AMD Cayman info (or rumor)

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12-13-2010, 12:59 PM
cold2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

Someone from MSI did benchmarks? I surely hope not because releasing those numbers would be a breach of NDA and have serious impact on the allocation.
here's some food for thought.
All the benchmarks you see are for the 190W TDP limited card, you can still adjust the card to 250W TDP (closer to the 580), what do you think it would do with the performance numbers?

:welcome:

Turbo :yepp: :rofl:

no no no you are kidding :rofl::ROTF:

Colorful iGame GTX 460 1 GB

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2633/turbouv.jpg

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Colorful/i...rfrel_1920.gif

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Colorful/i...er_maximum.gif
12-13-2010, 12:59 PM
nascasho

I'm hoping those cards OC to hell and back like the 500's do. At 900Mhz for both the 570 and the 580 they are in their own leagues and seems a bunch hit those freq. My poor 470 only hits 875Mhz max, 850Mhz 24/7 and I barely swipe past a stock 480 ( :( ). If those 6900's they can do a good 1100mhz probably without that PowerTune thing on, I bet you they'll be beasts. I just hope most of it can be done on the stock cooler or a decent waterblock.
12-13-2010, 01:00 PM
neliz

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Since when does increasing the TDP limits do anything for performance? Overclocking, sure.

You are assuming that any power saving methods AMD has worked up will have an impact upon in-game performance. That would be a huge mistake on AMD's part and one I am sure has been addressed long ago.

I thought you were an editor with cards, yes?

http://i54.tinypic.com/1zqaurt.jpg
12-13-2010, 01:06 PM
zerazax

Now that's interesting, since Perlin Noise focuses on shader throughput

So at +10% power, core clock doesn't fluctuate? But at default, core clocks change?

Feels like turbo boost for GPUs
12-13-2010, 01:08 PM
SKYMTL

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

I thought you were an editor with cards, yes?

http://i54.tinypic.com/1zqaurt.jpg

What I see is an intent to mislead readers of this thread with a complete assumption. You are taking a graph far out of context. I will say no more.
12-13-2010, 01:18 PM
hurrdurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

I thought you were an editor with cards, yes?

http://i54.tinypic.com/1zqaurt.jpg

I guess you are mistaken in assuming that with the 250W mode enabled, it automatically ups the clocks; whereas SKYMTL has said that it merely ups the TDP limit (that didn't exist until this point, anyway) and allows for more overclocking.
12-13-2010, 01:19 PM
cegras

What a trainwreck of a thread ... please 15th, save me, save us all.
12-13-2010, 01:28 PM
neliz

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurrdurr

I guess you are mistaken in assuming that with the 250W mode enabled, it automatically ups the clocks; whereas SKYMTL has said that it merely ups the TDP limit (that didn't exist until this point, anyway) and allows for more overclocking.

No, I don't say it automatically ups the clocks, it has a default clock and the tdp limit is there to make sure it doesn't go over it (the TDP), hence the redline at 800 MHz, while at default TDP the card will fluctuate between 650 and 800 (more 650 than 800) to maintain the lower TDP and thus limit performance.

If the card redlines at 800MHZ and 220W, you won't get extra performance at 250W, only if you OC.
12-13-2010, 01:32 PM
nascasho

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

No, I don't say it automatically ups the clocks, it has a default clock and the tdp limit is there to make sure it doesn't go over it, hence the redline at 800 MHz, while at default TDP the card will fluctuate between 650 and 800 (more 650 than 800) and thus limit performance.

Does the switch enable >9000 mode? :yepp:
12-13-2010, 01:33 PM
Tha Last Meal

Quote:

please 15th, save me, save us all.

OOOOH Jesus Help me :D
12-13-2010, 01:35 PM
hurrdurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

No, I don't say it automatically ups the clocks, it has a default clock and the tdp limit is there to make sure it doesn't go over it, hence the redline at 800 MHz, while at default TDP the card will fluctuate between 650 and 800 (more 650 than 800) and thus limit performance.

I don't get it - isn't the card's default clock 800? With the default TDP limit it will fail at achieving that consistently and will occasionally fall to 650 levels?

OH SHI- so this means that, even without any overclocking, if you flip the switch and up the TDP limit, you will get greater performance?
12-13-2010, 01:38 PM
neliz

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurrdurr

I don't get it - isn't the card's default clock 800? With the default TDP limit it will fail at achieving that consistently and will occasionally fall to 650 levels?

OH SHI- so this means that, even without any overclocking, if you flip the switch and up the TDP limit, you will get greater performance?

What switch? you just have the slider for adjusting the TDP limit up/down and the switch to allow flashing of the bios.
12-13-2010, 01:41 PM
hurrdurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

What switch? you just have the slider for adjusting the TDP limit up/down and the switch to allow flashing of the bios.

Oh right, sorry.

But, everything else was right?

Does the default TDP force the default clocks down (to below 800) occasionally? And if you were to up the TDP you'd get more performance?

I do think the initial "this card is very slow" reviews had to do with that, then. With newer drivers they were able to up the TDP limit and reach the true power of the card.
12-13-2010, 01:42 PM
[XC] hipno650

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

No, I don't say it automatically ups the clocks, it has a default clock and the tdp limit is there to make sure it doesn't go over it (the TDP), hence the redline at 800 MHz, while at default TDP the card will fluctuate between 650 and 800 (more 650 than 800) to maintain the lower TDP and thus limit performance.

If the card redlines at 800MHZ and 220W, you won't get extra performance at 250W, only if you OC.

i will wait for the 15th so that we can figure out exactly what this whole power tune AM/FM radio switch power saving maybe turbo boost stuff is. because for AMD to have the card set to a TDP and raise or lower clocks to stay within that limit would be nothing short of pure stupidity. considering most people who buy this card have no interest in OCing and know little more then how to plug in a stick of RAM let alone do research to find out that to get the most performance out of their brand new $400+ video card they need to hit some stupid switch. I appreciate AMD trying to make the card as efficient as possible but at the cost of performance like that is way to far over the line...
12-13-2010, 01:45 PM
zalbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightman

PS. Gibbo from OCuk has hinted that HD6970 can be £100 cheaper than GTX580 on release ....

Now that would be superb! :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by biohead

ROFL i just noticed the thread tags.

Someone is gonna get banned... :hehe:

Quote:

Originally Posted by nascasho

I'm hoping those cards OC to hell and back like the 500's do. At 900Mhz for both the 570 and the 580 they are in their own leagues and seems a bunch hit those freq. My poor 470 only hits 875Mhz max, 850Mhz 24/7 and I barely swipe past a stock 480 ( :( ). If those 6900's they can do a good 1100mhz probably without that PowerTune thing on, I bet you they'll be beasts. I just hope most of it can be done on the stock cooler or a decent waterblock.

1100MHz using a waterblock? I was hoping for 1300-1400 with all those fancy turbo switches and stuff! :D
Besides, AMD promised really good OCing of these cards, since the power regulation is very similar to CPUs.
12-13-2010, 01:47 PM
zshadow

Quote:

Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650

i will wait for the 15th so that we can figure out exactly what this whole power tune AM/FM radio switch power saving maybe turbo boost stuff is. because for AMD to have the card set to a TDP and raise or lower clocks to stay within that limit would be nothing short of pure stupidity. considering most people who buy this card have no interest in OCing and know little more then how to plug in a stick of RAM let alone do research to find out that to get the most performance out of their brand new $400+ video card they need to hit some stupid switch. I appreciate AMD trying to make the card as efficient as possible but at the cost of performance like that is way to far over the line...

Most people who buy a $400 card have no interest in OC'ing? :rofl:

I'd say it's the other way around..

Also, the switch seems to be some sort of BIOS reset mechanism. I don't think it's related.
12-13-2010, 01:51 PM
flyck

Quote:

Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650

i will wait for the 15th so that we can figure out exactly what this whole power tune AM/FM radio switch power saving maybe turbo boost stuff is. because for AMD to have the card set to a TDP and raise or lower clocks to stay within that limit would be nothing short of pure stupidity. considering most people who buy this card have no interest in OCing and know little more then how to plug in a stick of RAM let alone do research to find out that to get the most performance out of their brand new $400+ video card they need to hit some stupid switch. I appreciate AMD trying to make the card as efficient as possible but at the cost of performance like that is way to far over the line...

if the 6970 with the best power profile still nears 580GTX performance, what is to complain about? i rather use 50W less and have still unnoticable difference in a game then the reverse.
12-13-2010, 01:54 PM
zerazax

Switch = dual BIOS - mainly to fight cold bug and other things

What I think neliz is trying to say is this:

The TDP limit can be adjusted by a slider (+/- certain %)and the card adjusts core clock to keep card within the TDP limit (note: not heat, but TDP). The core clock is also the limit of how high the card will clock. That is, if you set TDP to +20% to 240W, but core clock is maintained at 800 MHz, the card will just stay flat at 800MHz at all times. However, adjust it to 900 MHz, and the card will run at 900MHz as long as it is within the TDP limit of 240W you set.

Example: With higher TDP limit, the core clock can be maintained higher - hence the chart shows that at +10% power, the core clock can be maintained at 800 MHz evenly.

To go above 800, you still have to OC the card - and you can adjust the TDP as well to maintain it if you want.

It feels like... turbo core for GPUs

Interesting stuff! It makes 2 x CaymanXT's feasible for 6990 since you can play around with power...

edit: I also think this is where the difference between 6970 and 6950 lies too. 6970 is at 880 MHz which is 10% higher clock than 6950. But its max TDP is allegedly set at 250W, or 25% more than the 200W of the 6950. So the 880 MHz clock can be maintained at a higher level more consistently than the 800MHz of the 6950.
12-13-2010, 01:56 PM
hurrdurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerazax

Switch = dual BIOS - mainly to fight cold bug and other things

What I think neliz is trying to say is this:

The TDP limit can be adjusted by a slider (+/- certain %)and the card adjusts core clock to keep card within the TDP limit (note: not heat, but TDP). The core clock is also the limit of how high the card will clock. That is, if you set TDP to +20% to 240W, but core clock is maintained at 800 MHz, the card will just stay flat at 800MHz at all times. However, adjust it to 900 MHz, and the card will run at 900MHz as long as it is within the TDP limit of 240W you set.

Example: With higher TDP limit, the core clock can be maintained higher - hence the chart shows that at +10% power, the core clock can be maintained at 800 MHz evenly.

To go above 800, you still have to OC the card - and you can adjust the TDP as well to maintain it if you want.

It feels like... turbo core for GPUs

Interesting stuff! It makes 2 x CaymanXT's feasible for 6990 since you can play around with power...

Yeah, that's what I got from his messages as well.

So an all-default HD6970 is not actually an all-default HD6970, because it goes down from its default clocks at some times.
12-13-2010, 01:58 PM
generics_user

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurrdurr

Yeah, that's what I got from his messages as well.

So an all-default HD6970 is not actually an all-default HD6970, because it goes down from its default clocks at some times.

just like gtx 570 and 580 :yepp:
12-13-2010, 02:00 PM
hurrdurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by generics_user

just like gtx 570 and 580 :yepp:

They do too? I don't think so... except Furmark?

Oh, so you mean AMD's TDP thing enters the equation only during such benchmarks, and not games, right?
12-13-2010, 02:00 PM
generics_user

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerazax

Switch = dual BIOS - mainly to fight cold bug and other things

What I think neliz is trying to say is this:

The TDP limit can be adjusted by a slider (+/- certain %)and the card adjusts core clock to keep card within the TDP limit (note: not heat, but TDP). The core clock is also the limit of how high the card will clock. That is, if you set TDP to +20% to 240W, but core clock is maintained at 800 MHz, the card will just stay flat at 800MHz at all times. However, adjust it to 900 MHz, and the card will run at 900MHz as long as it is within the TDP limit of 240W you set.

Example: With higher TDP limit, the core clock can be maintained higher - hence the chart shows that at +10% power, the core clock can be maintained at 800 MHz evenly.

To go above 800, you still have to OC the card - and you can adjust the TDP as well to maintain it if you want.

It feels like... turbo core for GPUs

Interesting stuff! It makes 2 x CaymanXT's feasible for 6990 since you can play around with power...

edit: I also think this is where the difference between 6970 and 6950 lies too. 6970 is at 880 MHz which is 10% higher clock than 6950. But its max TDP is allegedly set at 250W, or 25% more than the 200W of the 6950. So the 880 MHz clock can be maintained at a higher level more consistently than the 800MHz of the 6950.

difference is SPs and clock, i'm sure that 6950 isn't going ot throttle more than 6970 in power-draining apps

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurrdurr

They do too? I don't think so... except Furmark?

Oh, so you mean AMD's TDP thing enters the equation only during such benchmarks, and not games, right?

yes i think that it's going to throttle in such benchmarks, everything else doesn't make sense
12-13-2010, 02:05 PM
zerazax

Quote:

Originally Posted by generics_user

difference is SPs and clock, i'm sure that 6950 isn't going ot throttle more than 6970 in power-draining apps

No... the 6970 is rated at 250W max apparently. Just going off that slide, you can see that in Perlin Noise, 6950 is 650<->800MHz at stock TDP limit. Once upped 10% to 220W, it runs consistently at 800 MHz.

The 250W limit of 6970 allows it to run up much higher at reference. In other words, the 6970 should have no problem maintaining at least 800MHz at all times with a 250W limit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurrdurr

They do too? I don't think so... except Furmark?

Oh, so you mean AMD's TDP thing enters the equation only during such benchmarks, and not games, right?

Quote:

yes i think that it's going to throttle in such benchmarks, everything else doesn't make sense

No, this apparently is set by AMD Overdrive or some new software, and will apply to everything

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/928/fot023.jpg
12-13-2010, 02:05 PM
SpuTnicK

Here is the Nvidia dual-GPU Monster to kick AMD HD 6990 but:
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4...adualfermi.jpg
;)
12-13-2010, 02:05 PM
flyck

Quote:

Originally Posted by generics_user

difference is SPs and clock, i'm sure that 6950 isn't going ot throttle more than 6970 in power-draining apps

yes i think that it's going to throttle in such benchmarks, everything else doesn't make sense

nope it will be in everything. and that would make sense. It will give most users a lower power consumption by not using power they do not need. Which is basically fantastic. The only thing which would be better if you could use it with profiles or fps based. e.g. max 100fps and adjust power on that.

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