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The INQ reports that first engeneering samples of Socket AM2 processors will appear late February.
Socket F processors will appear in April-May. Not only there will be quad-core ones but also with DDR3 (!!!). I guess AMD droped FB-DIMM cos of huge latencies which would definatly kill advantage of on-die mem controller.
Source
Not too long to wait till few lucky guys gets those to show`em to the world :p:
mmmm and where is the memory if they want to roll it out in may? are they crazy??? if this is true perhaps NNSTEP is right too but time will say
Looks like they might beat Intel with DDR3. Interesting.
this also means no new socket until almost 2007 i dont see memory makers showing their DDR3 sticks
???
This seems unlikely, when they say Socket F in April/May are they meaning release or ES? Because I have seen Socket F ES working...
Also I think DDR3 is unlikely
Bring your own
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...CMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
/me waits for nnstep to post. :)
:rolleyes: Who said it baby :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
lol time will say i dont believe in the inquierer even if they says today is tuesday...
i really hope amd is smart enough to use ddr3
skip that ddr2 crap and lets get some 1.1ns memory modules!!
~2000mhz memory speed would work quite fast id imagine!
well i guess 1000mhz and much better timings would be better
wonder what kind of timings ddr3 could obtain in the 800-1000mhz range?
should be better then ddr 2 if the ram has headroom to 2000mhz hahaha
Last I checked 6-6-6-14 @ 1000mhz
but the bad timings don't matter much when you talk about 3 or more Cores.. now is the time for MAX bandwidth.. because Quad Cores are going to be UBER hungry for Bandwidth
just checked samsungs site on thier bj11 chips here
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...K4J52324QC.htm
looks like cas 4 is supported but im sure the speed is hugely degraded maybe 1000-1200mhz?
atleast it is supported so wecan know it does run at that latency.
this is a graphics ram chip so im sure when they make desktop memory chips they will be cas 3-3-3 or 4-4-4 or possiblymuch better like 3-2-2 or 2-3-3 or something because graphics chips usually have huge latency because latency isnt much factor at all in graphics card speed and has very little role unless you really loosen the timings hehe
Well FB-DIMM 4-channel delivers 17GB/s B/W :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
And there isn`t anything sad about AM2 socket`s mem controller ;)
We will have to see.. But now no one can say I have no reason to think DDR3 :p:
You people are missing one critical thing:Quote:
Originally Posted by brandinb
DDR3 has absolutely nothing to do with GDDR3.
They are totally different architecture: GDDR3 is an evolved GDDR2 - which itself is just a modified DDR2.FB-DIMM adds one clock latency...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
FB-DIMM is great because the memctrl is "partly" on the DIMM -> DRAM support depends on what buffer chip is on the DIMM, cpu's integrated memctrl doesn't even need to know from what DRAM generation chips it gets its bandwidth.
Plus, FB-DIMM system is not that expensive compared to a conventional system. The buffer chip will make DIMM price soar, BUT server board prices will get a price cut because simplified DRAM tracing (less PCB layers).I'm sorry, I thought you claimed M2/AM2 would be DDR3?Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
You forget M2 comes out after Socket F.. which means they would have to be retarded not to use DDR3 as well
nn_step,
It would be a commercial suicide for AMD to go DDR3 with M2.
Three reasons:
I
II
III
You see any DDR3 floating around?
Besides, DDR3 bandwidth premium is useless to A64, not to mention the price premium.
And ofcourse there's this FACT that the friggin company itself states they are going DDR2 with M2.
http://www.amdcompare.com/prodoutlook/
There is no way we are going to see DDR3 for CPUs this early in the year... Maybe in December or early 2007, but right now its far too expensive and demand is far too low. Look at demand of DDR vs DDR2... even though DDR2 has been around for a while, DDR is still what people are interested in by a large margin. Who the heck would buy DDR3 now?
Besides, this is what samsung has on their charts from Nov '05.. and they are currently the number 1 producers of DRAM.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1138616651
What we are more likely to see this year is 1GBit chips (2 GBit for 2007)...
It would make a lot of sense for AMD to delay the new socket to coincide with DDR3. Why waste time with middle ground? Unless they build the next socket to be 2 and 3 compatible. (Like ATI has done with dx10, unless Iam horribly misinformed).
However, AMD is a conservative company. they are not going to rush to market with DDR3 until they are positive that it is ready. If they go with ddr2 then have faith that it was the best choice.
(IT would really burn people that are stocking up on DDR2 now to get ready for the demand when AMD releases the ddr2 compatible systems too ;) )
ahha thanks for pointing that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by largon
so there is no chance they would use the same type of chips?
atleast ive seen graphics cards with the exact same ddr and sdram chips as system memory on low end graphics cards so to me it would seem possible no?
FB-DIMM has 200ns latency. Todays Opteron mem subsystem has 50-60 ns latency. DDR2 has ~100ns (just my thought).Quote:
FB-DIMM adds one clock latency...
DDR2 ECC 533 has theoretical B/W 8.5 GB/s in dual-channel mode. FB-DIMM has 17GB/s in quad-channel mode. But it`s latency puts whole conception of on-die mem controller in to nothing.
BTW there are already DDR2 ECC 667 (10.2GB/s B/W !) which speed really advantages performance on AMD64 system despite it`s latency. And it doesn`t cost much. Might be good idea to use quad-channel mem controller with DDR2 667 - FB-DIMM will be eating dust :p:
If AMD will use FB-DIMMs - Opteron based systems will loose in performance compared to todays ones.
I still believe fb dimm will be targetted at the 4 and 8 way market, and for applications that require extreme stability and large ammounts of memory. Performance opteron workstations will probably use ddr2 whether in unbufferred, or ecc forms.
Heh. I have no idea where I pulled that "1 clock latency" from. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
But 200ns seems a bit high. Would you happen to have some links to exact number?
I googled abit and found this memforum's presentation :
(no scale for the latency)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1138720722
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1138720740
Something from xbitlabs:
That's about 40-50ns at DDR800 from AMB alone. Add DDR2 latency on top of that you'd be around 120ns.Quote:
A source among the memory makers said the FB-DIMMs will have 30-40 cycles access time, which is similar to the RDRAM.
:shrug:GDDR_ chips can't be used as system memory. They are waaayyyy too wide for system memory use.Quote:
Originally Posted by brandinb
For example GDDR3 is organised internally as x32 -> one system memory dimm with GDDR3 would be living hell for a memctrl to drive because one x32 GDDR3 dimm equals to 4 (yes, four) x8 DDR DIMMs.
This article really pissed me off. Everything stated in it is completely and utterly false.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
FBdimms are on socket F and will remain that way. It will launch with FBdimm-DDR2
The ES dates are off as well, in addition to the launch date. I do know what they are and can wholly say that everything that this article said is total bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:
The reason why Socket F was delayed was *NOT* because they are going to use DDR3. Let me repeat this one more time it will not use ddr3. We will not see DDR3 used until atleast 2007. This isnt coming from the inq this is coming from the manufacturers themselves.
Socket F will eventually use FBDimm-DDR3 however it will require a socket refresh for desktop since it does not use an FBdimm type ram.
The reason it was delayed is that the bridge chip on the FBdimms had serious heat/power issues that prevented it from being approved by JEDEC until up to this point.
Socket F and M will be released at the same time. ie June of this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
Socket-F and Socket (A)M2/S1 will all use DDR2.
I have seen Socket-F ES with DDR2 working. AMD does not have the resources (not by a long shot) to develop both DDR2 memory controllers and DDR3 or FB-DIMM memory controllers.
DDR3 or FB-DIMM is something of the future.
AMD said themselves DDR3 and FB-DIMM have been put on hold till 2007, they simply do not see any advantages that outway the disadvantages at this time.
Also Socket F will be released within months, M2 will be later this year. S1 will prolly be end of this year.