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Here is one of the things we are hoping to have complete for CES. It is the thermal head for the cooler we've been designing/working on. We haven't named it yet, and we haven't finished milling the piece down. But it shows the kickass 'twisted' pins.
come visit us if you are going to be at CES..
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...twistedpin.jpg
Hi Relttem,
Here's what I'm wanting to find out. I just purchased 2 of your IDC nano fluid as a result of watching a vid you put out on YouTube showing actual results of getting an average of 4C less than just using other kinds of fluid. But when I went here:
http://skinneelabs.com/coolantfluid-...performance/3/
I saw some very different results. Can I ask why and what is going on with there test compared to the one you did? I just hope I didn't throw my $$$ out the window ordering this stuff? :confused: Please get back to me as soon as you get this. Thanks... :cool:
Any updates on the black coolant?
ahhh yes...it's been a while..
So, briefly, we are still working on the black fluid. It's been rather a headache to get everything going with it, but we hope to be testing that any day now. We are testing a new fluid, which I will discuss in a moment. We are also working on a system that is similar to the H100, but with a few changes that are pretty unique.
The new fluid is basically the same thing as the current fluid except that it is in a concentrated form. One of the biggest hurdles we face is the shipping costs due to the amount of liquid involved. So, for the last year or so we have been trying to make a concentrated version that has enough pH tolerance to let an end-user add distilled/DI water and everything work just fine. We think we have done it. So, instead of buying a 1-liter bottle you would get a smaller bottle - 250ml (we aren't sure of the exact amount yet) that would allow you to mix with 750ml of water to get the same thing we sell now. We are thinking of putting a graph on our website, which is being overhauled as we speak, that would show/allow you to calculate the density/viscosity of the coolant if you want to use different amounts of water. We are doing some tests on different concentrations too.
We have finished the first rounds of tests with the concentrated version and everything appears to be identical to our original version - which is to be expected since we were just mixing in water. The nice thing is that we used a bottle of water purchased from 7-11. This Friday we hope to start testing our new black fluid.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...oncentrate.jpg
Does the 250ml concentrate have roughly the same amount of nano particles (or whatever they are called) as the 1L premix?
Yes, it does. If you mix the 250ml with 750ml of water you get exactly what we are selling. So, if you want a higher concentration you can do that too. We will put a graph on the website when it is all done that will show you the concentration you get versus how much water you use. We might also put a few graphs up there of temps that we get at different concentrations.
Here are some photos of the cooling system we have been working on. We hope to have it in a system in the next few days. The copper tubing is flexible and can be twisted/spiraled to conform to the available space. We will route ours over the fans in the computer. Notice there is no radiator, which we hope will help with the air flow thru the computer case due to the amount of restriction from the radiator being gone..
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...es/photo_3.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...s/photo_11.jpg
Um... You plan on selling a water cooled system without a radiator? Is that what I am reading?
yes, instead of a radiator the twisted copper tube will do the job. The twists allow for a lot more heat transfer across the copper due to the turbulence inside and outside.
Twisted Copper tubing.....intrigued how you did that, or found it
It seems to me, that area of heat exchange of sample twisted tubing is much much smaller then that of fins of even 1x120 rad, yet might cost about the same?
that's probably correct. There are a couple of other things coming into play too - the liquid flow thru the twisted tube versus the radiator will be different. The twisted tube is not really relying on fin heat transfer as much as the radiator. There will definitely be some challenges. There are no correlations between regular copper tube and twisted tube, so you really can't determine what length of tube you will need to remove X amount of heat. And, that also depends on how the twisted tube is configured. We hope to try a few arrangements and see if it will work. My only experience with twisted tube is in cryo-systems with phase change, so I don't know how this will work with only the liquid phase. I honestly think with the right set-up of the twisted tube it will work.
I am going to be putting it in an old Alienware desktop system. If I get it to work I will post some pictures of how it looks, and how it is performing. I hope to do this in the next few days. First, I have to see if I can get the old computer to boot..:)
Problem being, that heat transfer from liquid to metallic tube by far is not the bottleneck. Heat transfer from tube to air - is. At least that's the way it's in LC rads, and i doubt to see something fundamentally different in this case. It's just like with those "wonder" feser admiral rads with not flat inner tube surface, or rads with copper tubes instead of brass ones. Improvement in most cases is small enough to not justify more expensive material cost and difficult manufacturing. BTW, i see another problem with these twisted metal tubes. It hurts bling looks :). I liked few high quality builds with shiny metallic tubing, but here .. these tubes makes me think of shower tube from bathroom. So still expensive, even harder to make then with normal metallic tubes + not bringing bling looks of them, and not actually adding much to cooling. Imho more drawbacks then gains.
I appreciate your opinion not liking bling and all. I don't like Fords, so I don't buy them..:). I am not sure I understand your 'bottleneck" statement. If you can't get the heat to the air-side tube/fin wall you will be in trouble in general. In regards to air side heat transfer; turbulent flow is much better than laminar, which the twisted tubes should have. I am not claiming to get better heat transfer with the twisted tubes but am going to "see" if I can get the same - meaning that I won't need a radiator. Also, if I don't like the shiny color I'll just paint it.
You didn't understand me right. I like bling, and i like bling of metal tubing (such as in eg. murderbox). I won't use such myself as it's harder to do and more expensive then lazy and cheapass me would like. What i don't like are looks of these particular twisted metal tubes shown in pics. It's matter of taste though.
"Isn't bottleneck" as in capability of transfering heat from coolant to such metal tubing isn't what limits cooling capabilities, is not "narrow place" in chain of all stages of transfering heat from what are you cooling to ambient air. So enhancing it with twisted inner structure of such metallic tubes won't bring you much. Tubulent flow indeed is better then laminar, but even with laminar these tubes are more then enough capable to get heat from water to their metal walls.
On the other hand getting heat from those tubes to air IS bottleneck/narrow part, and small relative to rad fins area of heat dissipation, not placed right in way of concentrated air flow produced by fans, WILL make cooling capacity of such LC sys very limited, thus not worth to do, especially if it requires extra expensive tooling, extra work, won't bring good cooling, and hurts looks. Heat dissipation limits here wil more then offset whatever little will be brought by twisted inner structure with turbulent flow.
It's somewhat like story about plastic vs metallic cpu waterblock tops, where metallic one often won't give you any roughly measurable difference, but changing fan speed or rad section count will get temps down.
It will definitely take arranging the fans of the system in order to use the twisted tubes. The copper tubes will heat right up - just like a radiator. Again, I am not trying to beat a radiator, but I think the heat transfer due to turbulent boundary layer inside the tube/outside the tube will equal laminar boundary layer over fins and inside radiator. What I do not know is if I have enough length, if I will need a bunch of fans (since I don't have any correlations I have to reverse engineer the 'h' value) or if it will even work.
Your argument with the plastic tops is right along with mine - lowering the thermal mass. I will measure the mass of my system versus the same set-up with a 240 rad and see what the difference is. Thermal mass will definitely come into play.
With length shown in pics i'd rather estimate cooling capacity of this to less then that of 1x120 rad section. And that with more then one fan, or putting tubing into some air tunnel, or bending it snake or spiral shape to be blown at with reasonable amount of fans. Something can be cheated out, if toubing touches metal parts of case, partially using them as extra heat dissipation area. But then again metallic tubing touching case might bring extra noise from vibrations passed from pump to case walls.
just gotta fill it up and see what happens. I was rather sloppy with the routing/bending/twisting as I am more interested to see if it works. I also have to track down a fan for the back. The front panel already has a fan...
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...installed2.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...installed1.jpg
man, that IS something to see.....
I have it filled, but I can't get the MB/CPU to work. It is an old MB, and I had no idea if it was going to work. I thought it worked when I put it away but evidently not. So, I am going to swap the MB out and try again. If that fails, I will just get a cheap MB/CPU combo to see if this will work. As of right now, it is full and not leaking - that is at least a good thing.
it's alive. I had to swap out the MB. It is running prime95 right now. I'll post those temps when it is done. Those are the idle temps showing. Of course, this doesn't have the side panel on, nor does it have any large fans - just the two small ones blowing on the line. I'll get everything back together and arrange the fans and then see what happens maybe this weekend.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...runningIDC.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...altempidle.jpg
Prime95.. not bad
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...es/prime95.jpg
We are looking at getting some Tshirts made - what do you think?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...adjakprint.jpg
CES2015 free registration is open. If you have never been, it is quite the experience.
Our booth was re-located back to the south hall - #26312