yet another review to discredit
http://www.ocia.net/reviews/apogee/page5.shtml
http://www.ocia.net/reviews/apogee/Results.jpg
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yet another review to discredit
http://www.ocia.net/reviews/apogee/page5.shtml
http://www.ocia.net/reviews/apogee/Results.jpg
@ gabe
Is warranty void on Apogee if a user removes the top to inspect/clean copper shavings that may be in the block....?
dinos22
well, i swapped my Apogee for a Storm today. The temps arent any different, but the quality of the thing was beautiful. Ill give the AS5 a few days to cook. Regardless im happy to have it before they get even more difficult to find.
Same could be said for cars. The watercooling is a pain in the Allerwertesten and a source of a huge percentage of breakdowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody_Sorcerer
But it is more effective, cheaper and allows for smaller engine compartments than air cooling.
The question for CPU cooling will be decided not based on what the processors do, but on what people demands for small and quiet and cheap are. If you need to cram a full PC info the space of 3 DVD boxes then fluid cooling might be the only way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
LOL! I trust that review about as far as I can throw it with my arms tied behind my back. I did enjoy the closeup pics of the Apogee though. Got to be the worst looking block insides ever. Truly surprised it doesn't leak water between base and delrin top...
We can't (shouldn't) overlook the performance numbers, and on IHS-bearing CPUs the Apogee appears to at least approach the Storm. But I still haven't seen the theory behind going back to a diamond-pin block, or how this block is substantially different from the 5000 series. Has anyone tested one of those old buggers against the newer generation on modern CPUs?
that would be an interesting comparison actuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by aMp
I got news for ya, the Maze 3 performs within 1C of the Storm and Apogee with an IHS'd AMD.
Almost every waterblock performs "within 1C", on any IHS capped CPU, AMD or Intel, according to reported-to-mobo temps.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
Why buy water-cooling at all? Stick with the Big Typhoons and a single large quiet fan, and be happy?
what about OCs
are you getting the same OCs as well.......with Maze3
if so what is the advantage of having Storm (honestly.....i'm not being a smartass)
personally i'm skipping the whole water thing. It was great and all but I'm now getting a custom phase cooler in a few weeks....so yeah i'll definately get more out of my CPU that way......folding with dual core Opteron past 3GHz :slobber: (fingers crossed now coldbugs)
scott, you refering to Lee's testing, or just jesting?
Why did FrozenCPU advertise the Apogee as being the "Storm Killer" before any tests had been performed? I don't understand why a company would want to "out" one of their Top of the Line products with a cheap budget product...
-k0nsl
Cathar,Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
I sense by your posts that you have become increasingly discouraged as of late.
There is no need. :) Your work has been, and will be greatly appreciated by those of us that can tell the difference between marketing... and fact.
absolutely. And is why i sold the Apogee and am now a proud Storm owner. Even if im limited by my IHS i like the fact that this block cuts no corners and is a solid piece of work.
Seconded. Those have always been the only people to buy your blocks anyhow. Well, atleast before the Swiftech Storm that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by orkan
Hey Gabe.
How about an honest upfront answer regarding the thin structure of the wall right at the counter sunk point on the Apogee. You keep professing that "the truth will become known" so how about some truth regarding this. Fact is it's bloody thin and looks like it has piss weak integrity at that stress point. Yeah we have heard how you bashed it with a hammer in your tests, but so what. It would need a redesign before I and many others would have faith in it's structual strength .
I admit I like the idea of it's high flow dynamics in a loop with added gpu blocks but as it stands atm I wouldn't want it hovering over 2 of my 512mb cards.
Front up, are you going to rectify the design flaw or just use pr bs as the scape goat and hope for the best.......but remember "the truth will become know" and in it's current manifistation most "in the know" people are all seeing an obvious design flaw.
It's your company and your reputation on the line, just depends on how much emphasis you place in these areas. :rolleyes:
Nah, it's more of a pointed cynical remark on the path along which CPU manufacturer's are leading us all down. All this is being driven from the pointy end of the supply chain. Some embrace it out of necessity. Some lament it. As an enthusiast, I lament the existence of the heat condom. Will be a sad day for overclocking enthusiasts indeed when all CPU's come with IHS's that cannot be removed, and we're all left at the mercy of IHS variations. It will make finding a good CPU that much harder. No longer will just having good silicon be enough to identify a good clocking CPU, it'll have to have a perfectly mated flat IHS as well.... :wth:Quote:
Originally Posted by orkan
I'm guessing that they know they'll no longer be able to get the Storm. The few they have left willl be snatched up by people who have their IHS removed. So they just hype up the product that will be around for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by k0nsl
I got the Apogee for $40 free shipping and plan to try it out on a quiet gaming rig. Looks as though I should get decent bang/buck on it.
When you compare Storm and Apogee, you should do it with different pump performance. Since the Storm block is designed to resist the flow more, but to turn sufficieint pressure into better performance you can just pick one pump setting.
exactly. as cathar said above, one day all CPUs will have "heat condoms" (nice metaphor haha) soldered onto the die. the IHS will soon be an irremovable piece. sure you can always lap the IHS but there's only so much that lapping can do. testing the Apogee vs Storm on an IHS capped CPU is very relevant considering what we face in the near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by aMp
but if you look at that data (as much as you can trust it...) the Storm and Apogee are very close, which coincides with data from Lee's testing. considering the fact that the Apogee spreads pressure quite evenly and the Storm applies pressure in a concentrated area on the die, this makes the Storm look really good. Even when capped with an IHS the Storm is still neck and neck with the Apogee, IHS included. in Lee's testing the Storm performed better than the Apogee by a noticeable but small margin. you can't deny that the Storm is the better performer with or without IHS.
i've always respected Cathar's designs and it's doubtless that the Storm will outperform the competition for the foreseeable future.
The apogee and storm are NOT very close. Not in terms of waterblock performance.
The only reason that testing is showing them close is because of the IHS numbing effect. A Spiral and a Storm are "close" in that regard.
Let us not confuse temps on IHS cpu's as a measurement of WB performance.
Is it really worth looking at mobo reported temps at all? We can all tell they are pretty much worthless by looking at the die sim tests as those are direct measurement of temperature from within the heat source which shows the storm and basically any other modern block whomping the apogee. I think everyone should just yell at swiftech to bring the storm back.
you've missed my point entirely. you are saying that IHS capped CPU performance is invalid because of the numbing affect. what i am saying is that the IHS numbing will be inavoidable in the near future because Intel and (possibly) AMD will be making it impossible to remove the IHS without damaging the core. IHS performance is VERY valid considering what is to come in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by orkan
i know it sucks but there's nothing you can do.
I understand your point just fine.
I don't believe you are seeing mine. When you are talking about 1-2c or less in difference between the BEST wb, and an OLD wb like a maze3... it truely does not MATTER. Period. The IHS completely and totally levels the playing field for all waterblocks created in the last 3 years. So, IHS performance DOES NOT MATTER. As you will unlikely be able to see any benefit of going with one vs. another from an overclocking standpoint.
Block selection becomes completely based upon looks/functionality. Performance truely does not matter.
These posts really make me understand what Cathar has been talking about for the last 6 months or so.
So, cpu manufacturers are all going with soldered IHS, or some un-modifiable version thereof. We knew this was probably un-avoidable. At that point, enhancements in WB design will be shoved aside for what can be marketed and sold for a profit.
Enter Apogee.
But doesn't that just show that measuring the temp with an inaccurate CPU temp-sensor is worthless? I think the WB design make a substantial difference if one were to measure the water temperature or even examine maximum overclocks of the CPU.