weld the fittings.. But when Swiftech tells you that the Storm is outdated, or that we use state-of-the-art plating, you chose not to believe it. Fine, what can I say. Just remember one thing if any: WE gave water-block base bowing to the world, not a mere artifact resulting from a manufacturing process, but a conscious decision that we made to incorporate this technology in our offerings based on the knowledge developped from testing. Is bowing the way we do it now the end of the line? Not by a long shot. Right now, it indicates a certain road to follow: hydraulic performance is reaching a plateau, and work needs to be done on other aspects.

The fact that a few of you are putting pressure on us to make a Delrin top (forget brass) for this block is one thing. And maybe we will in the future.. after all if it can sell a few hundred more water-blocks, why would I be against it? But the objective reality is simple: there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current process that we use to plate the GTX, period.

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Gabe really enjoyed this comment. I have been a supporter of your plating process from the get go. Even to where the "trusty mod" here gave me an infraction for blasting the ignorant, who are ignorant and know nothing but hearsay about this process. Not one of them has provided proof of failure of you plating process.
But alas, the average consumer isn't too smart or simply doesn't want to do a little research these days. Spoon fed is the way it is...


Ply

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Originally Posted by Plywood99

Gabe really enjoyed this comment. I have been a supporter of your plating process from the get go. Even to where the "trusty mod" here gave me an infraction for blasting the ignorant, who are ignorant and know nothing but hearsay about this process. Not one of them has provided proof of failure of you plating process.
But alas, the average consumer isn't too smart or simply doesn't want to do a little research these days. Spoon fed is the way it is...


Ply

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Ply, you shouldn't have been saying "shut up", that's a little too harsh...
Just be sure to follow the forum rules as best as you can ;)

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Originally Posted by IanY

You are a rarity that would take the trouble to buy and see for yourself. Go back to the beginning of this thread and count the number of people who are crapping on this block without a single morsel of ownership.

Hey, when I'm free, I'm opening both GTX blocks and cleaning them. I dump out loop water every month now. If its dye, I will see it in the water, because my liquid is clear and I don't use ethylene glycol (such as Pentosin or Zerex). If its small amount of dye, then it won't show up in my liquid, and so its inconsequential.

Hey, I like the FuZion as well, so you won't see me bad mouthing the FuZion.

Having said that, I am determined to become Storm free.. one day, I'll scream "free at last!"

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That sums it up right there, doesn't it...


Ply

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Originally Posted by Plywood99

Gabe really enjoyed this comment. I have been a supporter of your plating process from the get go. Even to where the "trusty mod" here gave me an infraction for blasting the ignorant, who are ignorant and know nothing but hearsay about this process. Not one of them has provided proof of failure of you plating process.
But alas, the average consumer isn't too smart or simply doesn't want to do a little research these days. Spoon fed is the way it is...


Ply

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You can't blame users for questioning such things in my opinion. These blocks cost money, as does the tubing, rad etc and corrosion will happen in them all from one block. People have seen the crap thats left behind when it happens.

So it's kind of safer than sorry.

Thats not to say gabe can't be trusted, and I've never said he couldn't be in this thread - I think it takes a lot to sway someones perception of something once they have seen or experienced something bad about it.

Yet I take his word on the plating and the dye not affecting my coolant enough to warrant me worrying.

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Originally Posted by nealh

ok..corrison may not be an issue but what about the long term bowing on the mobo...what effect will have

I am beginning to want ot upgrade my Storm....I never thought I would say this but the the GTX looks like a viable option

I hope in a few months to get a Lian Li V2100 and PA120.3

BTW..I am a big fan of swiftech(MCW60/Storm rev2,mcp655, MX159-cu)

I just hate the MCW60 mounting...I got right before the mounting setup changed last yr...I had no idea there was a change coming

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cant really answer your question on tihs neal. My board wasnt kept at the bow bend for a very long time. I did note it did sqew my NB mounting, which threw my system temps off the sky.

Ummm, 3 days of bowing and my CPu block showed almost no warpage. I did a flat test on it, and its still flat after i swaped over the oversized O-ring. Make sure you definitely use a good backplate, and get longer screws to help you mount the block. The stock screws wont work, there just too short.

Also, the MCW30 on the SB, is very tricky at best. I had to use old screws from my Maze4 GPU blocks to mount it securly. Bolting from the bottom is very tricky at best, because you cant get it perfect on the top go. The thing moves when you try to slide the bolt on the back, or the screw on top. Im sure if you fix this issue, your MCW30 sales will improve... i dont think you have a issue with it now, seeing how most places are SOLD out. :D

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0592.jpg

This is what i mean... wish i could get a cleaner top pick, but its pratically sitting on my video card. :T

And yeah. the SPP gets hotter then the MCP. Which is why a good mounting system is required. Even with this much flow, i still have a hard time keeping it under 40 at load.

What size mounting screws should I get? I'm planning on mounting with a back plate. :)

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Originally Posted by Mekrel

What size mounting screws should I get? I'm planning on mounting with a back plate. :)

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take your stock mounting screws. And goto a hardware store, unless gabe can tell you the exact size and catigory they are.

Then just get ones 3/4 of an inch to 1 inch longer. I always liked long mounting screws, thats just me, 3/4 an inch to make the black top lugs fit with little to no gap from your nuts.

1 inch for extra clearance so you can just slide the block and screws and everything without screwing the mount.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0570.jpg
1.25inches longer screws were used in these pics.

If you have a DD block, i suggest you pick up some brass nuts.

Brass on brass = sexy to me :D

With all the new waterblocks coming out it is a watercooling junkie's dream! :D

Yea, I could see a brass Edelbrock, now that would be class. :cool:

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Originally Posted by SiGfever

With all the new waterblocks coming out it is a watercooling junkie's dream! :D

Yea, I could see a brass Edelbrock, now that would be class. :cool:

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Ur best bet would be to bug alex to make one... i think gabe announced his possition strongly on the brass top:

To requote:
The fact that a few of you are putting pressure on us to make a Delrin top (forget brass) for this block is one thing. And maybe we will in the future.. after all if it can sell a few hundred more water-blocks, why would I be against it? But the objective reality is simple: there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current process that we use to plate the GTX, period.

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

get a room,

andyc

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Lol, exhibit A...


Ply

hey mcoffey, you do know the MCW-6500T uses alu on its top right?? i think it was mentioned a few posts back.

Your going back to your original delema now. :D

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Also, the MCW30 on the SB, is very tricky at best. I had to use old screws from my Maze4 GPU blocks to mount it securly. Bolting from the bottom is very tricky at best, because you cant get it perfect on the top go. The thing moves when you try to slide the bolt on the back, or the screw on top. Im sure if you fix this issue, your MCW30 sales will improve... i dont think you have a issue with it now, seeing how most places are SOLD out. :D

And yeah. the SPP gets hotter then the MCP. Which is why a good mounting system is required. Even with this much flow, i still have a hard time keeping it under 40 at load.

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The problem with SPP is simple: 2 mounting points, and crowded area. Primary issue is rocking of the w/b due to lateral pressure exerted by the tubes. But reflecting on the problem gave me a solution I should have seen along time ago. So now I have to go work on it. Something's cooking!

Thanks !

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Originally Posted by Mekrel

What size mounting screws should I get? I'm planning on mounting with a back plate. :)

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screws are 6-32

length? Your choice really.


Note that our upcoming backplate will use metric (bracing for explosion of criticism). But there is a good reason for it -please have faith ppl- and when you see it, I believe you will like it.

Hmm, the GTX is testing far better than the GT. Confusering to say the least. I asked myself, "Self!", how is this possible? Swiftech says 1c at best. I am finding significantly more than 1c. Anyhow, is it JUST the diagonal waterflow? Lower deck height? Hmmm? Well, I have another theory which will be confirmed or denied tomorrow.

http://www.anonforums.com/builds/tes...on/apogee1.jpg

http://www.anonforums.com/builds/tes...on/apogee2.jpg

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Ur best bet would be to bug alex to make one... i think gabe announced his possition strongly on the brass top:

To requote:
The fact that a few of you are putting pressure on us to make a Delrin top (forget brass) for this block is one thing. And maybe we will in the future.. after all if it can sell a few hundred more water-blocks, why would I be against it? But the objective reality is simple: there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current process that we use to plate the GTX, period.

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Yea but at my age I have learned that sometimes the wanting is better than the having. :)

Brass has class! :cool: :cool:

[QUOTE=nikhsub1;2119269]Hmm, the GTX is testing far better than the GT. Confusering to say the least. I asked myself, "Self!", how is this possible? Swiftech says 1c at best. I am finding significantly more than 1c. Anyhow, is it JUST the diagonal waterflow? Lower deck height? Hmmm? Well, I have another theory which will be confirmed or denied tomorrow.
QUOTE]

isnt that the top the the GT??? ahahaha..

I think you'll notice better temps with the GTX top. But then again, i think i scared teh pants out of you with my top pictures.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

isnt that the top the the GT??? ahahaha..

I think you'll notice better temps with the GTX top. But then again, i think i scared teh pants out of you with my top pictures.

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Yes it is, good eye. You didnt scare me, I would NEVER run aluminum in my loop no matter what it's coated with :) The GTX had it's 5 mounts on my test rig.

In that case, you are not testing the proper product and your results are not reflective of the actual product. At least state that disclaimer. One wouldn't think that the spacing of the barbs matter?