Apogee GTZ

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07-29-2008, 06:44 PM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

The hardest stress test for a quad or any cpu i know of is F@H.:shrug:

Hardly. TAT (Intel's Thermal Analysis Tool) will get a dual core hotter than anything else can... but the bummer is it only works on dual cores. Gets The cores some 15C hotter than FAH can.
07-29-2008, 07:12 PM
hotdun

Did you guys see this description?

=================
The Apogee™ GTZ is Swiftech's new flagship water-block. While it shares the same name with its predecessors, it also leaps beyond the GT and GTX performance charts thanks to an entirely new design that pushes and refines both thermal and mechanical specifications to the limits of today's technology. Thermal design of the cooling engine combines the benefits of direct coolant impingement over the CPU area with an entirely new copper base plate design which is primarily characterized by a pin matrix composed of 225 µm (0.009") micro structures. This results in a 20% improvement in thermal resistance compared to the Apogee™ GTX. Mechanical design of the copper base plate is optimized for Intel socket 775 and 771 and features a topographically mapped CPU contact area which results in a 75% and up to 300% improvement in TIM joint thermal resistance compared to the Apogee™ GT/GTX series. It should be noted that other types of sockets (AMD socket F, AM2, 940) may also benefit from the enhanced contact area to a lesser extent. An enhanced tool free retention system using thumb-nuts paired with a universal 775 motherboard back-plate also guarantees high quality, safe and repeatable mounts.

- The Apogee™ GTZ is shipped with an Intel® Core™ 2 (socket 775) compatible hold-down plate and complies with socket 775 keep-out specification, thus guaranteeing compatibility with all socket 775 type motherboards.
=================
07-29-2008, 07:35 PM
twwen2

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotdun

Did you guys see this description?

=================
The Apogee™ GTZ ... Thermal design of the cooling engine combines the benefits of direct coolant impingement over the CPU area with an entirely new copper base plate design which is primarily characterized by a pin matrix composed of 225 µm (0.009") micro structures... =================

Good find! So from that description, it'll have a refined pin-matrix (ala GTX/Fusion, but improved), but also utilise impingement over the centre patch (similar to a nozzled fusion?).

Inseresting stuff:yepp:
07-29-2008, 07:36 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Hardly. TAT (Intel's Thermal Analysis Tool) will get a dual core hotter than anything else can... but the bummer is it only works on dual cores. Gets The cores some 15C hotter than FAH can.

Maybe but it doesnt on my x3110 or Q66.
Plus they pass all test but F@H after 2 days.
With givin OC.
07-29-2008, 07:50 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotdun

Did you guys see this description?

=================
The Apogee™ GTZ is Swiftech's new flagship water-block. While it shares the same name with its predecessors, it also leaps beyond the GT and GTX performance charts thanks to an entirely new design that pushes and refines both thermal and mechanical specifications to the limits of today's technology. Thermal design of the cooling engine combines the benefits of direct coolant impingement over the CPU area with an entirely new copper base plate design which is primarily characterized by a pin matrix composed of 225 µm (0.009") micro structures. This results in a 20% improvement in thermal resistance compared to the Apogee™ GTX. Mechanical design of the copper base plate is optimized for Intel socket 775 and 771 and features a topographically mapped CPU contact area which results in a 75% and up to 300% improvement in TIM joint thermal resistance compared to the Apogee™ GT/GTX series. It should be noted that other types of sockets (AMD socket F, AM2, 940) may also benefit from the enhanced contact area to a lesser extent. An enhanced tool free retention system using thumb-nuts paired with a universal 775 motherboard back-plate also guarantees high quality, safe and repeatable mounts.

- The Apogee™ GTZ is shipped with an Intel® Core™ 2 (socket 775) compatible hold-down plate and complies with socket 775 keep-out specification, thus guaranteeing compatibility with all socket 775 type motherboards.
=================

Nice find!..

Man .009", that's like copper hair! This is getting very interesting...:D
07-29-2008, 08:23 PM
jkresh

interesting that they seem to have made the block for 775/771, I wonder how that will impact performance on Nehalem (can't see buying a block now that won't perform well with the next upgrade).
07-29-2008, 08:28 PM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkresh

interesting that they seem to have made the block for 775/771, I wonder how that will impact performance on Nehalem (can't see buying a block now that won't perform well with the next upgrade).

The current blocks MORE than cover the IHS so I don't see an issue with the bigger IHS on Nehalem, just will need a new mount plate or the current one drilled for the new hole spacing..
07-29-2008, 08:32 PM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Hardly. TAT (Intel's Thermal Analysis Tool) will get a dual core hotter than anything else can... but the bummer is it only works on dual cores. Gets The cores some 15C hotter than FAH can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

Maybe but it doesnt on my x3110 or Q66.
Plus they pass all test but F@H after 2 days.
With givin OC.

:ROTF::ROTF::ROTF:

Don't skim a post from nikhsub...read the entire thing, read it twice. This is one guy among a few here in the LC section that when they speak, you listen.
07-29-2008, 08:52 PM
hotdun

"topographically mapped CPU contact area"
What does this thing come bowed?

Any current blocks with comparable pin size, i.e. 0.009" ?
07-29-2008, 08:56 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnee

:ROTF::ROTF::ROTF:

Don't skim a post from nikhsub...read the entire thing, read it twice. This is one guy among a few here in the LC section that when they speak, you listen.

Im not knockin him.

But it still doesnt change the fact that the SMP client is the
hardest stress test on MY CPU.

You do know a x3110 is a dualcore and a Q66 is a quad core dont you?
07-29-2008, 09:06 PM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

You do know a x3110 is a dualcore

Doh! My bad, I thought only the Xeon eXXXX's were duals.
07-29-2008, 09:09 PM
silverphoenix

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotdun

"topographically mapped CPU contact area"
What does this thing come bowed?

Any current blocks with comparable pin size, i.e. 0.009" ?

I've got my fingers crossed that it's that special IBM micro cross matrixing that increases TIM spread and increases thermal efficiency. Of course I can wish and hope lol.
07-29-2008, 09:10 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnee

Doh! My bad, I thought only the Xeon eXXXX's were duals.

Well the x3110 is basically an E8400.
There is also an x3350 (something er other) which is the
equivelent to the Q66:shrug:
07-29-2008, 09:23 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotdun

"topographically mapped CPU contact area"
What does this thing come bowed?

Any current blocks with comparable pin size, i.e. 0.009" ?

The thermalright XWB-01 probably has the finest pins of the blocks I have on hand, it's probably in the neighborhood of that dimension or under .010" anyhow. But the TR is made from what appears to me, some sort of copper sheet method, where they stamp out the ultra fine pins and stack alternating sheets of pins, no pins, pins, etc, and then it's soldered to the base.

Trying to machine or cast something that fine would be very difficult.

Where did you find that introduction anyhow? I can't find it on their site..
07-29-2008, 09:27 PM
hotdun

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverphoenix

I've got my fingers crossed that it's that special IBM micro cross matrixing that increases TIM spread and increases thermal efficiency. Of course I can wish and hope lol.

Whoa, something like this?

============
"The clever bit is the layout of the channels. According to Big Blue boffins, the system uses a hierarchical network of pathways not unlike tree branches or human blood vessels. Bigger canals feed into smaller tributaries, down into a narrower rivers and streams.

http://regmedia.co.uk/2006/10/26/ibm_paste_1.jpg

IBM claimed the channels allow the thermal paste to spread more completely and more thinly (see above), improving its ability to conduct heat away from the chip and through to a heatsink, fan, cooling pipe or liquid-filled radiator. The paste is essential to allow the chip to maintain contact with its cooler even though the gap between the two devices changes as they both undergo thermal expansion and contraction."
============

Looking around, I found this too: LINK
I think I just had an accident...
07-29-2008, 09:30 PM
hotdun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

The thermalright XWB-01 probably has the finest pins of the blocks I have on hand...

Ya, I was reading your review on your website and saw you mention that....interesting.

I found the GTZ description on this random website here: LINK
07-29-2008, 10:05 PM
twwen2

Woah i remember reading about that IBM thing but had forgotten about it. I wonder...
07-30-2008, 04:21 AM
rosco

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverphoenix

I've got my fingers crossed that it's that special IBM micro cross matrixing that increases TIM spread and increases thermal efficiency. Of course I can wish and hope lol.

Not at all, it's just a bowed base, a "convexo-concave" one, in order to match as good as possible the deformed shape induced by the hold-down socket plate and an original IHS.
07-30-2008, 04:46 AM
jonny_ftm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

Ahh, ok. I tried the 8K in place vs the OCCT 2.0.0a back and forth several times, and they are close. I do seem to have just a touch more heat coming from the OCCT runs and it's less button clicking, so I think I'm going to go that route.:up:

OCCT 2.x in CPU mode uses same algorithm as prime95, but it is much more optimized and better multithreading. The FFT are iterations from 8-64k in OCCT while Prime95 stops at 32k (could be a plus or less as 64k will be out of the CPU cache)
OCCT v2.x in CPU mode in my comparisions testing will give the same temp as Prime95 small FFT but it will be reached much quicker.

Using OCCT in custom mode is a bad idea. It will make iterations between the CPU mode and the RAM mode at regular intervals. You can see it with an oscilloscopic temp curve on the cores (OCCT 2.x I talk about)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

The hardest stress test for a quad or any cpu i know of is F@H.:shrug:

Though, not sure if you would have the time or desire to run it.?

F@H will make a stress on the whole system, including the RAM and NB. Hangs ups won't be CPU only related. And F@H can't load a CPU hotter than Prime95. Also, far better than F@H at loading the whole CPU-NB-RAM system is OCCT v2.x in RAM mode.

Linpack could be a great tool, but only in its 64bit edition. The 32bits edition, in my testings, doesn't stand up to OCCT or Prime95, even with the excessive heat generated.

Finally, I'm not sure TAT really gives so much heat. I thought it was some "software simulation" of a 100% TDP state of the CPU, where all other programs, including Prime95 won't exceed maybe the 80-85% TDP of the CPU

All this was largely discussed in the "Intel" subsection of the forum. Maybe it's better to continue debating there if you like. Just make a search before. there are great topics discussing all this and whereI also posted comparision curves
07-30-2008, 05:56 AM
C'DaleRider

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

Well the x3110 is basically an E8400.
There is also an x3350 (something er other) which is the
equivelent to the Q66:shrug:

Well, you're almost right.......

The Xeon socket 775 cpus are arranged as this:

The X30xx's are Conroe cpus

The X31xx's are Wolfdale cpus

The X32xx's are Kentsfield cpus (like with the Q6600....the Xeon equivalent is the X3220)

The X33xx's are Yorkfield cpus
07-30-2008, 07:13 AM
menace2society

Is this going to be a Intel only block :shrug: Not one mention of anything AMD or how anything preforms on anything AMD is there absolutely no interest in AMD at all? :shocked:

How the might have fallen. :shakes:
07-30-2008, 07:46 AM
jonny_ftm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoffey

All true, but you want a fixed length FFT/WU for any type of CPU block testing. In Prime95, you set that via the custom menu. For Prime it's between 8-64k. From what I've seen, "CPU" mode in OCCT uses a fixed length also I would expect. I say this because the heat load and power draw doesn't fluctuate in OCCT's CPU mode.

So bottom line, as long as the loading software allows one to control the heat dump in a "fixed manor" it's good to use.

From what Martin said, he observed a steady load with OCCT also.

andyc

No, it will iterate between 8-64k, I confirmed this with the author, no way to fix it. I participated in the beta debugging on HFR forums...
But as you can see, using small iterations won't affect temps of the CPU at all since the load on processing units will be the same with OCCT. It is optimized for that. I can confirm the CPU temps curves will be linear at a maximum heat
07-30-2008, 09:25 AM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny_ftm

OCCT 2.x in CPU mode uses same algorithm as prime95, but it is much more optimized and better multithreading. The FFT are iterations from 8-64k in OCCT while Prime95 stops at 32k (could be a plus or less as 64k will be out of the CPU cache)
OCCT v2.x in CPU mode in my comparisions testing will give the same temp as Prime95 small FFT but it will be reached much quicker.

Using OCCT in custom mode is a bad idea. It will make iterations between the CPU mode and the RAM mode at regular intervals. You can see it with an oscilloscopic temp curve on the cores (OCCT 2.x I talk about)

F@H will make a stress on the whole system, including the RAM and NB. Hangs ups won't be CPU only related. And F@H can't load a CPU hotter than Prime95. Also, far better than F@H at loading the whole CPU-NB-RAM system is OCCT v2.x in RAM mode.

Linpack could be a great tool, but only in its 64bit edition. The 32bits edition, in my testings, doesn't stand up to OCCT or Prime95, even with the excessive heat generated.

Finally, I'm not sure TAT really gives so much heat. I thought it was some "software simulation" of a 100% TDP state of the CPU, where all other programs, including Prime95 won't exceed maybe the 80-85% TDP of the CPU

All this was largely discussed in the "Intel" subsection of the forum. Maybe it's better to continue debating there if you like. Just make a search before. there are great topics discussing all this and whereI also posted comparision curves

Yeah im not gonna debate anymore, but SMP stresses my cpu only.
Almost 0 ram usage according to windows taskmanager.

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