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As I said before, was the same with Ramdeath/coldboot those that didnt have it showed no interest other than to question the persons ability to overclock.Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn1998
Then theres the "well if you are going to push more volts than the default, what do you expect":rolleyes:
Forget trying to convince him. I've had heatead argument before with him back in NF4 Ultra-D and SLI-D's initial killing reports of memory. Funny enough what is known issues of UTT memory killer was considered not important or acknowledgable. Good thing this time around, his stand is much more mellow this time around. I am still surprised till this date that he hasn't killed or his customers didn't kill single DFI board. I wish I was in his shoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn1998
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzcpa
I have MANY friends who overclock their stuff BUT they don't join forums.......Do you happen to know how many HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS do this around the world?......So don't expect them to write down their proplems......They don't even know us......!......If ALL users who works with a motherboard of a certain company and had troubles where joined here, we whould have REAL trouble you know.......We may had the XS server down from the heavy traffic.......;)
So what you here in the forums, multiply it by 10 not to say by 20....... :)
I understand that,but the fact is,people are having problems with this motherboard,and I was thought that this is why we have forums; to help and be helped.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzcpa
If the tables were turned (which they have been) and everyone was having great success with this board,and were able to overclock their chips to 5.98GHz,do you think we the members should just shut-up because it only happened to a handful of people,and not report our findings?? And would you say to those people,"well your oc is an isolated result,therfore it doesn't matter"? Come'on
I understand what your saying Bro... BUT what you are saying is purely speculation. It may very well be that the Hundreds upon Hundreds around the world as you put it are the opposite and NOT having issues. As you stated we will never know cause there are LOTS of em that dont even visit forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
What is considered a BAD amount. remember that as the number of the specific board is sold the possibllity that failures occur rise as well only due to the number being output. So lets say they sell 1,000 boards (even though this number is probably higher) and 10 people report problems. Heck lets say 50 people report problems. Does that make this board a failure.. Not by any stretch. Hell even at 100 boards bad vs 1,000 sold is not a bad ratio of failure. (unless you are one of the ones with the failure and I understand) So until we really hear that "ok we have had out of 1,000 boards sold 500 went bad" then i cant really see all the panic. Im not saying that there is no problem. Im not saying that there is a problem. Im just saying we dont have complete numbers on how many failure issues there really are out there Vs Possitive working units.. Everything is all speculation.. No matter what side of the coin we look at it. But thats just my thoughts.
@ Captin Insano......You are right but IF a company has a 5% failure mobos(or whatever), that indicates a no good percentage.....They should be about <2% so as to be OK.......and we are talking about NOT WORKING stuff and NOT about stuff that burnes down other stuff.......We are talking about that we get something that it doesn't work or dies after some short time or whatever......NOT burning my precius hardware that I will NOT FIND AGAIN EVER.......That's my oppinion......;)
Hipro..Im not sure what you do for a living or what kind of bussiness backround experince you or others have here But to say 5% is alot is far from even close, and to think 2% should be the norm?? Wow is all i can say. you have HIGH expectations..Maybe a lil to high. MOST all bussinesses calculate in a moderate amount of failures cause they are going to happen. but i would have to bet that its closer to 10% and not any less. Realize im not trying to argue or be rude..Im just trying to really point out what the real deal is. Ive been fortunate to be around this bussiness for a long time. Ive seen it come and go. LOTS of manufactures if not all have issues and I will be willing to bet they are closer to 10% then 5% in there calculations. Really if they had only 100 boards sold they only figured for 10 of them to go bad out of that 100. Wow that leaves 90 boards that are still good. Looks like a winner ratio to me. As they sell More and More the number of defectives will rise but the percentage probably stayed the same or close to it. We talk about frying our precious hardware ( trust me I dont like it either.. NOT ONE BIT) But how many more times have you seen or heard of a Power supply going bezerk and killing EVERYTHING.. Mobo, Cpu, Vidcard, Ect.. Ive seen that more then any board has killed stuff. BUT it happens. And it happens more so when you lean to the enthusist/Ocer/Cuttingedge new tech Items. Its not like any of us here put this kind of stuff together and leave it at default factory settings. We push it. And when we do that even increases the percentage that things happen bad to go up. I feel for anyone thats lost something due to reasons like what are happening.. (its happened to me plenty) But i also dont think bashing the manufacture or others that use it or the product itself helps. We paniic a lil to much an lil to loud sometimes. What needs to be understood is that if you want to play on the edge with new gear.. (even tested and trued stuff can have anything happen) If you want to do more then what a factory spec should be.... then expect problems. They will happen. Im not saying that what is happening is right by DFI but im just saying we need to approach it lil more differently.. But thats just my opinion to. I can respect yours as i see and know where you are comming from. I guess im just mellowing out with age.. lol..
I worked for a manufacturing company, building stuff in the nano size, and if 1% of the product was bad, it was a failure. So if bad product is coming out and getting in the hands of the consumer there is a serious problem. Someone somewhere isn't doing the QC work and we are getting burned.
So that's the way i look at it, i was doing the manufacturing and the quality control work and if there was a problem the product would stop until there was a solution.
I agree....a failure rate of anything over 1% would seem high to me.
That said, given the number of reported CPU deaths on the DFI, I'd say the trouble rate is somehere far far less than 1%.
The issue about considering those who don't post on internet forums is irrelevant. Chances are, those with trouble will be on the internet looking for help more than those who do not have trouble. Given that, you can consider that those using the DFI mobo and ARE on the forums as a sample of the total population...which, if anything, is skewed to report more trouble (as happy non internet forum folks are not seen).
Go ahead and scan the other forums. HardOCP, AMDMB, OC.com, etc, etc. Even including DFI Street, which should have the maximum amount of trouble reports, there are a grand total of "a handful" of dead CPUs. That's it.
Statistically speaking, this issue is welll within tolerable RMA rates. Obviously, it is the catastrophic nature of the problem that has lead to a BIOS fix. If this were solely a stability issue, we wouldn't even be seing a BIOS fix. The rate of occurence is just that small.
Rare or not, though, I'm glad to see DFI fix the issue.
The enthusiast PC part manufacturers seem to have a bigger than 1 % failure rate by a good margin.
I don't think the enthusiasts would like to pay for the QA to keep it at very low levels.
I am not talking about boards which kill CPUs (which is now apparently a BIOS bug, not a manufacturing defect). But in general, for the enthusiasts like us it seems that vendors take it as reasonably acceptable that we test what we get and send it back for RMA if it doesn't work.
Plus we send back plenty of working stuff for RMA, too, so for the vendor that hardly makes a difference. Working stuff goes back either because of user error (couldn't make it run), some random incompatibility with other enthusiast parts, or because it doesn't clock well.
If they have -say- a 3% actual defect rate that is hardly in the noise of all RMAs. Optimizing out this rate would be a useless microoptimization, but a very costly one.
Thats very good point Martin about "Plenty of working stuff sent for RMA" and not something that a lot of people realize. I have done a number of checks of "RMA Rates" of motherboards returned to us, the manufacturer. You would be shocked to know that structurally about 50% of all returned boards exibit no problem what so ever, and fair portion of the rest are misdiagnosed. I've even seen appalling figures showing 80-90% NPF (No Problem Found) in some cases. With that in mind it is important to make a distinction between Return Rates and actual Defective rates. A return rate is simply what a given distributor receives back for "whatever" reason. If this is say 1 board out of every 100 then it is often claimed by the unwitting that the board has a 1% failure rate. However when say 10 such "defective" boards are gathered and sent to the manufacturer for repair and it turns out that 5 have no problem then the % shifts down. Therefore it can be obviously seen that no one except for the MB maker can judge actual defective rates accurately. Everything thing else is just guesstimation (or in other words "Return Rates"). Actual defective rate is a simple equation: Amount of actual defective boards received in a given time over amount sold in the same given time. Unfortunately "Defective Rate" and "Return Rate" are often confused with one another and in the worst cases seen as one-in-the-same.
Seem to remember the same being said about coldboot/Ramdeath problem, as far as my problem goes NO bios resolved my issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Cracauer
As for the matter of number of death's verse board's sold...I say its early days, coldboot took quite a good while to really take off, took a good 2 months for me see any problems.
But I do hope Im wrong, I feel for anyone losing a CPU let alone a prize one :(
I have no doubt about that. I am not in the hardware business, but I see what the customers reject and what low percentage of that we actually fatfingered. And we don't even have resellers in between.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog14
For me personally I would like the enthustias vendors to crack down on the percentage of hardware that is physically bad or turns bad right away, and I would pay an amount of money for it that would probably recover the cost for doing that.
But I am somewhat special, using enthusiasts parts for professional or semi-professional work. As I wrote I have no doubt doing this crackdown on error rate would drive prices up to a point where the enthusiast vendors would die because nobody outside XS would buy their stuff and the party would be over for everybody. For the vendor the reduction in returns would be neglible and not a cost-saving factor, given that the stuff comes back no matter whether it's broken or not.
So I fill out my RMAs when needed. And order Geil RAM when I can (why don't these slackers put out a high-performance 2x 1 GB kit, anyway?).
welcome to XtremeSystems :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by dball3
thx for your input!
well, if you guys cant reproduce the error it doesnt mean there is no error, could be that it only happsn in rare situastions with certain other components, but yeah, thats unlikely and i get what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog14
thx for the input, 50%+ returned boards are 100% fine hmmm
what is the problem with your board?Quote:
Originally Posted by jiff
Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Cold boot, I also lost 1 sets of VX
Unfortunately I'm with ya there(cold boot- NOT vx death).......Quote:
Originally Posted by jiff
BUT I don't have the SDS that comes with the new and improved "EXPERT" board :rolleyes:, so I guess I've got that going for me :rolleyes:
My Expert crapped out today... 29 days after I installed it. I'm getting 3 lit diagnostic LED's, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's the board, and not my precious 0530TPMW. I'm going to try my 3200 Venice in it tomorrow to see if it's the board or CPU. I was ripping DVD's overnight and noticed BSOD in the morning, then couldn't get the thing to post... totally blank. It was running 2.5 (250x10) 2-2-2-5-1T 1.425VCore and 3.31VDimm.
keep us posted;)Quote:
Originally Posted by QettoE
I sure will. I'm doing an 8 hour deep CMOS clear now since 15min didn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by jiff
Have you removed the battery previously?
Oh yeah. Been wrestling with this thing since 3:00PM (9 hour already). Pretty much tried anything I had at disposal. Safe jumper, with jumper, without jumpers, different RAM, different PSU... nothing so far. I want to try the deep clear before I tear up my other machine with 3200+, and I'll probably jump off a cliff if I find out that my proc is dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankybugga
As said my comp was in BSOD screen when I got up today. I wanted to add a HDD and M-Audio sound card so I just unplugged it without rebooting, installed my HDD and SND, and nothing happened. Pulled them all out and the same thing.
you unplugged hardware while the system was running? :confused:
jiff and muzz, so your boards are dead as well? :(
He did NOT say that, he said he unplugged the computerQuote:
Originally Posted by saaya
argghhhhhh another one bites the dust - sorry to hear Qetto