Crysis 2 being re-designed for GTX580

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Originally Posted by Hell Hound

That's why consumer's won't support those who spit in their face.But it doesn't matter they will get bailed out.

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So am I not a consumer?

Back to toiling the fields for anyone who disagrees with the principle and attempts to vote with his or her wallet... The company selling your milk doesn't do it because they care that YOU have milk, they do it because they care that YOU have MONEY which THEY WANT. The company selling you medication doesn't do it because they care that you get better, no - quite to the contrary, they'd prefer that you stay sick. As long as you are sick they make money. Unfortunately (and NO, I do NOT agree with capitalism, I'm simply saying it as it is) money is what makes the world go around. To fit in, Nvidia and every other large corporation out there has to have bad ethical principles combined with excellent business principles.

By the way, do you think ATI made your graphics card because they wanted you to have a graphics card or because they wanted to make more money? ;)

@VoodooProphetII

Have you been spit on by them,if so why would you support that.Consumer's are not drug addicts,we want respect and gratitude.Only through this does one become loyal.

I would be OK with select games being exclusive to NVIDIA or exclusive to AMD in the way games have been exclusive when talking about consoles.

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Originally Posted by Hell Hound

@VoodooProphetII

Have you been spit on by them,if so why would you support that.Consumer's are not drug addicts,we want respect and gratitude.Only through this does one become loyal.

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No I have not been spit on by them. What you see as them spitting in your face, I see it as them doing something to make the gaming experience better and me ultimately wishing that my company would actually get off their hinds and do something.

I like physx,but sell me a physx card that can work in any system or I won't buy.Just let xfx or somebody sell dedicated physx cards and make some money.
Whats the problem with how it use to be,user base ^money^.:up:

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Originally Posted by Hell Hound

I like physx,but sell me a physx card that can work in any system or I won't buy.Just let xfx or somebody sell dedicated physx cards and make some money.
Whats the problem with how it use to be,user base ^money^.:up:

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That's how Ageia worked till Nvidia bought them. :down: They should retire their renaming BS and just sell some decent PhysX cards if they can't come up with anything new often enough...

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

Examples or proof would be nice. Otherwise you're just some guy on the internet saying stuff.

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I cannot bring the case at the company that I work for in public because that would compromise my position. However there are several games out there where things like anti-aliasing are made dependent on the device-id. There are also many cases of deliberate code optimization vandalism, which either use device-id's or exploit exotic data formats and even driver features which are out of spec.

One major reason why drivers sometimes give major performance improvements in some games is because the other IHV-dev deliberately abused their access to code so that a custom layer has to be written for driver calls made by that app in order to improve performance.

Understood. However you seem to be saying that games may have special code paths that take advantage of a given IHV's software or hardware. I don't see the problem with that as long as the competition's performance isn't reduced in the process. Have you seen examples of an optimization for one party hurting the other?

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Originally Posted by [XC] Oj101

Back to toiling the fields for anyone who disagrees with the principle and attempts to vote with his or her wallet... The company selling your milk doesn't do it because they care that YOU have milk, they do it because they care that YOU have MONEY which THEY WANT. The company selling you medication doesn't do it because they care that you get better, no - quite to the contrary, they'd prefer that you stay sick. As long as you are sick they make money. Unfortunately (and NO, I do NOT agree with capitalism, I'm simply saying it as it is) money is what makes the world go around. To fit in, Nvidia and every other large corporation out there has to have bad ethical principles combined with excellent business principles.

By the way, do you think ATI made your graphics card because they wanted you to have a graphics card or because they wanted to make more money? ;)

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This x100...

Every single company that makes just about any product is evil. Some do "charity" things to get people off their back. Others keep things ULTRA quiet so no one finds out...

I wouldn't be surprised to see Intel, AMD, and NVidia having a big baby seal clubbing party together some day, all the while laughing at everyone who acts like the other company is any less evil. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

You refuse to see the reality. I have seen myself that money is being paid and/or resources spent under the condition to deliberately give the users of the other GPU-dev a clear disadvantage, even though there is no technical reason for it.

So you are not paying the better GPU-dev, but the one who has more determination to ruin the experience for those who dare to buy products from the competition!

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proof or it didn't happen. i want to see pics of the bags of cash being offloaded by folklifts...

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Originally Posted by Andrew LB

Oh yea.... and I never said it came out in 2009. I said they went BANKRUPT in early 2009, and had ceased production in late 2008. Only a few months after the first production GDDR5 modules which were put on ATi cards, which was mid 2008.

Only white papers and some samples ever saw the light of day in 2007. It took a full year of R&D to get the design properly working (developed in 2007-2008) so they could put these chips onto ATi cards in mid 2008 when production actually began.


The fact of the matter is... the comment earlier about how ATI could have blocked nVidia from Gddr5 but didn't is PURE FANTASY.

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R&D was due to GPU cycle AMD used at the time.

Also you quoted the quote as "later that year" which implied 2009.

/topic

You know its really tiring to hear Nvida this Nvidia that. Sure, we get it you can smear the competition all you want but it wont change a thing if the company you admire fails to provide.

How bout you ATI fans talk about how great AMD is, how much they have done for you and gaming community. What have they done to advance gaming accept providing a GPU. I really want to hear it.

From what i know Nvidia has supported 100's of games since i play on PC and had major impact on game advancement with new technology's. You can call them a gimmick, proprietary or whatever the point is that they exist and people take advantage of that for better enjoyment of games.

Now how many titles has AMD supported? I get it that AMD gpu's are fast and efficient and a good bang for the buck. That's all fine and dandy but where is the involvement in the games them self's?

ATi brought us tesselation pretty much (first introduced with R200 as truform, later called render to vertex).

There's a start for you, not to mention competition.

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Originally Posted by STEvil

ATi brought us tesselation pretty much (first introduced with R200 as truform, later called render to vertex).

There's a start for you, not to mention competition.

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it's one thing to have hardware capabilities, it's another to have software that uses them. i believe that is the point of this conversation, i'm not discounting the innovations brought to us by ati/amd, but it seems to me like nvidia is more willing to get the tech out there and support devs who are willing to try it.

Hardware should have no influence over the software development.

{
if
nvidia offer moneys exploit their ass;
//This is my project punk
else
keep developing as intended ;
}
:rofl::ROTF::clap:

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Originally Posted by Hell Hound

Hardware should have no influence over the software development.

{
if
nvidia offer moneys exploit their ass;
//This is my project punk
else
keep developing as intended ;
}
:rofl::ROTF::clap:

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Real mature don't you think.

Anyways, I belief 570091D has a point. Nvidia is not just a hardware company, they are also and sometimes more so a software company. They make things happen which is why you very rarely have problems running any game with a Nvidia card.

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Originally Posted by VoodooProphetII

They make things happen so that you can only run a game with a Nvidia card.

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Fixed

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Originally Posted by Hell Hound

Fixed

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Whatever floats your boat.

Providing additional funding to developers not only helps drive innovation by adding additional features that wouldn't be there due to set budgets and time constraints, the additional money allows developers some breathing room so games can contain far more levels of detail and content. It costs a lot of money to create a video game that has the ability to not only play well on the average Joe's computer... but to have that additional eye candy that goes well above and beyond what mainstream cards can do, and in many cases... what the fastest cards available can do.

The first Crysis was just one of those games. I don't recall many games in the past 20 years which completely brought even the fastest systems to their knees like Crysis did. And from a video card sales point of view, it's never a bad thing to have games being released with capabilities on the highest settings that require consumers to move up to a newer, more capable card.

Unfair competition, exploitation of loopholes, etc. isn't simply a capitalism problem. It's a human problem, and it happens anywhere they get involved with things. Whether or not "Nvidia" is interested in you having a video card, I can honestly say from experience that the people who work there are excited to see people enjoy and make use of GPUs in ways they wouldn't have first envisioned. I bet the same is true of AMD.

Like I said before, if this sort of polarization continues to the extreme we may actually end up with two types of software for two types of hardware.

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Originally Posted by cegras

Like I said before, if this sort of polarization continues to the extreme we may actually end up with two types of software for two types of hardware.

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sounds like a console to me.
and i 'love' my console so much

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Originally Posted by Hell Hound

Fixed

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If you were a company, and you were investing all of this money into making things happen, would YOU let your competition take advantage of those things? :confused:

That's a serious question to anyone out there who still says NVidia should let AMD use all of their features freely.

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Originally Posted by STEvil

ATi brought us tesselation pretty much (first introduced with R200 as truform, later called render to vertex).

There's a start for you, not to mention competition.

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The issue with AMD isn't ideas... I think we all know that. The problem is they lack the bankroll to help developers USE those ideas. I mean, we didn't see tessellation used even once until DX11 came around which added it to the API, while ATi have had it on their cards since what...2007?

This is why every time a new feature is added on an AMD card I don't pay it any mind unless it's a set standard...because they never get used. As many years as ATi had truform, I can only recall it being used once, and that was in a wolfenstein game.

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Originally Posted by DilTech

If you were a company, and you were investing all of this money into making things happen, would YOU let your competition take advantage of those things? :confused:

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Not only would they do that but they would also write AMD's drivers, implement CUDA for their cards and share all their patents for free too. Hey if you wanna be a charity might as well do it big! :)