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12-20-2009, 09:28 AM
Alien Grey

I've been playing some more with FSB 500MHz today. The room temperature was 12° Celsius. Cold enough to run that board with high voltages.

With CPU Clock Skew Normal and NB Clock Skew Normal, I need over 1.75V on the NB to get it to run Prime95 Blend, but a some point my system freezes.

With CPU Clock Skew Delay 100ps and NB Clock Skew Normal, I need over 1.70V on the NB, but again at some point my system freezes.

With CPU Clock Skew Delay 200ps and NB Clock Skew Delay 100ps, I need around 1.70V on the NB but it's still not possible to keep Prime95 running.

This was with Ai Clock Twister Lighter and DRAM Static Read Disabled. I think that if ASUS fixes the problem with AI Clock Twister the problems with the clock skews are going to fix themselves.

No matter how high you push the NB Voltage, it's impossible to keep it stable. Some timings are probably to tight, leaving no room to push on the FSB. There's a good chance that if they fix that we could run at FSB 500MHz with less voltage on the NB.
12-20-2009, 03:30 PM
leo27

@A-Grey
So i guess 500mhz fsb is out of reach for air cooling if it needs 1.7 volts :eek:

Also i meant to ask you at the moment i'm running a 400mhz strap for 850mhz ram but i can also run the 333mhz strap at 851mhz would there be any difference performance wise using the lower strap???
12-21-2009, 12:25 AM
Alien Grey

Quote:

Originally Posted by leo27

@A-Grey
So i guess 500mhz fsb is out of reach for air cooling if it needs 1.7 volts :eek:

Also i meant to ask you at the moment i'm running a 400mhz strap for 850mhz ram but i can also run the 333mhz strap at 851mhz would there be any difference performance wise using the lower strap???

There should be a performance increase using the 333MHz strap. It's easy to find out if you try it and look at the EVEREST bandwidth benchmark results.
12-21-2009, 03:45 AM
Alien Grey

Quote:

Originally Posted by leo27

@A-Grey
So i guess 500mhz fsb is out of reach for air cooling if it needs 1.7 volts :eek:

If ASUS gives us a BIOS that is optimized for high FSB and Quads, I expect the NB Voltage to be somewhere around 1.55V-1.60V for FSB 500MHz. Still high for air cooling but it should be possible to reach with active cooling the NB.
12-21-2009, 03:07 PM
leo27

@A-Grey
I'll give the 333 strap a try and see how it goes

If thoses voltages turn out to be true then 3.5ghz at 500FSB might be in the future as i have a spot cool as close to the NB as a 280GTX in the upper PCIE slot allows :D

EDIT:Changing the strap to 333 didn't really change the bandwidth however the latency is consistantly 0.1-0.3ns lower so i'll keep it at the 333Mhz strap. For those interested the following table from anandtech's rampage formula review shows why.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9...rapscaling.png

As you can see at DDR 800Mhz with the 400 FSB strap the latency is 30ns
At DDR 800Mhz at the 333Mhz strap the latency is 25.0ns
12-26-2009, 02:10 AM
Alien Grey

I've got a question for you guys.

Who still wants to wait for ASUS to release a BIOS that would make it possible to run the ASUS Rampage board at 500MHz or DDR 1200MHz+ stable ?

Or don't you believe it anymore that ASUS is going to release a new BIOS that would make that possible and do you think it's time to move on and invest a small amount of money in a new board and different brand ?

The reason I'm asking this is because there's a board that doesn't cost you an arm and a leg and that makes it possible to run at FSB 500MHz stable and comes with a BIOS that we can only dream about right now. The only thing you would need is new mosfet coolers if you don't want to use the stock heatpipe cooling. :yepp:

Let me know what you think about that. I'm prepared to dump the board and to move on if that is what you guys think should be done.
12-26-2009, 03:50 AM
SoLoR

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-Grey

Or don't you believe it anymore that ASUS is going to release a new BIOS that would make that possible and do you think it's time to move on and invest a small amount of money in a new board and different brand ?

this, however i wont buy new board right now, ill just keep what i have for now. However as soon as some acceptable priced (~450-500euros) gulftown cpus will get out, im moving on. Even tho i was big fan of asus and i never actualy thinking about some other company (using asus mobos for ~10 years), i most likely will try some other manufacture for my next build.
12-26-2009, 04:35 AM
Alien Grey

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoLoR

this, however i wont buy new board right now, ill just keep what i have for now. However as soon as some acceptable priced (~450-500euros) gulftown cpus will get out, im moving on. Even tho i was big fan of asus and i never actualy thinking about some other company (using asus mobos for ~10 years), i most likely will try some other manufacture for my next build.

What are we going to do with more than 4 cores ? :shrug:

Most applications can't work with 4 cores. Application that can are mostlikely going the GPGPU way.

Anyway I was looking at the DFI Lanparty DK P45 T2RS Plus. I can buy this one for 128 Euro and I need 2 Thermalright HR-09 mosfet coolers type 3, a Thermalright HR-09U and a Thermalright HR-09S.
12-26-2009, 04:52 AM
SoLoR

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-Grey

Anyway I was looking at the DFI Lanparty DK P45 T2RS Plus. I can buy this one for 128 Euro and I need 2 Thermalright HR-09 mosfet coolers type 3, a Thermalright HR-09U and a Thermalright HR-09S.

Yes i think Gigabyte/DFI is the way to go. Specialy Gigabyte gives impression that they are updating their bioses for a long time. Not that i follow much this but http://station-drivers.com/, if you check you will see asrock/gigabyte/msi still updating bioses for old mobos, while asus only does for p55/x48 chipset mostly. And yes i know not all manufactures are there and that probably doesnt have each and every update, but it gives general idea. Also i woulnt really argue/be disapointed if i would buy some budget mobo and they would slow down support after a year. But since you buy "top of the line" mobo, just because you EXPECT everything will work as it should and requests for improvements/fixes wont get on fall on deaf ears.
12-26-2009, 05:16 AM
Rafatk

Well it is my first post here, but I have been following this thread long ago, before I got my RF.
Very nice mobo, features wise, enough for my OC, but I got stuck in a dilemma right now.
Where I live, I can`t find affordable Q9X50, which was the route I wanted to go, I say it is expensive because a Q9550 is more expensive than a i5 and close to i7 860, and the Q9650 is more expensive than the i7 860. And both i5 and i7 offer a way better performance and more OC head room than the Q9X50's + RF. (at least here where I live)
But going to i5 or i7 route will require changing mobo and memory, plus a new retention kit for socket 1156 for my HSF.
I think I should've got the extra 4 GB of ram + the Q9650 a few months ago before the i5 and i7 1156 launch. And try to OC the heck of the Q9650 with 8 GB.
But you got a good point A-Grey, what more than 4 cores for?! Maybe wait for Intel launch the controller for SATAIII and USB 3.0 and get the Q9650 even though it costs more than a i5 right now?!
12-26-2009, 05:24 AM
Alien Grey

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoLoR

Yes i think Gigabyte/DFI is the way to go. Specialy Gigabyte gives impression that they are updating their bioses for a long time. Not that i follow much this but http://station-drivers.com/, if you check you will see asrock/gigabyte/msi still updating bioses for old mobos, while asus only does for p55/x48 chipset mostly. And yes i know not all manufactures are there and that probably doesnt have each and every update, but it gives general idea. Also i woulnt really argue/be disapointed if i would buy some budget mobo and they would slow down support after a year. But since you buy "top of the line" mobo, just because you EXPECT everything will work as it should and requests for improvements/fixes wont get on fall on deaf ears.

The way I see it is that BIOS 0902 should have been the first release BIOS. It's the only BIOS that allows you to use the lowest tRD for the memory speed that you're using. :yepp:

I don't have a problem that they try to squeeze as much performance as they can on stock speeds but there should be a way to use the highest possible FSB too. ;)

We can trial and error as much as we want we will never see a really stable high FSB overclock on our board if ASUS doesn't take the time to fix it in the BIOS. Since they don't do BIOS updates for overclocking the chances that they are going to release a new BIOS to fix the problem are almost zero. :shakes:

We don't have to start :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing that it's a problem with the ASUS Tech Support because it isn't. It's a problem with their R & D team. I've send a mail to one of their employees to ask him what he thinks of the feedback that we gave him but it's obviously to much asked to get a reply back so we would know if something can be done to try to fix it or if it's a limitation by the board so we don't have to bother them anymore. :mad:
12-26-2009, 07:44 AM
Leeghoofd

I think it's more of a chipset problem than a bios one mate. My REX benched stable till 515FSB and a Q9550 Also with ridicilous volts on NB and FSB term.... for quads go with GB P45 UD3P, don't waste ya time with something else... my P5Q Dlx was far better with quads then any X38/48 I've ever had... Even Gb and co are slacking now in P45 bios development.. main focus is on P55 and co now lads... sometimes it's hard, either settle with what you got or move on...
12-26-2009, 08:29 AM
Alien Grey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

I think it's more of a chipset problem than a bios one mate. My REX benched stable till 515FSB and a Q9550 Also with ridicilous volts on NB and FSB term.... for quads go with GB P45 UD3P, don't waste ya time with something else... my P5Q Dlx was far better with quads then any X38/48 I've ever had... Even Gb and co are slacking now in P45 bios development.. main focus is on P55 and co now lads... sometimes it's hard, either settle with what you got or move on...

Why do I have the feeling that if ASUS didn't release the REX I would have seen far better results with my RF.

Every board does better with DDR2 than DDR3 but not ASUS. :confused:

Foxconn Bloodrage guarantees FSB 500MHz with CPU's that can run stable with the FSB. I don't know if that is also with Quads but at least it's possible to run that board with FSB 500MHz without ridiculous volts and with stock cooling.

Before BIOS 0902 it was impossible to run my memory at 1200MHz+ with tRD 6. Now it's a piece of cake and runs stable at 1250MHz with tRD 6 at 1.92V.

I don't need a ridiculous amount of FSB Termination Voltage to run at FSB 500MHz. I only need 1.38V and that's not bad. I would probably only need 1.55V on the NB if some timings would be relaxed in the BIOS and make it at least possible to get FSB 500MHz stable.

There's a lot more in that board but it needs a good BIOS to unleash it and the question is if ASUS is going to do that. They promised me to give me an explanation or to take action. But that's already a week a go.
12-26-2009, 08:34 AM
SoLoR

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-Grey

They promised me to give me an explanation or to take action. But that's already a week a go.

you do need to take in to account that there are holidays in this time of year, so it might take a week or two. Also maybe they are writing new bios already! (heh and then i fell off a bed and woke up)
12-26-2009, 09:24 AM
Leeghoofd

Why slacken the strength of the X48 ? X48 is more performant clock for clock than P45... Same was the deal with 975 and 965... Most of the P5W's were struggling to get over 420FSB, while the P5B's did 500FSB flatout, clock for clock P5B would be slower. But P5B made up for the loss with more FSB. Foxconn bloodrage ? Isn't that an I7, maybe you meant the Blackops ? My Rex is an average one and does 615FSb stable 3D, 600FSB/1920Mhz C8-8-8-24 1T 24/7 stable on air with my E8600... all chipsets on air. The Q9550 sample I got was limited at 515FSB benchstable, otherwise same effect as with you freezing galore... for 500FSB I only needed 1.55NB voltage and 1.35FSB term voltage to get it Memtest errorfree. For 515FSB I needed 1.67 NB voltage and 1.46 FSB Term to get it only pi32mb stable...

X48 with quads is like P45 with DDR3, meaning looking for trouble once you go 500FSB and beyond on quads...

Also take into account if you get a bios with slacker timings on NB, enhancing your quad overclocking experience but loosing performance on many other setups... isn't fair to everyone is it ? I hope you get an answer from the techs , but usually their replies are so so...
12-26-2009, 10:15 AM
traveler

Hey Buds! :toast: Happy holidays!

As you all may remember, I have been running my Rampage Formula using winXP. Well ... time for a change .... I have a black box that says Windows 7 Ultimate on it that I want to clean install on a new hard drive.

Any tips or precautions I need? Are there win7 chipset drivers that I need for the Rampage Formula? Is there a preferred BIOS? ???

:cool:
__________________
Asus X48 Rampage Formula / Intel Q9450 2.66 @ 3.2 / 2 x 2GB OCZ Reaper HPC PC2 8500 /
Asus Radeon HD4870X2 Tri-Fan 2GB graphics card / 24" DeLL Ultrasharp 2408WFP monitor /
Western Digital Raptor X Hard Drive / Two Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD5001ABYS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drives /
Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro 7.1 / Creative Gigaworks S750 7.1 Speaker System /
Lian Li 343B cube case / PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Crossfire Edition /
IOGEAR GCS1782 GCS1782 Dual-Link DVI KVMP switch with 7.1 audio
12-26-2009, 01:11 PM
Alien Grey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

Why slacken the strength of the X48 ? X48 is more performant clock for clock than P45... Same was the deal with 975 and 965... Most of the P5W's were struggling to get over 420FSB, while the P5B's did 500FSB flatout, clock for clock P5B would be slower. But P5B made up for the loss with more FSB. Foxconn bloodrage ? Isn't that an I7, maybe you meant the Blackops ? My Rex is an average one and does 615FSb stable 3D, 600FSB/1920Mhz C8-8-8-24 1T 24/7 stable on air with my E8600... all chipsets on air. The Q9550 sample I got was limited at 515FSB benchstable, otherwise same effect as with you freezing galore... for 500FSB I only needed 1.55NB voltage and 1.35FSB term voltage to get it Memtest errorfree. For 515FSB I needed 1.67 NB voltage and 1.46 FSB Term to get it only pi32mb stable...

X48 with quads is like P45 with DDR3, meaning looking for trouble once you go 500FSB and beyond on quads...

Also take into account if you get a bios with slacker timings on NB, enhancing your quad overclocking experience but loosing performance on many other setups... isn't fair to everyone is it ? I hope you get an answer from the techs , but usually their replies are so so...

Yes, I meant Foxconn Blackops.

You are right but I don't think that you would notice it if they would change some timings and nobody uses Ai Clock Twister Light or Lighter anyway. You only need it on high FSB and/or high memory frequency.

And if you really need the highest performance on stock speeds you have to use BIOS 0308. It's the only BIOS with tREF at 16383T.
12-26-2009, 01:15 PM
Alien Grey

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoLoR

you do need to take in to account that there are holidays in this time of year, so it might take a week or two. Also maybe they are writing new bios already! (heh and then i fell off a bed and woke up)

I agree but how much time does it take to put a few words in a reply? :shrug:

I think we should see a new BIOS really soon because Intel is going to launch the Q9500 in January but if something is going to fixed or added that's the question.
12-26-2009, 04:41 PM
leo27

I was debating going to a gigabyte ep45-ud3 as well but my ye old q6600 can't do much over 3.4ghz anyway (probably max is 3.5) if i had a q9650 then it would be a different story. About the best i would be able to do if i went to a p45 is go to a 7x multi and pump the fsb as high as i can.

Here a q9650 is about 100 AUD more expensive then a i7 920 so if i need more performance it'll be i7/i9 all the way.

I think if we don't hear anything by mid janurary then i wouldn't expect a new bios.

@Leeghoofd
The slacker NB timings would only be for clock twister lighter and light so that higher FSB's can be reached. Moderate, strong and stronger don't need to be touched and thus if your on realtively low fsb then performance should be the same.

The main thing i want is tREF bios adjustment.

@Treveler
For windows 7 just use the latest intel chiset drivers 9.1.1.1025 i think it is, you'll also need the latest intel matrix storage manager if you use AHCI or RAID mode (get these from station-drivers.com its easier then intel's site)
You'll also need the latest marvell network drivers these are from marvell's site (http://www.marvell.com/drivers/search.do)
The latest soundmax drivers are listed on the downlaods page for the rampage formula at asus's site for win 7.
And of course the latest video card drivers from either nvidia\ati's site.

After all of them are installed there may be some strange drivers not installed such as the asus atk0110 acpi utility etc (they'll show up in device manageer as an exclamation mark) they'll be picked up by windows update and installed when you run it.

I would use bios 902 but it really doesn't really matter as far as running windows 7 is concerned which bios you use.

I'm going to go with win 7 i've got it here ready to install, i'm just waiting for the new bios so that i can play with my OC and then once it's all good install win 7 fresh so i don't accedently screw it up during the oc process.
12-26-2009, 07:55 PM
traveler

Thanks for the tips leo27.

Regarding the AHCI mode:
I was informed that win7 already had built in AHCI drivers.

That being said: I wonder if the other items are self contained in win7. All of them can't be built in to win7, can they?

Are Intel chipset drivers unique to a particular motherboard? Or are the Intel chipset drivers the driver set to use on all motherboards with a particular chipset?

:cool:
__________________
Asus X48 Rampage Formula / Intel Q9450 2.66 @ 3.2 / 2 x 2GB OCZ Reaper HPC PC2 8500 /
Asus Radeon HD4870X2 Tri-Fan 2GB graphics card / 24" DeLL Ultrasharp 2408WFP monitor /
Western Digital Raptor X Hard Drive / Two Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD5001ABYS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drives /
Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro 7.1 / Creative Gigaworks S750 7.1 Speaker System /
Lian Li 343B cube case / PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Crossfire Edition /
IOGEAR GCS1782 GCS1782 Dual-Link DVI KVMP switch with 7.1 audio
12-26-2009, 08:19 PM
leo27

@Traveler
The built in win 7 AHCi drivers simply mean you don't have to install any drivers during the windows install (i.e the equivelent of F6 driver install with win XP). Once windows is on it is better to use the intel matrix driver for ahci rather then the windows one.
Windows 7 will most likely detect all your hardware with the built in drivers. Installing the ones i have mentioned will give you the best performance/stability. And yeah the intel drivers are for pretty much all the intel chipsets regardless of manufactuer they aren;t tied to a specific board.
12-27-2009, 01:58 AM
Alien Grey

I don't know what's really going on at ASUS but I've got a feeling that someone at the top from ASUS is really interested in what we can give them for feedback.

When they are holding us back from the high clocks and do this although they know it's possible to run at those high clocks, they are loosing a lot of customers to other board manufacturers and miss a lot of money.

Nobody is waiting for ASUS to launch a new board because everyone knows it's going to have the same problems. Have a look at the Maximus II Formula it has the same problems as we have on our Rampage Formula and it's using the P45 chipset so you would think it would be easier to push on the FSB.

They can't afford to loose anyone of us anymore and should only focus on what can be done to regain our trust in ASUS and try to win their lost customers back.
12-27-2009, 03:16 AM
kuebk

Have heard opinions that P5E with RF bios clocks ram much better than RF - so looks like it is more hardware than software problem.
12-27-2009, 04:22 AM
Alien Grey

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuebk

Have heard opinions that P5E with RF bios clocks ram much better than RF - so looks like it is more hardware than software problem.

I can't say that the Rampage Formula is a bad memory overclocker. I could squeeze the last stable Mhz out of my OCZ Reaper HPC PC-8500 memory and I never tried anything higher on my G.SKILL F2-9600CL5D-4GBPI memory than 1250MHz.

A stable 1117MHz isn't bad for the OCZ Reaper HPC PC-8500 memory at 1.92V and 1250MHz with 1.92V for my G.SKILL F2-9600CL5D-4GBPI isn't bad at all.

Maybe with a better BIOS that allows me to run that board with higher FSB, I can squeeze some more out of my G.SKILL F2-9600CL5D-4GBPI and I don't always trust what other guys are saying because you can squeeze a lot more out of your memory if you don't mind that it isn't stable. :shrug:
12-27-2009, 04:50 AM
Leeghoofd

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-Grey

I don't know what's really going on at ASUS but I've got a feeling that someone at the top from ASUS is really interested in what we can give them for feedback.

They can't afford to loose anyone of us anymore and should only focus on what can be done to regain our trust in ASUS and try to win their lost customers back.

I really don't think Bios development is focused on X48 anymore, even P45 is out of focus... hate to burst ya bubble here... most compatability issues are solved,which is their main objective. For them OC'ing is a never warranted, not even with the ROG lineup (the MFII formula bios issues are the proof )

I talked with some bios engineers of Gigabyte at the last event and main focus was P55 and to support the new clarkdale CPU's and co. I7 will see anew bios lineup to support gulftown and co...
I asked what about P45 and DDR3... you know their 3 letter answer mate : E O L

There might be some new bios but a focus on your particular issues, don't think so... I really hope you can prove me wrong :up: and that you are not fooling yaselves here. But if you don't try you will get nothing...

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