Trying to choose DDR-III Memory Modules for 32 GB RAM (4 * 8 GB)

I don't know if this place is the correct to post this Thread because it looks to be mostly for just overclocking results. If so, move this where it belongs.


Currently, I have an Athlon II X4 620 Deneb RB-C2 with an ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO, and a GSkill Ripjaws F3-10666CL8D-4GBRM 2x2 GB 1333 MHz kit. I would want to update my computer, but I'm not gonna change platforms until I make sure that the IOMMU virtualization feature works properly on parts that I could purchase, and besides, both Haswell and Richland are around the corner, so I prefer to wait then upgrade the platform after they launch. What I can upgrade right now, is the RAM, as DDR-III still can kick for two more generations, so I would reuse the new modules. So the idea is to go for a solid 32 GB of RAM with four 8 GB modules that will suffice for all my virtualization and RAMDisks needs.

First, because I don't live in the USA, I have quite limited choices locally. However, I was thinking about the possibility of import some good modules with a middleman, there are some that get orders from Newegg and Amazon. Problem is that it usually takes 3 weeks to ship, AND because its rare that they test the parts, if they arrive DOA or I need to make use of the warranty, I'm screwed, because they have to ship it back to the manufacturer and the whole process could easily delay an entire two months. This means that they must be really worth it for me to do that.

Basically, what I'm looking for, is good a price-performance 4 * 8 GB kit or standalone modules. 1600 MHz is the standard, but considering that Richland is among possible upgrade options, it could make use of faster speeds for the GPU, so higher Frequencies are welcome if prices are reasonable. I'm not interesed in extreme overclocking or anything like that, and while I can overclock, I would aim for average or conservative values that guarants stability for 24/7 operation, so I will not push them too much.

The choice will be made upon availability (If you guys thinks that local options suffice), and price-performance. An example of modules that I would greatly consider are those value kits that uses curiously high bins like these Samsung Green. Curiously enough, the closest thing I saw at 8 GB modules are these two Crucial BallistiX modules, BLT8G3D1608ET3LX0 (1600 MHz 8-8-8-24 1.35V) and BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0 (1600 MHz 9-9-9-24 1.35V) that seems comparable to the Samsung Green, but I have no references if they are good or not.

Budget is around the 2000-2300 pesos. For reference, the middleman told me that the first BallistiX module, that cost 55 U$D at Newegg, could be imported for 570$ and it can fit my budget. This means that it should be around 220 U$D.


Current local options are:


CORSAIR
Vengeance CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10 / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 10-10-10-27 / 1.5V - 1120$ * 2


GSKILL
RipjawsX F3-10666CL9D-16GBXL / 2 * 8 GB / 1333 MHz / 9-9-9-24 2N / 1.5V - 1100$ * 2
RipjawsX F3-12800CL10D-16GBXL / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 10-10-10-30 2N / 1.5V - 1150$ * 2
RipjawsX F3-1600C9D-16GXM / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 9-9-9 2N / 1.5V - 1160$ * 2

RipjawsZ F3-12800CL9Q2-32GBZL / 4 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 9-9-9-24 2N / 1.5V - 2300$
RipjawsZ F3-14900CL9Q2-32GBZL / 4 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 9-10-9-28 2N / 1.5V - 2400$

Sniper F3-1600C9D-16GSR / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 9-9-9-24 2N / 1.5V - 1050$ * 2
Sniper F3-1866C10D-16GSR / 2 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 10-11-10-30 2N / 1.5V - 1086$ * 2
Sniper F3-1866C9D-16GSR / 2 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 9-10-9-28 2N / 1.5V - 1270$ * 2

TridentX F3-2400C10D-16GTX / 2 * 8 GB / 2400 MHz / 10-12-12-31 2N / 1.65V - 1457$ * 2


PATRIOT

Patrior Viper 3 PV316G213C1K / 2 * 8 GB / 2133 MHz / 11-11-11-30 / 1.5V - 1389$ * 2
Patrior Viper 3 PV316G186C0K / 2 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 10-11-10-30 / 1.5V - 1352$ * 2
Patriot Viper 3* / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz - 1288$ * 2
Patrior Viper 3* / 4 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz - 2624$
* For both, it could be either the CAS 9 or CAS 10 version, don't have the actual OPN


Its very, very probable, that tomorrow I grab the Sniper F3-1600C9D-16GSR for 2100$ (Aprox. 210 U$D). But in case I don't, chances are I consider importing other modules.

You may want to check your owner's manual as the specs for the ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO show that it only supports up to 16GB. of 1800 MHz. DDR3 RAM. 16GB. is more than most people will ever use unless you are running a RAM disk or have software that can actually use more RAM. You should also check the O/S that you are using to be sure it can use 16GB. of RAM.

1600 MHz. DDR3 RAM is all that is needed for a typical desktop CPU but for an APU then up to ~2133 MHz. shows modest improvments. Your mobo may or may not be able to support much higher than 1800 MHz. depending on the CPU and RAM used but you would have some reserve for a future upgrade. As far as performance there is no tangible system performance gains on a desktop CPU running RAM above 1600 MHz. with real apps.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131398

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

You may want to check your owner's manual as the specs for the ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO show that it only supports up to 16GB. of 1800 MHz. DDR3 RAM. 16GB. is more than most people will ever use unless you are running a RAM disk or have software that can actually use more RAM. You should also check the O/S that you are using to be sure it can use 16GB. of RAM.

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Don't believe everything the manual says. This Motherboard was launched even before 8 GB sticks existed, heck, 4 GB modules were rare back then, so it makes sense they said "16 GB maximum" as they couldn't test with 32 GB. However, what matters the most here is the Integrated Memory Controller, and while I'm not sure about a Deneb RB-C2, I did saw Thubans and Denebs RB-C3 with 32 GB. I'm confident it will work, unless I hit a rare compatibility wall. Chances are that I will have to run them at 1066 MHz due this.
If anything, I will try to search for anyone with a 7xx Chipset era Motherboard with 4 * 8 GB just to be sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

1600 MHz. DDR3 RAM is all that is needed for a typical desktop CPU but for an APU then up to ~2133 MHz. shows modest improvments. Your mobo may or may not be able to support much higher than 1800 MHz. depending on the CPU and RAM used but you would have some reserve for a future upgrade. As far as performance there is no tangible system performance gains on a desktop CPU running RAM above 1600 MHz. with real apps.

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I'm aware of all that. Still, the point comes to how much the modules cost. If the difference between standard 1600 MHz modules and better quality, higher bins isn't that much, I wouldn't mind spending a bit more for 1866-2133 MHz regardless that they provide no real life improvements. They STILL are a better Hardware part.

Stay away from any modules based on Micron ICs (Crucial is Micron).
Their ICs do no work properly on any AMD IMC since 12h.

For 15h parts (Kaveri, Richland, Trinity, Vishera, Zambezi) you want either Hynix or Samsung based modules.
KHX16LC9K2/16X for example is always based on 1.35V Hynix MFR variant.

On APUs the timings are completely irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the frequency.

On Richland you should be able to do DDR-1866+ with four dual rank modules.

zir_blazer-

It's not just the chipset that must be able to work with the DIMMs you chose, the BIOS has to be able to recognize and work with the 8GB. DIMMs which isn't likely unless Asus has found some magic. As far as the higher frequency DIMMs, they may be better binned parts but if they don't offer any performance advantage why would you pay extra for something you're not going to be able to use? It's like someone buying premium fuel for an engine that is designed for regular grade fuel. Pouring more expensive fuel in the tank doesn't make any more power or produce any tangible benefit, it just empties your wallet faster. ;)

That being said, I always recommend that people buy whatever makes them happy. If faster than 1600 MHz. frequency RAM is what works for you, great that's what you should buy. The RAM sellers love people who buy the faster frequency DIMMs because their profit margin is substantially better than on the 1333/1600 MHz. DIMMs.

I have used 2x 4 GB. 1866 MHz. rated G.Skill (Nanya ICs), DIMMs on FX-8350s OC'ed to 2133 MHz. @ 4.7 GHz. with 100% reliability under P95 for 25+ hours so that's another firsthand data point on ICs that work fine on the AMD 15h FX-8350 Vishera processors. IME the IMC's on the Vishera CPUs are better than prior 15h model CPUs. I expect the Richland IMC to be better yet with 2133 MHz. a common setting.

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Curiously enough, the closest thing I saw at 8 GB modules are these two Crucial BallistiX modules, BLT8G3D1608ET3LX0 (1600 MHz 8-8-8-24 1.35V) and BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0 (1600 MHz 9-9-9-24 1.35V) that seems comparable to the Samsung Green, but I have no references if they are good or not.

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I friend has this kit on Intel IB, 4*8GB, they can do 2133 CL 10-10-10-27 1.6v and 2133 CL 9-10-10-27 about 1.65v.
Up to 1.65v it's safe, but at 100% load they heat up quite good, for intense usage a memory cooler will be good.
Not sure how they work on Athlon X4 but on Vishera see under...

Quote:

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Stay away from any modules based on Micron ICs (Crucial is Micron).
Their ICs do no work properly on any AMD IMC since 12h.

For 15h parts (Kaveri, Richland, Trinity, Vishera, Zambezi) you want either Hynix or Samsung based modules.
KHX16LC9K2/16X for example is always based on 1.35V Hynix MFR variant.

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You base your information on what?
Have you check the new 4GB/8GB modules using new chips : D9PFJ, D9QMS, D9QMT, D9OBJ?

I had Tactical LP 1600CL8 1.35v 4GB on Vishera, FX 8320+ Sabertooth 990FX rev.1
D9QMT chips.
Worked better than any other memory, even some PSC was har to stabilise at 2400.
2400 CL 10-10-10-24 1.6v Memtest stable.
Hynix CFR at least with Vishera doesn't work well, a 2666C11 Corsair kit merely did 2400.

Now on 8GB modules 1600CL8 are other chips than on 4GB, but still Micron, have same comportament only they stop at 2200.

Crucial memory at high capacity it's quite cheap and good performance.
http://i46.tinypic.com/308up6s.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/vg3mls.jpg

For the record the only frequency DDR3 DRAM that actually exists is "1333 MHz." Any other faster DDR3 RAM is just RAM that has been binned to operate at a higher frequency, quite by accident, not by design.

Thus you can have DDR3 RAM that runs at one frequency on one processor and not another or on one series of processors and not on another, etc. All the frequency rating on RAM actually means is that the particular DIMM or set of DIMMs were tested by the supplier on whatever equipment they use to validate frequency and it would run on their test equipment to the specs they use for testing. It doesn't mean that it will run on all processors or all systems even if you have the same exact hardware components as used for a given validation test, because in reality any ability to operate above the 1333 MHz. design standard, is by chance, not by design, regardless of how the RAM is advertised or sold, because you are actually running the RAM overclocked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xdan

You base your information on what?
Have you check the new 4GB/8GB modules using new chips : D9PFJ, D9QMS, D9QMT, D9OBJ?

I had Tactical LP 1600CL8 1.35v 4GB on Vishera, FX 8320+ Sabertooth 990FX rev.1
D9QMT chips.
Worked better than any other memory, even some PSC was har to stabilise at 2400.
2400 CL 10-10-10-24 1.6v Memtest stable.
Hynix CFR at least with Vishera doesn't work well, a 2666C11 Corsair kit merely did 2400.

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On experience.
I've tested Kingston and Crucial D9PJF / D9QMS (?) based modules.

They seem to put alot more stress on the IMC than any other ICs.
They do work but you usually need either to run in single channel or turn off the bank interleaving.
Atleast on >12h based APUs.

Hynix works great on all AMD IMCs, as do basically any other ICs than the ones made by Micron.
The timings on Hynix usually require a bit more work thou ;)

Well D9PFJ might be a little bad but D9QMT on Tactical LP 1600CL8 1.35v works. That screen with Memtest was only single channel but after that i bought another module they work dual chanel on Vishera, no problem.
See picture under.
D9PFJ and D9QMT are quite different. And what's on LP 8GB modules it's closer to D9QMT.
D9QMT works at much lower voltage.
Also the motherboard it's important, on Gigabyte they didn't work just 2000Mhz, on Asus even 2500Mhz.

Quote:

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Atleast on >12h based APUs.

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Well on APUs its a little different in special if you are using the IGP.

Quote:

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Hynix works great on all AMD IMCs,

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Hynix yes but Hynix BFR at least on Vishera, i have a validation using Hynix BFR at 2912Mhz.
As for CFR as i sad a 2666C11 kit was 2400 max stable .
And a friend with 2400C11 Kingston Predator couldn't do mare than 2300 on a Gigabyte motheboard.
So not even stoc frecuency.

2490 32M 9-9-9-24 dual channel.
http://forum.lab501.ro/attachment.ph...5&d=1361626411

I am sorry but I think this is a bit funny, someone lecturing the stilt on AMD lol. haha actually it isn't very funny, you think he only uses gigabyte boards or something? and only tested a few CPUs? lol
he is telling you what he found, even if the IMC wont fully support it doesn't mean it wont work and wont validate, but the guy doesn't want to validate he wants to run stable.

Absolutely,the stilt is one of the most skillfull and helpful people i've ever seen in www ,teaching him how things work on amd platforms is like explaining relativity theory to albert einstein lol :D

I'm teaching nobody, nothing.
I'm not have a big experience on AMD, only Vishera used 4-5 months.
D9PFJ Kingston kits are not so good as Crucial, and even Crucial may be a big difference kit from kit some kits can't do may be even more than 2000Mhz.
Tactical LP are completly stable at least on Vishera - Memtest stable at 2400 10-10-10-24 1.62v.
I used them 4-5 months on same platform.

Quote:

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Stay away from any modules based on Micron ICs (Crucial is Micron).
Their ICs do no work properly on any AMD IMC since 12h.

For 15h parts (Kaveri, Richland, Trinity, Vishera, Zambezi) you want either Hynix or Samsung based modules.

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This sentence isn't true completly just that i wanted to say. For the Vishera things are not quite so.

And also Hynix CFR doesn't work so good on Vishera. On Deneb, Llano, i don't know.
On Deneb anyway you can't do more than 1700-1800 24/7.


D9PFJ on Vishera -still i wouldn't say that it's fully stable i used them only 7-10 days before selling them.
I know to run 24/7 stable, it's more than to be Memtest, Prime or whatsoever stable.
http://forum.computergames.ro/attach...5&d=1365004202

While Stilt has most definitely been helpful and is very knowledgeable, his opinion is not always 100% accurate. That's why it's an opinion and not a documented fact. As with everything posted or written, people should do their homework and not always blindly take comments or stories at face value, regardless of who provides the info.

In the scientific and engineering communities people qualify their comments with "IME" or "based on my testing" or "based on research from such and such". This is because people's experiences and test results are varied and may not tell the complete story. This is why I have routinely recommended that people not make blanket statements based on their limited experience, without qualifying their results or beliefs.

It's pretty difficult to argue that a specific product or configuration won't work reliably when numerous people are able to use this product or configuration without issue even under stress testing.

The shop that I was going to purchase the GSkill Snipers from, said their provider got out of stock. This means that I have at least this weekend to figure out WHAT I am going to buy. After the DRAM price shakeup one month ago, high density modules here are VERY scarse and most shops I called are either out of stock or raised substantially the price. This means that I'm more tempted to import them.

I sended an E-Mail to GSkill asking for info regarding to what ICs they use in a few parts that I could purchase locally. As expected, they told me that they can't give that information. This means that I have absolutely NO idea about what ICs are in the GSkill modules I could purchase here. Actually, for most parts it is like that, so unless someone removed the Heatspreader and post the ICs in Internet (Like this Thread here, this one on OCaholic, this on Corsair's Forums, and this database on i4memory), I can't know beforehand, unless I'm purchasing a tried-and-true module where that info is available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

Stay away from any modules based on Micron ICs (Crucial is Micron).
Their ICs do no work properly on any AMD IMC since 12h.

For 15h parts (Kaveri, Richland, Trinity, Vishera, Zambezi) you want either Hynix or Samsung based modules.
KHX16LC9K2/16X for example is always based on 1.35V Hynix MFR variant.

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I have been looking around for Hynix MFR and I didn't really found more than a few modules with it. And 32 GB are at around 350-400 U$D price range, quite out of range of my budget. Any specific model recommendation? It is hard to get specific info on a module's ICs, so if someone knows good places to get info about that it would greatly help.
Also, it doesn't have to be specifically for Richland, as Haswell is also in consideration. Depending on price, chances are that I pick Haswell due to better CPU performance, altough the last word is with what platform I'm getting better IOMMU virtualization support.


BTW, I was just checking that in the list I made, I can get the GSkill TridentX F3-2400C10D-16GTX, which uses the Samsung K4B4G0846B IC. They are out of my budget, but I can get them locally and could force it if REALLY needed.
I suppose that what could make me happy the most are good-IC, value series, 1.35V modules with higher-than-1600 MHz capabilities in case I have to put them in a Richland. Sounds hard, huh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zir_blazer

The shop that I was going to purchase the GSkill Snipers from, said their provider got out of stock. This means that I have at least this weekend to figure out WHAT I am going to buy. After the DRAM price shakeup one month ago, high density modules here are VERY scarse and most shops I called are either out of stock or raised substantially the price. This means that I'm more tempted to import them.

I sended an E-Mail to GSkill asking for info regarding to what ICs they use in a few parts that I could purchase locally. As expected, they told me that they can't give that information. This means that I have absolutely NO idea about what ICs are in the GSkill modules I could purchase here. Actually, for most parts it is like that, so unless someone removed the Heatspreader and post the ICs in Internet (Like this Thread here, this one on OCaholic, this on Corsair's Forums, and this database on i4memory), I can't know beforehand, unless I'm purchasing a tried-and-true module where that info is available.



I have been looking around for Hynix MFR and I didn't really found more than a few modules with it. And 32 GB are at around 350-400 U$D price range, quite out of range of my budget. Any specific model recommendation? It is hard to get specific info on a module's ICs, so if someone knows good places to get info about that it would greatly help.
Also, it doesn't have to be specifically for Richland, as Haswell is also in consideration. Depending on price, chances are that I pick Haswell due to better CPU performance, altough the last word is with what platform I'm getting better IOMMU virtualization support.


BTW, I was just checking that in the list I made, I can get the GSkill TridentX F3-2400C10D-16GTX, which uses the Samsung K4B4G0846B IC. They are out of my budget, but I can get them locally and could force it if REALLY needed.
I suppose that what could make me happy the most are good-IC, value series, 1.35V modules with higher-than-1600 MHz capabilities in case I have to put them in a Richland. Sounds hard, huh?

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Kingston should be easy to aqquire, all of their CL9 rated DDR-1600 2x / 4x 8GB HyperX (except some PnP) kits are Hynix MFR.
The LoVo sticks use 1.35V (C) variant of the IC, while the rest are using the 1.5V (Q) variant.
Shouldn't make much of difference thou.

For Richland... Get something that does atleast DDR-2133.
Even with four double sided modules ;)

Do you know any other brand other than Kingston where I could potentially get these ICs you recommend? I have a serious hate against Kingston because in the local market, they're almost as expensive as the cheap enthusiast-class modules (The GSkill Snipers were actually cheaper that some prices I saw for 8 GB Kingston Value). They have a ridiculous price premium over other value or generic brands, yet people prefers them. And considering that the RAM market got TONS of brands, there should be plenty of other options.

Even with the OPN of some modules in hand, is quite hard to google them because you have to evade tons of results that are about the datasheet of the module/chip it uses instead of vendors that carry them. Oh, I also found that someone asked here about 8 GB modules with Samsung ICs, here, but there wasn't any solid model. He was looking exactly the same I do now. And according to his signature, he is running with 32 GB of GSkill @ 1866 MHz, so I think I can guess that he ended with either RipjawsZ or Snipers.

Mushkin uses the Hynix CFRs on the 1866 MHz. model 997007 2x 4GB. kits. They would OC to 2133 MHz. reliably for me on a FX-8350 on an Asrock 990FX Fatality Pro.

G.Skill and many other RAM suppliers except perhaps Crucial/Micron and Samsung, use whatever ICs they can get so this is why they won't/can't tell you what ICs are on a given DIMM at any particular time.

Are you sure, may be on the newer kits from this year?
I bought this kit last year in december and it had Hynix BFR not CFR.
A did a validation at 2913Mhz.
http://i41.tinypic.com/11ilr11.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/wu5wsz.jpg


Check this review to, also BFR:
http://www.overclockzone.com/zolkorn...007/index.html

Anyway CFR works to up to 2400. So 2133 will not be a problem.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/c...py-REDUCED.jpg


Yes I am sure that the two sets of 997007 that I tested and checked the end of '12 were Hynix "CFR" ICs. As noted above, the RAM makers use whatever ICs they can get. More than likely your DIMMs were produced before the ones that I bought. To be specific the ones that I have use H5TQ2G83CFR ICs.

The problem with these 2 * 4 GB that you are using as example, is that unless they were 4 GB Single Sided so a manufacturer can do a 8 GB Double Sided version with the same ICs, when you're talking about higher density ICs, you're always talking about much less headroom. They need higher voltages, looser timmings, and can't reach high frequencies, so if you get a 8 GB module, you can't expect it to overclock like that. This means that your good experiences overclocking 4 GB modules may not apply to 8 GB parts.

BTW, I was checking around and I found an eRetailer caller RAMExperts that do international shipping and has quite a bit of variety when it comes to 8 GB modules (And I saw there some nice Mushkins). The cheapest shipping option cost just 18 U$D, but I don't know if it includes tracking (It would be my first international order ever), nor how much time it usually takes to reach here (Usually 3 weeks I hear). It needs to be a solid package that doesn't get damaged by mishandling, cheap so it doesn't increase the cost substantially, and also I must get local information about how customs office deals with these packages because there are some shipping choices that are more likely to be audited that others and if that happens, I will have to spend half a day at the customs office retrieving the goods. And I would need to ask that they get checked to be in working condition before shipping, I can't deal with an international RMA. If they have good reputation I could seriously consider them, because if I can get them shipped directly instead of using a middleman, I would be spending 50% less or so.

xdan and AMDforMe, thank you both for those IC pics. Don't want to hijack this thread, but I just have one quick question for each of you. Does CPU-Z show the mfg date for your modules and if so, will you pleae post it? AMDforME, was that date that you posted from CPU-Z, or purchase date?

...we now return to the regularly scheduled programming "Trying to choose DDR-III Memory Modules for 32 GB RAM (4 * 8 GB)". :)

I don't see any place where CPU-Z shows the date unless it's a later version than I have which is V1.63.

The date I listed was the purchase date. I don't think you can easily tell the mfg. date.

Agreed that when you go to 16+ GB. of RAM the OC'ing potential drops, as it should with more load on the IMC. That's why it's beneficial to buy a single RAM kit of the full capacity that you desire and not multiple individual DIMMs or multiple kits, which will typically require slower timings to function without error, when mixed, compared to one single kit - per Corsair.

I didn't see it either, the memory was sold, here is a picture with Cpu-z:
http://forum.computergames.ro/attach...4&d=1359624833
And i don't have a clear picture with SN(not sure if it counts like on G.Skill).
It's 0997007(which it's the kit cod)05959.....end with 0001
http://forum.computergames.ro/attach...3&d=1359624815

Writted down every 8 GB stick from Mushkin and GSkill web pages, then looked for them at Newegg.

http://pastebin.com/3y5RCmBU

Yes, it was several hours worth of work.


I suppose I will keep adding brands and looking for prices until I narrow down to just a few options at stock specs. That stupid list at least makes it easier to compare stuff from one line to another and figuring out that at least in the case of GSkill, at stock, they're mostly the same. I would love to know about ICs, but there isn't enough info about that to bother.

RAMExpert has an eBay store and DOES ship internationally. However, I have to inform myself about everything related to shipping options and our dreaded custom office.

AMD Performance Edition (1866) and Radeon Gamer 8GB modules 'should' be either Hynix MFR or Samsung B-Die ;)
I'll verify it tomorrow.