Overclocking with Radeon X1800 XT

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10-15-2005, 01:30 AM
Ubermann

Still no software to overclock this cards beyond CCC limit except winclk?
As there is others that has the XL but cant try how far they go.
Cant ATI release a clocking tool without the volt adjust ?
10-15-2005, 01:42 AM
Vapor

Voltage adjust has already been taken care of with ATi Tool B9 (available only through special request to W1zzard). The OCing tool that Sampsa and others are using right now is ATi internal....there's more than just "we don't want to give this to you" behind it, but Grayskull has hinted at a public version of it. Just wait a little bit, W1zzard should figure this one out in due time.
10-15-2005, 04:11 AM
Astennu

srry sampsa for the wrong name :D would you be so kind to post pictures of both your XT an d XL core ? so see the difference ??
10-15-2005, 04:23 AM
Vapor

IIRC, he said they looked the same to him (and I think he knows what to look for ;)).
10-15-2005, 06:33 AM
Astennu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

IIRC, he said they looked the same to him (and I think he knows what to look for ;)).

So it had almost the same numbers on the chip ? Because the XT's i have seen had W15. And maccie had a W14 XT ( that was on the picture of the core )

So i'm realy wondering how we can see the diference between a R520XL ( Softground problem core ) And a R520XT ( Fixed core ). Because they are all labeled R520.
10-15-2005, 07:29 AM
Nunyabiz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astennu

I think i'll scip the XL boards because of the bad cores and go for a XT. But the R580 will be here in Q1 06. Until that time that X1800 XT should me enough :rolleyes: But for the cooling. I think this time te stock cooler is better than a Zalaman VF700 of artic solution. The heatsing is huge. Its 2 of 2.5 CM in hight. And someting like 7 cm in with??. The X850 heatsink was only 1 cm in hight.

So i think that if u whant beter cooling u need H2O. Or zalman and artic sould build a new cooling with heatpipes or so.

Samba. What what is the total max of that XL board ? if u cool it with that LN2 ? I think the XT must get higher. Do to leakage in the softground in the XL core that prevent them to clock high. The max was arround the 550 point but samba already got 700-700.

I thought I read somewhere that the softground issue was fixed before full production. I have aslo hit 575 core and 550 mem(limit of ccc) without any problems. I would love to be able to go higher though.
10-15-2005, 07:47 AM
Nunyabiz

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyMouse

I don't see why no overclocking utility is publicly avalible yet for the x1800.
This has to be a first.

w1zzard as stated that ATI made it very complicated and thats why its taking him so long. :mad:
10-15-2005, 08:02 AM
perkam

The OTs just get weirder and weirder :rolleyes:

lol @ Samba...but pls read through the entire thread before asking for information. There were pictures of the XL and XT posted in this thread and in NUMEROUS reviews when the X1800 series was launched, see here for listing of reviews: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=75890 .

I'm assuming the oc utility will be released when the XT is launched...I dunno if Sampsa is waiting for the same date to start breaking WRs ;)

Perkam
10-15-2005, 08:22 AM
kamongear

NIce o/c there. Cant wait to see more with the XT.
10-15-2005, 12:13 PM
cantankerous

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunyabiz

I thought I read somewhere that the softground issue was fixed before full production. I have aslo hit 575 core and 550 mem(limit of ccc) without any problems. I would love to be able to go higher though.

You know? I have been following the X1800 releases pretty close, or so I thought cause I have heard nothing about any softground issue until the cards actually came out. I may have missed it but this sounds like a serious problem that I overlooked. Can anyone please explain exactly what this softground problem is and how it affects the cards performance/overclocking? Is this similar to the X800XL and why the overclock worth crap? Can anyone confirm that all released XL cores are in fact softground issue free and ready to go? I would love to get an XL as they are available now and cheap and should be much faster than my current X800XL however when I hear of any hardware issue that can't be fixed it steers me away. This softground issue is doing just that until I can be swayed otherwise that the issue doesn't exist. Thanks guys.
10-15-2005, 01:28 PM
Astennu

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantankerous

You know? I have been following the X1800 releases pretty close, or so I thought cause I have heard nothing about any softground issue until the cards actually came out. I may have missed it but this sounds like a serious problem that I overlooked. Can anyone please explain exactly what this softground problem is and how it affects the cards performance/overclocking? Is this similar to the X800XL and why the overclock worth crap? Can anyone confirm that all released XL cores are in fact softground issue free and ready to go? I would love to get an XL as they are available now and cheap and should be much faster than my current X800XL however when I hear of any hardware issue that can't be fixed it steers me away. This softground issue is doing just that until I can be swayed otherwise that the issue doesn't exist. Thanks guys.

It was some kind of leakage problem. What made the chips clock bad. when it was found it was fixed within 24 hours. By adding a extra metal layer te prevent leakage. The cores with this problem would max out neer 500 MHz. When ATi found the problem there where alteady chips produced. So those one will end up in the XL lines. And now all chips are fixed so newer XL board will have good chips that can clock sky high.
10-15-2005, 01:35 PM
Nunyabiz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astennu

It was some kind of leakage problem. What made the chips clock bad. when it was found it was fixed within 24 hours. By adding a extra metal layer te prevent leakage. The cores with this problem would max out neer 500 MHz. When ATi found the problem there where alteady chips produced. So those one will end up in the XL lines. And now all chips are fixed so newer XL board will have good chips that can clock sky high.

Cool then maybe mine is a new one because I am at 575 at the core already!
10-15-2005, 02:06 PM
cantankerous

yea I was going to say, how do you know which chip you are getting. For all we know thousands could have made it off the line with this problem. I know with my luck I will get one of these chips. =/. If they clock near 500 max due to the leakage problem than anyone getting near 600 must have a good chip.

Wondering, anyone here have experiences with the Sapphire X1800XL cards? Those are the only ones available here in Canada atm.
10-15-2005, 02:53 PM
Astennu

I heared that the first R520 samples only Ran 490 MHz on the core. But u don't know if u have a bad one. The Bad cores would have problems with 625 mhz no matter the ammount of voltage you use. I could be that if ur are running 575 you will be able go get lets say 600. But then there is a wall u can't pass. U try voltmods and u still are not getting past that 600 mhz.

I don't know if its that kind of problem. I don't think there are manny softground problem cores.I think all cores from Argust and septemer are fine. but i don't know for sure. But ATi was aware that there was a problem so stopped production. Don't know exactly when what was. But we will soon find out when we have a non limmeted OC tool :).
10-15-2005, 04:05 PM
ahmad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunyabiz

Cool then maybe mine is a new one because I am at 575 at the core already!

I highly doubt ATI would have shipped out the cores with the bugs. I have heard of others that have the x1800XL and no one is maxing out anywhere near 490MHz (actually all of them have clocked to CCC max). So I can say I am 98% sure that all x1800XL available have the non-crappy-overclocking cores.

Besides, ATI would have been quite stupid to not test something before mass producing :stick: :slap:
10-15-2005, 04:45 PM
Nunyabiz

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmad

I highly doubt ATI would have shipped out the cores with the bugs. I have heard of others that have the x1800XL and no one is maxing out anywhere near 490MHz (actually all of them have clocked to CCC max). So I can say I am 98% sure that all x1800XL available have the non-crappy-overclocking cores.

Besides, ATI would have been quite stupid to not test something before mass producing :stick: :slap:

The weird thing is the default core is 500.
10-15-2005, 06:47 PM
perkam

Grayskull has informed me that neither the XL or the XT have any softgrounding issue and if the cores either A14 or A15, they perform the same...Hence the end of that discussion.

I'm sure (this is my opinion) that once the overclocking tool is released, the multiple no. of members that have bought an XL will see the true ocing potential of their cards...which can be seen in Sampsa's initial results with an XL (with the XT's cooler) running to 700/700 on air with no problems.

Thx.

Perkam
10-15-2005, 07:05 PM
cantankerous

Well that is good news if NONE of the soft ground issued cores made it to the market cause the gamble is something I don't wish to take part in. I Could see ATI releasing them if they did 500mhz cause stock is the cards are guaranteed to do out of the box and anything else is a bonus. If 500mhz worked fine then ATI could sell it as so. I can't see them just throwing the softgrounded cores in the garbage but maybe they did?

If A14 and A15 perform the same what is the difference as surely there must be something that distinguishes one from the other. I just find 500mhz and 625mhz a huge jump in speed difference for someting that should be the same. If not than anyone with an XL will have an XT guaranteed once they add more voltage and start overclocking with a better cooler.
10-15-2005, 07:43 PM
perkam

Quote:

If not than anyone with an XL will have an XT guaranteed once they add more voltage and start overclocking with a better cooler.

Precisely ;) Ppl just want the XT's 1.26ns of 512MB memeory vs the XL's 1.4ns 256mb.

Perkam
10-15-2005, 08:11 PM
ahmad

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

Precisely ;) Ppl just want the XT's 1.26ns of 512MB memeory vs the XL's 1.4ns 256mb.

Perkam

If PowerColor or Connect3d start making XLs with 1.26ns memory... :slobber:

Probably would be so expensive that it lies between the XL and the XT and anyone who could afford it would just get the XT... :hm:
10-15-2005, 09:10 PM
jjcom

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantankerous

Well that is good news if NONE of the soft ground issued cores made it to the market cause the gamble is something I don't wish to take part in. I Could see ATI releasing them if they did 500mhz cause stock is the cards are guaranteed to do out of the box and anything else is a bonus. If 500mhz worked fine then ATI could sell it as so. I can't see them just throwing the softgrounded cores in the garbage but maybe they did?

If A14 and A15 perform the same what is the difference as surely there must be something that distinguishes one from the other. I just find 500mhz and 625mhz a huge jump in speed difference for someting that should be the same. If not than anyone with an XL will have an XT guaranteed once they add more voltage and start overclocking with a better cooler.

I would guess the A14 just means XL and A15 just means XT. Maybe they've been binned so that the XTs will hit higher speeds. Remember back when OCZ released the PC3200 VX, didn't they say the chips were binned to 240mhz. Maybe something similar is going on here? Just a thought :)
10-15-2005, 11:53 PM
Astennu

Ok i will try A XL card then. Because a XT board will not be in the nederlands for a long time. And i whant to buy a R580 to so nice step between te two.

The stock of the 1.4ns mem is 714. Now i'm wondering on what kind of voltage that will be. My guess is the 2.1V that the XT will be running. the XL only runs 1.8 on the memory.

The core of the XL = 1.05 and the XT has 1.33. And i'm wondering how important is that memory speed. Lets say u have to setups one:

800-1500 MHz And
800-1750 MHz

Would we see like + 1000 Points in 3dmark 2005 and high games in ingame FPS ? or will it be like 100 points ? I realy don't have a clue. Mebe sampsa can test this one ??
10-16-2005, 09:09 PM
sean478
hey dudes, It's my first post here :)

I saw this thread on google and i thought id drop in :) nice job sampsa! :)

ok now to the post:)

I'm thinking about getting a x1800 xl and moding it to a xt I am verry knowledgeable when it comes to flashing/unlocking radeon cards and i was wandering if any on you guys had access to the bioses that go to these cards (x1800xl/x1800xt)

another thing that would be usefull are the inf files for the drivers and the fuse data that you can see here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by W1zzard

Download and install ATITool
Hold down the shift key and click on "settings"
Now scroll to the bottom of the list, you should see four new values listed. (The screenshot here is from an X850 XT PE)

http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/...ages/fuses.gif

Post yours here and include information like model and number of active pipelines.

Especially interesting would be data from before bridging laser cut and after.
thx :)
ill be shure to stick around btw im not just passing through ;) ill let you guys know everything i learn :)

(Btw just incase you dudes are wandering lol i do know that there isn't anything to unlock in the xl to xt flash im just curious what the fuses say :))
10-16-2005, 11:30 PM
W1zzard

this fuses data applies only to the X800/x850 series
10-17-2005, 12:09 AM
sean478

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

this fuses data applies only to the X800/x850 series

oh realy :( humm.. something diferent now?

Btw, it works on the x700s also ;) (fyi)
http://www.overclock.net/showpost.ph...&postcount=141
(i think anyway lol.. :p: )

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