so is intel fault to send a btx standar hsf to review sites and some retail...
so is not their fault maybe they should change both hsf to xp90 or something similar to see how it perfoms...
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so is intel fault to send a btx standar hsf to review sites and some retail...
so is not their fault maybe they should change both hsf to xp90 or something similar to see how it perfoms...
yes yes, that would solve problems on the Intel side. I seem to be able to run flawlessly for weeks with a 500Mhz OC over stock on air.
Right now, the DFI 925XE lives in that case and the original mobo is the XS forum server.
so we can say @ thg they dont know how to make a stress test maybe you should call them and say you can help them xD
winrar lame and dvix are HT optimized?
FUGGER vs. Thomas Pabst! FIGHT :bananal: :lsfight:
that stress test's results "so far" are scary though... :shocked:
Fugger, you realize the Artic 64 Freezer uses the same type of fan, without a shroud, and works fine... Right?
Plus, they're running them open case, the point of the shroud is to pull air directly from the outside! In the reviews of the PD 840EE, they used the reference system sent to them by intel, and had idle temps of 60C! That's correct, a reference system, just like what you're talking about...
I can see how the shroud might help a bit, but with the system being open case, it's pulling in fresh air anyway and thus negating the need for the shroud... Of course, I may be wrong, and you're the intel developer(which if you are, may I strongly advise you quit before Quad core makes it's appearance and intel again slap 2 chips together and call it quad), however I can point you to countless fans that use the same basic style as the intel stock does, and none of them require a "shroud".
Also, since when does a processor REQUIRE a specific case to run?... If it does, then that's ANOTHER victory added for AMD!
for best temps with that kind of system di tech you need a wind tunnel as fugger showed before and that helps a lot to keep the cpu cool....
ROFLMAO !!Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
But seriously, Intel now being the technology and performance underdog, i won't expect them to be this poor 12 months from now.
AMD will have run for it's money, altough AMD also can keep it's lead
We will see more in Q4 2005 to Q2 2006.
IDF 2006: "we now have quad core x86, it comes with a 12 month supply of dry ice and a fire extinquisher" :D
The case design is to move air thru the case and with the side off that is not happening. I know how easy it is for an AMD fanboy to argue this till the end of time and THG leaves us all with a bad taste in our mouths with the most idiotic stress test we have seen to date. I will laugh when THG comes up with any conclusion to the smoking pile they have been cultivating over the past few days.
FYI, My money is on Yonah/Napa to whooping AMD ass all over the place. I will ask permission to post socket 480 w/ dual cpu and dual core.
Eh, you're the developer...not me.
Also, I'm not an amd fanboy for the record, my old system...and everyone before that, was an intel besides a AXP2100+(which I replaced not even 2 months after building it with a 2.6C). I'm not pro-anybody.. I'm pro-performance.
Either way, intel needs to get off their high horse, realize they're not king anymore, and do something major... Or atleast send the intel mafia over to stomp the THG guys in the ground... That alone would be enough for me to build another Intel system tommorrow!
It's not fanboyism if we laugh at THG frying Intel, or if we laugh at Intel heat production.
If it were AMD i would feel sorry becouse it's smaller company, and also becouse we need competition.
When Intel had problem with Pentium making calculation errors, their decision was to release it anyway, it is called "engineers decision".
Error wasn't that bad, but from marketing point of view it was disaster.
Did they learn from it ?
They sure did !
This time it seems that marketing made the decision about cooling solutions, "We can't demand people to place buckets in their computers, it makes us look bad".
End result is too hot running systems that keep on crashing.
So it is Intel making big mistakes again. They shouldn't have released dual cores, it's just a PR release, "we were first" (yeah, go and buy one).
I think we all can, and should, agree that the heatsink used in the test is NOT the heatsink Intel meant users to combine with their dualcore processors. This chip apparantly requires BTX to run properly, and I guess Intel should advertise that more and demand that their resellers inform about this on the spec-sheet at the retailers webpages. 99% uf all users buying this chip will not own BTX cases and will run into some serious problems. Too bad. Yonah seems extremly promising though and I can't wait to buy one. But even those who prefer Intel have to agree that if you ARE going to spend 1000$ on a processor, the Athlon X2 IS a better choise. Which processor is best for budget systems will of course depend on money and where and how its gonna be used. But if you MUST spend 1000$ on a CPU, I can't see ONE reason why the Intel one should be recommended.
Noldor, well said. And i bought nothing Intel before the pc thats in my sig since i do believe there were the better choice at that time. For the same reason, i havent bought one since the p4c were phased out.
*patiently awaits for his Yonah pc*
The Intel is superior when more than two threads are used. It is superior at encoding and multimedia streaming.
It is a superior product when selling to big business and is accepted into military, government and educational sales. This is where AMD is rejected the most.
People who demand higher quality machines buy Intel
Professionals who need un comprimised stability buy Intel.
AMD is fine for the gamer and casaul home user who can overlook minor stability issues and willing to beat head against the wall over NF3/NF4 reboot issue for hours to eventually give up to only see the Windows splash screen.
The members of this site has killed hundreds of FX processors over the past few months. Some members killing upwards of a dozen. Weather it was too much vcore or too much vdimm they are still deaded.
You would be digging deep to find one dead P4 and near impossible to find two dead ones by the same person. Give it a rest about AMD being superior. Its all in you feeling you have ownage with your AMD cpu. :party3:
yonah looks primising i wont deny that but i want to see what is under the sleeve of amd if you see the pentium M architecture run at lower clocks and very expensive but their ipc is pretty damn high like the amd athlon 64 cpus when they oc they can match a fx55 at stock they still lag behind now this is just now in the future things can change i used all my life intel cpu except for now and i think amd is far better than intel right now
Hehehe, alright alright :) When i jump in the military scene i'll be sure to get myself a Intel processor, i promise. But honestly, for _ME_ AMD _is_ superior, but things may change, soon mabye. Yonah looks promising like i said. But as long as it isn't out my Venice runs 24/7 stable at 2800mhz and doing all things I want it to do without any issues at all, and it's noiseless with my quiet watercooling. Perhaps an Intel might be faster in some apps, mabye even some apps I run, but I'm too scared, perhaps my computer will melt, and wouldn't it be a pitty to stop being an AMD fan boy ;) j/k
BTW
"It is a superior product when selling to big business and is accepted into military, government and educational sales. This is where AMD is rejected the most."
Doesn't this have more to do with AMD being unable to ship large enough quantities rather then lacking stability?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
FUD As shown here 12 crashes over 170 hours for Intel boxes vs. zero for AMD.
I work for the largest defense contrator in the USA we use AMD 64 linux clusters for our modeling. Used to use intel until we found AMD 64 was 3x as fast as comparable Intels we tested. Oh and get this, we use via chipsets too OMG. :rolleyes:
As far as killing processors. Intel can't handle volts. Everyones heard of NSDS (northwood sudden death syndrome), I fried mine with a measly 1.75 volts while athlon XP's could handle 2.2 volts all day long.
The majority of people buy intel because it was the standard for 25 years. Has about 1000X more money to advertise and advertising/public relations is everythng in any business. See you're buying it.
Anyway keep beliveing what you want to believe. you don't have any proof because you can't have any but anecdotal opinions with a heavy bias anyone passing can see.
Those were all FUD too back in the day too. Before Toms sold his site for 30milllion and the site still had value here's what he said:
http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboar...kt133a-16.html
"The most important finding was the enjoyable fact that each of the tested boards ran 100% stable even at the fastest possible memory timing settings. VIA's upcoming DDR chipsets may not look too impressive right now, but the Apollo KT133A is a matured, fast and solid product that offers good performance."
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q...athlon-02.html
"AMD Processors are significantly less expensive than Intel processors although they are at least on par in terms of performance. - FACT"
"AMD processors are incompatible. - LIE
Not that the average guy who just heard that phrase would know what the heck 'incompatible' is, but it sounds really bad, doesn't it? Well, even the people who do know that 'incompatible' means that a product wouldn't work reliably with other components (which of course is bad) are wrong if they accuse AMD's Athlon or Duron processors of it. In our labs we are testing all kinds of Athlon platforms with all kinds of different components and I can definitely say that I cannot see any difference between the compatibility of AMD products and platforms compared to the same from Intel."
"Chipsets for AMD processors are inferior to Intel chipsets. - LIE
Yeah, sure, the earth is flat and politicians are honest ... I am still amused when I see people posting the above message in news groups or as their response to articles. How many more times does Intel need to screw up their chipsets (i820, MTH, ...) until you guys get the message? . . . Incompatibilities are more a problem of the motherboard BIOS than of the chipset right now. Thus both chipset makers, Intel as well as VIA, are actually in the same situation."
:::sigh:::Tom::: I guess some things will never change, four years later still hearing the same ole' BS
How about ANAND? You know the guy who reviews hardware professionally seeing thousands of products a year and probably has a 40 million dollar site himself due to the trust he's built. The guys been using AMD servers for four years now, because thier unreliable?? IMO There is actually no more effective endorsement of the stability and reliability of AMD platforms than the fact that AnandTech uses them as the sole platform for the web serving of its main site and forums.
Well, this debate could go on for years and years. Toms test hold no real relevance to this and I'm sure Intel's processor is just as stable as the AMD one when used like it's intended to be used, with the BTX case/fan.
Many of us have been running AMD for years without problem. FUGGER has ran Intel without problems. So which is best? I game mostly and do some "internetting", the choise is obvious. However, should I go into some serious encoding i'd look into an Intel rig. And to be honest, 100 or 110 FPS in a game, or 5 CD's in an hour instead of 6 CD's. LOL wth are we arguing about anyway? As long as the processor is fun to overclock we should all be happy. We can use intel for PI and AMD for 3D. YAY!, fun for everyone.
Dear god just go play doom 3 enjoy your friken pc and open the shades to see there are more important things outside than what a community may think of the processor you use in your pc. Youre both defending intel/amd like the faith of the goddamn third world depended on it.
I ve got news for you, theyre both faceless companies that couldnt care less about what people on xs think.
I think this site should be about personnel achievement on one's own hardware and not a flame fest on how somebody else's pc suck.
This should not become "Last fanboy standing" thread, but im going to say something anyway..
Intel has the marketing, it has the money to market and affect peoples opinions.
People - especially in the US - thinks that Intel is same as CPU, that there is no options.
Or if they know that there are options, they believe that Intel is better.
That what Intel has. It has no better stability, it has no better performance, it has no better value for the money.
Companies like IBM, HP, Supermicro, Sun, Cray, etc, do NOT build unrelieable systems, yet they use AMD cpu's.
I almost forgot what Intel has too, it has DELL, and DELL has Intel by the balls. :)
I have a suggestion: Lets leave this AMD vs Intel thing, lets just laugh at THG frying CPU's, and to what funny explanations they have this time. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldor
No we don't play games or rip CDs we got them for 3x the FPU performance of any intel chip (other than unreleased memron which will be sweet like AMD 64) Here's an example at work of AMD's killer FPU.
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436&p=5
This gets exponential in a Rocks cluster...!!!
Nations uniting under our common hatred of THG, i like it
Zebo. Be happy that you're now running AMD cpus instead of Intel. I do the same. But I don't see the reason to start a huge debate over this. We're not discussing what is best for large businesses or the military, i know fugger brought it up, but that was a reply to my post which already was off topic. Now lets get back to discussing toms review. We all know that intel vs amd is an useless debate, everyone has their own needs and requirements and oppinions of what is best. Let em have that. I like AMD best ATM, fugger likes intel.
I have no problem with anyone buying whatever, it's thier money after all. Just don't like guessing or unsubstantiated ripping on another product. IMO thats someone with an agenda. Either they need self affirmation they made the right choice or they are making money off it..I dunno but it's uncool as far as I'm concerned.
There's plenty of bad to talk about AMD and Intel without FUD. AMD's support is terrible. AMD does'nt have HT which kills it in multithreads. Intel's hot uses and uses lots of power relative. etc etc etc...
oH and I use AMD and Intel.. Still have all my intel boxes from the 90's I am a fan of all computers.:)
I found a funny screenshot from THG forums.
THG Stress test analysis. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber
All I know is toms is getting rich off these page hits. ;) Maybe this is on purpose..the controversy I mean. I can gurantee you I could build a AMD and Intel system 247 stable.. Would'nt sell though. :p: