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I have a solution.. a belt sander...
just belt sand the IHS off when the glue it on.. sand that indium right off that bad boy.. go up to 600 grit when u hit the indium. 1000 when u get a bit closer that it might nick the core, and then finish off the core with a nice 2000grit lap job, and possibly the slurry polishing on glass.
My "worthless" motherboard sensor sure as hell showed much better temps when I removed my IHS when comparing apogee vs. storm.
that doesnt mean its not worthless..
being a regular at procooling you should know that it IS indeed worthless.
Doesn't mean it can't give you a reasonable estimate.
Law of greater numbers holds true... even when dealing with junk on-board sensors.
... oh, and for your "pro-cooling" statement... pretty odd to see a mod of one forum pimping another. There is a reason I post here more than there.
He was hardly pimping another forums, he was just saying how you were a regular there.
As axion pointed out, i was not "pimping" other forums, merely pointing out that you go to procooling and if you would have ever stated that you used onboard sensors for some kind of testing they would have ripped you a knew one and possibly banned you if you tried to defend ur onboard sensors.
Reasonable is a relative term and its on a case per case basis. Its a bit of luck if your board has a better calibrated sensor than someone elses, and IF your board is reporting more realistic temps and responding to changes in a realistic fashion, well you just got lucky. But determining if you got lucky is pretty damn hard as you need a basis for comparison.Quote:
Doesn't mean it can't give you a reasonable estimate.
Also some people think that the sensors are just off by a set amount, say 5c. While the sensor may be off by 5C at ur current temp, change your cooler and the delta will change. This is called non-linearity. A good, quantifiable example, is the voltages smartgaurdian outputs. on my cpu it was reading .07 volts low at a certain voltage and when i adjust the voltage by about 0.1V, the change from actual voltage was .09... Pretty horrific if u ask me. I tried this again and found the range of it being off to be somewhere between .06-.09.
Understood.
And we are not in disagreement about the validity of most on-board sensors. I have had boards in the past that were utterly worthless in that regard. However, to just put a blanket statement saying that ALL on-board sensors are "worthless" is pretty strong.
This board, (sli-dr) as well as several of my past boards, show realistic and quite repeatable results. Are they accurate compared to a fluke tester? no. Are they accurate compared to any other boards? probably not. But they are accurate enough to judge on my OWN system, differences in cooling ability after changes in the loop have been made.
Same can be said about canned benchmarks. Realistic - only when comparing modifications to your own system... but not when comparing system to system.
>> appologies for over-reacting in regard to the pro-cooling statement. I post here, and not much there because I appreciate forums without the senseless arguments. ... and here, mods actually expect people to post on topic.
bla bla bla, any test with storm and ihs off?
yeap.......to much bullshyte in this thread and absolutely no numbers :fact: .......funny thing is everyone's already made their mind up. This is hilarious.Quote:
Originally Posted by 187(V)URD@
I've been following this thread since it started and I have never trusted the temp sensors either and now I can see why, great info.
But how then is anyone to get any type of acurate readings?
I posted my results a while ago, not that they can be used for any useful comparision... but I'll put them up again here:
Loop:
dual bayres > D5 > D5 > Storm > Maze 4 > EK NF4 > PA120.3
Pump #1: setting 5
Pump #2: setting 5
CPU Idle: 26c
CPU Load: 38c
Ambient: 20.4c
CPU = X2 4400 @ 2700mhz - 1.65vcore
As I say, not very useful as I have other blocks in the loop, and such.
are you not the guy who got apogee and storm? Maybe you can test with ihs off? (maybe with a cheap a64 3000+ seriously oc'ed +~ 1.65V)Quote:
Originally Posted by orkan
to get good readings from a live cpu?
there is a way.. attach your own sensing equipment to the cpu diode, calibrate and make a correction graph for the non-linearity of the cpu's diode.
I tried this with some succes (although the diode on my cpu magically died during calibration) and pH over at procooling has done this with a AXP cpu and has done the same with an A64. he is still finalizing his testing strategy for A64, hence the lack of data from procooling.
Orkan can you check your actual cpu voltage for me. here is a pic of where to measure with ur DMM.
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9899/vcorepoint3nw.png
1.67vQuote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
... and THANKS!!!... I always wanted to know where to do that on this board! Makes me happy that everest and CPU-Z are only reporting .02v off.
Yes thats me... and I am planning to do so in the near future. I have a Dtek WW that I want to compare to the storm also.Quote:
are you not the guy who got apogee and storm? Maybe you can test with ihs off? (maybe with a cheap a64 3000+ seriously oc'ed +~ 1.65V)
hmmm so how can you draw conclusions from this data........what does it tell you exactly that makes your case for Apogee=suxQuote:
Originally Posted by orkan
i would really like to see Cathar test these.......i know people can trust his findings....maybe you should test them cathar since you say it's one sided at the moment
also guys the "condom" idea is unfortunate i know but that's what majority of CPUs are like now (few IHS-less but people mainly keep IHS on as far as i've seen)......so it is important to have both with IHS and without in testing IMO
as eva2000 says a few posts ago..............push the CPU to the limit on each block..........whatever max MHz you get at whatever vcore and other settings..........and see which comes out on top......that's what separates boys from men in WBs :cool:
orkan your lucky its so close. as i mentioned before mine is off by .06-.09.. pretty bad if u ask me.
Dino... obviously you dont read well. Let me outline a couple things for you from my post:
and...Quote:
not that they can be used for any useful comparision
I'm not here to make any case. I have tested both blocks on my own... and the OBVIOUS victor is in my system right now. Beyond that, I could really care less about the useless banter that has become of the apogee vs everything threads.Quote:
As I say, not very useful as I have other blocks in the loop, and such.
http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_apogee-11.html (test with DIE)
so why post it if it's uselessQuote:
Originally Posted by orkan
Measure the temp of the water, the ambient air, and air exhaust of the radiator. That will give overall view of how well the system is cooling. As for measuring the temp of the cpu, there's some modifications [of which Maxxx mentioned] out there where you attach an external probe to a couple of pins on the CPU, calibrate, and then record the readings over time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleclaw
If anyone is really interested in getting the real cpu temps I have the hardware to do so that I no longer need.
PM me for more info if interested.
apogee vs storm.
http://www.ocia.net/reviews/apogee/page2.shtml
safan, thats been posted 10x over and that article cannot be callled a review.. its a joke.
I didn't know it had been posted.. my bad it does seem like a joke with all the temps being equal and the testing method. oh did I forget it was sponsored by swiftech. I figured it would give someone a laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer