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Yea Charlie, that would be nice:DQuote:
Originally posted by charlie
Bottom line guys... we're ALL winners. One year from now r507 LS/Mach2 will be $500 and one of these companies will release a micro-mini cascade with dual compressors tucked inside of a slightly enlarged bottom case that pulls -100C for $899!!!!!
I say they should just go right to cascade now.
Much easier said then done though:D
OPP
I thingk an auto cascade would be the cheap route....
chilly1,
Arn't you planing on coming out with mini cascades for the masses ?
I think as far as cascades it will take someone like Chilly or CC to introduce them to the public way before asetek or nVentiv.
See, our guys have to make them first so the other companies can use the ideas and improve them :D LOL
OPP
hmmm ls/mach2 for 500 bucks.. i might even go for that :)
/me presses the +1year button on his time machine
I am researching a compressor that was put forth by an appliance manafacturer a few years back it was 200% more effecient and had 1 moving part. If I can find this compressor commercially available a 50lb dual head cascade at 200 and 150W would be a reality....Quote:
Originally posted by OPPAINTER
chilly1,
Arn't you planing on coming out with mini cascades for the masses ?
I think as far as cascades it will take someone like Chilly or CC to introduce them to the public way before asetek or nVentiv.
See, our guys have to make them first so the other companies can use the ideas and improve them :D LOL
OPP
Ain't that the truth!;)Quote:
See, our guys have to make them first so the other companies can use the ideas and improve them LOL
OPP
Hmm cascade, thought about that for a 'colder then room temperature ' water setup (dual water loop) but is seems a nice way to get into the low -80 oC vapor range. Still curious what the heat capacity of the second stage coolant is and what the molecular density inside the evaporation block is.
I might stick around here for a while and see what I can think of. Since I've got a pure N2 gas net in my lab I was thinking about a cascade with a R404a compressor to help cool down the N2 gas and a BIG compressor to finish the job of condensating the N2 to a liquid. That way, the second (coldest) loop doesn't have to be closed. Obvious I still have to check the energy balance of this setup, it's just a thought. Anyone tried this in here?
wijdeveld, might be a good idea to check out the Vaporphase section for cascade tips and tricks.
I have a feeling that one R404 loop ain't going to get you very far w/ N2..
N2:
Critical point
* Critical temperature : -147 °C
* Critical pressure : 33.999 bar
* Critical density : 314.03 kg/m3
Thanks, I was planning to :)
But it depends on the second compressor :D. I'm in the luxurious position that I’ve already a molecule sieve installed on my 6 bar dried-air pressure net (non-cryogenic air separation). So, it’s just about the last step, cooling down the N2 before applying enough pressure (>34 bar) and heat exchange surface to get it liquid.
The problem is the evaporation behavior of N2, since the (mostly Janapanse) LN experiments with a cup of liquid N2 are awfull with regard to heat exchange behavior: liquid N2 takes too long to evaporate when put directly on the CPU die.
But as you said, I'll do some catch-up reading to do, especially on the Bowman & Beakers evaporation design :p:
What these companies fail to understand is that someone who has an idea usually has multiple ideas. Asetek should be contracting with Baker to manufacture blocks, even if they improved his design. You never know when he might have an even better idea, and hand it over to nVentiv.Quote:
See, our guys have to make them first so the other companies can use the ideas and improve them LOL
well basic idea is get the gas in and out of the evap as fast as possible but at the same time cover as much surface area and such correct??
didn't someone here talk about using a pump to help get the gas in and out faster into the evap ;)
There is a lot more to it than that.
What, only one ?Quote:
Originally posted by wijdeveld
. I'm in the luxurious position that I’ve already a molecule sieve installed on my 6 bar dried-air pressure net (non-cryogenic air separation).
:rolleyes: :D :D
I love these phase change threads, they are so interesting as they always boil ( or rather don't ) down to
Some statements
Some counterstatements
Some politics
Some incomprehensible physics that gets shot down immediately in the very next post by another expert
My diiick: is colder than your diiick
Some statements
Some counterstatements
Some politics
Some incomprehensible physics that gets shot down immediately in the very next post by another expert
My diiick: is colder than your diiick ........
ad infinitum
As an avid reader I have to say they are the most enjoyable and interesting threads on the entire forum.
Regards
Andy
Funny how we went from the vapochill ls to cascades. Well someday it will be a reality but for now we have to be patient. One thing that I am sure of Is that the masses on this forums don’t need cascades. Heck they do not even need anything better than a mach1/mach2 this year (maybe when cpus get hotter). A mach1/2/vapoxe/ls will all leave you on the same boat. The oc difference should be 50~200mhz tops. Now selling your cooling system which you got a few weeks/months ago for a 50~200mhz is STUPID.
A vapochill LS wont have a better chance of taking someone to the first page of the orb than a mk2 does. To get there is requires mondo cooling like a cascade or a “super” prom (compressor and condenser change). I doubt anyone needs anything colder than a mk1 unless your going for #1 on orb. Sure the vapo ls/mach2 is less hassle free than the mk1 and it makes sense upgrading from a mk1 to a ls but going for a mk2 to ls is almost pointless. People probably think that they will be “cool” or “godly” or “in” or whatever you want to call it if they get a ls but guess what no one really cares. A ls wont get you on top. Why upgrade your gaming rigs mk2 cooling to ls cooling? Makes no sense. An extra 200mhz is useless. Your eye wont detect the change in fps and windows wont feel any faster. Those who are going for the top will never use a LS because its insufficient. A cascade will do the job though. Notice that many mach2 owners (especially ones who are using modded ones) have the money to buy a cascade. But they don’t. That tells me that either a cascade is too messy for them or their not going for any world records. Than why in gods name sell a mach2 to upgrade for a LS???
What it all comes down to is your hardware and your skill. Most 3.2Cs will do 4ghz with phasechange. Now does it matter if a vapochill pe will get you 3.9 or if a mach2 will get you 4.1.. NO IT DOES NOT. Ted has a 3.2c that will do 4.2ghz on a vapo and 4ghz on air I think. It’s the chip that matters. In stead of spending crazy money on cooling I think people should keep their current phase change cooling system so they don’t loose money and if their pockets are heavy spend money on a better videocard, lianli mod instead of using ugly stock case and sides, nice speakers, some more ram. The good useful things. I see people buying a $150 videocard but are getting a mach2. That is REALLY stupid. Skill matters too. By upgrading to better cooling it does not guarantee you anything at all. I saw like 2 people using a mach2 on cpu and a vapochill xe on the gpu…And their 3dmark 01 score is 24k!?!?!?!?!? See what I mean. A little better cooling proves nothing. If you have great cooling but crappy results people would think your dumb.
Just my $.02
Most of the people I see upgrading from great cooling to greater seem to have alot of expensive gear and not cheap video cards. They have the money and they... uh... support the economy. They can do what they want.
Thats my two pennies, this is even though I think the 200MHz you estimate for mach I to LS is very optimistic in a lot of cases. Honestly though, could you not get away with spending less money on computer hardware? I have a mobile XP on the way and I'm not going for number one on the orb nor will it do much for me. New toy.
Consider paragraphs because it gets hard to keep track of which line to go skip on down to as you're reading. My brain split! Not trying to be a jerk just honest.
Well 200mhz at the most. But I bet it will be like 50~100mhz. Im not saying they cant or telling them not to. Its just really pointless. I too have plenty of money and spend much more $ on hardware than most people here do but I make smart buying decisions.
Argh i tried to read what i wrote and it made me dizzy
maybe its not out of stupidity but out of trying to help someone out, if u got something u dont want sell it cheaper so someone else can tade advantage of it if that in turn helps me buy something i want then its win win situation, next guy get a mach2 for hundress less i get something new sounds good to me, i have even gave away my old dangerden setup and my first koolance case to guys at work for free(well i got lunch for a week on the on the dangerden :D) so my buddies can oc too
lol... nice. Yeah, I have to whip up a nice little tbred B system for my pops with some stuff lying around. I feel guilty looking at his little :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: box when I go over.
WELL GUYS THOSE WHO BOUGHT ONE -> CONGRDULATIONS HOW DOES IT FEEL TO TEST NEW HARDWARE :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
If you can't get good results with PC-cooling you are either very stupid or you have sh*tty hardware. Overclocking is very simple and straightforeward. I don't really believe in skills. It's all about the effort and the time you putt in. The more you read and think the more you will get out of the hardware. Unless offcourse you're stuck with a bad cpu or vidcard or something.Quote:
Originally posted by Phyrox
What it all comes down to is your hardware and your skill. Most 3.2Cs will do 4ghz with phasechange. Now does it matter if a vapochill pe will get you 3.9 or if a mach2 will get you 4.1.. NO IT DOES NOT. Ted has a 3.2c that will do 4.2ghz on a vapo and 4ghz on air I think. It’s the chip that matters. In stead of spending crazy money on cooling I think people should keep their current phase change cooling system so they don’t loose money and if their pockets are heavy spend money on a better videocard, lianli mod instead of using ugly stock case and sides, nice speakers, some more ram. The good useful things. I see people buying a $150 videocard but are getting a mach2. That is REALLY stupid. Skill matters too. By upgrading to better cooling it does not guarantee you anything at all. I saw like 2 people using a mach2 on cpu and a vapochill xe on the gpu…And their 3dmark 01 score is 24k!?!?!?!?!? See what I mean. A little better cooling proves nothing. If you have great cooling but crappy results people would think your dumb.
Just my $.02
A cpu for instance will do a certain amount of Mhz. In who's hands it is doesn't matter. Analysing your system in order to tweak the right parameter is just common sense imo. Tweakers who can't do that are just not putting enough effort in. I mean..the info is all over the net. I got it that way so why shouldn't someone else? ;) Has nothing to do with skills.
Well you really have to take a look in the nventiv/asetek labs :)Quote:
Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Yea Charlie, that would be nice:D
I say they should just go right to cascade now.
Much easier said then done though:D
OPP
Much easier done by asetek because they are not iso certified and they will be the ones comming out with one before nventiv does. Takes many months to get something approved. However I rather get a certified product than an non certified one. Also the product that comes out last is usually better than what came out before it.
Just like buying a pc...Someone buys a pc now and his friend will buy one a few months later. The riend will get something better or atleast cheaper :toast:
Well skills do matter too. The more you do it the better you are at it. Lets take the A64 for example. Some people just do a sucide run and wind up with bad results. For example they just get the unit and right away they start pumping the fsb/. FOr example they have mach2 cooling and right away they set 250fsb and they cant go much higher than that and their content.Quote:
Originally posted by Fewture
If you can't get good results with PC-cooling you are either very stupid or you have sh*tty hardware. Overclocking is very simple and straightforeward. I don't really believe in skills. It's all about the effort and the time you putt in. The more you read and think the more you will get out of the hardware. Unless offcourse you're stuck with a bad cpu or vidcard or something.
A cpu for instance will do a certain amount of Mhz. In who's hands it is doesn't matter. Analysing your system in order to tweak the right parameter is just common sense imo. Tweakers who can't do that are just not putting enough effort in. I mean..the info is all over the net. I got it that way so why shouldn't someone else? ;) Has nothing to do with skills.
Other on the other hand (the ones with skill) they find out how far each component can go. For example they relax ram timings, redude ram speed to get max cpu clock, lower the multi meanwhile others just increase vcore and fsb like crazy.
im not going to mention any names at all
there were a few guys using P4 3.2EE's
they had a max3/p4c800-e, good ram, r9800xt and a mach2 and a xe for cpu/gpu cooling. and they got a crappy 24~25k score on 3dmark. i can easily get that with a fx-51 on 100% air. quad and stormpc got similarfx-51 results on air. and we have people using superior cooling and getting 24k on vapor phase change :stick: :confused:
my mach 2 was fun :D, my new vtech engine was heavy (shipped from japan :mad: , and my hew girl is hot :slobber:Quote:
WELL GUYS THOSE WHO BOUGHT ONE -> CONGRDULATIONS HOW DOES IT FEEL TO TEST NEW HARDWARE
all good to me
Well I can tell you this, the nventiv/asetek labs don't stand a chance with cascade cooling compared to Captaincascades lab. Los Angeles Cascade has nothing but -80c/-90c Cascade refideration units running 24/7 all over the warehouse and all the techs do is work on these rigs.Quote:
Originally posted by Phyrox
Well you really have to take a look in the nventiv/asetek labs :)
Now thats cascade wisdom:)
OPP
yup now if these guys had more resources they would kick the **** out of asetek/nventiv and take over the market. many guys here paid over 1500 for their mach2's including mods. if someone can release a micro cascade witrh good mounting and insulation they would take all of the customers. Im looking foward to buying one of CC's dual evaps unit as soon as its out. :toast:Quote:
Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Well I can tell you this, the nventiv/asetek labs don't stand a chance with cascade cooling compared to Captaincascades lab. Los Angeles Cascade has nothing but -80c/-90c Cascade refideration units running 24/7 all over the warehouse and all the techs do is work on these rigs.
Now thats cascade wisdom:)
OPP
OPP i seen some pics of your cascade. :slobber:
was browsing aseteks forums
http://forum.vapochill.com/showthrea...&threadid=5867
now are they trying to make a army of followers against nventiv :(