MCR-QP Stackable Radiator Series Released

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03-12-2009, 11:57 AM
sirheck

True ambients make ALL the difference in the world.
I have achieved single digits on air before and my ambient room temp was around
24c. :)
03-12-2009, 12:25 PM
Metric

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

True ambients make ALL the difference in the world.
I have achieved single digits on air before and my ambient room temp was around
24c. :)

Unless you're using a TEC or something similar, please elaborate on how this is possible :stick:
03-12-2009, 01:03 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metric

Unless you're using a TEC or something similar, please elaborate on how this is possible :stick:

Easy.
Reverse the rear 120mm fan and voila.
And yes zero condensation.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...ture198zz1.jpg
03-12-2009, 01:09 PM
Petra

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Well i think everyone needs to remember, we got a full on 500lb pure musscle football defense lineman called AMBIENTS.

No matter how many rads you have, this thing called AMBIENTS is something one can never break using a conventional RAD.

A lot of you guys need to ask yourself the question, do you really need this cooling potential?
The close your get to ambients the harder it is for any gains or improvement.

Thank you for saying this...
03-12-2009, 01:11 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petra

Thank you for saying this...

Its no secret. Everyone should know this.
Actually there should be a separate thread just for ambients and how they effect everything.
03-12-2009, 01:27 PM
pneubmatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Okey there are 2 ways to get this working.

Theory, so if im wrong, i welcome a good debate in it.

The first problem is how there all connected with a 25mm or 38mm space in between. Remind you guys of the infamous paralell sli setup?

The problem with this setup will be in people who run high pressure. The reason for this is because if your spacing is wider, you'll bypass the first rad with high pressure.

The 2 ways i mentioned to compensate for this is to make the stacking smaller. Gabes idea and theory was to make a simple dual pass rad into a quadpass rad. Problem is in a normal rad these passes are connected very short. If you put a bridge or a passover your first rad wont get enough flow for it to be effective.

Second way is to lower your flow at the rad. This is why i want to see tests on this setup, to see possibly, your best pump might be a D5 at setting 3 in this setup.

Overall my original estimates is 33% low to 50% high performance gain @ a cost 125% more then a regular MCR320.

If your hoping for the 2x gain like you would in serial, keep dreaming.

Ask any tester what the delta air in and out on a rad is. They will tell you its very small unless you got silenx fans.
So no stacking is a good idea, you just need the perfect paralell or you need a low flow going though gabe's paralell.

Oh F paralell would work in this setup too, but would require 2 stackable rads.

NaeKuh, it looks like you are exactly right. At least, with the results I've gotten from my rad sandwich so far.

It's been surprising what's happened.... to me, at least.

When I first setup the sandwich, I saw idle temps drop by five degrees, and loaded temps by eight. I was pretty excited. Now, however, I'm not seeing these same results. Honestly, I have no idea why. My ambient is still the same, and nothing else changed, but as of last night, my idle temps were down to a two degree improvement over the single rad, and only four degrees at load (Prime95).

So today the rest of my fans came. I now have 9 fans on the sandwich. And it doesn't matter how fast or slow I turn them, my temps stay exactly the same: 80 at load and 40 at idle. This is on an i7 920 @ 3.6, ambient at 22 C, Coolant temp in reservoir 33 C at load, and 28 C at idle. Not exactly the results I was expecting. I'm very tempted to take the sandwich apart and run them in series. I honestly think that, as you speculated, I'm bypassing my first rad.

Edit: just to be thorough, here's my total setup: Res - eheim 1250 - Swiftech Apogee GTZ on cpu - EK GTX295 WB - MCR320 Rad sandwich - res. My flow rate is exactly one gallon per minute.

Yet another edit: it would be great if Swiftech would include hardware necessary to plumb the rad sandwich in either parallel or series. I'm going to try and track down the necessary connectors to leave it stacked, but plumb it for series flow. I hope it can be done... if anyone could suggest fittings for doing this, I'd really appreciate the help. The hard part is going to be getting fittings small enough to fit between the two rads since I'm using 25 mm fans.
03-12-2009, 01:32 PM
Petra

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

Its no secret. Everyone should know this.

Well, yeah... but you'd probably be surprised how many don't (especially when it comes to points of diminishing returns).
03-12-2009, 01:41 PM
OdinEidolon

not to bash swiftech, whose products are always innovative, good performers and competitively priced, but i suggest you all to have a look at this:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...d.php?t=220874

its not MCR-220-QP-STACK, still explains some things about stacked rads :up:
03-12-2009, 01:42 PM
IanY

I think the point is partially lost about why this concotion was brought to market. This stackable concept isn't designed to take the performance crown, although being competitive with the leading rads is an added benefit.

This is designed to squeeze more performance despite space constraints. Most people do not have a colossal case. For the average slim full tower case, there is a limited amount of radiator space. To a moderate degree, this stackable radiator concept helps add more radiator capacity for a seemingly maxed-out situation.

This is not revolutionary... its just evolutionary.
03-12-2009, 01:46 PM
Jonni Nitro

Man, I am glad I am reading this because I was about to do a 9 fan sandwich. This will save me a ton of room. Would running this in series with only 3 fans still be enough airflow?

Also, if I am only using three fans connected to a sunbeam rheobus, what fans would work well? I am more concerned with having enough CFM at load than I am with noise, because I can always turn the fans down when they arent needed. I have some 1900rpm Scythe Kraze fans right now and these things seem to move a lot of air.
03-12-2009, 01:55 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petra

Well, yeah... but you'd probably be surprised how many don't (especially when it comes to points of diminishing returns).

Yeah thats why there should be a basic thread about it and the dramatic effects it can have on cooling.:D
03-12-2009, 01:58 PM
SNiiPE_DoGG

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

Yeah thats why there should be a basic thread about it and the dramatic effects it can have on cooling.:D

you could yell it in some peoples ears through a loud speaker and they still wouldn't get it....:stick:RRR
03-12-2009, 01:58 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

I think the point is partially lost about why this concotion was brought to market. This stackable concept isn't designed to take the performance crown, although being competitive with the leading rads is an added benefit.

This is designed to squeeze more performance despite space constraints. Most people do not have a colossal case. For the average slim full tower case, there is a limited amount of radiator space. To a moderate degree, this stackable radiator concept helps add more radiator capacity for a seemingly maxed-out situation.

This is not revolutionary... its just evolutionary.

True.
Kinda like overclocking you existing cooling sys,
Same as a CPU or GPU which gives slight gains for not
so much money.
03-12-2009, 02:00 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

you could yell it in some peoples ears through a loud speaker and they still wouldn't get it....:stick:RRR

True.
03-12-2009, 02:02 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

you could yell it in some peoples ears through a loud speaker and they still wouldn't get it....:stick:RRR

RRR wasnt stupid just a fanboy of MM and TC so to speak.
Oh yeah EK supreme.
03-12-2009, 02:04 PM
Zehnsucht

Despite the negativity lately in this thread and the negative test report in the other, I still pulled the trigger and bought it. We shall see how it performs. I like tinkering with these kind of stuff. But then again I am a test-engineer :)
03-12-2009, 02:13 PM
Devil_Dog

This makes my head hurt. I was just about to grab one of these. Now I'm not too sure about it. :dammit:

What to do...what to do....
03-12-2009, 02:16 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

I think the point is partially lost about why this concotion was brought to market. This stackable concept isn't designed to take the performance crown, although being competitive with the leading rads is an added benefit.

This is designed to squeeze more performance despite space constraints. Most people do not have a colossal case. For the average slim full tower case, there is a limited amount of radiator space. To a moderate degree, this stackable radiator concept helps add more radiator capacity for a seemingly maxed-out situation.

This is not revolutionary... its just evolutionary.

Not to mention that this product was requested by XS forum members

There was never any question in anyone's mind (at least not in ours) that 1/stackables could never beat separate rads and 2/stackables would suffer a pressure drop handicap compared to a dual row with equal fin count.

the idea was and still is to improve performance in a space constrained environment and at low cost to exiting MCR owners (10's of thousands of them...)
instead of buying a new dual row and throw away your MCR, just get a second MCR and stack it. BANG for the BUCK Gentlemen [EDIT, and Ladies] is particularly important these days.
03-12-2009, 02:23 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Not to mention that this product was requested by XS forum members ;)

I was one and am still interested in one.:D
Will probably get one within a month or so and
dump my TC rad.
03-12-2009, 02:23 PM
Devil_Dog

Hey Gabe....

When are you going to release some formal or informal data from your in house testing?
03-12-2009, 02:28 PM
pneubmatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Not to mention that this product was requested by XS forum members

There was never any question in anyone's mind (at least not in ours) that 1/stackables could never beat separate rads and 2/stackables would suffer a pressure drop handicap compared to a dual row with equal fin count.

the idea was and still is to improve performance in a space constrained environment and at low cost to exiting MCR owners (10's of thousands of them...)
instead of buying a new dual row and throw away your MCR, just get a second MCR and stack it. BANG for the BUCK Gentlemen [EDIT, and Ladies] is particularly important these days.

Bang for the buck is where it is for me, for sure. Even if I end up having to break up my loop, or just run my sandwich in series flow, I'll still end up having spent far, far less cash on my setup than if I went with, uh, "other" triple 120 rads.

I didn't mean for my last post to sound so negative... yeah, I'm a bit disappointed by the overall performance, but there is still so many different configurations I can try with this hardware. I DO NOT regret my purchase in the least.
03-12-2009, 03:25 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJHC

Hey Gabe....

When are you going to release some formal or informal data from your in house testing?

Next week.
03-12-2009, 04:15 PM
skinnee

I will try to have test data available at the same time as gabe to compliment the in-house testing.

Now, I'm off to an appointment with a Dremel and some D12SH12's in my garage (D12SL12's are available in open corner). :up:
03-12-2009, 04:19 PM
SNiiPE_DoGG

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnee

I will try to have test data available at the same time as gabe to compliment the in-house testing.

Now, I'm off to an appointment with a Dremel and some D12SH12's in my garage (D12SL12's are available in open corner). :up:

Aye its good fun butchering fans :D

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