ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

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06-19-2008, 06:00 PM
zerazax

We've come a LONG way. Remember this time last year? Our mid ranged cards were the 2600XT and 8600GTS (i'm still laughing at those two) and the X1950Pro.

Now we've got the 4850 competing at 2560 x 1600 with cards formerly priced $600 (like the 8800Ultra) for $200. I love this
06-19-2008, 06:02 PM
onethreehill

HD4870 vs HD4850
http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_24110474/tm.htm
06-19-2008, 06:04 PM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerazax

We've come a LONG way. Remember this time last year? Our mid ranged cards were the 2600XT and 8600GTS (i'm still laughing at those two) and the X1950Pro.

Now we've got the 4850 competing at 2560 x 1600 with cards formerly priced $600 (like the 8800Ultra) for $200. I love this

yap i also pointed that out @ a portuguese forum, and if you think about it, all because of R600 failure.

"bad things come for good things" :D
06-19-2008, 06:07 PM
Xoulz

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerazax

"next generation GPU interconnect for improved scaling"

Remember you still need a chip for the chips to communicate unless they were MCM, but even then (like Yorkfield/Kentsfield), there is a connect (otherwise the cores would never be able to communicate).

However, the sound of a next generation GPU interconnect is interesting... it looks like there IS indeed more than just CrossFire on the card as the 3870X2 which was just a bridge chip that simulated a PCI-E lane. The idea that there is an interconnect for communication might give credence to the cores themselves being tweaked to handle the interconnect.

Looks like R700 will score ~X7000 with a single R700... that's ridiculous considering the GTX280 scores what, just under 5K?

If you look at the cells and presentation panel by ATI @Cinama 2.0... it is very suggestive that the new HD 4000 series scales very well when adding a second card to the mix. Perhaps ATI is using a new "bus" of some sorts when multiple GPUs are being used!

-Xoulz
06-19-2008, 06:09 PM
YukonTrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by onethreehill

HD4870 vs HD4850
http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_24110474/tm.htm

So it's on average 20% faster than the 4850, at least in Crysis and 3DMark06. Not quite the 30% as advertised, but still fine by me. That average can always go up with other game benchmarks as well, and we might indeed see a 30% increase in overall performance.

In any case - *Yukon Trooper hugs ATI for bringing competition and low prices to the table.*
06-19-2008, 06:12 PM
zerazax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xoulz

If you look at the cells and presentation panel by ATI @Cinama 2.0... it is very suggestive that the new HD 4000 series scales very well when adding a second card to the mix. Perhaps ATI is using a new "bus" of some sorts when multiple GPUs are being used!

-Xoulz

Yeah preliminary crossfire results of the 4850 are showing that some games scale at 90% even when CF is working. And supposedly the RV770 architecture has many improvements in how the chip communication is designed. Looked almost like a dual core or quad core CPU in layout...
06-19-2008, 06:14 PM
AliG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper

So it's on average 20% faster than the 4850, at least in Crysis and 3DMark06. Not quite the 30% as advertised, but still fine by me. That average can always go up with other game benchmarks as well, and we might indeed see a 30% increase in overall performance.

In any case - *Yukon Trooper hugs ATI for bringing competition and low prices to the table.*

hey I'll take the 25% increase any day since I play at 1920*1200, max settings for once would be amazing. Not to mention drivers will probably improve the performance of both very soon
06-19-2008, 06:23 PM
iTravis

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Yeah, add to that all those reviews testing 2560x1600 with the "mid-range" cards :lol:. 4850 is the mid-range card, 4870 is the perfomance-enthusiast card and R700 is the enthusiast card. They're all priced acording to this and perfomance of course.

I just love this, dirt cheap cards capable of playing games at high resolutions. I'll wait another generation to make the jump to a 1920x1200 monitor, great perfomance without the CF/SLI requirement.

Who wouldn't, since I recently upgraded to a 24", I guess HD4870 CF is good enough for me. :D
06-19-2008, 06:34 PM
disruptfam

whats the price on a 4870?
06-19-2008, 06:39 PM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by disruptfam

whats the price on a 4870?

estimated 330$, IIRC

a pic of a 1gb version was shown a few days ago, price was 260€, vat included
06-19-2008, 06:41 PM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTravis

Who wouldn't, since I recently upgraded to a 24", I guess HD4870 CF is good enough for me. :D

Man I hope you won't get the same problems I got when I tried CF... crap experience. If you can, stay away from CF/SLI. Just a recomendation of an ex-CF user :p:
06-19-2008, 06:44 PM
disruptfam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

estimated 330$, IIRC

a pic of a 1gb version was shown a few days ago, price was 260€, vat included

$330 would put it about $400 ish in Aus.

hmmmm

gtx 260 $491

will the 4870 compete with the gtx 260?
06-19-2008, 06:50 PM
[XC] hipno650

Quote:

Originally Posted by disruptfam

$330 would put it about $400 ish in Aus.

hmmmm

gtx 260 $491

will the 4870 compete with the gtx 260?

it might be close but it looks like it will be a good 10-15% behind in most games.
06-19-2008, 06:55 PM
iTravis

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Man I hope you won't get the same problems I got when I tried CF... crap experience. If you can, stay away from CF/SLI. Just a recomendation of an ex-CF user :p:

That's what I have heard, ATI drivers ain't that good if I don't mean crappy. And I'm actually in a dilemma too, I'm currently using the 8800GTX and I just want an upgrade since all the new ATI, Nvidia things come out. After going through all the reviews about GT200 vs HD48xx series, I decided to go with ATI route and hopefully I can take advantage of my X38 board. One thing holding me back is the CF as you just mentioned, I don't know if it worth the hassle selling the GTX now and get the HD4870 when it's available, then grab another one for CF sometimes later. Still thinking about it though....:rolleyes:
06-19-2008, 07:02 PM
STaRGaZeR

In this forum lots of people have gone recently to the ATI route with CF thanks to the low prices of ATI cards and the huge number of motherboards with Intel chipsets in them. CF is crap, and after playing a bit with it they think ATI drivers are crap. The problem is CF, not the drivers. My recomendation is to stay away from CF/SLI, not from ATI cards. ATI drivers in Vista just blow away NV's, and this is a well proved fact. Try the red, you'll like it. And I'm also an ex-nvidiot :up:
06-19-2008, 07:08 PM
iTravis

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

In this forum lots of people have gone recently to the ATI route with CF thanks to the low prices of ATI cards and the huge number of motherboards with Intel chipsets in them. CF is crap, and after playing a bit with it they think ATI drivers are crap. The problem is CF, not the drivers. My recomendation is to stay away from CF/SLI, not from ATI cards. ATI drivers in Vista just blow away NV's, and this is a well proved fact. Try the red, you'll like it. And I'm also an ex-nvidiot :up:

Well then....you're saying the only solution for me is the HD4870X2? :shrug:
06-19-2008, 07:14 PM
Kai Robinson

Thats the reason i'm not going SLI....no way to do it unless nVidia release drivers that allow it on Intel boards...

nForce chipsets are fine for AMD solutions as they dont have a memory controller, but after the horror stories on intel boards, i'm steering well clear of it and going for a pair of 4850's on an Asus P5Q-Deluxe.
06-19-2008, 07:19 PM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTravis

Well then....you're saying the only solution for me is the HD4870X2? :shrug:

We don't know what the 4870X2 is, so not yet. You don't want another 3870X2, CF in a card, same history. If you're looking for that kind of perfomance go with a GTX280. Expensive, but it's fast in the resolution you'll play without CF/SLI problems. I'd wait to the 4870X2 to see how it works. My decision is between a 4870 and the X2. 1GB of course.
06-19-2008, 07:22 PM
YukonTrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliG

hey I'll take the 25% increase any day since I play at 1920*1200, max settings for once would be amazing. Not to mention drivers will probably improve the performance of both very soon

Exactly. I'm on 1920X1200 as well and I won't play a game without at least 2XAA/4XAF. Really looking to upgrade my 8800GTS 640MB...
06-19-2008, 07:27 PM
iTravis

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

We don't know what the 4870X2 is, so not yet. You don't want another 3870X2, CF in a card, same history. If you're looking for that kind of perfomance go with a GTX280. Expensive, but it's fast in the resolution you'll play without CF/SLI problems. I'd wait to the 4870X2 to see how it works. My decision is between a 4870 and the X2. 1GB of course.

HD4870 1GB eh? I totally forgot about that :D GTX 280 is way to expensive and it's definitely not worth it consider the price/performance ratio. I'm just looking to whatever solution that give me the best performance at 1920x1200for my money, simple as that. :cool:
06-19-2008, 07:55 PM
AliG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper

Exactly. I'm on 1920X1200 as well and I won't play a game without at least 2XAA/4XAF. Really looking to upgrade my 8800GTS 640MB...

yeah that 1gb version is looking better and better
06-19-2008, 08:03 PM
gojirasan

Well if you can wait until August you may see people like me putting their almost new GTX280 up for sale for like $329 or something in order to upgrade to a 4870x2. Of course that's only if AMD has found a solution to CF problems like micro stuttering and lag with the 4870x2 as some of the rumours indicate. I am optimistic about it. So I am expecting to upgrade to the 4870x2. In any case by August I think you will be able to find deals (probably with rebates) on the GTX280 for like $489 etc. This isn't like with the 8800GTX where there was no competition at all for a very long time. I don't think the GTX280 will stay above $600 for much longer. The 4870x2 is going to beat it without any doubt and that is rumoured to have an MSRP of $499. So there is no way Nvidia will be able to sell the GTX280 for more than that after it's released.
06-19-2008, 08:07 PM
AliG

Man that would be horrible if the 4870x2 is the new r600, especially if it has no micro-stuttering. Probably won't happen but they've been silent like nvidia on gt200 (no wonder gx2 is EOL, beats their own high end) and ati on r600
06-19-2008, 08:15 PM
Philip_J_Fry

i know this is been posted, but are these slides real??

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7878.html

if its real im in for R700 !
06-19-2008, 08:27 PM
jaredpace

could someone explain why Rv770's Stream & Shader clocks are locked @ the Core MHZ?

why cant you do 800 core / 1400 shader?

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