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Yep that is the down side.... covering variations etc etc. both by copyright and patent. You have to establish the core basis of the idea and effectively try to copyright the fundamental idea behind it rather than the item itself... which is why the lawyers make so much dosh!
This is a result of the collaboration between baker18 & bowman thru time.Quote:
It's really fascinating to watch this hardware evolve in Bowmans' very capable hands. The new swivel head is a simple but brilliant solution to an important problem.
I brought this issue up to bowman on the phone 3 days ago when we spoke and we discussed it at length.Quote:
It's already been proven that certain large companies monitor this thread and others in here for their R&D. I would not be at all surprised to see these innovations surface in upcoming releases of their product.
Thanks a lot bud.Quote:
well i promised some pics of a baker block modded prommie and here they are...
:D I totally will be. It's what I wanted from the start, just been kind of an evolutionary process, thanks to all bowman's work on this rig. I appreciate all the craftsmanship and agree with Dale that bowman is a craftsman when it comes to this...it's art to him. Baker's blocks are something else too, thanks "R".Quote:
Somebody will be very happy with his new toy...............
Thanks for pointing out Bakers role in this, I didn't realize I hadn't mentioned him. After all.....it's a Baker Block!
Thanks for the support guys.
I would also like to thank "Dagooch" for helping in the design of the new enclosure.
There are more stuff coming so stay tune( GPu enclosure, New CPU evap that can hold 200 watts and for the cascade guys, a custom heat exchanger).
thanks,
baker18
:thumbsup: Waiting patiently ...... :DQuote:
Originally posted by baker18
Thanks for the support guys.
I would also like to thank "Dagooch" for helping in the design of the new enclosure.
There are more stuff coming so stay tune( GPu enclosure, New CPU evap that can hold 200 watts and for the cascade guys, a custom heat exchanger).
thanks,
baker18
yea i dont do any of this for money..like alot of the guys..but hay if they can make a buck or 2, more power to them...:)
and yes i dale and I are close friends ...he knows if he needs something i will be there if needed..
i do like playing with new ideas...
bakers new stuff will be shown as soon as i see them...i like being the guinie pig..LOL:D
as baker and I spoke in lenght yesterday..there lots of new ideas him and DaGooch and working on..
i look forward to the new stuff as i want to get back on my dual evap prom in a alum case.
the 410 modded prom i have is working ok..it just needs a cap tube adjustment,which i need to start on.that in itself will take a while to work out..pressures are staying under 300 so far..but that may change...i have to install and wire a high side safety switch to be sure it is safe...
thats one thing i haven t seen anyone else do on there systems..no safety overides...there are lot of guys posting pics of there new toys...but we all need to consider the safety factor first. and design these with a possable hazzard in mind..
That's why you da man! :toast:Quote:
yea i dont do any of this for money
dito! :toast:Quote:
Originally posted by WxChaser
That's why you da man! :toast:
what does that cup on the evap is made from ?
looking so clean and sharp :D
well you guy proberly know i am waiting to do a reveiw on 2 units mach II gt and a vapo light speed..
but look what i have been playing with a new design...
this was a mach II...but it will be the first of its kind when i am finished....:D
differant view
one more
well incase no one knows..this will be a cpu/gpu evap cooler...in a factory case..with the largest compressor i could stuff in there and a larger condensor...
Very cool! That's what I been waiting to see. :thumbsup:
:toast:
Whoa mad!!
Excellent work, as always, Bowman. :toast:
Do you use old parts or new parts Bowman?
well these all all new componants i am using on this one.
i am waiting on some more baker blocks for the cpu and gpu and i will give it hoses and cap tubes.
it sets now under 200psi while i check for leaks and then i will pull a vacuum and set it aside untill the blocks come in..it will take some work because i am going to try and use the factory chip controller and wire this puppy up as nventiv would..so it should work like a factory mach II.only diff is i will have the factory lcd but also dual lcd evap readouts also.
Mr. Bowman is this the r410 powered unit??
I take it the pressure to be worried about is standing correct as pressure drops while running or an I mistaken here?
Looks very nice and a big jump from the nf9fx to that sc12 monster :)
How loud is that 12 compressor as compared to the 9?
They are preety quiet, im almost sure the fan bowman is using is louder...Quote:
Originally posted by TheDude
How loud is that 12 compressor as compared to the 9?
When can the reveiw be ready for posting ??Quote:
Originally posted by bowman1964
well you guy proberly know i am waiting to do a reveiw on 2 units mach II gt and a vapo light speed..
but look what i have been playing with a new design...
this was a mach II...but it will be the first of its kind when i am finished....:D
Due to the political fallout and the blowup Bowman is taking a breather, can only hope he posts that review somewhere :(
Thedude has more insight on this, just tread carefull
Anyone know how bowman shimmed opp's mach2 evaporator so it stuck out further and if this is a complex thing to do as I have a intel chip without a heat spreader that I would like to be able to use.
Thanks guys:)
File down the plastic on the bottom of the cpu bracket.
Ok,thats easy.
cheers for that.:)
Can some one tell me or a link or if i can send some where
in europe to mod my Mach 2 to 404 or 507 ?
Can i just change the gas?
I dont want to mod the cap tube.
Thanx
PM macci he was setting up shop last I heard.
You can mod it by only adding a schrade valve pulling a good vacume and adding R404a or R507 both gasses are approved under the okoyoto agreement and are used in europe, No other modifications to you unit will be nessassary, If you can find a willing Refrigeration tech with the proper equipment PM me and I will assist him in moding your unit.
Where you live, there are a lot of AC company. Tell them to mod your Prommy.Quote:
Originally posted by martinakerman
Can some one tell me or a link or if i can send some where
in europe to mod my Mach 2 to 404 or 507 ?
Can i just change the gas?
I dont want to mod the cap tube.
Thanx
a valve to fill. 1.5 extra cap tube 0.8 mm a small drier on the back pipe. and fill with R404.
No big deal, many can help you there. Get a little to mutch R404 and take a little of, hven you have the load from the computer. But extra fan yourself.
The cost in Spain 130-150 euro
:toast: :
sorry but... what does tom's pic above show? 9dont really get why the insulation is ripped
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Holck
small drier on the back pipe
Quote:
Originally posted by Nico
Right:toast:
The R404 get a change to condensate before the kompressor.
You can also do as Bowman: Make a bigger tube on the return.
same thing ;)
Ok i will try to find some AC company to do it.
Thank you for the advices.
Other thing... will the compressor be able to manage 507 without
problems?
what temperatures do i have to expect after the mod?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second thing, have you ever heard about "Heat stink too tight,so pc doesent boot" ?
on Asus P4C800 Deluxe No video signal,just a voice saying
"System Fail Cpu Test,System Fail Cpu Test..over and over again"
I found many people with this problem also with original boxed cooler no Overclocking.
Well this happened to me, after having my Mach 2 working perfect for 1 month ,suddenly pc got freezed.
After restarting no post again.
So i had to re install the Evaporator and i tried no to over tight the screw.. and system posted again.
Now is working but if i tell you the truth...the pc is not the same.
Before this happened was 100 % Stable ( 260 Fsb 1:1 1.65v 3.0c@3.9Ghz) It could do every benchmark.
And now PcMark04 Freezes in Cpu tests etc.
Temps are the same as before, volts.. etc.
I really dont know what to think.
Or was that for a month i was lucky to OC @3.9 ? i dont think so.
Well, i hear any tip..thanx again.
You can do 507, but i will recommend R404 no big difference.Quote:
Originally posted by martinakerman
Ok i will try to find some AC company to do it.
Thank you for the advices.
Other thing... will the compressor be able to manage 507 without
problems?
what temperatures do i have to expect after the mod?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second thing, have you ever heard about "Heat stink too tight,so pc doesent boot" ?
on Asus P4C800 Deluxe No video signal,just a voice saying
"System Fail Cpu Test,System Fail Cpu Test..over and over again"
I found many people with this problem also with original boxed cooler no Overclocking.
Well this happened to me, after having my Mach 2 working perfect for 1 month ,suddenly pc got freezed.
After restarting no post again.
So i had to re install the Evaporator and i tried no to over tight the screw.. and system posted again.
Now is working but if i tell you the truth...the pc is not the same.
Before this happened was 100 % Stable ( 260 Fsb 1:1 1.65v 3.0c@3.9Ghz) It could do every benchmark.
And now PcMark04 Freezes in Cpu tests etc.
Temps are the same as before, volts.. etc.
I really dont know what to think.
Or was that for a month i was lucky to OC @3.9 ? i dont think so.
Well, i hear any tip..thanx again.
secund?? No.. or corrosion? -you moved the cpu a little:rolleyes:
something might be damage
:toast:
When i re assembly it i did not find any corrosion on Cpu or Evaporator, no rest of condensation..
Sorry but i dont undestand you when you said:
-you moved the cpu a little
something might be damage
Can you explain it again,sorry i am spanish.
R404A is 507 with 134 added to reduce head pressure. In the modified Prommie there is too much condenser as originally configured. So I use R507 as the higher head and the original captube/condenser gives me four to six degrees and about 10 watts more cooling.Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Holck
You can do 507, but i will recommend R404 no big difference.
secund?? No.. or corrosion? -you moved the cpu a little:rolleyes:
something might be damage
:toast:
When you said : "So I use R507 as the higher head and the original captube/condenser gives me four to six degrees and about 10 watts more cooling."
Are you saying that only changing gas to R507 with Original Captube and condenser you got -4 to -6 over R404 ?
I only gess what happend. You might have some corrosion on the legs of the CPU. when you put the coolinghead on again, you moved the CPU a little in the socket, then it workt again. OR... There might be someting wrong now, some damage somewhere..Quote:
Originally posted by martinakerman
When i re assembly it i did not find any corrosion on Cpu or Evaporator, no rest of condensation..
Sorry but i dont undestand you when you said:
-you moved the cpu a little
something might be damage
Can you explain it again,sorry i am spanish.
Yes and I get better loaded temps because of the increase in head and refrigerant flow..Quote:
Originally posted by martinakerman
When you said : "So I use R507 as the higher head and the original captube/condenser gives me four to six degrees and about 10 watts more cooling."
Are you saying that only changing gas to R507 with Original Captube and condenser you got -4 to -6 over R404 ?
Chilly1,
Whats the drop from R134A to R507 just changing gas only?
has anyone used R508?????
R508b i think is a highpressure gas(used in cascade systems and such).Quote:
Originally posted by nietsni3
has anyone used R508?????
Changing gas only with a mod for fan control and tuned for best load and temperatures you will get 20 to 30 degrees at the head unloaded loaded temps vary according to load.
Fuggers cascade originally had Pure 508B now it has a blend of R1150, R508 and R290, I used the 508 to reduce the head pressure and the R290 to thin the oil and cool the compressor.
question, if a phase change system is slow to start cooling things (example, CPU), what kind of problem with that system could you think of? does it need gas recharging?
why is this thread not sticky any more????
If the cooler takes a long time to get down to temp, then it usually has a lower charge in it. That may not be a bad thing, if it holds good temps when it gets there.Quote:
Originally posted by nietsni3
question, if a phase change system is slow to start cooling things (example, CPU), what kind of problem with that system could you think of? does it need gas recharging?
why is this thread not sticky any more????
so, to fine tune a system to maximize the speed, what do you suggest?
A system that is slow to cool but still gets down to temperature it may be that the mass of the block is too high an dthat must first be cooled or the ststem is under a large load and it must also pull the tamps down at the same time it is cooling.
On to your second question pick the proper forum if it is about processor speed if it is about cooling what do you need to know...
And Why is this not a stickie anymore??? no activity in it for quite a while... Better to post on the forum...
It seems the best way is to start with enough refrigerant in the system to start the compressor. Start the cooler up and add more refrigerant until it starts to reach negative figures on the evaporator. Now start the PC and put as higher load on it as possible, watching temps of course. You can now start adding more refrigerant until it reaches it's coldest temp, then your done.Quote:
Originally posted by nietsni3
so, to fine tune a system to maximize the speed, what do you suggest?
Of course the idea would be to add small amounts of refrigerant, and try to increase the load as much as possible, in steps. This way you are optimising your clks at the same time.
Chilly1,
That's a good ponit about evaporator mass, as it explain why Prommies have always done so well, but take forever to cool down. That mass will control heatspikes much better too.
The modded prommies that I do will pull down in about 3 minets to the minimum temperature.
chilly1 what else do you do to mod the prommys?
Is there anything else I can do other than regassing with r507
is it better to add another dryer on the suction line so it will take more refrigerant without flooding?And if I was to add captube
how much .026 (which is all I can get) would be suitable?
Cheers.
If you put a 10K resistor in series and a switch across the temp probe it will force the fan to high and the display to 20C this will keep the alarm from going off and will give you about 5 to 6 degrees colder under load. And I wouldn't add any cap tube to it, you can get it colder but you will lose capacity. As I mod them the system is loaded up as much as it can handle an dgranted a longer capillary will unload uit and lower the current draw the current mods I do will keep the compressor cool while those with the captube also modded have a tendancy to cause excessive heating of the compressor.
btw just regarding the pull down time, wouldnt a greater charge result in a slower pull down? :confused:
Higher pressure from greater static charge gets the capillary system working faster. It dosn't have to wait for the compressor to pump up as as much pressure to start the evaporation, which in it's self aids it's own pull down. It's like a cascading effect by itself :D (not cascade system, that's different).Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnarok
btw just regarding the pull down time, wouldnt a greater charge result in a slower pull down? :confused:
well, with a higher charge u get a greater high side pressure and that means u get a higher low side pressure as well...
i dont see how that makes things any faster, perhaps an expert opinion?
chilly1, not being able to lay my hands on the datasheets at the moment, am I correct in assuming there's no way of getting r23 to work in a prommi?? ;)
Exactly, the highside pressure builds from that while the lowside drops quickly as the compressor is compressing a higher pressure gas. The reason it doesn't get as cold, is it's harder to get the lowside down to a vacumn to increase efficiency.Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnarok
well, with a higher charge u get a greater high side pressure and that means u get a higher low side pressure as well...
i dont see how that makes things any faster, perhaps an expert opinion?
Gary Gary where art thou?!
R23 in a prommie is possiable if you have the condensing temperature low enough. You will need a condenser three times as big, an additional compressor a little bigger and an interstage HX, it would then be a prommie cascade. I got one here that is going to get that treatment. I will remove the condenser insatll a second compressor and HX and a larger condenser.Quote:
Originally posted by Marci
chilly1, not being able to lay my hands on the datasheets at the moment, am I correct in assuming there's no way of getting r23 to work in a prommi?? ;)
hmmmm.... I like the look of -85 evap temp... lol!!
If you were where the temps get down to -40 then just charge it with R23 and set it outside.. done deal... Probably need an oil seperator though...
And build walls around it, because when the weather warms up it is going to pop like a zit... LOLQuote:
If you were where the temps get down to -40 then just charge it with R23 and set it outside.. done deal... Probably need an oil seperator though...
Put a temperature guage on it and have it set at -30 so when it is warmer it will not run, and also install a warning label that says not intended for daylight operation, cold region research only.
Sorry if this is in the wrong place, but since this is his thread I thought I would post here.
Where is Bowman1964? Friends sent me here to find his Mod Shop but I have been lurking around waiting for him to post something and have not seen him at all.
If he is on vacation or something, does anyone know when he will be back?
He does not answer my PMs even though I tried to explain who I am. I know he must be very busy. Thank you.
Why can't I add my avator?
He doesn't frequent these parts much anymore...
They have not seen him at phasechange.com either. Isn't anyone concerned or at least curious about what happened to him? Sorry but this is kind of strange imo. :confused:Quote:
Originally posted by Marci
He doesn't frequent these parts much anymore...
His path departed from XS and If I have understood correctly he's a mod at TX now...
hey, are this forum and that truextreme the same???
No.Quote:
Originally posted by nietsni3
hey, are this forum and that truextreme the same???