AMD Phenom II and Dragon Preview Event - Invite Only

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12-13-2008, 04:03 PM
biohead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo²

How many pins are going to have the AM3 chips? 938? 936? If am2+ deneb have all 940 pins... well there is the answer. If AM3 sockets get all 940 holes it will be posible to fit this special am2+ denebs AND ALL AM2 chips too! i don´t think so! So AM3 will have less holes and AM3 chips will have less pins, that way they can fit in AM2+ boards but not the other way. Of course someone can try to cut those pins in AM2+ Deneb and see what happens. :D

:rolleyes: it's not about pins, it's about DRAM compatibility.
12-13-2008, 04:13 PM
Voodoo²

I know that is about memory compatibility but I am talking about mechanical compatibility to be sure about how memory compatibility will be. It´s simple, if you have a Am2+ deneb count the pins, if there are 940 pins, that´s all you need to know. It will not work in AM3 boards.
12-13-2008, 07:09 PM
Jazzman

i7 965 system vs Phenom II 940 BE Crysis Comparison

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnJoY

.....Lastly, it's important to mention that in the Core i7 965 system vs Phenom II 940 BE Crysis comparison, I was able to verify that both systems were running the exact same graphical settings, with the same cards. Phenom II had 4GB of ram, dual channel while the Core i7 had 3GB in triple channel on an X58 Intel reference board. The Phenom II had higher frame rates throughout the majority of the gameplay.

I believe the above comparison was run at a resolution of 1900x1080. What I can't understand is how the Phenom II runing a dual channel system could possibly beat the i7. Gosh has argued that AMD in general has a leg in bandwidth but his comments caused a thread to be locked down. I don't know what to think ... If the comparison result is true what could possibly account for this? :shrug:
12-13-2008, 07:50 PM
Slovnaft

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzman

I believe the above comparison was run at a resolution of 1900x1080. What I can't understand is how the Phenom II runing a dual channel system could possibly beat the i7. Gosh has argued that AMD in general has a leg in bandwidth but his comments caused a thread to be locked down. I don't know what to think ... If the comparison result is true what could possibly account for this? :shrug:

doesn't AMD have some kind of hybrid crossfire with the onboard gpu?
so the amd setup has 4870+790gx (i think it's a 3 series chip?)
i didn't really get to this demo so i can't comment. I was too busy with the phase unit they had set up! was able to do 4.7-.8 at 1.45v around -48 , seems these chips will love cold.

a great time was had by all and it was a lot of fun meeting you guys.
12-13-2008, 08:09 PM
Raybo

Quote:

Originally Posted by chew*

I think they were going to update it here but its the weekend and these guys are probably pooped from traveling all week.

http://www.mogulus.com/amdunprocessed

You have been a big help in the past chew*, now you are continuing to do great work!

Thanks for sticking to your guns.

Ray
12-13-2008, 08:19 PM
charged3800z24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slovnaft

doesn't AMD have some kind of hybrid crossfire with the onboard gpu?
so the amd setup has 4870+790gx (i think it's a 3 series chip?)
i didn't really get to this demo so i can't comment. I was too busy with the phase unit they had set up! was able to do 4.7-.8 at 1.45v around -48 , seems these chips will love cold.

a great time was had by all and it was a lot of fun meeting you guys.

Hibrid only works on low end 3000 series GPU's...Trust me, It wasn't even an option with my 790GX board and the 4850....
12-13-2008, 08:22 PM
charged3800z24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzman

I believe the above comparison was run at a resolution of 1900x1080. What I can't understand is how the Phenom II runing a dual channel system could possibly beat the i7. Gosh has argued that AMD in general has a leg in bandwidth but his comments caused a thread to be locked down. I don't know what to think ... If the comparison result is true what could possibly account for this? :shrug:

I ran the CPU bench mark several times and noticed it is only using max 50% of the Phenom I have. So it can't be scaling ...maybe 4870 and 790GX / 790FX and Phenom II (Dragon) actually run like a be-atch together...I dunno
12-13-2008, 09:04 PM
G0ldBr1ck

Thanks for all the great Info guys :up:

Im surprised to see by what you guys have said that AMD intends for Phenom II to be a competitor to I7.
12-13-2008, 09:18 PM
chew*

There is only 2 logical explantions for this and the latter being more feasible. Either there is more than just a 10% ipc performance increasement or.......AMD is really pushing the "dragon platform" so when you pair all the required equipment for a platform to meet dragon platform requirements it gets a boost in performance possibly due to optimizations of this specific platform maybe through drivers, bios etc etc.

As far as the am2+ compatibility of phenom 2 in am3 like i said don't shoot the messenger, I had mentioned to a certain someone at the event that it kind of seemed pointless to even make an am2+ variant in the form of an end of life product that would not be compatible with am3 and why not just release am3 chips only if backward compatible, his comment was who said that, i mentioned reading it all over the net, he said it was a rumour and that am2+ phenomII would work fine in am3 however am3 was even more of an improvement over am2+ phenom II.

Me personally I am waiting for am3 and I said as much, we shall see how my choice pays off.

For those interested this is the board that they were using for the intel comparison. All 3 blue banks were populated and bios confirmed triple channel configuration was enabled as well as turbo, hypertreading and oll that other stuff....etc it wasn't handicapped other than being in a board without alot of bling.......
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813121361
It used this cpu.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115200

I also noticed another rumour going around that they were only overclocking one core......its a rumour.
12-14-2008, 10:20 AM
Jazzman

Quote:

Originally Posted by chew*

There is only 2 logical explantions for this and the latter being more feasible. Either there is more than just a 10% ipc performance increasement or.......AMD is really pushing the "dragon platform" so when you pair all the required equipment for a platform to meet dragon platform requirements it gets a boost in performance possibly due to optimizations of this specific platform maybe through drivers, bios etc etc.

I tend to think your latter explanation is the reason for Phenom II performance besting i7 in this comparison. I hope so because it is the main reason I chose AMD over Intel. I have been drawn to the AMD integration of CPU, Memory, GPU, and Chipset. If the Bios and GPU drivers are optimized and the CPU + GPU + Memory + Chipset are optimized then you have a compeling answer to the technical superiority of any "one" element in an Intel/nVidia computing solution. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts so to speak.

BTW Chew, I very much appreciate you unbiased reporting of the Boston AMD event, and I regret some of my comments regarding an Intel bias. I see now that you are a truth seeker like most of us here. I apologize for any hard feelings.
12-14-2008, 01:06 PM
chew*

No problem.

I will admit i have a bias towards ati over nvidia though namely because every past nvidia card I have had and my friends have had has died, my 9700, 2 9800's still work to this very day as well as my x1800xt's flashed to pe and my 1900xt flashed to xtx. All have been massively abused. NF4 was the final straw.
12-14-2008, 05:08 PM
taurus_sel

Hey Chew*, since you were there and saw. How much better is a core i7 for Xfire/SLI? A well known Dr. without a Ph.D is telling us here that i7 is obviously best. And he's been to promise land and he's seen everything. :rofl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by chew*

There is only 2 logical explantions for this and the latter being more feasible. Either there is more than just a 10% ipc performance increasement or.......AMD is really pushing the "dragon platform" so when you pair all the required equipment for a platform to meet dragon platform requirements it gets a boost in performance possibly due to optimizations of this specific platform maybe through drivers, bios etc etc.

As far as the am2+ compatibility of phenom 2 in am3 like i said don't shoot the messenger, I had mentioned to a certain someone at the event that it kind of seemed pointless to even make an am2+ variant in the form of an end of life product that would not be compatible with am3 and why not just release am3 chips only if backward compatible, his comment was who said that, i mentioned reading it all over the net, he said it was a rumour and that am2+ phenomII would work fine in am3 however am3 was even more of an improvement over am2+ phenom II.

Me personally I am waiting for am3 and I said as much, we shall see how my choice pays off.

For those interested this is the board that they were using for the intel comparison. All 3 blue banks were populated and bios confirmed triple channel configuration was enabled as well as turbo, hypertreading and oll that other stuff....etc it wasn't handicapped other than being in a board without alot of bling.......
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813121361
It used this cpu.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115200

I also noticed another rumour going around that they were only overclocking one core......its a rumour.
12-14-2008, 06:15 PM
chew*

There was no comparison of sli/xfire on either platforms.

If I had to guess the entire platform as a whole with the least bottleneck is going to have the performance advantage In heavliy load quadfire, quad sli applications.

Which that will be I have no clue not really a fan of dual gpu solutions namely due to support issues.
12-14-2008, 06:28 PM
BurgerTime

Quote:

Originally Posted by taurus_sel

Hey Chew*, since you were there and saw. How much better is a core i7 for Xfire/SLI? A well known Dr. without a Ph.D is telling us here that i7 is obviously best. And he's been to promise land and he's seen everything. :rofl:

Easy now, that sort of talk about Olympic athlete doctors can get you banned pronto.
12-14-2008, 06:56 PM
roofsniper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slovnaft

doesn't AMD have some kind of hybrid crossfire with the onboard gpu?
so the amd setup has 4870+790gx (i think it's a 3 series chip?)
i didn't really get to this demo so i can't comment. I was too busy with the phase unit they had set up! was able to do 4.7-.8 at 1.45v around -48 , seems these chips will love cold.

a great time was had by all and it was a lot of fun meeting you guys.

i wish you could do hybrid crossfire with a 4870. im still waiting for the day that you can xfire a 3870 and a 4870. its probably way too late for that but there was hope in the past.
12-14-2008, 08:24 PM
demonkevy666

so will I ever see TRI SLI on phenom II ? since i clocks better.
I haven't ever seen test on it with phenom I in sli or tri sli yet lol
12-14-2008, 08:29 PM
MasterYoda34

Probably have to get a 780a board :down: .

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131292
12-14-2008, 08:37 PM
Dami3n

Quote:

Originally Posted by roofsniper

i wish you could do hybrid crossfire with a 4870.

I want that too, but not for the performance boost. I want a chipset with igp that can put my 4870 in stand by mode in 2d, using only the integrated chip. Would be great for power consumption and temperatures.
12-15-2008, 01:17 AM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by biohead

:rolleyes: it's not about pins, it's about DRAM compatibility.

it is about pins an their position ;) or to be more precise it's about holes and "islands" in the AM3 socket
12-15-2008, 08:01 AM
demonkevy666

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterYoda34

Probably have to get a 780a board :down: .

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131292

what's with the thumbs down ?........that board is horrible overpriced..... foxconn destroyer is better in multiple ways, and the one I had in mind.
12-15-2008, 08:38 AM
MasterYoda34

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonkevy666

what's with the thumbs down ?........that board is horrible overpriced..... foxconn destroyer is better in multiple ways, and the one I had in mind.

I was saying thumbs down to 780a in general. Its more expensive than 790GX/FX and its not as good for OCing. It annoying that nvidia continues to make us purchase their motherboards to run SLI even when they don't have decent/competitive boards available.
12-15-2008, 09:29 AM
Chad Boga

Quote:

Originally Posted by cegras

Dr.Who expressed skepticism at AMD's claims and had a cherry picked i7 overclocked over 5 ghz by fugger just to show that intel is good too. That's the gist of it. Presumably he didn't get reprimanded because he was the one giving out free samples.

And what would or could he have been reprimanded for?
12-15-2008, 09:48 AM
MrMojoZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Boga

And what would or could he have been reprimanded for?

He was trolling posts in the AMD forum with the direct intention of stirring up AMD vs. Intel arguments.

Sometimes that is against forum rules.
12-15-2008, 09:53 AM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

He was trolling posts in the AMD forum with the direct intention of stirring up AMD vs. Intel arguments.

Sometimes that is against forum rules.

And it's later shown that Phenom II samples at the event wasn't special and didn't have "disabled thermal diode" like he suggested...
But let's not go there anymore and stay on topic.
12-15-2008, 10:07 AM
spursindonesia

Yeah, that's why i only respect words coming from Blauhung if he can be considered as a sort of unofficial Intel rep around this part. He always stand up and explain stuffs regarding Intel processor and its technicality, but not going overboard by badmouthing competitors, as far as i can see. He doesn't behave embarassingly like a certain person "who" claimed as an Intel employee, acting as a goodwill ambassador to the OCing community in this forum. He made claims he can't back up regarding competitor, spreading FUD along the way, and can't seem to understand what a concept of humility is really.

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