The ATI Radeon 5XXX Thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

jaredpace: I find that surprising, but how does that explain good performance gains from OC'ing DDR5 speeds in 4870, if it's so much over the bottleneck?

---

Well here are two reviews supporting this theory of a ~5% difference at the same clocks:
http://www.ixbt.com/video3/rv770-2-part3-d.shtml#p18
http://www.techenclave.com/reviews-a...ew-115201.html
In the first link they've down-clocked the 4870's core to 4850 speed. In the 2nd they've overclocked a 4850.

If there are small 2-3% performance gains from overclocking a 4870's memory, it is due to decreased latency as mentioned above, not increased throughput. On top of this, I doubt they would release the new "cypress" architecture using specified memory modules that create a bandwidth issue that impacts the chips potential performance. Especially since rumored 6 and 7ghz GDDR5 have existed since Feb. 09, they are only using 5-5.5ghz. That would be kinda hair-brained, so the the chip must only be starved for bandwidth when it's being fed at < 150gb/sec. The Oc'd 4850 showing 95% success rate of the rv770's full 800 SP @ 64gb/sec is proof of this theory.

From gurusan (he concludes 7%): http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/7107/36267797qz2.png

Anybody has any idea as to the amount of Amps the 5870 would need on the 12V rail ???

TIA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hurleybird

What good performance gains?

...
For all we know RV870 could use tile rendering!

---

Forgive me I'm no expert, but is this the same as Scissor frame rendering of 8*8 & 32*32 sections? Because if it is, that is what the rv870 uses internally according to the Chiphell forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by has33

Anybody has any idea as to the amount of Amps the 5870 would need on the 12V rail ???

TIA

---

By itself? Less than 18a.
For a normal system, 38-40a PSU.

Normal being, i7 920 @ 4.2GHz with 6x2GB DDR3, abt 5TB HDD n 8 x 120mm; 2 x 140mm LED fans; 6xUV lights .. along the 5870 on a Corsair VX550W ???

Its got 41A on the 12V rail (single)

Runs fine on the 4890, ATM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by has33

Normal being, i7 920 @ 4.2GHz with 6x2GB DDR3, abt 5TB HDD n 8 x 120mm; 2 x 140mm LED fans; 6xUV lights .. along the 5870 on a Corsair VX550W ???

Its got 41A on the 12V rail (single)

Runs fine on the 4890, ATM.

---

Not sure why you would use that kind of PSU on a rig like that :confused:

Go with a 750-950 if you want to not have to worry about it for a few years ( Unless you plan on running more than 2 cards )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheBlueChanell

If the 1600sp, 80 TMU and 20 ROP?? rumour is true I seriously believe that it will be at least 10-20% faster than a 4870x2 and probably even more. This is a single chip card thus you aren't going to have scaling issues or any of the caveats that come along with any multi-chip solution.

It would be as if the 4870x2 had 100% perfect scaling plus some additional horse power.

---

scaling isn't linear with increases in transitor count either... remember the release of the gt200? 240sp's vs the 9800gx2 with 128x2 sp's, and performance was on par! only in a few circumstances (games that simply DON'T support sli) is the gx2 slower. there are even circumstances where scaling is over 100% with two gpu cores (certian games with a 4870x2). i feel that there are just too many variables to start proclaiming "XXXX WILL BE THE PERFORMANCE OF XXXX CARD!"

anyone else excited about tomorrow? ;)

9800gx2 128SPX2 Core Clock 600 MHz Shader Clock:1500
GTX280 240SP Core Clock 600 Mhz Shader Clock:1300

4870X2 800SPX2 Core Clock 750 Mhz
5870 1600SP Core Clock 850 Mhz

5870 should beat 4870X2 without doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vit^pr0n

Not sure why you would use that kind of PSU on a rig like that :confused:

Go with a 750-950 if you want to not have to worry about it for a few years ( Unless you plan on running more than 2 cards )

---

Actually, I use a Tagan BZ 800W .. was thinking of selling it off, if the VX550W was capable of handling the 5870.

Have a buyer for my 4890 and the BZ800W :rolleyes:

I think a nice 550watt corsair would handle a single 5870 just fine, even with overclocking on the cpu, gpu, ram and all your peripherals. I wouldn't count on getting a second card for xfire though.

Quote:

---

PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard
500 Watt or greater power supply with two 75W 6-pin PCI Express® power connectors recommended (600 Watt and four 6-pin Connectors for ATI CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode)
Certified power supplies are recommended
Minimum 1GB of system memory
Installation software requires CD-ROM drive
DVD playback requires DVD drive
Blu-ray™ playback requires Blu-ray drive
For an ATI CrossFireX™ system, a second ATI Radeon™ HD 5870 graphics card, an ATI CrossFireX Ready motherboard and one ATI CrossFireX Bridge Interconnect cable per graphics card (not included) are required

---

http://vr-zone.com/articles/suggeste....html?doc=7470

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mindfury

9800gx2 128SPX2 Core Clock 600 MHz Shader Clock:1500
GTX280 240SP Core Clock 600 Mhz Shader Clock:1300

4870X2 800SPX2 Core Clock 750 Mhz
5870 1600SP Core Clock 850 Mhz

5870 should beat 4870X2 without doubt.

---

Not so fast. Keep in mind, the 4870 had the SPs and TMUs increased by 2.5x over the 3870, and it isn't even twice as fast the great majority of the time. 4870 to 5870 is only a 2.0x increase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaredpace

I think a nice 550watt corsair would handle a single 5870 just fine, even with overclocking on the cpu, gpu, ram and all your peripherals. I wouldn't count on getting a second card for xfire though.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/suggeste....html?doc=7470

---

I have no doubt you could easily run a single 5870 on a 300W PSU. No way it would draw anywhere near that from the wall.

I run this rig:

Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.72ghz HT on | GTX 280 1GB | Bookshelf Spkrs.| Crucial 256GB Indilinx Controller/Samsung NAND SSD| 6GB DDR3 1600 @ 1560 8-8-8 1T | X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI | Asus P6T vanilla X58 | Dell 3007WFP-HC 30" S-IPS LCD @ 2560x1600 | CoolerMaster RC690 Chasis | MX518 Mouse | 6x 120mm fans | + 2 normal HDD's

... 100% rock-solid on my Corsair HX 520w PSU. So, I've little doubt that your 550 VX series would run a 5870 fine unless they have absolute madness for their power requirements. I'll be using this PSU myself for my single 5870, though if I go Crossfire I have a spare 750w high-quality PSU on the shelf that I never put into a rig.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 003

Not so fast. Keep in mind, the 4870 had the SPs and TMUs increased by 2.5x over the 3870, and it isn't even twice as fast the great majority of the time.

---

-3870 (and X2) had a higher clock rate than the 4870, so the difference in power was closer to 2.1x than 2.5x.

-4870 was almost always faster than the 3870X2, especially with AA

-There can be other bottle necks besides vid card limiting scaling, masking speed increase.

-Even though they were strengthened in some areas, RV770 shaders were weakened in many ways from RV670 shaders to make them smaller. Overall a good tradeoff.

-There is the occasional freak coincidence where AFR results in over 100% gain, but most of the time doubling resources will yield better results.

-Perfect scaling is very rare in any situation.

well good to see something getting leaked.

i just wish they would hurry up and come out!! although Im going to wait until they have something other than stok reference coolers.

Thanks guys :up: now I can get rid of my old stuff and get the 5870, ASA its available.

Later, I'll get more of em .. maybe 3 .. even 4, if I can get the classified. And CM will be sending me the UCP 1100W for then :D

22nd of September is the launch dates for the cards, expect stock to be easily available in early October.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by largon

Dunno about you but I pay for performance when buying video cards, i'm not paying for technical details

---

well said

everywhere i see info and leaks on the internet , and now this thread seems dead . haha

launch on 23rd of September , I hoped for earlier since my girlfriend is leaving to hong kong soon .. :)

The only computer company immune to the whims of the industry, consumers, recession etc is INTEL.
Whether you are buying a Notebook, HTPC, Netbook, Desktop, Server, Workstation
If your OS choice is Mac, Windows, or Linux.

GRIM REALITY
There's a 80-90% chance it will be INtel system. 90% of which use Intel chipset. And at least half of desktops and notebooks with integrated Intel graphics (which FYI holds MUCH more graphics marketshare than either AMD or nVidia).

TOUGH CHALLENGES
So the challenge for nVidia and AMD (especially since first with DX11 and trying to sell Phenoms):
- powerfull marketing to turn consumers off integrated. nVidia's "balanced PC" is too little too late.
- back 5 years ago, it was easy to point out lack of video acceleration, shaders and game compatiblity... but IGP is catching up.
- convince existing HD4870/GTX275 owners their shiny almost new DX10 hardware is crapola.
- have enough new features (btw I find DX11 Tessellation and Compute Shaders to be just a rehash of same old...)
- new must have DX11 games... where are they?

AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL... netbooks
Finally, most (non-super elite lv60 wizzard with Ferrari in driveway) consumers have limited budgets. Consumers are going to be tempted to spend money on CPU/mobo (ie Lynnfield, 32nm Westmere etc), 42" HDTV, an Intel SSD flash drive... or best of all, the exploding thin notebook and/or netbook segment, where there is no market whatsoever for HD5850 or any add in graphics card at all. Also recall, only Intel makes wide range of mobile CPUs and is the defacto choice.

Once again all your bases belong to Intel.
Bottom line.. I dont think HD5850/HD5870 will have as good sales as HD4xx series... at least as long as gloom of recession is around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

Once again all your bases belong to Intel.
Bottom line.. I dont think HD5850/HD5870 will have as good sales as HD4xx series... at least as long as gloom of recession is around.

---

the 5800 series changes how games can be played.
if it was just faster, no but with the eyefinity, yea, it be a success.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flopper

the 5800 series changes how games can be played.
if it was just faster, no but with the eyefinity, yea, it be a success.

---

How many people actually run multimonitor. In a work space yes, but to actually have a significant impact on gaming and people wanting to buy it for this feature. No way.

How many people have two monitors at their main computer? How many people have 3 monitors(which is when eyefinity begins to shows it worth)? I can imagine less than 10,000. Especially if you consider the gaming crowd. Eyefiniti is a gimmick for lottery winners who actually have time to game rather than just work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tajoh111

How many people actually run multimonitor. In a work space yes, but to actually have a significant impact on gaming and people wanting to buy it for this feature. No way.

How many people have two monitors at their main computer? How many people have 3 monitors(which is when eyefinity begins to shows it worth)? I can imagine less than 10,000. Especially if you consider the gaming crowd. Eyefiniti is a gimmick for lottery winners who actually have time to game rather than just work.

---

That's all true, but perhaps with this new feature more people will get multiple monitors. I won't... But some might! :p:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

[...]an Intel SSD flash drive...[...]

---

Lol, I was pretty much with you until there. The average joe doesn't even know what an SSD is, much less want to buy one in this economy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sly Fox

That's all true, but perhaps with this new feature more people will get multiple monitors. I won't... But some might! :p:

---

If it works as well as they say it does, I could see myself going to a 3 monitor setup. Imagine finally playing games while having peripheral vision. It's the difference between viewing the world normally vs viewing though goggles, or driving a car normally vs driving only seeing through the front windshield. To me the difference could be huge.

Quote:

---

Once again all your bases belong to Intel.

---

That is the problem.
Good thing we still have a choice. And I'm grabbing to that choice.
I don't need the fastest CPU possible. I don't do hardly any encoding. I don't care whether Photoshop filter takes 5, 7.5 or 10 seconds. I know performance of a desktop computer can easily be increased via eliminating real bottlenecks, such as taking out the HDD or bumping GPU performance. For me CPU is dead. And Via Nano is the way to go for netbooks, and hell, it's better than Atom anyways...

/offtopic