Bowmans Mod Shop

well since my date was out of town tonight,,i stayed home and did some work..

tried a couple differant ways to use the peltier..one was air cooled heatsink....waste of time..:( the 226 pelt produces so much heat i dont gain what i want....

so next water cooled...i had a test setup setting so i tried my idea with that..it works alot better.

i took a copper pelt plate and made a holder for the drier and brased it all up....

after i clean it up it should look good...:D

here is a pic...it will take the drier to below freezing without insulation and with a poor water cooling loop..

How about setting the pelt so it is cooled by the same compressor that your are running to cool the block simmilar to the method used in a compound cooling system.

Hey Garry and folks! I've been following multiple threads in this forum during the last couple of weeks and I'm really impressed with your work! :D
However, could be please tell me and LukeK what condenser the new one is you"re using in the prommy mod? :stick:

And what about infos on bakers pre insulated block information? Haven't heard anything about that topic lately. I thought you wanted to do some testing and present a couple of pics???
Please.... :slobber:

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ya gary a good one i would use is like a laser chiller....they are a series of pelts lined up on either side of a steel plate(or copper..) and the pelts cool the plates which in turn cool the water...people have used them for water chillers for there watercooling.... to be exact my man S_I_N over at extremeoverclocking has one that he uses dual psu's to power the like 12 50watt tecs or something dont quote me on that but iknow hes runnin the pelts in a series.. ill see if he can post here to help out

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That sounds like what I had in mind. Water cooling the pelts defeats the purpose. Ultimately, the ideal would be to replace the condenser with the air cooled pelts.

Do you have pics, or a link?

How bout this?
it needs a circuit to control the input current to the pelt based on the hot side temperature.. Like a hi limit clamp.

http://www.blairwing.com/images/Peltsubcooler.jpg

Evap and cooler use on both sides for pelt. I have the autocad of this if you want to CNC it.
http://www.blairwing.com/images/Block2.jpg

The whole point of the exercise is to condense below ambient temp. You are transferring heat from one part of the system to another, with added heat from the pelt. While effectively subcooling, this is counter-productive to the goal. In your diagram, remove the pelt and you are better off subcooling-wise, but it is still counter-productive to the goal of condensing below ambient.

well gary is correct...we cannt expect the stock prom unit to handle the extra heat load to cool the pelt.it will be counter productive.i already have thought that one out...

some of you guys really dont know how hot a pelt gets do you?man they are hot...i was pelt cooling for years and they put out some heat.this one pelt puts out more heat than the entire cpu unit the prom is tring to cool.

it may still be possable for a large cfm fan to cool the air pelt..i am still going to try that.and or change the pelt size.you see once the hot side of the pelt reaches a certain point it cant cool so it just stops cooling.this one reached temps over 140f on the hot side and was barely able to keep the cold side below room temp...with the fans i tried real quick.

i know water cooling isnt what i wanted..but this one is for someone with a water cooler loop and i was told i could use the water cooling loop if nessary so i am going to do what i need to to get this project to work.

actual testing is the only anser.and i will doing alot of it.:D

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Originally posted by Freezer
Hey Garry and folks! I've been following multiple threads in this forum during the last couple of weeks and I'm really impressed with your work! :D
However, could be please tell me and LukeK what condenser the new one is you"re using in the prommy mod? :stick:

And what about infos on bakers pre insulated block information? Haven't heard anything about that topic lately. I thought you wanted to do some testing and present a couple of pics???
Please.... :slobber:

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first off..welcome to the forum:toast:

tonight i will be showing a new baker evap and mounting system on a unit i am working on..so be patient..is had been curing overnight.

the condensor i posted isnt avalable..it came off a custom unit i had...but...there are going to be some condensors out very soon for the public to buy easily i am told....i am told i am getting some to test..so we will see...:D
i proberly going to need one for a project down the road...

Being that the pelt must dissipate a large amount of heat with very small surface area, it would need to concentrate the airflow also. I am wondering if a squirrel cage type fan, as opposed to propellor type fan, would be more appropriate. And/or if there are pelts with similar ratings, but having much larger surface areas.

Large surface areas, on both hot and cold sides, would be ideal for our purposes.

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Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Being that the pelt must dissipate a large amount of heat with very small surface area, it would need to concentrate the airflow also. I am wondering if a squirrel cage type fan, as opposed to propellor type fan, would be more appropriate. And/or if there are pelts with similar ratings, but having much larger surface areas.

Large surface areas, on both hot and cold sides, would be ideal for our purposes.

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well good idea..a squirrel cage type may work better and it may fitt better...

will check into this ...:D

I occurs to me that manufacturers of air cooling tec products, such as picnic coolers, would have similar concerns (maximum surface area and concentrated airflow). We might look at how they do it.

I was presuming you were using a sc12mlx compressor running R410 the pelt idea was just a thought exersize. If you are going to use pelts to suppliment a condenser why not replace it entirley. You could effectively increase the condenser td to 30degf and condense r410 at 50 degf using 4x175 w pelts. and a 1/4inch condenser plate from lytron(they make an Stainless tube sheet, basically a flat plate.) I know how hot pelts get especially when the are under a load.


And using a thermister driven SCR you could cool the condenser proportional to the temperature.

I don't see where 700 watts of cooling is needed for 150-200 watts of load. Am I missing something?

The scr driven pelts will control the load, it would have more to do with the surface area than anything else. If you then reduce the voltage to the pelts then you get less cooling.... you need to keep the voltage above the devices barrier voltage
The control circuit would have to be a thermister and a few other components.. If we could get the condensing temp to -20 with the pelts then we could even use a higher pressure gas Like penthane. and then the prommis would be a cascade with the first satge a pelt samwich possiably in the same space as the current condenser.
I have been batting this around for a few months. An upgrade kit for the prommie to a cascade. I ordered a bunch of pelts the real problem is the condenser. Lytron has a plate that would work but 300 is too much to spend. I may call my gundrilling friend in maine to dril a 3/8 inch copper plate with 1/4 inch holes and then braze u tubes into it, or build a manifold or mill it or something...

well i was just trying to see how simple it was to run 410 on a prom..as far as the pelt goes....

but i just ran accros a little something this morning...i have been playing with refirgerant mixtures..ever since i was using co2 in my cascade...

so guys whats the coldest ever seen temp on a prom with stock compressor and condensor...?

little hint....hi side runs 250 and low side 16 hg....

not sure how a load will work...but...she is cold....-92f on the evap so far....this is something i stumbled accoss by acident:D

and i am very happy...:toast:

edit:::i am not feeling safe about the temp readout..i am going to have to pull out my fluke to double check.,,these temps seam impossable..even to me...i just watched her go to -98f....got to put the fluke on for a check...i am using a j type coupler but that doenst mean it isnt shorted or bad...always a good idea to run more tests...have to go out to buy some food for the week..so wont be back until tonight later.....:D

What refrigerants are you using?

Hi I'm S_I_N from over at EOCF Pimpsho e-mailed me about this I'm not sure if this will help but its the best pic I can find if the Photons core. Its basically a medical laser chiller that was modified to use in a computer chiller. Its a massive heatsink that has 10*55watt tecs attached to a tube that the water flows thru. This setup requires 12@25amps per series of tecs this one has 2 series. I am using 2 500 watt psus that I modified for only 12v use they both carry 34amps so I should be way under a 75% load on them.

This pic shows the core from the side you can see its a pretty big unit on the front side you can see the twin 120's that are used to cool the heatsinks that take the heat away from the tecs. On top under all that wiring and the fan is a 1/2" 90degree barb that allows water in ...on the bottom is a similar barb for the waters exit. This core can freeze water if the heat load on the water is not sufficent to maintain above freezing. I am currently running the chiller on an AMD64 setup with a single block for the cpu only and freezing has been an issue. so I just power the core on and off for now til I am done fixing things up to add heatload. I dont like antifreeze in my water mix cant stand the smell of it heheh. If you have any questions for me pm me here as I do check here from time to time or pm me at EOCF I'm normally found there hehe. I'll be rebuilding the chillers case again her in the nezt few days/weeks I'll be able to provide better pics of the core if wanted.

dope forgot the pic lol

Hey dont shoot me,but how about cooling the drier with suction line?Or shoud i stop drinking too much coffe?:)

http://www.blairwing.com/images/plate.jpg
http://www.blairwing.com/images/sink.jpg

Pelts on the plate and attach the fins and fan,,,

i was saying from the beginning these large pelts take a large heat sink...and there isnt room for one that size...that thing is as large as the prom itself almost...

i have seen those units on ebay...but the size has been my issue.

It may not need to be that large. For one thing, it has probably twice the capacity we need. And we don't know what is inside the box. I would sure like to see what is in there.

heres what the core looks like from the frontal view

I did a little checking on th epelts and they are not stable enough for what I had in mind. Maybe when the next generation of them are available.

well guys becareful when using too many types of thermocouplers like i do...i found out why my one meter was off at low end...i had a j type on a k type meter..LOL

after i double checked with the all mighty fluke..i found out why...

and becarefull too when using refrigerant...

i had a slight accident tonight..i reached over to open the valve on one of by bottles of 404 and was upside down..i fogot i had removed the hose....:(

i got a full liquid blast of 404 in my wrist...and man does it hurt right now...wrist is swealing and i have no feeling in it other than the pain under the skin...i got a feeling i just frost bite myself most likely...skin is red and tight ....man i hate not paying attention:(

I've been frost bit skiing in New hampshire. -35F and 35 mph gusts,,, You need to apply a grease based salve like neosporin to it. It will hurt worse for a few minuets, but it will heal ten times faster...

And it will peel just like a sunburn.

Don't do that, it hurts.

Ya gotta teach these kids everything. ;)

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Originally posted by bowman1964
i got a full liquid blast of 404 in my wrist...and man does it hurt right now...wrist is swealing and i have no feeling in it other than the pain under the skin...i got a feeling i just frost bite myself most likely...skin is red and tight ....man i hate not paying attention:(

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You're not alone. My R507 and R410A is stored in old receivers, thus no valves on them. Usually I screw on the hose until it just starts to hiss, then I tightly push the seal to the schraeder and tighten the nut.

Guess what happens when the rubber seal is totally worn out? Exactly, nice frost-covered fingers.

I hope your hand feels better soon bowman! we need you working on those sick mods again lol. So, Is this Ultimate Prommie gonna be a super low unit or a dual evap unit?....have u decided or am i just retarded and missed something in the thread.

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Originally posted by LukeK
I hope your hand feels better soon bowman! we need you working on those sick mods again lol. So, Is this Ultimate Prommie gonna be a super low unit or a dual evap unit?....have u decided or am i just retarded and missed something in the thread.

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yea it is going to peal most likely..but is fine today...:)

well i was getting opinions on a super low temp unit or a dual...

so far i get more people wanting to see a dual evap unit...that one is easy for me tuning wise since i pretty much can do muliples in my sleep...but being in one small unit and with the gpu evap so close to the bottom of a case...it may be tight....

if i do the dual..it will look like a factory unit if i possable can do it...proberly do the alum case conversion getting a dual temp display or getting the factory lcd unit to read them both may be the biggest problem...

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if i do the dual..it will look like a factory unit if i possable can do it...proberly do the alum case conversion getting a dual temp display or getting the factory lcd unit to read them both may be the biggest problem...

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Man that would be awesome...dual display one on top the other in the Lian case! That would really draw some traffic to the site too.:thumbsup:

well which ever u choose (cou-superlowtempvote-gh)...im sure it will be top notch work like always.....a dual LCD would be cool though and Dude is right mucho traffic indeed.

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Originally posted by bowman1964
yea it is going to peal most likely..but is fine today...:)

well i was getting opinions on a super low temp unit or a dual...

so far i get more people wanting to see a dual evap unit...that one is easy for me tuning wise since i pretty much can do muliples in my sleep...but being in one small unit and with the gpu evap so close to the bottom of a case...it may be tight....

if i do the dual..it will look like a factory unit if i possable can do it...proberly do the alum case conversion getting a dual temp display or getting the factory lcd unit to read them both may be the biggest problem...

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wow bowman, is there anything you cant do?

keep a clean work area????:p:

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Originally posted by LukeK
keep a clean work area????:p:

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lol that was below the belt there;) but considering the ammount of work he does i would say his work area is very clean from the latest pictures ive seen.

yea,yea....i dont have enough room for the work i do.or the time latley it looks like.:D

in the process of building me a garage so i can move half my stuff out there...

work is all over me now and i havent been able to do much of anything:(

Bowman...I`m trying to build a phase change system in South Africa. To my knowledge no-one else here has build one before so sourcing parts has been a mare. Anyways I`ve ordered a Baker CPU and GPU block to be linked to a 1/2 HP compressor using 404a or R507. I`ve got a few questions for you.

1.) How do I mount the Baker to my CPU and GPU? Does it come with all the mounting parts for AMD and Intel or do I need to custom make one (can`t be too difficult).
2.) I`m thinking of sealing my bakers with wax. Hot dip it into the wax three or four times so that only the bottom area of the block will be bare for contact to the CPU. IYO will this prevent condensation?
3.) Will neoprene work as a good sealant against condensation where the GPU/CPU and block meet as added insualtation?

andyddr

The cpu enclosure should be available by next week. It will work on an intel mb or a64/fx51 mb.

baker18

Thanks baker. Will the CPU enclosure now be shipped standard with my order or will there be an additional cost?

This sort of business question should be handled via PM & not in open forum...thanks TheDude

YEeaaaahhhhh :banana:
The Baker Insulation is finally coming. Have been waiting forever. Just hope it won't be too expensive. What about the offer of brazed block, insulation, custom cap tube length, etc?
Is this option going to be available soon as well? I'd love it!
Oh Baker or any expert here - is the CPU block going to fit on future Intel LGA-775 socket boards?

Great work by the way!!! :D

Sorry Dude, but why if we all getting information should it not be shared? I`m sure a LOT of ppl here would like to have this question answered.

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Thanks baker. Will the CPU enclosure now be shipped standard with my order or will there be an additional cost?

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Originally posted by andyddr
Sorry Dude, but why if we all getting information should it not be shared? I`m sure a LOT of ppl here would like to have this question answered.

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Anyone who has a question about the cost of services can PM the person who is providing that service to discuss it.
The purpose of this forum is not to provide a means for people to conduct private business for profit. It is to share non business related information only.
If you not not understand what I mean by that, please PM me and we can discuss it further, but be aware that further posts about business services and costs of such services will be treated as an infraction/violation of forum rules.

K. So to get back on topic now, can someone please answer my question about the wax? Will it work or will the temps be too low?

The wax will probably shrink and crack. But as I haven't heard of anyone trying it please post results!!!!!

Thought about it a bit...won`t work `cause when I mount the block it`ll probably break the wax as I apply pressure. Maybe I should get some liquid latex from the S&M ppl nextdoor lol.

Nylon

sorry guys been out for a few days,almost a week.
had a alot of things happening at once,

someones 4 month old baby die at my sitters(which my daughter saw)
dealt with that for a couple days,with state investigation going on.while i am working on refinancing my stuff.have a new garage going up this weekend i hope.then my kids grandad had a heart attack sunday so i was spending evening at the hospital.. crazy last week or so.

i hope to catch up soon..will take days to read and catch up.

We missed you here, but don't worry about it. Sounds like you had your hands full. When it rains it pours. I know how that is. Glad to have you back and sorry about all the troubles.

If I lived closer I would help build your garage. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

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Originally posted by chilly1
If I lived closer I would help build your garage. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

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thanks would be nice...this time i am paying some guys..

i am just too busy anymore to even try and do it myself.
i have been fighting with 2 builders for 4 days so far.every day the story is ...it will be finished tonight...
putting up a steel building 31' x 24' 2 roll up doors and 2 walk in doors...should have enough room for a week or 2.

then i can get some stuff put up and out my way...:D

sounds like a nice garage! Sorry to hear about your troubles though, I hope everythings ok now.

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Originally posted by bowman1964
sorry guys been out for a few days,almost a week.
had a alot of things happening at once,

someones 4 month old baby die at my sitters(which my daughter saw)

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OMG bowman, thats terrible:( .

My condolences to the parents and I hope that your daughter is ok.

Bowman, sorry to here about your troubles... glad you're ok! :) The garage sounds super! That'll be really nice when it's finished! We miss you, you know! :)

yah theres been death in my life recently as well
2 different people died who go to my school, and one of them i kinda new.

and someone in my photo class's brother died.

Some of you will recall my son was in a terrible accident last year and saw 2 of his friends and co-workers die at the scene. He's 27 and it messed his head up for a while, nightmares and such. I hope your young daughter is handling it ok.

"garage" or bowman's new mod shop? And BTW, how is that waterblock working out for ya bowman?

Yup, you cannot escape real life, and I suppose everybody goes through this once in a while. It can also take quite some time to get over it, both for you and your kids.

Me myself had a serious traffic accident 4 years ago, and the negotiations with the insurance company are in the last stage now, so one of the guys came by to make financial offers. It has been 4 years ago, but I still have problems when I have to go through all the misery once again. Especially the fact that I am partially disabled and that it will only get worse in the future is something I don't want to think about too much.

Good luck with the garage. I bet you run out of space pretty soon there. No matter how big it is, it will fill up.

Bowman i am sorry to hear all this bed news and trouble that you head for a past week i hope all goes back to normal and wish u all the best...



to all u others i got 1 question to ask sorry if this is not the place but i didn’t wont to open up a thread just for most likely stupid question .


Well my prommy is working all good and everything except i am curious in the prommy control centre i set to -33 for my computer to power up but my computer power up soon as it hits -16 y is that?

tnx heaps

Lano

Well everything is starting to get back to normal.....:D

i will hopefully get back to some modding this weekend:D

have lots to catch up on...:p:

Hello!

Can i use baker GPU block on a r404a modded vappo PE?

Will it lower my temp mutch?

Witch cap dim and length is the best for PE ?

Witch cap dim and length is the best for Mach 2 too cooling cpu?

Witch cap dim and length is the best for Mach 2 too cooling GPU?

howe many watt is the 9800pro/XT gpu produce?


now i use a 404 mod prom at my A643200+ @2875Mhz and the 404 mod Vapo PE.

I hawe the 4. best score on the orb with 9800pro (27813p) and the fastest with 9500np. (26103p)

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Originally posted by bowman1964
Well everything is starting to get back to normal.....:D

i will hopefully get back to some modding this weekend:D

have lots to catch up on...:p:

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I have to say Ive missed this thread. ;)

hi, i have a prommy mach1 and i'm gonna mod it with r404, now it has r134a. It's the gas enough or i must change the evap too for better temps ?
sorry x my english ;)

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Originally posted by baker18
andyddr

The cpu enclosure should be available by next week. It will work on an intel mb or a64/fx51 mb.

baker18

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Any new news on the enclosure?

Quote:

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Originally posted by r4z
hi, i have a prommy mach1 and i'm gonna mod it with r404, now it has r134a. It's the gas enough or i must change the evap too for better temps ?
sorry x my english ;)

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Hi r4z :)

Add 3' of .028" to the cap tube out of the drier, and recharge R-404A. Charge until the suction return temperature nears the SST when nothing is connected to the evap. Exact amount, unkown... but in similar cutom built units, around 3 - 4 oz of R404A should do the trick.

Unless you are going to cool your video card (vertical position), leave the evap the same..


Cheers!

herefishy... couldn't do me a favor could you?

On a Promi Mk II with the 3' cap tube extension and 3-4oz of gas as quoted above, what are the high and low side pressures running at no load in a 26 to 30deg Ambient??

Bearing in mind the MkII has a longer suction line than a MkI, am I correct in assuming more than 3 to 4oz of 404 is gonna be required? Just after a ball park figure based on pressures at no load to start me off with so that I can gas to slightly above that, then get appropriate temps etc from the appropriate places to finetune (which is where I'm gonna start poking at Gary and Bowman n' the crew...)

Or am I just barking down the wrong tree??!

Hi Marci!

You know, Gary is probably having a fit right now, seeing soemone aska about pressures. :p

If you go to www.austin-industrial.com/custom_jobber.htm you will see that I have a suction return temp of -42F (-41C) with and evap temp of about -57F (-50C). So with no load, nothing connected, you should see about 10C of superheat about 6" to 9" from the compressor. When you hit the 10C of superheat, then you can see what your pressure/temps are... Establishing the (unloaded) superheat will tell what the system design (evaporator) temperature is, as determined by your compressor capacity (characteristics) and cap tube (expansion device) that you have employed.

My discharge temperature would not exceed 110F (43C), I beleive. But - relative to your pressure question... I seem to recall 210 - 225 psig, but I never really gave much thought to what the pressure was - only to make sure I wasn't going to burst any pipe! LOL After I was confident that the condenser was going to handle the load, I rarely monitor or even connect to the high side of these systems to check "pressures", I just check the discharge temperature.

Hope that helps...

Cheers!

Aye I know... but need to get some gas in there to start with, and easiest way is from an idle pressure reading... specially with no refrigerant scales so talks of weights are useless to me...

Definitely useful info there d00d!! Cheers!

Generally I rough charge the Mach II to a suction pressure (with the highside guage removed) to 5 inches of vacume (0.17 bar) and allow it to run unloaded for fifteem minuets, Then I top it off to the same amount and test underload of 100W the pressure should stay the same and the temperature will rise to -50C and stabilize you can then add or remove gas in .01CC increments to taylor your charge for best temperature. If you are using R404 or don't have a highside tap you must let the unit stand for enough time to fully equilize. You cannot ever charge these with scales as the charge is smaller than that contained in your manifold set.

Aha! Now THAT's what I wanted to here... always suspected the total charge would equate to less than a fill-line / gauges worth...!

Before all of the new refrigerants came out, I used to tell service techs to paint over the pressure scales on their gauges, and just read the temperature scales. It made their job much easier. It isn't about pressures. Its about temperatures. We use the gauges to find out what the temperatures are.

Pressures are irrelevant. It's about temperatures.

Yep, I am aware gary... i've read all yer posts, however, when there's no gas in there to start with then there aren't any temps to measure. Ya need to have gas in there to be able to get some temps out of it... so charging to an approximate pressure based reading just to get gas in the system and get it running and THEN abandonin' pressures and goin off temps seems the easiest solution to me to get you with enough gas in there to play with to be able to use temp readings to tweak the amount down to the perfect charge... unless you can give me an easier one bro! In no way will pressure readings be used for the FINAL tweaked charge or to assess whether the proper charge is attained.

I fully intend to be pokin' at you with a pile o' temp readings and a big questionmark over me head once I've got some gas in there to measure the temps there-of... just to get an initial squirt o' juice in there... ideally overcharged as removin' gas is much easier for us at this end with the equipment we have than adding...

Basically what everyone's waiting for is a step by step set of instructions going from built system but empty of gas thru the adding of the gas and measuring, with photos marked with exactly where to measure... but that's always been the cloudy issue in every discussion so far...

Y'kno what I mean fella?

Anyhoo, plan so far is to plonk a loada gas in and trickle it out til it sits as it should, for which we WILL be callin on your expertise when it comes to SST, SCT etc etc...

Good grief Marci.... You just break the vacuum, and start thing up. :confused:

nevermind...

Just static charge it to 40 psi (for 404a and 507)and fire it up, you'll need to add more for good temps but that should get it running. Oh, if your only using low side fill it slowly to give it time to equilize with the high side before you start it. Then fine tune it with temps like Gary says. :D

Stick enough refrigerant in there to bring it up to positive pressure. Start it. Add enough to make it run at the low side SST you expect to end up with. Wait until the evaporator reaches its lowest temp under heavy load, then charge by best CPU temp at heaviest load.

If you are charging without load, charge to near floodback, say 10C superheat at compressor inlet. This is the maximum safe amount of refrigerant you can put in the system. You will have to remove some of it when you have heavy load on it to get optimum performance.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Stick enough refrigerant in there to bring it up to positive pressure. Start it. Add enough to make it run at the low side SST you expect to end up with. Wait until the evaporator reaches its lowest temp under heavy load, then charge by best CPU temp at heaviest load.

If you are charging without load, charge to near floodback, say 10C superheat at compressor inlet. This is the maximum safe amount of refrigerant you can put in the system. You will have to remove some of it when you have heavy load on it to get optimum performance.

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exactly, but if you are running unloaded at 72 degF ambient and stock captube break vac with a little fire it up and charge to 5 inch mecury or .017 barg and this will be close and may be a little over charge. then load it up and check temperatures...

Superb guys... that's filled in all the holes in me head! Tis much appreciated... hopefully I'll be back with a new thread full o' temps n suchlike for y'all to check out!

Got 2x Prommi MkIIs and a VapoSE in the queue to be done...

Okay.... but what we're probably really getting at, is don't make putting gas in the thing and starting it up more complicated than it is!

It is not complicated!

Understood... but if you read thru this whole thread and most of the others covering the topic, that doesn't get said anywhere... prefer to see it said than to assume when dealin with a £600 piece of hardware...

Just gonna ratch thru the threads for temp measuring points for SST etc etc and I'm done... with a bit of luck I'll be regassin' on saturday!

The procedure that worked best with Proms until now consisted of the following steps:

- Braze a schraeder valve on the thingie

- Pull a vacuum, and charge until pressure is about 2 bar. Or at least positive if you have no gauges.

- Start the damn thing , and load it up.

- Add refrigerant until you pass the lowest temperature, then remove until the lowest temp is reached.

- Disconnect the evap, and check for idle superheat (floodback). This is probably OK, but check for sure.
- Done.

it's easy as that.

A sidenote: removing refrigerant with the Prom running cannot be accomplished by pushing the schraeder core. Air will rush in then.....

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removing refrigerant with the Prom running cannot be accomplished by pushing the schraeder core. Air will rush in then.....

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VacPump to Recovery Tank is the plan...

That's how I do it too.

But I still would suggest that you undercharge first, then match charge to load. O

vercharge first, then match charge could possibly damage the compressor.

Oh, and give the prom+CPU 10-15 minutes to adjust themself to the new charge before adjusting again..

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But I still would suggest that you undercharge first, then match charge to load. O

vercharge first, then match charge could possibly damage the compressor.

Oh, and give the prom+CPU 10-15 minutes to adjust themself to the new charge before adjusting again..

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Absolutely.

And the undercharge strategy would be crucial when charging a chiller, because it can take a long time for the coolant to chill to lowest temp, and that is when an overcharge can destroy the compressor.

Righty... undercharge it is then!

well glad to see my thread can almost run its self...LOL:D

been busy guys...working and my too children that are now 14 and 11 and taking my time to a new leval...but i have done a 410 prom now and it works...

not much to say as i need to fine tune it....it worked so much easier than i thought it would....

have a new prom moded to a baker block (404a)and new mounting system....with a dead on simpson temp meter....within + or - .02f of my newest calibrated fluke 51..it runs a cool -62f on startup and a easy -52f under a load....

i will try tommorow night to post a pic of the 410c prom and the new baker block prom...

Glad to see you back in action. Hope everything is well at the home front.

baker18

Definitely glad it's quieting down for you...now you can get back to benching yourself. And my thanks to the B&B brothers for helping with the project.

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Originally posted by Marci
Superb guys... that's filled in all the holes in me head! Tis much appreciated... hopefully I'll be back with a new thread full o' temps n suchlike for y'all to check out!

Got 2x Prommi MkIIs and a VapoSE in the queue to be done...

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Marci mate...make it 3 x Mach II

Phoned you guys months ago and u didnt know of any details then...i have been checking closely as well as the thread in the o-c.uk forum...

As soon as you sort these 2 mach 2s sucessfully count me in as well...

U gonna be using R507 or 404a then?

well i promised some pics of a baker block modded prommie and here they are...

this is a 404a mod..baker's newest block and enclosure..

this first pic is unloaded at startup..
edit:this readout is in F not C degrees

second pic is running loaded...

this pic show the new enclosure and swivel mounting head...

this pic shows the evap face and bottom of the enclosure...

Somebody will be very happy with his new toy...............

baker18

yes i believe someone will be very glad to own this!! whos this one going to bowman?

Bowman, where is that temperature probe located on the evap?

Okay heres my day

-Me buys prommy-
-Me tests prommy-
-Me wants prommy modded-
-Me is joking like hell-

Bowman/Baker what part on that enclosure turns? Is it just the square base or the whole thing??

It's really fascinating to watch this hardware evolve in Bowmans' very capable hands. The new swivel head is a simple but brilliant solution to an important problem.
It's already been proven that certain large companies monitor this thread and others in here for their R&D. I would not be at all surprised to see these innovations surface in upcoming releases of their product.
I know Bowman well and consider him a close personal friend. He doesn't do it for the money. He does it for the pure joy and satisfaction it brings him, as do most Master Craftsmen.
I know there must be a lot of cost involved but I wish Bowman and others in here could protect their ideas and improvements by copywrite or some other legal means to prevent their labor from being used to put money in someone elses less than deserving pockets. ;)

Easy enough done.... simply do all the technical drawings for the product, sign em, date em, mail the technical drawings to yourself by a registered method of delivery which requires a signature. Post em to yourself. When they arrive DON'T open them.

This now classes as dated proof of who and when the idea was conceived etc and can be used for basic copyright proof etc.

Now if you ever see the idea copied etc you can simply produce the sealed package to the courts etc... as long as yours is dated (ie: date of posting) before anyone elses, you win!

Really? I don't know anything about such things, but if this will hold up, I would suggest everyone do it! :D
Thanks Marci!

Lots of luck on that one. You can get around a copyright with just the slightest changes. I've been down the patent road, too. Same story, but cost me a lot more money.

Imitators win, innovators lose. That's just the way it is.