Anand: PII vs. Q9550 vs. i7 crossfire, Phenom II = smoother

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Originally Posted by keithlm

There is actually is a serious conversation going on when you ignore the attempts to derail the thread.

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This is a discussion that will never end. I am honestly suprised that it keeps going on. No one wants to admit it is true if they don't Favor AMD, and vise versa. I am sorry I posted my humored suprise. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Titan7171

Heres an idea, instead of the constant question asking, disbelief and speculation here in the AMD forums why dont you guys go right to the source, email the guy who wrote the article......ask him about drivers, software, firmware, hardware,.......hes the one that said it.....we the ones that experience it. Bottom line is whatever the reason is, it is smoother. If you dont want to believe it many of us dont really care, in addition the real question is not what makes AMD systems smoother but whats causing the problem with Intel........it seems like its a dirty little secret, a secret that people with both Intel and AMD realize is a horrible truth slowly seeping out as more people try out the Phenom 2. Die hard Intel users will continue to point fingers, deny and put the focus here so you dont have to admit theres a problem when truthfully you should be looking within to figure out what your problem is.

Its like having 2 cars, one runs great and the other backfires constantly when you drive down the road.......instead of repairing the car that backfires you bring the otherone to the dealer to figure why its running great.......this is what you are doing here.

You: do you have any tests to figure why this car runs great?

Dealer: what do you mean?

You: well this car runs excellent but my other car backfires so I want to know why?

Dealer:Well why dont you bring the other car in so we can check it?

You: we can mess with the sparkplugs or maybe the muffler it has to be something making this car smoother.

Dealer: its easier to fix the problem on the actual car than to try to replicate it with a car that runs properly .....why dont you bring it in?

You: what about putting water or sugar in the gas tank will that cause a backfire we can try that I brought some with me?

Dealer: maybe but we cant be sure untill we check the actual car.

You:Maybe if we put a banana in the tailpipe it will force the car to backfire?

Dealer::rolleyes:.......neeexxxt

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Hey, I liked the anology:up:
This is pretty much what is going on.

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Originally Posted by keithlm

Please explain how is this related to your previous post.

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Well, if you haven't red my post, I'll quote my self:

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

The toppic although useless, is missleading.
Using 1 graphics card, 4870.

Phenom II 940 isn't "smoother" than i7 920. If you define "smoothness" as min framerate, then P2 940 MIN framerate is 3% slower than I7 920 and 5% higher then Q9550. If you look at the average framerates, the P2 940 is 2% slower in average of all titles than the i7 920, and 1% slower than the Q9550.

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Originally Posted by keithlm

(And since your NEW question is not a topic

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TOPIC: "Anand: PII vs. Q9550 vs. i7 crossfire, Phenom II = smoother"
QUESTION: "Explain how Phenom II is smoother than Core i7?"
:rolleyes:

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I would comment about then you'll have to search somewhere else for your answer.

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I don't need to search for the answer, because Gary Key from Anand already answered:

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Originally Posted by Gery Kay

Except for Far Cry 2 where we could raise the graphic quality settings without affecting game play, the i7 platform was no different than our two other solutions.

However, looking through the performance results and game play experiences, we have to mention just how fast Intel's Core i7 is right now. Its results were just remarkable in Far Cry 2 and it consistently scored at the top in CrossFire mode in the other games even though it has the lowest core clock speed. If platform pricing were better, then the Core i7 series would have a clear recommendation for an upgrade if you were considering a multi-GPU setup.

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How can anybody draw a conclusion that "PhenomII is smoother than Ci7" based on such comments of the author of the article and based on the numbers(just look at the crossfire results and imagine what will happen if the test were done with fastrer graphics cards)?

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I'd suggest that you move to Intel subsection

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What makes you think that you are appropriate to suggest me where I should read/post?
Is it because you don't agree with me or something else?

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where you find a ton of people that will discuss this with you.)

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I already found tons of people :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing on me, just because I don't share their opinon and/or bias.

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Originally Posted by iandh

reading comprehension ftw

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I red the title, your conclusion, the article and authors conclsion. Like previously I still think that the topic is missleading because according to the author P2 940isn't "smoother" than Ci7 920(and what about the faster Ci7 models?)

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I'll give you a break here because I'm not sure whether english is your second language.

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It's my fourth language, so maybe I haven't understood you correctly.

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I said smoother gameplay AND higher min fps. The "AND" delineates them as two seperate items, so in actuality I said the exact opposite of what you though I said.

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OK, All the comments in the article regarding i7 and P2 were suggesting that P2 isn't smoother nor is faster than i7, but it is the oposite...with the only exception in CoH where i7 had hikups unlike P2 which was running smooth. I was trying to figure out what leaded you to your conclusion and I thought that maybe it was the min framerate, where P2 shines.

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

TOPIC: "Anand: PII vs. Q9550 vs. i7 crossfire, Phenom II = smoother"
QUESTION: "Explain how Phenom II is smoother than Core i7?"
:rolleyes:

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I think because you own an i7 you are having trouble reading the title.

I understand that it could be seen as saying PII is smoother than i7, but that is not how I meant it.

The thread title means:

1. Author of article

2. Name of article

3. Intended point of discussion of article

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Originally Posted by iandh

I think because you own an i7 you are having trouble reading the title.

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I see lots of people having "trouble" reading the title as you say, and they're not only i7 owners, so...it could be a problem at the other end of the line.

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Originally Posted by iandh

I understand that it could be seen as saying PII is smoother than i7, but that is not how I meant it.

The thread title means:

1. Author of article

2. Name of article

3. Intended point of discussion of article

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Why don't you edit the thread title and remove the i7 part, and clear things up ?

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Originally Posted by iandh

I think because you own an i7 you are having trouble reading the title.

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Currently I have 5 more PCs, but none of them with a P2. I love computers and hardware and since 1988 I have owned all types of x86 AMD & Intel desktop CPUs with the exception of K6-III, Yonah, Phenom I and Phenom II. So i7 is only one of many CPUs that I have had.

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I understand that it could be seen as saying PII is smoother than i7, but that is not how I meant it.

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That's how I understood you, but it doesn't matter if it was misunderstanding or wrong interpretation. We're here to discuss and clear that up.

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The thread title means:

1. Author of article

2. Name of article

3. Intended point of discussion of article

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Well, I think that the author wanted to say that P2 940 is a better pick than Q9550 for gaming, but not better than i7. He was going to recommend i7 if the overall system price was lower.

It seems like this thread going nowhere.

I7 is faster and PII is cheaper. If peeps prefer to game with I7 then good for them, if PII bring back the fun that went awol since P1 then go for it.

:shakes:
The problem is not the drivers
The problem is not the chips

The problem is the unpredictable humans playing the game

You're not doing what the chip predicted it would do
The chips have a path all figured out, but human does't follow that path and the chip has to figure out a new path
It's just more noticable when the Intel chip has to recover because of its bigger caches

Just follow the path for maximum fps

BAD HUMANS

Cheers
Deathstar
:ROTF:

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

QUESTION: "Explain how Phenom II is smoother than Core i7?"
:rolleyes:

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Have you seen that in some tests i7 is very fast on low resolutions, but if you increase the resolution it slows down considerably. It wins easy on low resolution but is sometimes the slowest on higher resolutions. Can you explain that?

I think that I very strange anyway. One reason could be part of the explanation is that i7 has a smaller cache compared to Phenom II and the cache isn't as effective when memory is fragmented.

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

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Originally Posted by Gery Kay
Except for Far Cry 2 where we could raise the graphic quality settings without affecting game play, the i7 platform was no different than our two other solutions.

However, looking through the performance results and game play experiences, we have to mention just how fast Intel's Core i7 is right now. Its results were just remarkable in Far Cry 2 and it consistently scored at the top in CrossFire mode in the other games even though it has the lowest core clock speed. If platform pricing were better, then the Core i7 series would have a clear recommendation for an upgrade if you were considering a multi-GPU setup.

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How can anybody draw a conclusion that "PhenomII is smoother than Ci7" based on such comments of the author of the article and based on the numbers(just look at the crossfire results and imagine what will happen if the test were done with fastrer graphics cards)?

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Maybe you dont understand that just because something is faster doesnt mean its smoother?

I can throw you out of a plane without a parachute...as you are falling you go into cardiac arrest, your body goes into spasms and you are foaming at the mouth......youll defintely get to where you're going faster but I doubt it will be very smooth ride.

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

Well, I think that the author wanted to say that P2 940 is a better pick than Q9550 for gaming, but not better than i7. He was going to recommend i7 if the overall system price was lower.

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of course the problem is that we have already had this discussion and everyone that posts in it now is just bringing up things that have already been said. so no more discussion about this. everything has been said, if you want to test the smoothness then people need to get a testing method and find 2 systems to test. otherwise this thread should just be closed.

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Originally Posted by Titan7171

I can throw you out of a plane without a parachute...as you are falling you go into cardiac arrest, your body goes into spasms and you are foaming at the mouth......youll defintely get to where you're going faster but I doubt it will be very smooth ride.

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car analogies FTW :p:

CORE i7 = Ferrari Formula 1 car

PHENOM = Maybach

The F1 is super fast but very bumpy, whereas the Maybach is more than fast enough....and is super silky smooth :)

:)

But Ferrari F1 Team is sponsored by AMD :) So AMD Core i7 ? ;)

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Originally Posted by gosh

Have you seen that in some tests i7 is very fast on low resolutions, but if you increase the resolution it slows down considerably. It wins easy on low resolution but is sometimes the slowest on higher resolutions. Can you explain that?

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I address the problem at the chipset, PCI-e. i5 should behave differently.

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I think that I very strange anyway. One reason could be part of the explanation is that i7 has a smaller cache compared to Phenom II and the cache isn't as effective when memory is fragmented.

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Deneb and Bloomfield have different cache implementation, so you can't draw conclusions from their cache capacity. Anyway, Deneb has less cache than Bloomfield:
Deneb: 4x128kB L1 + 4x512kB L2 + 6144kB L3 = 8704kB total
Blomfield: 4x32kB L1 + 4x256kB L2 + 8192kB L3 = 9344kB total
As for the cache speed, i7 and and Deneb have roughly same L1 speeds, while i7 has much faster L2 and L3 caches. RAM performance is also much better on the i7. Further, the i7 has technologies like memory disambiguation which basically "hide" latency. With other words, cache and memory performance on i7 is much higher than on P2.

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with you guys.

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Then don't

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Originally Posted by Dzigit

:)

But Ferrari F1 Team is sponsored by AMD ;) So AMD Core i7 ? :)))

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He must have confused Ferrari with McLaren (or maybe Renault?) as they're the current champions (and Renault the fastest on the straights if I'm not remembering it all wrong).

BTW; The Maybach isn't that fast... AMD is a Bugatti Veyron! ;) Or to be modest; Koeningsegg CCR.

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Originally Posted by Dzigit

:)

But Ferrari F1 Team is sponsored by AMD :) So AMD Core i7 ? ;)

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:ROTF: never thought of that :clap:

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

What makes you think that you are appropriate to suggest me where I should read/post?
Is it because you don't agree with me or something else?

I already found tons of people :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing on me, just because I don't share their opinon and/or bias.

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Since you seem to be in "review" mode let us actually look at what you said:

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Read the first post. The op has defined "higher min fps" as smoother.

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Then when somebody happened to mention that you are slightly incorrect you then attempt to switch the discussion to something that was NOT in the first post AND was not being discussed at that time in your previous post. Then you get angry when people don't want to discuss this new topic that you want to discuss.

This is called baiting and switching. It is a form of trolling. You have yet again shown that you are not here with the intent of carrying on a constructive conversation.

BTW: THAT makes it appropriate for me to suggest you stop posting or move to another subsection. In addition as you have conveniently pointed out that I am NOT the only person that shares this sentiment.

Sadly we have to deal with little forum trolls like you derailing the thread yet again. (Yes I know you are going to claim you are not a troll. Most trolls honestly don't believe they are trolling.)

EDIT: Oh. And this little trolling antic has awarded you a one way trip to the ignore list.

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Originally Posted by gosh

Have you seen that in some tests i7 is very fast on low resolutions, but if you increase the resolution it slows down considerably. It wins easy on low resolution but is sometimes the slowest on higher resolutions. Can you explain that?

I think that I very strange anyway. One reason could be part of the explanation is that i7 has a smaller cache compared to Phenom II and the cache isn't as effective when memory is fragmented.

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larger L1 cache is better.

but I keep looking at I7 and I swear it's really got 8 cores lol it's like they did a trick or something to make it show up as 4 cores

take at look at cpu-z of cache associations L1 32 kbs 8 ways that's like double the core 2 duo 4 way L2 cache is the same 16 way and l3 cache is 8 way.

of course this is just some silly thoughts

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Originally Posted by keithlm

Oh. And this little trolling antic has awarded you a one way trip to the ignore list.

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This is the only part of your BS worth replying. TY&FY:up:

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Originally Posted by KELL5

car analogies FTW :p:

CORE i7 = Ferrari Formula 1 car

PHENOM = Maybach

The F1 is super fast but very bumpy, whereas the Maybach is more than fast enough....and is super silky smooth :)

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Animal analogies:rolleyes:
My Q9550 = Old Lion:rolleyes: :D
car analogies
Q9550= Old Mustang:ROTF:

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

of course the problem is that we have already had this discussion and everyone that posts in it now is just bringing up things that have already been said. so no more discussion about this. everything has been said, if you want to test the smoothness then people need to get a testing method and find 2 systems to test. otherwise this thread should just be closed.

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The part in Bold Italic sums it all up pretty well.
What most feared it would happen, did happen.
Lots of crapping, bickering and flame baiting. I hope you guys had your fun (I don't mean all of you though).

Some guys here apparently feel the need to ruin it for others. Sorry for them.

Thread closed.