Laing DDC pump repair PCB mod

FYI, I tested the Toshiba PCB on Bmaverick's DDC-1 he sent over. It is slightly more powerful than the Sanyo version, but not quite the extreme of the DDC3 install. It is more noisy though, so as a personal preference, I would go with the Sanyo for the better noise quality on DDC-1 pumps.

Also of some interesting note: The Toshiba on a DDC-1 is extremely efficient. Darn near hit 29% efficiency which is probably the best to date on any pump I've tested. As you can also see, the Sanyo consumes about the same power as the Toshiba yet produces less pumping power.

In the end, the Toshiba produces more pumping power and more electrically efficient, but the Sanyo is more silent on a DDC-1. Both provide some gains in pumping power over the Laing controller though.

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Originally Posted by wizard1238

The next project is PWM control the sanyo board, but it's already very silent at 12V, is it need to speed down:confused:

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Any update since im looking to replace my 18w 3.2 burnt pcb ?
Thanks

I don't think the Sanyo can handle DDC3 series pumps. Per the Sanyo tech specs, max current is 1.5 amps. I hit 2.5 amps on the toshiba based DDC3 series pump, so it probably wouldn't work at 12v. Maybe at really low volts, but I think the Toshiba is the only option for DDC3 pumps at 12v, per specs it should handle 2.5 amps and testing seems to support that in short term tests.

More data by Martin has been added since my last visit here. The new charts for comparison are really easy to understand. :) That I like. LOL

I have a few of the rare DDC2 pumps never used, still new. These are more of a collectors interest rather than running them. ;)

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Also of some interesting note: The Toshiba on a DDC-1 is extremely efficient. Darn near hit 29% efficiency which is probably the best to date on any pump I've tested.

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At first glance 29% efficiency sounds pretty horrid lol :rofl:

I have a moded pump using TB6588FG. On PCB there is a revolution reading. Is it really working??

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Originally Posted by Sparky

At first glance 29% efficiency sounds pretty horrid lol :rofl:

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Yeah, small centrifugal pumps are very low in efficiency. A better part of the power consumed is converted to heat. 29% is actually the best I've ever measured though..:D D5's for example are usually half that.

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Originally Posted by mib

I have a moded pump using TB6588FG. On PCB there is a revolution reading. Is it really working??

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Yes, I got it to work, but it's not following the standard fan 2 pulses per revolution (I think it's 6). It's much higher and will give you a reading that is what I presume to be about 3X higher than actual. Some fan controllers will let you correct up for this, but if not you can divide by 3 and be in the ballpark.

I "Assumed" that RPM = Hz x 10 instead of the Hz x 30 normal conversion in this test, but I'm not sure if that's correct or not. It seems reasonable is all.

http://martinsliquidlab.files.wordpr...ddc-1-xspc.png

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Yes, I got it to work, but it's not following the standard fan 2 pulses per revolution (I think it's 6). It's much higher and will give you a reading that is what I presume to be about 3X higher than actual. Some fan controllers will let you correct up for this, but if not you can divide by 3 and be in the ballpark.

I "Assumed" that RPM = Hz x 10 instead of the Hz x 30 normal conversion in this test, but I'm not sure if that's correct or not. It seems reasonable is all.

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In that case it doesn't matter I got team of aquaero and poweradjust 2 and they heve got settings. Thanks for information.

@wizard1238 or anyone,

Do you sell a PCB mod kit that offers a nice speed bump for the MCP35x?

According to your site, it doesn't look like you do yet...
But I'm still interested in knowing whether such a mod. is feasible for the MCP35x.

And if so, soldering it in won't kill the MCP35x's PWM abilities, will it?

I would prefer a pre-assembled option....
But that's probably unlikely until swiftech releases their latest/greatest MCP3xxx!

Finally....
Do you have plans for a heatsink/decoupler for the MCP35x built into the MCR Drive series?

Of course changing the pcb on the MCP 35x would cause it to loose pwm control.

but doesn't the toshiba controller support pwm

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Originally Posted by TJ TRICHEESE

but doesn't the toshiba controller support pwm

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Does it really? Please let it be true! :D
From a pure performance/efficiency stand-point, the Toshiba's considered the best so far, right?

I was hoping if pwm is part of the pcb that's removed, that the ideal pcb one's swapping-in would return that functionality.
I wonder if a removal & a swap-in would be much harder to do on a mcp35x built into the MCR Drive?

Hmm, maybe it's time to go buy a heatgun and a soldering-iron :D

Admittedly I'd prefer someone more experienced to do the job, & I'd pay them for their labour/expenses.
But I doubt that'll be an option....

I have already asked wizard about a pwn and got this response:
Thank you for interesting in our product,sorry for the late reply, no login for few weekthe PWM feature will designed as an external module to connect between the pump and the motherboard.all existing user can enjoy the pwm feature with the module addon.the circuit is desiged, it need some fine tune and reliable test before final release.no ETA yet.

Surely one of the PCB's already has PWM integrated? (ala the mcp35x)
I don't need a "PWM controller" as such, just PWM IC for PWM compatibility.
I'm buying & modding (to some extent) a dedicated PWM controller device.

wizard1238/anyone? (below) Thank-you!

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Originally Posted by TJ TRICHEESE

but doesn't the toshiba controller support pwm

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Does it really? Please let it be true! :D
From a pure performance/efficiency stand-point, the Toshiba's considered the best so far, right?

I was hoping if pwm is part of the pcb that's removed, that the ideal pcb one's swapping-in would return that functionality.
I wonder if a removal & a swap-in would be much harder to do on a mcp35x built into the MCR Drive?

Hmm, maybe it's time to go buy a heatgun and a soldering-iron :D

Admittedly I'd prefer someone more experienced to do the job, & I'd pay them for their labour/expenses.
But I doubt that'll be an option....

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Surely one of the PCB's already has PWM integrated? (ala the mcp35x)
I don't need a "PWM controller" as such, just PWM IC for PWM compatibility.
I'm buying & modding (to some extent) a dedicated PWM controller device.

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I can't find the post now, but he noted that he thought you might get the Toshiba controller to work with PWM if you installed the right resistor/capacitor to convert PWM signal to voltage. Later he noted something about a pwm board he is developing. So I would say it's possible for someone with an electronics background.

I'm not that person..:D so I'd wait until he has the PWM extras or instructions ironed out for us.

Thanks Martin,

Do you know if he plans to integrate that PWM functionality into the PCB boards he's selling in his DIY kits?
I'd personally prefer that much more than some separate, "dongle-like" device.

Even if it tuns out that this is one of the things he's planned...
Decoupling/dampening my MCP35X is going to be trickier than for other MCP35X owners :)

Mine's built into the side of my Rad! (part of the AIO rad/res/pump known as the MCR220 Drive rev.2)
Then again because of the way it's mounted, it may already be decoupled to some extent?

The cooling heatsink (but no lift?) you linked to earlier may still be possible.
I think the hot end of the pump is exposed to the air, not joined to the rad.

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Thanks Martin,

Do you know if he plans to integrate that PWM functionality into the PCB boards he's selling in his DIY kits?
I'd personally prefer that much more than some separate, "dongle-like" device.

Even if it tuns out that this is one of the things he's planned...
Decoupling/dampening my MCP35X is going to be trickier than for other MCP35X owners :)

Mine's built into the side of my Rad! (part of the AIO rad/res/pump known as the MCR220 Drive rev.2)
Then again because of the way it's mounted, it may already be decoupled to some extent?

The cooling heatsink (but no lift?) you linked to earlier may still be possible.
I think the hot end of the pump is exposed to the air, not joined to the rad.

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I'm struggling to find/remember what was said, but I did find the old post he noted on the possible PWM functionality of the Toshiba (I have not tested this myself though):

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Originally Posted by wizard1238

Use motherboard PWM to control the Toshiba PCB modded DDC pump speed seems very simple:D
Only one resistor and capactior can do the trick!
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/617f...e1108b02e4.jpg
anybody have time can test and let us know if it work;)
Reference: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/e...tes/00538c.pdf

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Not sure I understand the 35X comments, you are not going to remove a perfectly good working 35X board are you? I would not do that, I would only use these replacement boards for burned pumps.

The radiator version shouldn't matter other than you'll have more noise issues to deal with than a stand alone pump since the radiator flavor can't be decoupled the same.

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

I'm struggling to find/remember what was said, but I did find the old post he noted on the possible PWM functionality of the Toshiba (I have not tested this myself though):

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Interesting thanks!
Hopefully someone is able to explain how we might enable PWM functionality on one of the PCB's floating about out there!?
I'd be willing to sacrifice my MCP35X, I'll have 2x soon...
But it may be best to give it to someone else to do the mod, as I don't have the gear/experience.

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Not sure I understand the 35X comments, you are not going to remove a perfectly good working 35X board are you? I would not do that, I would only use these replacement boards for burned pumps.

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I'll have a "spare one" soon.... :)
Hasn't it been demonstrated that some of these alternative PCB's offer appreciable performance/efficiency over that used by the 35X?*
Could've sworn I've already read that....

The only big downer so far is that none seem to do PWM, once added we'd have an even better pump than the MCP35X!
For the folk that are prepared to "have a crack" at swapping-in the new PCB themselves of course :)
I'd be prepared to have a go...
Once PWM's integrated & we have a PCB that's proven as better performing & more efficient than the MCP35X's PCB.
And once there's excellent community doco/instructions, & once I have all the gear for the job!

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The radiator version shouldn't matter other than you'll have more noise issues to deal with than a stand alone pump since the radiator flavor can't be decoupled the same.

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RE cooling & de-coupling of the MCP35X (apologies, rest of this is OT)...

I had a closer look at the swiftech site & am double-checking with them.
But I think I'll be able to use their heatsink & fan!? (probably won't bother w/the fan)
Doesn't look like the sound dampener is usable w/the MCRx20 Drive Rev.2 though :(
Still, I'm guessing the way the mcp35x is built into the rad...
Is inherently more dampened than a stand-alone mcp35x, if an owner hasn't bothered w/any dampening?

*when they're all compared at top-speed, which is what non-PWM's always run at of course.

You can implement PWM in the Toshiba controller if you know what you are doing.

http://www.toshiba-components.com/mo...20_080424_.pdf

Check page 6 and 10.

If I have time I will put together a schematic for you that should work, but I have a feeling if you wait 2 weeks or so you won't even have to go through the trouble... ;)

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Hasn't it been demonstrated that some of these alternative PCB's offer appreciable performance/efficiency over that used by the 35X?*

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In raw power the Toshiba is extreme that's for sure, but it doesn't keep up with the Laing DDC3 series PCB in terms of noise. It's more buzzy like the older DDC1/2 pumps are.

Check out the videos, you'll see what I mean.:up:

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Originally Posted by jalyst

RE cooling & de-coupling of the MCP35X (apologies, rest of this is OT)...

I had a closer look at the swiftech site & am double-checking with them.
But I think I'll be able to use their heatsink & fan!? (probably won't bother w/the fan)
Doesn't look like the sound dampener is usable w/the MCRx20 Drive Rev.2 though :(
Still, I'm guessing the way the mcp35x is built into the rad...
Is inherently more dampened than a stand-alone mcp35x, if an owner hasn't bothered w/any dampening?

*when they're all compared at top-speed, which is what non-PWM's always run at of course.

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Yeah, heatsink never hurts, but I think it's most important on higher flows/lower restriction. I'm working on that testing now, but high flows is where heat comes into play.

I also have no personal experience with the Drive series noise levels, I'm just going on the assumption that it's solid mounted and I have see a few threads about noise complaints. The large mass should help to some degree similar to bay reservoirs and large mass there.:up: With PWM, you can mitigate any noise too by control of the speeds.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Zip

<SNIP>, but I have a feeling if you wait 2 weeks or so you won't even have to go through the trouble... ;)

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Sweet! :shocked:
Will someone be selling these PCB's with PWM enabled in 2wks?
Can you elaborate please!

It'll still be tricky removing my current PCB, & soldering-in one of these.
So hopefully there's good guides/doco about (this thread's not too bad)!

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Yeah, heatsink never hurts, but I think it's most important on higher flows/lower restriction. I'm working on that testing now, but high flows is where heat comes into play.

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Cool look forward to reading your findings. :up:

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I also have no personal experience with the Drive series noise levels, I'm just going on the assumption that it's solid mounted and I have see a few threads about noise complaints. The large mass should help to some degree similar to bay reservoirs and large mass there.:up: With PWM, you can mitigate any noise too by control of the speeds.

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Yeah that was my point, the entire MCR drive would act as a dampening mechanism of sorts, like the bay reservoirs.
Of course not ideal, but possibly better than a stand-alone mcp35x, that's had no thought put into it WRT to mounting etc.
And yeah PWM helps too, when swiftech sends you the correct freakin MCRx20 Drive revision! :mad: