AMD Phenom II Review Thread

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Originally Posted by justapost

Would you guys recommend reading this thread? Or is it a battle zone? Oh saw the word suck in previous post. gotta go. ;)

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So does "doesn't suck" count?

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Proved wrong? Many said Phenom 2 would be faster the benchmarks have spoken. Folks calling them out in a thread about benchmark results shouldn't have others calling for Censorship and only allowing Propaganda.

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I don't mean proven wrong about general performance. On that aspect, I thought we all had a good idea well before launch with all the leaked benchmarks. I just meant one person offers a negative bit of info, other person links back, and it goes back and forth, with neither party really paying attention, just looking for one piece of information to fight back with. The guys who said it would be faster, even when there was semi-legitimate benchmarks being leaked are obviously a little biased. Again, I wasn't discussing the performance in general, just commenting on the benchmark-bouts some of the users had(myself included with the power statistics).

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Originally Posted by Caveman787

Don't wanna de rail the thread more (not like its possible it's now an i5 discussion...).

But is ondie pcie better or worse then qpi or will it not make much of a difference?

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It gonna be the same give or take. There just wont be any 3-4 x16 slots etc. There will only be 16 lanes avaliable for graphics.

How is i5 gonna be cheaper? won't it still use ddr3 and need a new mobo that's not compatible with i7.

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Originally Posted by ryboto

I don't mean proven wrong about general performance. On that aspect, I thought we all had a good idea well before launch with all the leaked benchmarks. I just meant one person offers a negative bit of info, other person links back, and it goes back and forth, with neither party really paying attention, just looking for one piece of information to fight back with. The guys who said it would be faster, even when there was semi-legitimate benchmarks being leaked are obviously a little biased. Again, I wasn't discussing the performance in general, just commenting on the benchmark-bouts some of the users had(myself included with the power statistics).

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I agree more than I disagree with you here. Same here, I wished it was about the realitive merrits of Real world vs Synthetic or etc... Speculation about how much better Phenom 2 will do with DDR3 over its current DDR2 results. Some here seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. They say upgrade is good but not biggie since the can use their current AM2+ board. Some of the same folks are then saying AM3 will improve things.

Example, someone brings up price. Why can't just person A say fine if person B thinks the price is OK. But then Person A shouldn't be flamed for thinking it costs too much?

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Originally Posted by rk7p5

How is i5 gonna be cheaper? won't it still use ddr3 and need a new mobo that's not compatible with i7.

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The cheapest i7 board now (GB-UD3R) is right now at 180€, but still uses a 8 layer board, X58+ICH10R and has SLI certificate.

Remove all that and your below 120€. :p:

The stupid SLI certificate alone adds 10-15€. (GA DS4 vs GA UD4P, they are exactly the same boards but the DS4 comes without SLI is ~15€ cheaper) :down:

On the other hand i would like to see some beefier AM2+/AM3 boards. (VRM wise)

Cause the cheapest X58 have 8 phases for cpu and the cheapest P45 have 6 phases, compared to 5 on the topend AM2+ boards. :(

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

I agree more than I disagree with you here. Same here, I wished it was about the realitive merrits of Real world vs Synthetic or etc... Speculation about how much better Phenom 2 will do with DDR3 over its current DDR2 results. Some here seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. They say upgrade is good but not biggie since the can use their current AM2+ board. Some of the same folks are then saying AM3 will improve things.

Example, someone brings up price. Why can't just person A say fine if person B thinks the price is OK. But then Person A shouldn't be flamed for thinking it costs too much?

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You're of course right in that way that some seem to be pounding the "it's more economic to buy a PII than a completely new platform" and at the same time want to wait for the DDR3 performance but at the same time; when the AM3 platform is introduced the prices will probably be lower and AM3 motherboards will probably not be as expensive as the Intel X58 counterparts.

Besides, this thread has completely gone off track as so many other AMD threads. Not even in the AMD forum the threads are sacred from the Intel bashing from some users. Most people said that PII performance would be on par with C2Q ~9400-9600. But some pro-Intel users claim that all AMD-fans were claiming i7 performance.

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Originally Posted by marten_larsson

You're of course right in that way that some seem to be pounding the "it's more economic to buy a PII than a completely new platform" and at the same time want to wait for the DDR3 performance but at the same time; when the AM3 platform is introduced the prices will probably be lower and AM3 motherboards will probably not be as expensive as the Intel X58 counterparts.

Besides, this thread has completely gone off track as so many other AMD threads. Not even in the AMD forum the threads are sacred from the Intel bashing from some users. Most people said that PII performance would be on par with C2Q ~9400-9600. But some pro-Intel users claim that all AMD-fans were claiming i7 performance.

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Absolutely QFT and I'm glad someone gets it:up: IMHO, Phenom doesn't have to regain the speed crown, it needs to keep AMD solidly in the Game. Even though it wasn't as fast, I think it did well enough. I'd also hoped that AMD would have shipped all of the AM2 and AM3 models simultaneously. So then that upgrade path would look a lot better. Some could keep their old boards while others could just start out completely new!

So yes, let's get the thread back on topic then:up: I wish someone would go back and do just what the other guy did but broke into at least 3 categories:
1. Real World
2. Games
3. Synthetic

Then we could get a better idea of what the Benchmarks results are really showing.

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Originally Posted by jmke

i went through a nice collection of reviews yesterday, put all the scores in one big pile and came up with this result chart, compared to the Phenom II X4 940

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I'm assuming in your meta review you included every test made? A. all completely synthetic benchmarks (sandra, everest) b. GPU limited games c. other corner cases somehow bottle-necked? (specviewperf gpu, etc)
What about duplicate results?

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

So you're incable of answering a simple question or expressing your views on that question beyond that of a 10 year old? I feel kind of sorry for ya, I know you're hurt, disappointed and maybe suffering from depression over the results of the Ph2 spanking. So I'll not lash out back at you:up:

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Watch your langauge a bit though, let me try and get the point to your brains again:rolleyes:

You were pointing to people once again while screaming fanboy while the obvious was being pointed out:rolleyes: So if you just cant keep up with the level in said thread and go on the fanboy route, what do you expect me to do? Say you're completely right and I should throw my self infront of a car right now then?

Whether I feel hurt? Do we go again? What should I be hurt about? First off, any piece of hardware is just hardware. Unless someone throws a piece of hardware out of a plain and the corner of it hits me, no piece of hardware is hurting me emotionally or physically, do you understand? Regarding results, Ive no idea what you're on about. PhII does better than Agena and clocks a whole lot higher, obviously I missed the spanking part as well:shrug:. Hell, I think it's like the best product for 2009 already:up: Lets skip the rest and go to 2010:cool:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

When 939 + 4400+ + 1GB of DDR1 sold for about $975. There's a thread here talking about the $644 4400+, $180 DDR1 RAM and $146 board. If you can't do it by hand, use a calculator? Then if AM3 is going to show an improvement, you'll buy another board and DDR3 anyway. Extra costs you left out or phailed to mention.

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Whoa! How many years was this ago? 3~4 years or so right?

Maybe you missed the most important things I told, but Ill repeat them;
I do not think buying a high-end CPU is worth it unless it features something relevant for a normal price
DDR could fit in any DDR compatible board, thus as well in 939 boards. Core i7 needs special DDR3 so if you already owned DDR3, you would have to buy it again;
Where do I find a top notch i7 board for 146$? Right.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Please explain how you got "stupid" and "Grow up" out of that? Is an i7 940 not worth its price while 3800+ or 4400+ was? Is the Ph2 940 Worth its price relevant to the others? Performance to price of the Ph2 was why that came up.

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As Ive already said multiple times, they weren't worth the price. At least, not on release for a while.

However, I do not get your point where PhII 940BE might be not worth it. It features an unlocked multiplier over it's only and previous tier for 40 Euro more. Although the unlocked multiplier might not be needed, no one is falling over 40 Euro:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Then since you repeated what I'd already said, maybe you didn't understand?

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I did understand your post a full 100% mate, only you didnt get the point where 'Fanboi Banter' was inappropriate and just irrelevant BS.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Under lined is the Fanboi banter I mentioned. Back in the 939 days one FX55 and or FX62 sold for more than the i7 940, 6GB of DDR3 1333 RAM and the motherboard all combind. It's like you're posting while drunk or something. Phenom 2 is over priced when compared to Core 2Q and ain't even in the same class as i7 as even Kyle pointed out. It should be cheaper since it doesn't perform as well. Yes, as Pet North and others pointed out almost 4 years ago, you do get what you pay for. Compared to those bad old days when X2 ruled, you get a great deal either way:up:

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Did it occur to you that a FX CPU is the same class as a XE CPU and not just a high-end CPU?

I mean, you can get like a 4GB DDR1200, PhII 940BE, DFI 790FXB-M2RSH and a Gainward HD4870X2 (or if you want so a GTX295) for the price of a i7 965. Whoa, what a stupid comparison:shakes:

And if you think PhII is overpriced, yeah, what do you expect me to say? No one puts a gun on your head and orders you to get it anyway:rolleyes: I just dont get the point where it would be overpriced or anything but it's certainly your opinion, I ain't going to interfere in that.

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Originally Posted by Shintai

i5 is in core terms exactly as i7. Just 1 lower bin as max (3066 or 2933). They all got HT, turbomode, ondie PCIe instead of X58 chipset and dualchannel instead of tripple. i5 should bring very heavy pricedrops to both Core 2 Quad and Phenom 2. Platform cost for i5 will also be much cheaper than Core 2/Phenom 2.

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Well, what I basicly meant was as that you said i7 is a byproduct, i5 is more like a improved byproduct:p: But, yeah, Ive heard prices are going to be cheap so Im quite curious how that will go. But as said, 9 months to go, time will tell.

AMD has only two ways to go, lets see which road they pick:confused:

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Originally Posted by eleeter

Who cares? Why would you buy a quad core and then run @1280x1024 anyway?

Besides, the average STEAM user has a pretty pathetic system.

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see thats all i am saying. i say whoever is running 1024x768 won't be concerned with getting a quad core or maybe even a dual core. suddenly zucker flips out and feels the need to bash me just because i have no way to prove it this time. this is the phenom II review thread. anyone in this thread that is actually concerned with the results and are thinking of buying it for gaming are not running 1024x768. so just letting you know zucker before you bash me you might want to think about what you are doing and saying because that hasn't been the case.

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

The cheapest i7 board now (GB-UD3R) is right now at 180€, but still uses a 8 layer board, X58+ICH10R and has SLI certificate.

Remove all that and your below 120€. :p:

The stupid SLI certificate alone adds 10-15€. (GA DS4 vs GA UD4P, they are exactly the same boards but the DS4 comes without SLI is ~15€ cheaper) :down:

On the other hand i would like to see some beefier AM2+/AM3 boards. (VRM wise)

Cause the cheapest X58 have 8 phases for cpu and the cheapest P45 have 6 phases, compared to 5 on the topend AM2+ boards. :(

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All the current 790gx mobos clock PII just fine. I guess they don't need 8 phases since PII doesn't use as much power as agena or i7. :up:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

Cause the cheapest X58 have 8 phases for cpu and the cheapest P45 have 6 phases, compared to 5 on the topend AM2+ boards. :(

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Actually I believe my MSI x58 Platinum only has 5 phase power.

Anyone know when new AMD motherboards are coming out? The current ones seem pretty far behind the intel ones...

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Originally Posted by rk7p5

How is i5 gonna be cheaper? won't it still use ddr3 and need a new mobo that's not compatible with i7.

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Some people here transitioned from EDO RAM to SDRAM to DDR to DDR2 and now are prepared to go DDR3.
Can people stop :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing about RAM being to expensive ? In 3 months time it will be as cheap as DDR2 albeit with higher performance.

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Originally Posted by savantu

Some people here transitioned from EDO RAM to SDRAM to DDR to DDR2 and now are prepared to go DDR3.
Can people stop :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing about RAM being to expensive ? In 3 months time it will be as cheap as DDR2 albeit with higher performance.

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is people didn't care about the costs of anything then why don't amd and intel just make their cpus cost about $10000? if the ram is expensive then the platform is expensive. because amd offers both memory controllers on one chip it allows you to upgrade to ddr3 when you want to. right now ddr3 is expensive later when it is as cheap as ddr2 then it won't matter anymore. i will be getting a phenom 945 but i am not upgrading to ddr3 until at least when rd890 and sb800 come out when i actually have to buy a new board.

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

is people didn't care about the costs of anything then why don't amd and intel just make their cpus cost about $10000? if the ram is expensive then the platform is expensive. because amd offers both memory controllers on one chip it allows you to upgrade to ddr3 when you want to. right now ddr3 is expensive later when it is as cheap as ddr2 then it won't matter anymore. i will be getting a phenom 945 but i am not upgrading to ddr3 until at least when rd890 and sb800 come out when i actually have to buy a new board.

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Well said :clap:

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Originally Posted by rk7p5

All the current 790gx mobos clock PII just fine. I guess they don't need 8 phases since PII doesn't use as much power as agena or i7. :up:

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Im not sure about that, i dont like the fact that i read about several dead boards in the amd section. You dont read about that in the intel section, that a board died of to much voltage.

I rather pay a little extra and be save then sorry. :p:

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Originally Posted by highoctane

Actually I believe my MSI x58 Platinum only has 5 phase power.

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MSI use other VRMs (Integrated Driver Mosfet-> there 5 phases equal to 10 analogue phases from GB/Asus ;) )


edit:
Woot just checked there website and there 790GX board uses DrMOS. Nice thats the only board i would consider to buy and the M3A79-T Deluxe, but its only a 790FX board. :up:

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Originally Posted by rk7p5

All the current 790gx mobos clock PII just fine. I guess they don't need 8 phases since PII doesn't use as much power as agena or i7. :up:

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You could run an i7 with 2 phases if you liked. Got nothing to do with power consumption. More phases=more finetune for overclockers aswell as more stable supply. But also larger inefficiency.

You would also be amazed I guess on how few phases most server MBs got...

This one is 6 phases for example:
http://www.rackmountpro.com/imagevie...LUS.jpg&type=0

Intels own Smackover X58 board is 6 phases aswell. Asus T6T is 4 phases I think. Asus TEB-D is 5 phases. Flextronics TX65H is 5. MSI MS9199 is 3 or 4.

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

Im not sure about that, i dont like the fact that i read about several dead boards in the amd section. You dont read about that in the intel section, that a board died of to much voltage.

I rather pay a little extra and be save then sorry. :p:



MSI use other VRMs (Integrated Driver Mosfet-> there 5 phases equal to 10 analogue phases from GB/Asus ;) )


edit:
Woot just checked there website and there 790GX board uses DrMOS. Nice thats the only board i would consider to buy and the M3A79-T Deluxe, but its only a 790FX board. :up:

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That was sb600 boards, i haven't heard of any sb750 dying. Anyone can get a defective mobo, maybe that's what you're thinking of.

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Originally Posted by rk7p5

That was sb600 boards, i haven't heard of any sb750 dying. Anyone can get a defective mobo, maybe that's what you're thinking of.

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Defective mobos dont blow after ocing. Maybe the build quality increased for the SB750 boards which is a good thing.

Im not quite familiar with the new SB750 boards, since most of them are only around for 1 and half month. :)

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Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

Watch your langauge a bit though, let me try and get the point to your brains again:rolleyes:

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WOW, you're doing it and you tell me to watch mine?

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Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

You were pointing to people once again while screaming fanboy while the obvious was being pointed out:rolleyes: So if you just cant keep up with the level in said thread and go on the fanboy route, what do you expect me to do? Say you're completely right and I should throw my self infront of a car right now then?

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Back on topic please, what you're posting makes NO sense.

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Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

Whether I feel hurt? Do we go again? What should I be hurt about? First off, any piece of hardware is just hardware. Unless someone throws a piece of hardware out of a plain and the corner of it hits me, no piece of hardware is hurting me emotionally or physically, do you understand? Regarding results, Ive no idea what you're on about. PhII does better than Agena and clocks a whole lot higher, obviously I missed the spanking part as well:shrug:. Hell, I think it's like the best product for 2009 already:up: Lets skip the rest and go to 2010:cool:

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Please calm down and get back on topic or leave the thread? You're wayyyyyy too emotional. Thread is about AMD Phenom reviews and posters are posting their views on the results of those reviews. Not about 2010 or even how Agena clocks.

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Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

Whoa! How many years was this ago? 3~4 years or so right?

Maybe you missed the most important things I told, but Ill repeat them;
I do not think buying a high-end CPU is worth it unless it features something relevant for a normal price DDR could fit in any DDR compatible board, thus as well in 939 boards. Core i7 needs special DDR3 so if you already owned DDR3, you would have to buy it again;

Where do I find a top notch i7 board for 146$? Right.

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Please read slower and I said you could use a calculator if you can't count. You don't need to spend $644 for either the i7 920 or 940. In both cases, that's more than the i7 Processor and Motherboard. That's why I asked if you'd been drinking? I said the FX-55 sold for more than i940, 6GB of DDR3 and even a $300 motherboard. I'd said maybe you weren't building computers then and didn't know the Prices, that's the only other rational explanation.

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Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

As Ive already said multiple times, they weren't worth the price. At least, not on release for a while.

However, I do not get your point where PhII 940BE might be not worth it. It features an unlocked multiplier over it's only and previous tier for 40 Euro more. Although the unlocked multiplier might not be needed, no one is falling over 40 Euro:rolleyes:


I did understand your post a full 100% mate, only you didnt get the point where 'Fanboi Banter' was inappropriate and just irrelevant BS.

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Look at what I quoted, you said it, not I. As you said long ago, overclocking is not a given, remember? I'd not spend money dependent solely on over clocking. Then I said AM3 might be a better buy. Please explain how that's bashing of AMD? I know AMD fans saying the very same thing. That straight from the review/s.

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Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

Did it occur to you that a FX CPU is the same class as a XE CPU and not just a high-end CPU?

I mean, you can get like a 4GB DDR1200, PhII 940BE, DFI 790FXB-M2RSH and a Gainward HD4870X2 (or if you want so a GTX295) for the price of a i7 965. Whoa, what a stupid comparison:shakes:

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Not when the bottom of the line was still selling for $350 to $379 and others went for $644, $850 and then the $1000+ models. How long have you been buying computer parts? Who needs to buy i7 965 when the i7 940 does the "Wild Thang" to the 940BE? That's the point of folks not agreeing with you in this thread. It is NOT off topic that after all of the reviews folks talking about the price of the i7 965 seems disingenuous. That makes it sound like you need an i965 to out do a Phenom 2 940BE, get it? Of course you don't but please at least try.

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Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

And if you think PhII is overpriced, yeah, what do you expect me to say? No one puts a gun on your head and orders you to get it anyway:rolleyes: I just dont get the point where it would be overpriced or anything but it's certainly your opinion, I ain't going to interfere in that.

Well, what I basicly meant was as that you said i7 is a byproduct, i5 is more like a improved byproduct:p: But, yeah, Ive heard prices are going to be cheap so Im quite curious how that will go. But as said, 9 months to go, time will tell.

AMD has only two ways to go, lets see which road they pick:confused:

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Nope and no one puts a gun to your head for you to irrationally defend AMD. Then you and others expect Marketing propaganda simply because the thread has AMD in the title.

donnie please stop posting or if you are going to post stop being a fanboy about it. you may think you are posting and making sense but it doesn't make sense to anyone else with a clear mind.

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

donnie please stop posting or if you are going to post stop being a fanboy about it. you may think you are posting and making sense but it doesn't make sense to anyone else with a clear mind.

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Of course you don't have a "clear mind":rofl: It's tinted AMD Green!

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Of course you don't have a "clear mind":rofl: It's tinted AMD Green!

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thats actually just the color of my leds, sorry. every post you make is biased towards intel.