COD MW2 - No PB support and Dedicated Servers

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10-20-2009, 02:45 PM
Syn.

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/boa...hreadid=103374

Quote:

The A2K Clan Website has a direct message response they received from Infinity Ward's Robert Bowling saying that he's making sure the powers-that-be at his company see the outcry and petitions over the lack of dedicated server support in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (thanks Computer and Video Games). Word is: "Definitely made a big wave, and the response will not be ignored. I'll ensure everyone at IW sees the petitions and responses [sic] to it."
10-20-2009, 02:47 PM
=SOC= Admiral

Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzt5

Attack steam?
This isn't about steam....

Ahh but if you take down steam where else will they host it?
10-20-2009, 03:25 PM
Solus Corvus

This isn't too terribly surprising, unfortunately. The recent COD games have been moving in a console-ized direction. Even without eliminating dedicated servers the game would still be tailored to console gamers, at the expense of pc gamers.

It's our fault though. At least partially. Us and the greedy publishers willing to prey on our habits. Many gamers won't bother with games that aren't AAAAAA titles by major developers. Even major developers don't want to front the money it takes to make a modern AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA title ( a lot ). So they get a publisher to pay the upfront costs of development, hoping for good sales, and hence, returns on investment. But it seems that many publishers look at it as an investment more then as a game. They see that they could make more return on their investment if they make the developer create a console version. They don't care how in impacts the game, only that it expands their potential revenue base. The gamers who don't like the compromises made to make the game work across platforms are seen by the publishers as the hardcore fringe - and their relatively small numbers means that the publisher can basically ignore them.

It's not about consoles versus PCs. I have had both for a long time and I recognize that there are things that both do well. What really matters is that we as consumers are enabling this publisher driven business model. Big AAA titles and big AAA developers mean lots of development costs. Those costs are shifted to the publisher. Publishers aren't going to take risks with pc only development - unless it's a sure thing. As a result of the high cost of entry and publishers conservative nature - small developers have a hard time and fail, diversity in the game marketplace goes down, and innovation in games goes down. Publishers won't take risks, developers won't take risks, and gamers won't take risks and as a result mediocrity abounds.

The solution is simple. We as the consumer affect what gets made. If we only buy AAA titles then that's all there is going to be a market for. Games like COD:MW2 are AAA titles. They are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator precisely because they need to have the broadest appeal. If we want to change things then we need to support smaller publishers and independent developers, on the PC and consoles. More, smaller, developers in the marketplace means more variety, more choice, and more innovation. If you want innovative gameplay try World of Goo or Osmos. You guys were wondering where to spend your $60. Buy eitheir of those games for $10 and some magic mushrooms for $30. I can pretty much guarantee that you'd have the most intense gaming experience ever and still have $20 left over for one or two more indie games, lol.
10-20-2009, 03:28 PM
Crit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodkin

Hmm, seems this time your sig was more meaningful than your post

I was actually going to say that myself, and expected someone else to note that :). The fact that so many gamers are uniting and fighting back is something that justifies me feeling purely emotional about the issue.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke

Also, "even dogs run into telephone posts sometimes" - Ryuju@NCIX :D

I also hope that this community backlash sets a precedent and goes down in history. However, Blizzard seemed to stay un-wavered as far as LAN gaming with SC2 is concerned.

I really wish there was an organization representing PC gamers to the industry, to ensure that mutual satisfaction is at least attempted to be achieved.
10-20-2009, 03:30 PM
=SOC= Admiral

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Corvus

This isn't too terribly surprising, unfortunately. The recent COD games have been moving in a console-ized direction. Even without eliminating dedicated servers the game would still be tailored to console gamers, at the expense of pc gamers.

It's our fault though. At least partially. Us and the greedy publishers willing to prey on our habits. Many gamers won't bother with games that aren't AAAAAA titles by major developers. Even major developers don't want to front the money it takes to make a modern AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA title ( a lot ). So they get a publisher to pay the upfront costs of development, hoping for good sales, and hence, returns on investment. But it seems that many publishers look at it as an investment more then as a game. They see that they could make more return on their investment if they make the developer create a console version. They don't care how in impacts the game, only that it expands their potential revenue base. The gamers who don't like the compromises made to make the game work across platforms are seen by the publishers as the hardcore fringe - and their relatively small numbers means that the publisher can basically ignore them.

It's not about consoles versus PCs. I have had both for a long time and I recognize that there are things that both do well. What really matters is that we as consumers are enabling this publisher driven business model. Big AAA titles and big AAA developers mean lots of development costs. Those costs are shifted to the publisher. Publishers aren't going to take risks with pc only development - unless it's a sure thing. As a result of the high cost of entry and publishers conservative nature - small developers have a hard time and fail, diversity in the game marketplace goes down, and innovation in games goes down. Publishers won't take risks, developers won't take risks, and gamers won't take risks and as a result mediocrity abounds.

The solution is simple. We as the consumer affect what gets made. If we only buy AAA titles then that's all there is going to be a market for. Games like COD:MW2 are AAA titles. They are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator precisely because they need to have the broadest appeal. If we want to change things then we need to support smaller publishers and independent developers, on the PC and consoles. More, smaller, developers in the marketplace means more variety, more choice, and more innovation. If you want innovative gameplay try World of Goo or Osmos. You guys were wondering where to spend your $60. Buy eitheir of those games for $10 and some magic mushrooms for $30. I can pretty much guarantee that you'd have the most intense gaming experience ever and still have $20 left over for one or two more indie games, lol.

I would like to see Relic do a game again. Last homeworld game they did had one of the most advanced game AIs known to date and i play it often and i have noticed it is an adaptive AI.
10-20-2009, 03:33 PM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crit

I really wish there was an organization representing PC gamers to the industry, to ensure that mutual satisfaction is at least attempted to be achieved.

If it's a paid job, count me in :rofl:
10-20-2009, 03:48 PM
iTravis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syn.

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/boa...hreadid=103374

I hope IW will look into it and have their answers soon. Really can't wait till the mid night launch.
10-20-2009, 04:04 PM
Chris_redfield

Quote:

Originally Posted by =SOC= Admiral

I would like to see Relic do a game again. Last homeworld game they did had one of the most advanced game AIs known to date and i play it often and i have noticed it is an adaptive AI.

Dissapointingly Relic have turned their back on PC gamers recently a bit. The new Space Marine 40,000 is console only and is leaning more towards RPG than RTS.

Having a quick look at their website they are currently joint developing a new COH but I can't seem to find much info on that.
10-20-2009, 04:09 PM
=SOC= Admiral

Another way to get them to change it is to surround the building with an angry mob that has torches and pitchforks and not let them out of their building till they have fixed what is broken. he he this would be funny. and its just crazy enough to possibly work.
10-20-2009, 04:11 PM
villa1n

Infinity Ward Asking you to BREAK TOS

My ISP has something similar to this as well

Quote:

From the Verizon Terms of Service:

Restrictions on Use. The Service is a consumer grade service and is not designed for or intended to be used for any commercial purpose. You may not resell the Service, use it for high volume purposes, or engage in similar activities that constitute such use (commercial or non-commercial). If you subscribe to a Broadband Service, you may connect multiple computers/devices within a single home to your modem and/or router to access the Service, but only through a single Verizon-issued IP address. You also may not exceed the bandwidth usage limitations that Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service, or use the Service to host any type of server. Violation of this section may result in bandwidth restrictions on your Service or suspension or termination of your Service.

IW is now asking you the break the Terms of Service of your Internet provider. Anyone brought this up yet (sorry, the search feature is unavailable right now).

Seems like we can't host private matches.
Stolen from Infinity ward forums, i d link the thread, but they re deleted so randomly at the moment its not worth it.. thoughts?:down:

EDIT* Another ISP that has confirmed it is a breach of TOS

Quote:

Re: Play MW2 - Lose your Internet Service?

20 Oct 2009 14:38
I'm actually on the phone with Optimum Online. This is more or less a tech support issue, compared to a CS issue, and according to the network tech, a server is a server, regardless of what kinda data is delivered.

He also pointed me directly to the TOS, and according to them, this definitely falls under a "server", regardless if its a game or "utility" type server (FTP,webhosting, proxy, etc)

Additional Restrictions:

In addition to the prohibitions outlined in the Acceptable Use Policy, the following restrictions apply:

Optimum Online:

Users may not run any type of server on the system.
This includes but is not limited to FTP, IRC, SMTP, POP, HTTP, SOCKS, SQUID, DNS or any multi-user forums;
Users may not register or point a domain, sub-domain, or hostname to any Optimum Online IP address. Moreover, Users may not have traffic redirected to the Optimum Online Service;
Users may not resell, share, or otherwise distribute the Service or any portion thereof to any third party without the written consent of Cablevision. For example, Subscriber may not provide Internet access to others through Optimum WiFi, a dial up connection, wireless access or host shell accounts over the Internet, provide e-mail or news service, or send a news feed.
Users may not copy, distribute or sublicense any software provided by Cablevision, except that Subscriber may make one copy of each software program for back up or archival purposes only;

Source: http://www.optimum.net/Terms
10-20-2009, 04:14 PM
Solus Corvus

Quote:

Originally Posted by =SOC= Admiral

I would like to see Relic do a game again. Last homeworld game they did had one of the most advanced game AIs known to date and i play it often and i have noticed it is an adaptive AI.

I loved the homeworld games. I hear that relic has reacquired the rights to the homeworld name, so we can always hope. [/OT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by =SOC= Admiral

Another way to get them to change it is to surround the building with an angry mob that has torches and pitchforks and not let them out of their building till they have fixed what is broken. he he this would be funny. and its just crazy enough to possibly work.

Using force or coercion may be a faster way to make them do what we want. But if we vote with our dollars it may take longer, but we could get a healthier PC gaming market as a result.
10-20-2009, 04:46 PM
zanzabar

IW net (if it is like battle net) is not a "server" its a "dynamic host client"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Corvus

Using force or coercion may be a faster way to make them do what we want. But if we vote with our dollars it may take longer, but we could get a healthier PC gaming market as a result.

we cant use our dollars to vote, they wont understand, then will blame low sales on piracy or bad press, then will try again and affter failing will drop pc from the platform
10-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Solus Corvus

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanzabar

we cant use our dollars to vote, they wont understand, then will blame low sales on piracy or bad press, then will try again and affter failing will drop pc from the platform

Publishers and developers understand money. They want ours and they need to satisfy us to get it.

Big publishers and developers may not understand right away. But the little developers you'd be helping support certainly understand money and are eager to please to get it. If little developers start gaining traction and selling well then big developers and publishers would have to sit up and take notice. Even if it does go down like you say and they are blind to our needs then good riddance, they weren't going to give us what we want anyway, despite their excuses.
10-20-2009, 04:57 PM
villa1n

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanzabar

IW net (if it is like battle net) is not a "server" its a "dynamic host client"

Private Servers , IE any scrim or match.
10-20-2009, 05:02 PM
Pontos

Quote:

Originally Posted by villa1n

Private Servers , IE any scrim or match.

Then every Left 4 Dead player that hosted a match instead of using a Dedicated Server broke the TOS...

L4D has a matchmaking system and game lobby, and in them you choose if you want to use a dedicated server to host the match, or rather being hosted by the lobby creator.

The later would be just like MW2, and nobody lost his broadband service for hosting a zombie massacre...
10-20-2009, 05:12 PM
sniperbob

It would be awesome if Steam dropped their agreement with IW and left MW2 to die. It saddens me that a week ago, the only thing i cared about was getting this game soon and playing an awesome FPS, and now all i want to do is see it die...
10-20-2009, 05:14 PM
zanzabar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pontos

Then every Left 4 Dead player that hosted a match instead of using a Dedicated Server broke the TOS...

L4D has a matchmaking system and game lobby, and in them you choose if you want to use a dedicated server to host the match, or rather being hosted by the lobby creator.

The later would be just like MW2, and nobody lost his broadband service for hosting a zombie massacre...

have u ever hosted a game in l4d its imposable to play and will over load most internet connections and will destroy a cpu

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniperbob

It would be awesome if Steam dropped their agreement with IW and left MW2 to die. It saddens me that a week ago, the only thing i cared about was getting this game soon and playing an awesome FPS, and now all i want to do is see it die...

the steam integration isnt the problem its that they dont have dedicated servers
10-20-2009, 05:20 PM
STEvil

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanzabar

have u ever hosted a game in l4d its imposable to play and will over load most internet connections and will destroy a cpu

the steam integration isnt the problem its that they dont have dedicated servers

I can do it fine on a crappy Shaw cable connection? :shrug:

Xbox/360's/PS3's running Halo or any other multitude of games must be servers..
10-20-2009, 05:33 PM
bigdaddy25fb

Maybe things will change with a patch, still doubt it though. At least Bowling is making it look like he cares.
10-20-2009, 05:33 PM
Solus Corvus

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanzabar

have u ever hosted a game in l4d its imposable to play and will over load most internet connections and will destroy a cpu

I have no problem hosting a L4D server locally and my machine is pretty average at the moment and I'm on a crappy comcast connection. It would be a problem in games with a higher player count then doom 1 though.

In fact I usually prefer a local dedicated server for L4D. The matchmaking system is horrible. There is no feeling of community - I haven't even played with the same person twice, except for people who I already knew. The random servers it puts you on are often laggy. And so on. The only way I stand it is because I play L4D casually. If I was trying to play competitively L4D's system would be unacceptable, imo. If COD:MW2's system is even remotely similar then its competitive play is already dead to me.
10-20-2009, 05:37 PM
zanzabar

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEvil

I can do it fine on a crappy Shaw cable connection? :shrug:

Xbox/360's/PS3's running Halo or any other multitude of games must be servers..

i guess that they patched when the game came out it would not work once u had a hord
10-20-2009, 05:43 PM
Pontos

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanzabar

i guess that they patched when the game came out it would not work once u had a hord

Well, they have certainly patched the game a lot :p:
But no idea on this exact matter

I know that I can host a coop game with people living near me no prob, and I only have 512kbps up...
Pings go from 30 to 60 for the clients usually.

Point is that people have been hosting games on their home broadband connections for some time now, so MW2 will not generate a massive Comcast TOS violation by it's users...
10-20-2009, 06:58 PM
ColonelCain

Unfortunatly, after pondering the issue, I don't think that we are going to get anywhere. They've probably already purchased the massive amount of back-end servers for the service, and a reasonable portion of their budget probably went towards developing IWnet. :(
10-20-2009, 07:07 PM
Spawne32

IW_Hyphen just tweeted this...

"Seriously, people, grow up. The stunts you people are pulling only hurts your case and gets you nowhere."

this is an IW developer for MW2
10-20-2009, 07:32 PM
ChinStrap

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spawne32

IW_Hyphen just tweeted this...

"Seriously, people, grow up. The stunts you people are pulling only hurts your case and gets you nowhere."

this is an IW developer for MW2

... :(

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