lol.. I don't think it could say "Halloween Launch Event" any bigger than it does :)Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
That was for the 275+physx card.
Printable View
lol.. I don't think it could say "Halloween Launch Event" any bigger than it does :)Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
That was for the 275+physx card.
I know that too but look at the line in bold. Doesn't that mean that they are finalizing the details for Fermi?Quote:
Originally Posted by drivingon9
For the extremely general definition of "finalizing", yes, I'm pretty sure they are.
I think they're at A2 stepping right now, so it's all going to depend on testing/etc.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...-fermi-delayed
It's official, wont see it till next year.. sometime.
I hope it wasn't posted yet:)
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3594/fermi1.jpg
LOLL at pics... it explains everything
I dont think fermi will hit in november ;)
nvidia must do something fast because if they launch the fermi about Q1 2010+ would be too late for them...since ATi probably would be launching their next-gen cards in about Q2-Q3 if I remember... :(
LOL, I'm not convinced anything Inquirer is "official", but I agree, November sounds too early. And btw, does Dwayne Johnson even know how to operate a computer?:p: One person I know of that claims to be getting first hand info from Nvidia said he last heard we'll see something in Dec (which may have changed since then), but I'm prepared to wait thru spring if need be. I don't see what the fuss is really, just look at the 5870 status and one term comes to mind AUTO-NOTIFY. Newegg has none in stock. Now ATI and their fanboys can excuse it with shipping delays all they want, but seems to me if they had such great yields they'd have already sent loads of them to distributors and/or vendors. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...5870&x=13&y=28
TSMC only has a limited capacity and the equipment they just got in recently that was suppose to increase capacity actually caused some problems, though it should be fixed by the end of the month. Evergreen cards are constantly streaming into vendors/retailers every few days and OEMs are buying up decent supplys as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
Too late for them? You guys act as if nVidia is doomed if they go a FULL 3 months without having the performance crown. :rolleyes:Quote:
nvidia must do something fast because if they launch the fermi about Q1 2010+ would be too late for them...since ATi probably would be launching their next-gen cards in about Q2-Q3 if I remember...
Right now nVidia is doing excellent sales with their current line of GTX2xx cards and beat their Q3 projections by 90%! If that is failing, then I'd love to see where you hold the bar for success! lol.
Which reminds me....
I don't think nVidia is overly concerned about losing a bunch of market share to ATi considering the fact that even if consumers wanted to go buy an HD5870.... NOBODY has them in stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
This situation is in striking contrast to ATi's long history of having excellent large quantities of newly released cards available at the actual time of launch. (which I recall was about 2 months ago)
It seems to me that ATi rushed out the 5870 in order to get a jump on nVidia since Fermi was still a few months away... but they blew a great chance to grab some market share by not having very many cards to satisfy consumers.
This half-a$$ed launch by ATi doesn't do much good for consumer confidence in their products and market strategy.
Some new tidbits: http://geeksmack.net/component/conte...u-at-sc09.html
also : http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=21965
The latter being all speculation, but still...
Well... it looks like nVidia and ATi are both having the same problem with TSMC. It seems ALL of their 40nm high performance products are getting a crappy 50% yield.
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/16421/1/
A yield of 50%, esp when on a radically new chip architecture with a considerable die shrinkage, is actually pretty good. It's when yields on first batch runs dip below 20% that you start getting serious concerns about profit margins. Some have rumored Fermis yields to be sub 2%, so 50% would be a huge success story by comparison.
The problem is too much talk is being generated from mere rumors. ATI may be increasing their yield, but fact remains no one has 5870s in stock, and if their yields initially were so much better than Nvidia's as implied, that would not be the case. Some seem quick to defend ATI's ability to increase yield, but not Nvidia. Product development/improvement works both ways gentlemen. ;)
Well, people are saying December and Black Friday is November 27th. I'd say either a VERY small release of GT300s on Black Friday or more likely an announcement on Black Friday of a full launch in early December. Nvidia has been very leak-proof regarding Fermi. Just because we haven't heard anything since September doesn't mean there isn't anything going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by drivingon9
We've heard enough to be sure that it's not coming this year.
Anybody? http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/16470/1/ Doesn't look too real... At least GPU-Z screenshot would do...
I don't see why they cannot have an engineering sample already.
AMD had samples of 5xxx months and months before the release...
http://www.evga.com/blackfriday/
The black friday deal is...... not fermi.
http://www.evga.com/blackfriday/images/4waypreview.jpg
They call that a good deal ? LOL ?
Guess it was Wolfram's or Aline's decision :D
Look at ** - looks like you can pre-order Fermi if you buy this. And get it among the first people with no hassle.
If you could exchange the GTX 285s for 2 fermi's then yes, but if they just put you on a priority list for the first batch of cards, eff it, you can get it cheaper and maybe even faster if you know some people or just "pay up" a shop in advance ;)
ummm.. no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew LB
Yield is chips without defects that make unusable. Different circuits have different defect susceptibility. Bigger chips are more likely to have defects.
If your quote was true, and AMD is getting 50% yield on HD58xx, and nVidia is getting 50% on their tiny GT220 DX10.1 40nm chips, then nVidia might as well give up. A 10x bigger complex chip would have dismal pathetic yields like under 1%.
Delay wise, AMD had A2 taped out like June, 4 months before launch. nVidia just taped out Fermi A2, and rumours A3 needed to fix bugs. So we're hoping for March.
FYI TSMC has been producing 40nm HD4770 since beginning of 09. Thats ahead of AMD which started 45nm around same time, and even ahead of Intel. Just to drive down the point, AMD wont make 40nm bulk until Q2 2010.
Finally yields do improve over time.. just ask Intel
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...mprovement.jpg
(the faster and more steeply the line goes down teh "healthier" the process... ie 45nm was a big win for Intel)
FYI
INTEL already spent something like $6B-$7B on 32nm. With economic crisis and banks struggling to raise capital, its difficult to borrow that kind of money for all the small fab companies.
Intel has been straining silicon since 90nm and using high-K (dielectric hafnium as gate oxide between the gate and silicon substrate) since 45nm in 2007.
Unlike AMD, Intel didn't use immersion lithography (putting liquid under lens) for 45nm. Both immersion and double-patterning will be used for 32nm and below until we run into quantum effects.
Basically, its a lot more complicated and exacting and very expensive for each die shrinks. Eazy breezy Pentium3 250nm -> 180nm days are LONG gone.
Interesting discussion of TMSC 40nm manufacturing here:
http://blog.shrinkingviolence.com/20...eld-probl.html
Quote:
Liu cited two materials changes, including the use of silicon germanium to strain the silicon layers, and a move to immersion lithography contributed to problems with defects, as being responsible for being a tougher step than the shift to 65nm, which only involved a change in lithography. “We encountered major issues,” he said.
Liu explained the major problem with yield lay in the stress layers produced by adding different amounts of silicon germanium.
november is over :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by Papagaj
any news on fermi?
someone wants to make a picture story of the fermi is comming in december??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
what?
why december?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
Wait a couple weeks and make one for "09" with 3 wise men and Fermi in the middle.
Any news/rumours/roadmap of HD57xx equivalent from nVidia?
Nope... AMD/ATi isn't having any problems with yields on their current chips, Cypress yields are slightly lower than expected but still fine, Juniper's are better than expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew LB
Nvidia is NOT getting 50% yields...Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
I don't think that you guys are understanding what is going on, yields |= capacity. Just because yields are improving doesn't mean they can get more wafers from TSMC. The reason for the shortage is the fact that TSMC was suppose to increase AMD/ATi's capacity from thousands of units per week to 10k units per week(units |= wafers). This was suppose to happen before Q4 and was delayed and delayed for some unknown reason and then the reason that TSMC gave didn't add up.
http://www.driverheaven.net/news.php?newsid=322
AMD had A2 silicon? Where? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
Nothing until late Q2/Q3 '10.Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
No G300 derivatives have been tapedout yet.
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...leaseFermi.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
Done. :D
just as well change it to Jan, Feb... just to have it ready. :D
find it hilarious how many ATI fan boys are trolling this thread, there won't be much to troll when the GT300 does release and sets the new bar of GPU performance.
also it's pretty sad it took ATI over 13 months and even 2 generations to beat out the old top dog (295), even with GDDR5/DX11 they couldn't beat it until the 5970 which is in very slim quantities.
So the new ETA is jan/feb '10?
at best, probably laterQuote:
Originally Posted by RealTelstar
that GTX 295 you have been around for 13 months? lol
since the gtx 295 came out in JAN 09 and the 4870x2 was AUG of 08, then two generations after that would be the 6XXX series... so WTF? lol
I run mostly Nvidia, and am eagerly waiting for Fermi's release, but cut the crap. lol
New hints are dropping of Q2... which seems to imply A3 isn't going to be final silicon. I have no idea if this is true or not.
Psssttt... don't pester the troll. He enjoys trolling Nvidia threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by justin.kerr
2 Generations = 4800 and 5800, pretty obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by justin.kerr
Even with the 5800 series they still couldn't surpass the 295. I'm sorry I said 13 months instead of 12 months, big deal...
and yes I'm the troll, not the people posting this:
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...leaseFermi.jpg
give me a break
so the 295 came out after the 4800... so add 2 generations, that would be 6XXX.. Ok done feeding.
Focker out.
4890 came out after the 295, April 2 09, 4 months after the 295 launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by justin.kerr
295 was fastest for 10 months..before that ati was fastest for 5 months..and going to be fastest for atleast 5 months after..and the 4890 isnt a generation..its a refresh....3 series is a generation..4 series..then 5 series..so it took ONE generation to beat the 295..because the 4 series isnt getting beat by ANYTHING other then the 295...however ati had the better price/performance by far not that it matters..
I know the 4890 is not a generation...I was pointing out that the 4 Series was still being released after the 295 which is opposite of what he was saying. 2 Generations would be the one going on during the 295 launch (4800 series) and the following 5800 series. That is unless you guys don't consider them to be 2 generations. They did just double all the performance numbers (ROPs/TU/Shaders/etc) and stuck to the same architecture, which is why they came out so much earlier than a new design like the GT300.Quote:
Originally Posted by InCredible
^ agreed the only reason i dont say 2 generations is because the 4 series and gt200 series competed together...gt200 won overall performance..1 generation later(5 series) ati took it back..and ur probably right on the reason they came out much faster..the only thing im not happy with nvidia about is 3 yrs of the same arch and late to the party with fermi..hopefully it is a strong competitor..ati has use the same arch however are saying something new will come in the end of 2010...
now we can expect the launch dates to be delayed..its happend more then once..ati was late with r600 ..nvidia late with..whatever u want to call it..fermi.gt300/gt100 idk....now we'll see if ati's new arch(6 series) will be on time or not..
i just wish something new would show up with proof for fermi..im not impressed as of yet since we have no actual graphics situations to go by...gpgpu doesnt do it for me :(
Someone asked for a picture story of Fermi coming in December and that's exactly what I gave him.Quote:
Originally Posted by LedHed
Don't take it to serious I'm not an ATI fan boy and also not a Nvidia fan boy. I buy whatever I think is the right choice at the moment. My first choice is a Nvidia graphics card because it has a little better support in Linux but that could change once Fermi is released and the price, performance and power consumption isn't as good as the ATI graphics cards.
So I'm going to wait and see what Nvidia can give me and than I decide what I'm going to buy.
lol @ the rock pics
You funny in the head boy?.. :rofl:Jan to April is 3 months not 4..you tell me that the 4890 is a next generation, then say in your next post it is not...your level one noob skills need to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by LedHed
Nvidia and ATI will always have new models coming out within a series(generation) Nvidia released a whole crap load of cards after ATI released the 4890, so again you make no sense at all. The 4890 was not designed to compete with the GTX 295, so again you hold no water with anything you say.
You said two generations after the 295 had been released, your words, that would make it ATI's 68XX series, plain and simple.
I guess you consider the other 23 days in January not to exist after the 295 launch on January 8. Would you rather me say 3 months and 23 days? Does that satisfy your retarded needs? I mean who the hell cares about 8 days in a month being rounded?Quote:
Originally Posted by justin.kerr
Also I never said the 4890 was designed to compete with the 295, I simply said it was released after the 295. This would in turn mean the current generation to compete with the 295 at release was the 4800 series (since nothing else was available, unless you know of some secret series). You add two generations from the 295 launch and you get the 4800 series and the 5800 series.
You guys can argue all day what I said doesn't mean that, but that is what it means.
GT 200 is the same generation as R700. Be it GTX 295 or GTX 280, it's the same chip, it only had a revision with the die shrink (GT 200b), but then so did ATI with the 4890 (RV790).
GT 300 will be the same generation as R800.
Nice try there.
just ignore ledhed, he got banned from another forum for this same stuff. He just loves his GTX295 so much...
Guys, wanted to ask you here, cause I forgot where I read about it:
So first will come Fermi single chip card, right? Q1 2010. When was the dual chip card scheduled? Was it 3-4 months after single? I read it somewhere and cannot find it now... Was it said somewhere?
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by weston
FYI - I dont think anybody is trolling here. And certainly not ATI fanbois here.
I loved the $100 specials on 8800GT, and "supported" nVidia with my wallet over years
But, looking at FACTS, the situation looks grim.
chip date #months_difference
GF1 Oct99
GF2 Apr00 6
GF3 Feb01 10
GF4 Feb02 12
FX Mar03 14
68 Apr04 13
78 Jun05 15
79 Mar06 9
GTX Nov06 8
G92 Nov07 12
280 Jun08 7
Fermi Dec09? - 19months and counting since G200.
No matter how you put it, nVidia has slowed down tremendously. Took 12 months for simple die shrink of 8800GTX!
Its already 19 months since the G200 line and counting, and likely by launch it will be close to 2 years! Past "record" was 6800->7800 15 months. Its like after the summer of 08 everybody at nVidia took a 1 year holiday. They missed and skipped a cycle.
source
http://www.neeyik.info/timeline/
Think you need to put G200b in there if you are counting G92 and G71.Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
The original rumor/speculation/PR BS from Fud/Theo was that a dual card was going to be launched at the same time which is very highly unlikely. It is also unlikely for Nvidia to put a full GF100 on the dual card, they will either have to use a cutdown version like in the past or wait for a die shrink or maybe both.Quote:
Originally Posted by phinix_mike
if you count the 9800 as part of the 8800 line (same GPU core as 8800GTS) then it was 20 months from 8800GTX to GTX 280. Sounds pretty normal for a full architecture change, but if the rumors about yields are true, then it might be a while still
Each of the above listed is a new product, based on a new chip.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
Clock speed bumps are not included
ie I dont have GF2 Pro, GF2 Ultra etc.
G200b doesnt count - because its half node, and didn't change product. Whether using G200 or G200b, the GTX260 still has the same name. Same applies for G92 and G92b. There is much better argument for 65nm X2600XT -> 55nm HD3650 because even though same #SP, DX10 -> DX10.1
I'm not even going to acknowledge requests to put in GF9.. GTS250.. etc.
In 38 months since first DX10, the marvelous 8800 GTX, hard working engineers at nVidia only designed 2 high end chips. G92. G200. Neither DX10.1. And only 1 with any significant architecture change to SP.
At the same time, like a dozen "mid-range" products below 8800GT, and a whole series of much delayed 40nm DX10.1 products to cater to OEMs... did nVidia turn into OEM servicing company overnight.. did I miss something... they've changed man.
Ok, thanks, I forgot that...Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
I'm still thinking that's gonna blow out in late February or March.
I got banned for posting about NVIDIA hardware in the ATI section, ask hilbert, that is the reason. I don't see why I now have trolls following me around on XS and telling everyone I got banned from Guru3D, what is the point? If I supposedly loved my 295 so much then why am I getting rid of it as soon as the GT300 hits?Quote:
Originally Posted by weston
It's hilarious that Guru3D members are so bored they have to come and flame bait banned members. However if you read the posts I made right before being banned I guess I did lead them to these forums after saying XS can discuss hardware without attachment towards brands. Just because the 295 is the latest dual-GPU card from NVIDIA and the only logiacal comparison for the 5970, doesn't have anything to do with what card I own. If I put a GTS 512 in my sig (it's in my closet) will this harassment towards mentioning a card I own end?
Probably not since it still is a Nvidia card.Quote:
Originally Posted by LedHed
so I should list my old 4850 Crossfire setup? Then I can discuss NVIDIA hardware without all the flame baiters?
lol, I've been a member here for quite a while, I just don't post as much here. Also, I couldn't care less what card you own, it's just you are so annoying about your praise of nVidia and the GTX 295 that you can't even hold a reasonable discussion about anything graphics card related. Say what you want, but you got banned because everyone got sick of you, and you went too far by coming back with a new profile.Quote:
Originally Posted by LedHed
I am no ATI fanboy, i use a GTX 275. The 5870 is a great card, the best single card out there. The 295 is a good card, with the disadvantage of using SLi and the problems that come with it.
I loled
Phew, alot of bickering in this thread... The chanses are big that the GT300 will beat the top ATI cards, but only until ATI realease another top card...Back n forth, the way things are...
As it should be Anemic...one on top and then switch around...keeps them competitive.
Is Fermi that hot chick who sings in the Black Eyed Peas? If so, I will take three and do four-way SLI pronto
LOL, that's Fergi, I think.
Ofcourse! Without competition it's hard to have any real development.Quote:
Originally Posted by clo007
Its just the bickering back n forth, fanbois and whatnot. Booooring ; )
It was a joke, dude. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by nipper575
you don't say...Quote:
Originally Posted by YukonTrooper
Please, please, no shouting.
Wont somebody think of the childrens!
AMD went through countless quarterly losses and still around. nVidia's been around for 10+ years and even bought 3Dfx. Regardless of Fermi or not, there will always be the next bigger better faster stronger chip...
or will there? Maybe eco revolution will spread. Its already happening with net-books.. giving up speed for low power efficiency. Consoles already grabbed majority of gamers, and the few PC developer like Infinity Ward are well.. I can't say in front of the childrenz.
if by people you mean admins, then yes I did piss them off. I had plenty of friends on Guru3D after 4 years of posting there. If you really want proof check my profile and look how many friends are listed. Honestly I don't even care if I have "friend" on forums, I'm here to learn and share knowledge, plain and simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by weston
However you aren't talking about anything related to this thread, so I would call that trolling.
Better just not say anything Ledhead everyone will always try to pic on people like you because of the reaction it gives, it is quite lolz
I don't really care if some people on a forum hate me enough to follow me around different sites, it's their loss (of time).
you posted nothing but failure .Quote:
Originally Posted by LedHed
I callQuote:
Originally Posted by skugpezz
EPIC FAIL
for this thread
(stick to the topic)
PS: take your fan/forum issues to your psychologist
====================
Does anyone have GPUZ or similar screenshot of Fermi. All the "facebook fiasco" and presentation and others are just "real" photos of the card. I wanna see something substantial that proves silicon revision and/or #SP.
I may have sold my GTX 260 Core 216 for a 4890 ( I like 8xMSAA and it kills Nvidia cards ) But I know one thing.... When Fermi finally does see the light of day these forums are going to erupt!!
I think it will be slightly faster then a 5870 and if the rumors are true, it'll trade blows with the 5890 :)
After all the waiting and talk from Nvidia it needs to be faster although things never do live up to the hype :)
For all those involved, Nvidia can't afford to trip and fall (where market share and stock prices are concerned ). It benifits us as consumers to have some healthy competition and I'd love to see the GTX380 match or exceed a 5970 ( something of which I believe just might happen in some titles ) Given they are later out the gate, obviously having an infeiror product isn't an option ( not that you'd *try* to intentionally put out one )
I am no longer a big supporter of multigpu configs where gaming is concerned ( benching is still fun though ) so the faster the single gpu cards, the better in my eyes. Moar powa rawr :up:
ClickMe
Fake?
I'm going to let you all in on an INSIDER SECRET.Quote:
Originally Posted by trup
NOBODY knows what final retail Fermi clocks/SP etc config will be. NOBODY. Not even the CEO.
You can huff and puff and really want that x Mhz goal but the reality steps in. MOST of the time, idealistic targets are not met and plans change (ie 4Ghz P4). And same is obviously true of AMD and Intel. Since clock speeds are so dependent on yield, they are often finalized just weeks before launch, based on most recent wafer quality.
Back in the spring Intel's 32nm Clarkdale was already benchmarked and overclocked on the forums. But, by the time it ships, it will be a different stepping, and different maturity of lithog-process. Even cache sizes, #SP, onboard video mem, etc can change quickly in few months before launch based on competitor's products. ie HD4850 was originally planned to be lower clocked and 256MB.
So... guess and predict all you want. But "fake?" response is always a rhetorical question - NOBODY knows how things will change.
you know you can enable 8xCSAA on nvidia cards and its much more efficient compared to 8xMSAA? its safe to say gf100 will beat the 5870. nvidia's goal is to stay #1 even if that means lower margins or more power consumption. its simply a monster of a chip and thats why it will be faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15
Gt300 is supposedly only just over the limit for 2 6pins so it is not that power hungry at all considering the specs and leaves alot of overclocking headroom.
I remember G80 surpassing the hype and blowing everybody through the roof. Those were glory days!Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15
I love home people are dreaming of owning the GT300 hardware thats going to require a personal loan and a dedicated powersupply...
Fermi isnt gooing to hit the market before Q2 2010
I don't see them charging anymore than the 5970, so pricing isn't really the issue here. NVIDIA knows what their products are worth in the market (remember the 295 launched at $500 the lowest price ever for the highest end part available, look back at the 8800 Ultra price) and they will adjust according to ATI.Quote:
Originally Posted by d50man
Just to make it perfectly clear for everybody that's been disillusioned by the HD48xx series very low MSRP -Quote:
Originally Posted by LedHed
Each and every nVidia (and often ATI/AMD) high end product has launched at $500-$650 and even as much as $800.
AMD HD58xx is less transistors, smaller chip (better yields), simpler, only 256bit PCB, and less memory - all indications that Fermi will cost more to make. But what about price?
Regardless if Fermi is faster (or slower), since nVidia can't get game revenues like Sony to sell at a loss, IT WILL DEFINITELY BE EXPENSIVE.
The availability is going to be in early Q2 2010, this was in my nVidia news letter today :(
The most powerful Fermi based GPU processor is not going to reach us until Q3 2010.
Yes... ATI can be happy !Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
Only if they release a 2GB card otherwise ATi will not get a penny of my money. We need more than 1GB of VRAM!
Exactly! We need more memory, specially sicne ATI feature eyefinity now.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
That and ATI and NV need to make cards shorter!
I'm tired of things over 9 inches, and that 5970 is longer than some chassis.
Huh! :confused: Care to post the whole mail ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
Edit: So fermi single gpu in april, and fermi gx2 in Q3/10 ?
I heard it won't be launched before Q6 2010 :(
lol. :clap::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
Question! If the GF100 is having problems ramping up their clocks..then what possiblity, if any, do you think they will have of any overclocking?
IF they manage a blistering 750MHz core and do pass the 5870 by this supposed 30%~40%, then what if that's all they can go? Maybe to 775 at maximum. Couldn't the 5870 be OC'd ALOT higher? I've heard of some doing over 1050MHz on air. ATI could even sell some speed binned chips that start at 950 or 1000MHz. Wouldn't this cut Nvidia GF100's lead down signifigantly? Maybe within 20% or so?
And by that time ATI's drivers have improved, like they have already, and cut the difference between them even more, maybe down to within 10%. Maybe ATI won't even need that 5890, though they probably will with a few months. 5890's may only be OC's binned chips anyway.
And IF NV doesn't quite reach their intended clocks of 750MHz and only manage 650MHz or so to start off then NV may be in bigger trouble than people think.
To be honest, if NV had these working chips at their target speeds they most likely would be out already barring some other technical problems. I don't think NV even knows the exact speed these things will be running at yet. If they knew at all..or were confident of even being close to a speed they would be flooding the internet with performance numbers(if they were 40% or more higher than the 5870). They would be doing everything to keep AMD from selling their cards and taking away their marketshare. This would keep those people that didn't want to wait..it may make them wait for Fermi with numbers like those.
Now if NV performance is about 20%~30% above the 5870 then it probably is best to not really say anything until they're released. Otherwise people will just go 'Meh'. Because we all know they won't be cheap when first released. So that would cause many to STOP waiting for Fermi and buy the competition right now. 20%~30% is not a showstopper so who will wait for that except for maybe the die hard NV fans.
Now, if the performance is 20% or LOWER than the 5870 then there is no doubt that they should not reveal any performance numbers until release...as this would be absolutely devistating and cause really noone to wait for Fermi. NV is not stupid, they KNOW ATI has something waiting to be release at Fermi launch..whether it be a 5890 or new performance drivers waiting in the wings. NV knows they need to combat ATI's show stopper as well.
All I do know is the longer the wait for the GF100 the worse for NV it gets. They need to get something out very soon. I hope for good competition and these are my opinions. Maybe others have the same views..maybe different, who knows. :-)
Source: http://www.fudzilla.com/
Not surprising, but I thought I'd mention it.Quote:
Over the past couple of days several benchmarks pitting two Nvidia Fermi cards against ATI Evergreens have surfaced on the interweb. The results indicated a single Fermi-based Geforce GTX 380 should beat ATI's dual-GPU HD 5970, however, the slides don't appear to be kosher.
Nordichardware got in touch with Nvidia and it turns out the slides were the result of some rather simple photoshopping. Someone basically inserted a bunch of new product names on an old Nvidia presentation template. We've witnessed plenty of these alleged performance charts laying around, but we just don't bother posting them as they are about as reliable as looking at a heap of fresh chicken entrails through a crystal ball whilst eating mushrooms.
Be as it may, we're still expecting Nvidia's Fermi-based cards to have an edge over ATI's Evergreen series. At this point, however, we just don't know how fast they will actually be and whether the performance margin will be worth the wait. Bear in mind Fermi probably won't ship until late Q1, but ATI's is also facing problems of its own, as it is still unable to meet demand for HD 5800/5900 cards.
Basically, both Nvidia and ATI played Grinch and stole Christmas 2009 from FPS hungry gamers. No wonder gamers are turning to consoles in droves.
More here.
You said "IF" 9 times, that's a lot of if's, pure conjecture. Why don't we just wait till the chip arrives at a reputable review site for our opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Your_Boss
BTW, my wife and I like your avatar.
Schematic diagrams all info on Fermi is out!!
http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php
To those proposing that if Fermi could reach 750Mhz it would be out already.
You are right. A 3B transistor chip, complex PCB, and millions of lines long driver are simple and easy and SHOULD be here now.
Afterall, if Toyota can design,test and mass produce the 2009 (extra cup holder) Corolla in a week, and Boeing can roll-out fully tested and certified 787 in a couple days, then nVidia is obviously lazy - right!?
What my original question really was is..Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
IF NV manages to get to a 750MHz core, how much further do you think it can overclock? As in, what are the ranges of clock speeds for chips normally of this complexity?
Such as..if the fastest chip they get from the fab can reach say 775MHz the slowest one will still be able to reach what? (from the same spin of course) Is there a normal percentage range?
Thanks, photoshopped Clinton face inside the outline of Obama. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil
BTW, my wife and I like your avatar.
Let's add another IF and say "IF you raise the voltage, will it overclock more ?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Your_Boss
You guys need to get a drink and go watch a good movie with your girl/wife/family.
Not raising the voltage..SAME VOLTAGE! What's the range?Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
And I was watching a good movie to come back to a condesending post.:down:
I try to rephrase my question..
What percentage of chips would have to hit their 'target speed' before they say, "Yes, we've hit our target speed"? 10%, 20%, 50%? And AFTER they've reached this target speed...what's the RANGE of the lowest possible speed from this respin of that aren't defective? (let's say top tier)
I'm just looking for a possible range for a chip of this complexity. Or is there NO way of knowing?
Let's say they settled on a voltage for the top speed chips and only 1 out of 10,000 will hit 800MHz at this 'stock voltage'...obviously this would be the absolute MAX speed for this chip at this voltage and they of course would never advertise it at this speed. My question is... with a perfect non-defect chip what would the lowest speed be for a perfect chip? 600MHz? less? more? Would ALL perfect chip be able to make it over at least a certain speed? There is a 'range' just wondering what an estimated range would be. Thanks. :)