Aquastealth? You should know it's name if you had to look everywhere... :p:
Anyway, I think that the MCP655 is more silent, but still a worse performer than the AquaXtreme 50Z: heat dump still too high.
Printable View
Aquastealth? You should know it's name if you had to look everywhere... :p:
Anyway, I think that the MCP655 is more silent, but still a worse performer than the AquaXtreme 50Z: heat dump still too high.
I found this place that sells meanwells for cheaper. Havent ordered from them yet as im looking for one as well,so i dont know how reputable they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
http://www.power-factor-1st.com/
I just got myself 2 brand new Iwake MD-10 and should receive em in a few days :banana:
LOL ok noob question here so be prepared fellas.
Ok im cheap and i see on SVC a whole kit from thermaltake called bigwater for bout 120 bux, i have never even read about this kinda watercooling stuff until i read this whole dam thing here, I would love to get one of these big dawg pumps that u guys are running and all but i would have to say 120 bux for everything sounds kinda expensive to me* and thats a whole kit).
Is the performance difference that much bigger for what you guys recomend here? compared to like a 300 dollar price tag all the peices it would cost to build a system using these parts?
Is there something you guys could ecomend that would be better than bigwater for around same price or less? (i know im askin alot) but I wanna Take the a64 setup to the next lvl seriously and have no dam idea what i would have to buy as far as WC'ing goes.
EDIT: Oh and btw i would like something small and preferable decent volts that can run inside my Case all buttoned up running on a fortron 530 psyu also, inside thermaltake tsunami case.
Thermaltake cooling = cheap & awful
The parts we reccomend are pretty much top performance, and hence they can run as much as $500...which I feel is overkill, but many of the regulars here, such as myself, can reccomend a loop for around $250 or less that will drastically outperform any aircooling or cheap watercooling kit out there.
i am considering iwaki 20 but the heat dump is holding me back. i can get the same 14ft of head out of a 12v pump with half the heat dump, but the iwaki has 4x the flow.
HOWEVER, the faster water flows through the radiator the less time the radiator has to actually radiate the heat out of it.
has anyone run a back to back temp comparison in the same system with iwaki and good 12v? dual core radiator. its possible that a lower/slower flowing system will run cooler.
You cannot get 14ft of head with 20watt or lower heat dump anywhere else except the Laing DDC, and that has something like 1/10th the flow.
Wrong, wrong wrong. Unlearn that notion now, it is just plain wrong. The faster the flow, the better the cooling, period. Heat dump is a SEPERATE issue altogether, but if we had a magical pump that could pump 1GPM to 100GPM with the same heat dump, 100GPM will always win over ANYTHING less. There is NEVER A TIME when there is no water in the rad no matter how fast the water is moving.Quote:
Originally Posted by euclid
Hmm, maybe a car travelling on an oval track at 50MPH would win a race against a car travelling 100MPH on the same track?
:toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
i guess thats that, iwaki it is :slapass:
thanks for the fast reply
Well no, that is not that. What is the rest of your system? You must pick a pump that will work well with all components and your desired goals. Silence? Max Overclock? Internal? External? Etc, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by euclid
def internal and hopefully it can all fit into the tsunami i chose if not i will switch cases but if im gonna pay 60 for air cooling i would like to check out some water setups and maybe if it isnt that exp pick one up, thing is i dont know what all to get and i dont wanna have to get a whole diff psu for the setup, i have a 350 and 2 400;s layin around but i would like to use all off of one psu if at all possible and wishful thinkingly ( :) ) get it all for around 120 same as the big water :)
if it will cool me better than a 90c and tornado and be quiter im open to suggestions.
I know i need a pump and a radiator and hoses and all but like what kind is what im askin and i know i need more thanjust that
like i said im noob at watercoolin and also this is gonna be first a654 build and want it done right to last long long time and cool well and be cheap
Hmmm seems like im askin alot huh, well thats because i am. :)
and hopefully you guys can help me out a bit thnx in advance for anything said.
this is my first build, i am going for highest overcolock i can keep stable, but no benching. silence is not really a factorQuote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
dfi nf4
raptor74g
pcp&c 510 sli
3200venice
winfast 6600gt
1g ocz gold 3200 bh5
soundblaster audigy 2zs
lian li pc7plus (120mm intake/120mm rear exhaust/80mm porthole exhuast)
dvd burner
dvd reader
floppy drive
apc smartups 1000
weapon 302 dual heatercore and shroud
whitewater or rbx cpu block
maze4 gpu block
1/2" id clearflex or tygon
water wetter
i was orginally trying for an internal system using aquaxtreme 50z and 5.25 drive bay reservoir, but after installing the dfi, cards, and hard drive(2 more to come) i see there is not enough room to do it with 1/2" ID tubing.
now im going to buy a microatx case and mount dual 5.25 bay reservoir and waterpump seperate from my main rig, then sit the radiator on top of that case rather than on top of my main case... this will give me some peace of mind about the reservoir/radiator/or pump leaking and frying my components. plus this way i can use any pump, space in not really at a premium, and sound should be well contained.
i honestly thought a 12v setup with the same head might have lower temps than iwaki even though the iwaki has better flow.
since you told me differnt i remebered that in a car if you remove the thermostat from the housing it removes a major bottleneck in the loop and the waterpump moves more water, the car runs cooler... although a slower moving system IS cooled better by the radiator, it has more time/contact to pick up heat in the loop.
if the system is moving faster its true the radiator will NOT work as well, but since the water picks up less heat in the loop it will reach the radiator cooler, so the radiator doesnt have to work as well.
so just to clarify, in a watercooled cpu loop, 20c ambient temp...
12v pump(s) w/ 14ft of head and 100 gph flow. for arguments sake the water will reach the radiator at 55c and leave the radiator at 30c, a total temp drop of 25c directly caused by radiator
in the same system you install iwaki with 14ft head and 400 gph flow. the water reaches the radiator at only 40c and is cooled to 25c, only 15c drop in temp but system is still cooler overall. plus the gpu should run signifantly cooler b/c the water will not pick up as much heat from the cpu before it.
for arguments sake if the water in each setup reached the radiator at the exact same temp, then the slower moving system would run cooler, i just overlooked the other variable before i posted my question :nono:
edit: btw while we are on topic i thought i should add some advice in case anyone find themselves in this situation, if you are driving a car on the highway in the summer and it starts to run hot(maybe the fan broke) there is a way to keep driving without pulling over to cool down.
put the car in neutral(idle rpm usually 750) and coast for 10 seconds, the waterpump is usually driven by the timing belt so you will be shutting down the flow of the water through the cooling system. this will trap the water in the radiator and the heat will transfer out.
then put the car into 3rd or 4th gear for about 5 seconds, (you want the rpm close to redline) this will quickly send all that cool water in the radiator back through the motor and get the car back up to cruising speed, once you are back up to speed put it in neutral again and repeat the process. you can literally drive for as long as you want and the temp will stay normal.
euclid, you are still confused, that is not quite how it works. The temperature differential through the loop will be no more than 1.5C or so. That is it. The water coming out of the rad will only be 1.5C or so cooler than the water entering the rad. Don't use water wetter, it will muck your system up, just use some zerex or any anti freeze, 10% or so if you have no aluminum. Get the acetal top GPU maze 4. If you wanted to go with an Iwaki and that setup, go for the 20Z not the regular 20, it has 24ft head IIRC as opposed to 14 with the 20R. The new MCP655 would be a good choice to, and be within .7C or so of the 20Z. The 50z is also a good pump... I just don't find it to suit MY reliability needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
i just used the temps as examples, i know they are exagerations. thats why i bolded for arguments sake.
if i am still confused then you need to explain how a faster moving system will be cooled better by a radiator, it just doesnt work that way... assuming 100gph vs 400gph both enter the radiator at the exact same temp(not in a loop) the 100gph water will leave the raditor closer to ambient temp.
edit: if new mcp655(at 12v) is rated at 10' head and 317gph, and the iwaki 20R is 14'head nearly 500gph. then wouldnt the mcp655 have higher system temps than the 20R? or does 24v vs 40v even them out?
anyone with an Iwaki MD-10 ?
You mean 24w and 40w? You're looking at input wattages anyhow, output is the heatdump. The Iwaki dumps around 20watts in the loop, some are saying less now, but the MCP650 dumps around 20 as well. The 655 Cathar says should be the same, possibly slightly higher heat dump as the pump itself is more powerful now.Quote:
Originally Posted by euclid
yes i meant watts. if heat dump is the same then the iwaki should have the advantage over the swiftech, although the iwaki numbers are based on the stock inlet/outlet size which is 3/4", they might be over rated considering stepdown to 1/2" fittings for cpu application.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnJoY
euclid, this graph may help you understand... this testing was done by Bill Adams, perhaps the most knowledgeable man in watercooling who now works for Swiftech. As you follow the graph from left to right, you will see the curves going UP as flowrate is increased meaning more heat dissipation. The colored lines are the same rad, the 120.2, with different AIR FLOW through them. The bottom line (dark blue) is run with stupidly little airflow, while the top line is done with 2 Delta 1212VHE's at 12v while the yellow line is the SAME fans at 7v, which is more what one would see on average in their system. Notice how dissipation goes UP as the water flow does? Even with very little airflow it still goes up, just not much. With radiators, the amount of air they receive is 100x more important than how much flow they receive. I just wanted to help you understand that slower water flow through a rad does NOT perform better (ever) than faster flow.
it doesnt make sense to me.
What part?Quote:
Originally Posted by euclid
You are allowing yourself to be confused by the fact that if water spends more time in the rad, it would reasonablly come out cooler.Quote:
Originally Posted by euclid
But no matter the system flow, the water in a closed loop,
spends the same time in any point within that loop per minute.
Think about it like this, you have X flow rate so any one teaspoon of water spends 20 seconds in the rad and goes through the rad only once per minute. So if we increase flow to X2 the water only spends 10seconds in the rad, but goes through twice per minute. So in fact changing flow rates does NOT change the time any given teaspoon of water is in the rad, it just increases the number of passes per minute.
And as a rad works best when the differance in temp between the water & air is greatest, it now works better with the higher flow.
In the example where the water has double the time in the rad, the rad becomes less effective the cooler the water gets. Or for each 1C of temp drop, it takes more time to gain the next 1C as the water gets ever closer to ambient.
In the second example of the water going through twice, but spending only half the time, the rad is opperating closer to it's peak of effectivness.
Hope this is of some help.
Doing nice work Nik.
:toast:
So, which pump is better for a compact DC pump? So far I like the look of he 50Z, and the MCP 655. Which is better between those two? And are there any other good options to look into?
Thank you,
Yan Booth
50Z performs slightly better than the MCP655; however it also makes slightly more noise.
For a silent and compact pump I'd recommend the Laing DDC/MCP350. Modded it might even perform better than the 50Z and MCP655.
Well, I don't plan to do anything crazy with this pump, just go to a TDX block on the CPU, a MAZE 4 block on the GPU, and then back to the reservoir in the bay, all running it through a sinlge 120mm heatercore radiator. Depending on how much stuff fits well into the case (Lian Li PC-75), I am planning on having the radiator inside the case, but if it makes life hard to be like that, I am going to pull out the Radbox, and mount it on the back, so I guess that would produce some extra tubing to have to push through, but not too much. I do want something quiet, does not have to be silent, but moderately quiet. I guess I will change my mind, and go from the 50Z to the MCP655, unless anyone says otherwise.
Thank you,
Yan B.