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thanks for the info , have to see how mine compares in a week or two when my card comes in. I can't match your multi since I can only goto 11 :( but thats life with an AMD 939 3500+.
XT card is nearly twice the clocks of my 9700pro should be fun having a modern card for once :D
thanks for the correction storm :D
I didn't know 3700+'s had a multi of 13 :confused:
They don't highest is 12
It's your CPU that doesn't give higher multis, not the MBD.Quote:
Originally posted by iboomalot
thanks for the info , have to see how mine compares in a week or two when my card comes in. I can't match your multi since I can only goto 11 :( but thats life with an asus 939 mobo.
XT card is nearly twice the clocks of my 9700pro should be fun having a modern card for once :D
I corrected my previous post, thanks pkrew.:)
Congrats on topping the 2k1 ORB.:toast:
Quote:
Originally posted by StormPC
Congrats on topping the 2k1 ORB.:toast:
Saphire XTPE 769/661, N 759/558 cooled by r404a machI :slobber:
for us mere mortals please explain
769/661, N 759/558 ???
I understand one is memory and one is core but why two #s???
thanks for the reply
He ran his videocard at 769/661 on everything except Nature, where he ran 759/558.
Clocks are usually given as core/mem.
Thanks storm, that's right I ran Nature at a different clockQuote:
Originally posted by StormPC
Congrats on topping the 2k1 ORB.:toast:
how do you do different nature settings ???
So we all agree that 754 CH is better?
If i'll get 3400+ CH CG and DFI's mobo, I will be able to run it at 10x280-290Mhz with 1gig of RAM under VapoLS?
I want it stable enough for intense Doom3 gaming..
Thanks :D
ps, when i asked bout xt vs none xt score jump i meant x800 pro vs x800 xt? I'm assuming whoever replied(couple pages back) thought i meant 9800's cos you said only a few hundred points.
I'm trying to remember what scores i got. Depending on how much faster the x800xt is clock for clock on a x800 pro, well, we'll have to wait hopefully mid next week latest for my x800xt. THough room temps of 34C aren't gonna help.
I agree the 754 with equal clocks under certain aspects like 3Dmark will score higher than a 939 NC but not by a "huge" margin. Since you are phase changing the CPU I would think the s754 would be a great choice for the money.
I hope this DFI is a great as its hype at this point. I might even have to change mobo to get that built in 3.1 vdimm :D
The 3400+ and 3700+ chips are more powerful clock for clock than the 3500+ and 3800+ because of the cache. They are also cheaper, as are the motherboards, and they do not require DC kits to reach their max potential. This is all undeniable by anyone who is willing to look at the overwhelming evidence. But proof is nothing more than what one is willing to accept. If a person wants to believe something they will find proof. If they do not wish to believe it they will find evidence to support this as well. Still, things actually are a certain way and it benefits all of us to discover what actually is, even if we don't like it. HOWEVER, if you don't mind spending more money on S939 Newcastles while getting your a$$ handed to you by your friend and is OC'd 3000+ ClawHammer, that is your right!Quote:
Originally posted by Mariachi
So we all agree that 754 CH is better?
If i'll get 3400+ CH CG and DFI's mobo, I will be able to run it at 10x280-290Mhz with 1gig of RAM under VapoLS?
I want it stable enough for intense Doom3 gaming..
Thanks :D
If you absolutely NEED to run 1GB or more of RAM then the S754 is not a good choice. Sure you can run 1GB in a S754 system, but you will not get good overclocks with it compared to running 512MB. The S940 is a better choice, but memory is expensive. The S939 is good for running 1GB or more as well but there is yet to be a really solid performer. The SK8V/FX-53 S940 is my rig of choice for highpowered highend workstations.
again i'll point out, the 3700+ is faster than the 3800+ IN VERY FEW SITUATIONS>
AGain i'll point out that EVERY review shows the extra cache CAN'T overcome the dual channel advantage in most benchmarks.
Just cos you can't see anything but 3dmark, doesn't mean overall the cpu is more powerful.
Also, trying to say the newcastle is far behind and you'd get your a$$ handed to you is plain pathetic. Again, all reviews show there is extremely small gaps in almsot every benchmark.
HAving to have a dual channel kit? siting that as a reason its a worse platform is another desparate act. on the s754 2x 256 work much better than 1x512 in most situations, and therefore 2x sticks are the prefered choice. Simply no difference between them there.
ALso claiming the boards are more expensive, again, bull. You'll find the asus a8v is relatively expensive, but has more features than some boards and a onboard wireless aerial connecter and 54g card.
The gigabyte top end board is same/within a few quid of the 754 version, both versions are expensive, as was the nf2 version of that board.
The abit board is cheap too.
HOWEVER, if you don't mind spending more money on S939 Newcastles while getting your a$$ handed to you by your friend and is OC'd 3000+ ClawHammer, that is your right!
you keep saying this kind of thing, but i can OC my 3500+ too, and you bought a 3700+, why didn't you get a 3000+?
Also my 3500+ and every 3500+ i've seen at work have clocked extremely well, my 3200/3400/3000 didn't clock as far on same cooling.
Look:Quote:
Originally posted by drunkenmaster
hmm, tbh i was gonna check, i couldn't understand the pricing of the 3700 + as a none clawhammer, but also know amd wanna phase out 1mb cache on 754 so 939 512 is a decent jump.
EIther way, its still most places i look £200 more than 3500+ which makes it very much not worth teh cash. Dual channel will beat the 1meg in areas and the 1meg will win in some. From what i've seen, between my 3200+ claw, 3400+ claw, then the 3500+ i upgraded to the 3500+ is just more responsive, better in most situations, my a8v is better than all my 754 boards (unmodded) and is, IMHO, just plain better. THis was(sold both 754's) at about 2.65Ghz on each of the 754's. Newer chip helps for sure on teh clocking front, but even when i've clocked it down a bit (36C in my room right now) it still feels more responsive.
CPU L2 Chan Clock
FX-53 1024 2 2.4 (unlocked)
3800+ 512 2 2.4
3700+ 1024 1 2.4
3500+ 512 2 2.2
3400+ 512 1 2.2
So, the 3700+ has 200 MHz more and twice the L2 cache over 3500+ and the only drawback is single channel over dual channel for 3500+. Since A64s have an on-die memory controller and thus very low latency, the bandwidth loss is worth very little. It is only in a few application that you actually see any real difference in performance. The L2 cache makes a slightly bigger difference and with 200 MHz extra, the 3700+ rules over the 3500+. But that's why it costs more too, duh.
That's the whole reason I went with a 939 system is because I have one workstation I use for work, gaming, etc. that I need to run 1GB but still have decent performance.Quote:
If you absolutely NEED to run 1GB or more of RAM then the S754 is not a good choice. Sure you can run 1GB in a S754 system, but you will not get good overclocks with it compared to running 512MB. The S940 is a better choice, but memory is expensive. The S939 is good for running 1GB or more as well but there is yet to be a really solid performer. The SK8V/FX-53 S940 is my rig of choice for highpowered highend workstations.
So far I have my 3500 @ 240x10.5 (2520) @ 1.5 vcore, and the OCZ 3700EB @ 3-2-3-10 @ 2.8v. I don't think that's too bad considering I'm using an SLK948U with a low speed 80mm Panaflo. All on an A8V with has turned out pretty rock solid once I tweaked the BIOS and flashed to 1005.21.
I think if you are into benching/overclocking as hobby that the 1mb cache will help a good bit.
Besides the 1GB reasoning, I plan on moving to an FX-53 and running it hopefully @ 2.6 with the same memory so that way I can have a cheaper upgrade this Fall/Winter then overhaul the system again in the Spring.
But for guys who bench and change out hardware like most people change underwear, I can see the benefits of 1mb cache. If only needed to run 512 of RAM and overhauling the system sooner I'd be running a Gigabyte 754 nForce 250 board with a 3700 definatley as that seems to be the best bang for the buck area.
On a side note, has anyone tested the OCZ Booster on the Rev. 1.02 A8V's? I'd love to pick it up if it could get me a bit more speed on my memory as the chip I have will do 2600 stable on air @ 1.7 volts.
pricewise 939 mobos start at 115.00 the a8v with WiFi starts at 135.00 I paid 142.00 shipped for mine.
754 mobos are 75.00 and up so yes the 754s are less expensive and do well.
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Pjotr
when you take a 3500+ and OC it to 2650-2700 mhz some of the time that overcomes the 3700+ cache advantage, because many of the 3700+ won't clock that high or higher without phase change or extreme cooling for extra help.
stock 3500 vs stock 3700 ,, the 3700+ eats it alive. Once OCed the difference becomes smaller unless PC type cooling is done.
the 3500+ overall is a faster in Pi calculations, 3700+ is faster in gaming by a slight margin due to more cache. Both are nice and both are close most of the time.
all the a64 chips rock and thats whats important.
Let me fix that for ya :DQuote:
Originally should have been posted by iboomalot if he weren't so busy booming and sat down and used his brain for a second
the 3500+ is slightly faster in Pi calculations when it has more clock speed, but the 3700+ is much faster in gaming due to more cache. Both are nice (one is nicer) and both are close some of the time.
And you haven't given a shred of proof of 3500+ hitting 2700MHz aircooled, eh ? You're on water too :D LOL
Storm's 3700+ however did 2650MHZ+ on air 3D stable...
IIRC, i've seens 2800MHz screenies of the 3700+ on air too :D
The suggestion that 3500+s OC further than 3700+s on air is absurd.
No, wait, that's r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s. :p:
This isn't the AMD vs. P4 thread :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by iboomalot
all the a64 chips rock and thats whats important.
gator you miss read
"some of the time"
like some of the time could you refraim from acting like an a$$ and be constructive instead of acting "r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s" ????
**edit**
now I think about it, no you can't :stick:
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haven't seen 1 clawhammer in pifast that aren't PC cooled on several different sites with better times than myself or mongoose need screen prints of
http://pifast.hexus.net/pifast.php
or
http://www.ministryofoverclocking.ne...ests/index.php
which proves my point. Granted Storm got his flying and congrates but that isn't the norm. As stated before DC wins some Cache wins some. FX with both wins period. Too bad some people have to act like a child instead of having a nice discussion.
good day
So you think we're all full of $hit, right iboomalot?
I suggest you give it up, as anybody with a 1st grade reading level or higher (and who is sober, sorry drunkenbaster) can read what I, pkrew and many others have found out first hand. We didn't read this stuff on Anandtech! Review sites are BS. You should already know that.
The S939 is a bit overpriced right now but that's always the way new stuff is. I'm sure you didn't buy that stuff because you were trying to build a cheap system, and you'll be able to upgrade to much more powerful CPUs in the future, so your purchase was not all that bad. Yes you could have gotten a better bang for the buck, but then eventually you would have had to buy a new motherboard as well as a CPU. I'm afraid that until you put a 1MB cache chip in that motherboard you're going to have a hard time keeping up with most ClawHammers. You can still slap the S754 Newcastles though!;)
wanted to point out that the 3500+, as i keep saying is a LOT cheaper than the 3700+, but anyway, no ones comparing stock to stock, if you did compare stock, you'd go 3700+ and 3800, 3400/3500 etc.
Yes there are $75 ath 754 boards, but, there are $20 kt333 boards and $100 nf2's with all the features in the world.
Here boards with the same features are the same price when 754/939, or within a few pounds.
if this guy wants to phasechange and have a good features the version of board in 939 or 754 will make no diff to final price. Thats what i meant. They aren't inherantly more expensive due to being 939.
(on another matter why is the top end asus 925 board £215 :o, thats like $380 or so wtf).
Iboom, in doom 3 the 3400 compared to the 3500+ is 80.4 compared to 79.5, or something like that. but if you check other games, most actually go to the 3500+, very very few benchmarks clock for clock show the 3400+ ahead, (though the 3500+ is like sub 1% ahead when it is, likewise when the 3400+ is ahead).
As far as i can tell 3dmark, and doom 3 seem to put the 1mb clawhammer ahead, according to this thread. THere are SURELY other benchies where the 3400+ will win again, but i don't know what they are.
Anandtech's results and conclusion say that doom 3 is the MOST cache depandant game out to date, and that BARELY gets the 3400+ ahead, other games simply aren't quite as dependant. I also think that doom 3 is seeming the most depandant as the gfx cards of late obviously get nicely scaling scores with better cpu power as they are rather limited by cpu now.
Storm I agree the 754 is less money thats a fact.Quote:
Originally posted by StormPC
So you think we're all full of $hit, right iboomalot? only one person at this point due to his/her attitude
The S939 is a bit overpriced right now but that's always the way new stuff is. I'm sure you didn't buy that stuff because you were trying to build a cheap system, and you'll be able to upgrade to much more powerful CPUs in the future, so your purchase was not all that bad. Yes you could have gotten a better bang for the buck, but then eventually you would have had to buy a new motherboard as well as a CPU. I agree 6-12 months from now if I want to upgrade I can do it without swapping mobos which is one reason I got what I got.
I'm afraid that until you put a 1MB cache chip in that motherboard you're going to have a hard time keeping up with most ClawHammers. You can still slap the S754 Newcastles though!;) I agree in gaming that extra cache will in many cases will over come the DC. I have not said the CH is slow and as a matter of fact I've stated the 939 and 754s are very close. Reviews by anandtech and others show both the 754s and 939s extremely close. If I wanted to save a few bucks I would push a 754 mobile to its absolute hardest overclock and still come up short of my 3500+ when its still got room to grow but you are correct I didn't want that.
I agree in certain gaming the 754 clock for clock is faster thats a fact.
I don't agree its a HUGE margin as you and others seem to portray it to be. To me 2% + or - between the two chips isn't a huge margin. I guess when you are trying to be #1 in ORB a handfull of points might be very important. On that note, I can see your point, Storm, and I understand your viewpoint.
I think you understand mine. :cool:
Is the FX-53 faster than the 3700+ by a "HUGE margin"? Because the 3700+ is closer to the FX than the 3800+ is to the 3700+ in terms of 3D gaming and 3D benching power.
Who's talking about huge? I just said it's more powerful clock for clock.
HUGE might be one of Gators comments, but I would say putting a 939 NC in the same class as a celeron is saying there is a HUGE margin/deficit.
gaming clock for clock 754 CH (1mb)
pifast and memory 939 NC
FX just dominates
thats my opinion on this and Iam sticking to it. :D
Didn't put it in the same class, I just said the NC is slower for the same reason a Celeron is. Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz! It's just computer hardware we're judging here, not your value as a human being.;)
Well now that you've changed your opinion, I finally agree with you :DQuote:
Originally posted by iboomalot
HUGE might be one of Gators comments, but I would say putting a 939 NC in the same class as a celeron is saying there is a HUGE margin/deficit.
gaming clock for clock 754 CH (1mb)
pifast and memory 939 NC
FX just dominates
thats my opinion on this and Iam sticking to it. :D
And when did I say 'huge' ? :confused: