Problem With Indigo Xtreme Application

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10-17-2010, 05:32 PM
RazerMamba

Problem With Indigo Xtreme Application

I know this may sound noob, but I've failed twice trying to install IX and want some help.

I'm running an i7 920 with an EK Supreme HF Full Gold waterblock. Yeah I know the IX will algamate with it but meh, I don't really plan on taking it off often.

Anyways, like I said earlier, I've tried two applications yet both failed with the same results. I'm probably overtightening, but I'm not sure how tight or how loose to make it, I always tighten my block all the way down so that the threads on the springs are touching.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9...7002117.th.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1...002117a.th.jpg

I've also read this but I want to see other opinions so I can try them just in case this one doesn't work for me:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sRHunt3r

The best way for me is to load prime 95 with ht on and use half of the threads so on my 920 I ran 4 it does not load it 100% but heats it equally across the ihs and has less a likely hood of crashing during the reflow. That's just the way I have found to work best for me, other may have different opinions. As far as my waterblocks I tighten them down all the way down but loosen the bottom two a couple turns to help "direct" reflow across the whole chip and re-tighten them after the reflow. Again these are just the ways I have found to work best for me, others may have different methods.
10-17-2010, 07:28 PM
Circaflex

man this is why i never messed with that stuff seems like too much of a hassle for 2-3c better temps
10-17-2010, 08:15 PM
RazerMamba

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circaflex

man this is why i never messed with that stuff seems like too much of a hassle for 2-3c better temps

Technically about 4c since I'm coming off of AS5, but yeah I guess so. Once you get it done right the first time, you're good to go for however many more times you apply it cause you'll know how to do it. I just don't like the 200 hour break in time for AS5. I also don't need to re-mount often, so that's another thing.
10-21-2010, 06:25 AM
xXGearheadXx

I'll be interested in hearing the replies as well, I'm about throw the kitchen sink at my cooling system, and the IX is part of my build. It's the only part that really worries me...

On another note...It doesn't look like the stuff reflowed all the way...did the temps follow a similar path of what is shown on their reflow procedure videos?
10-21-2010, 07:48 AM
xXGearheadXx

I've done a little bit of research on the issue on Indigo's website, seems your block (and what i'll be using) fall under a category that is compatible with the product with conditions....Link below (EK supreme and my CPU 360 are at the bottom of the PDF)

http://indigo-xtreme.com/docs/ixheat...cationnote.pdf

I'm a bit confused by the instructions as well...seems you're not supposed to max out all the springs, as it recomends a "lower clamping force". It goes on to say that it is not necessary to compensate for the height of the alloy bulge before reflow, simply adjust all bolts to the same depth. i translate this as, assuming you're on a perfectly level surface (which you should be) the bulging side will be slightly higher than the non-bulging side.

onward it says, Immediately following reflow, tighten down the bulge side bolts to equal the screw in depth (definition on the link on the PDF) of the side opposite of the bulge...this is where it gets confusing, as assuming you've screwed down all bolts the same (as I indicated in my previous paragraph), the springs would extend, thus giving the same screw in depth...anyone care to help translate this?
10-21-2010, 08:08 AM
dejanh

I figure since I am responsible for the HK instructions, I may as well chime in here...

1. When mounting the block measure the screw-in depth as per Watercool instructions on the side that has no bulge. This will give you the right screw-in depth for the desired pressure.
2. After screwing in the side that has no bulge to the desired depth and pressure, measure the screw in depth from the top of the screw head down to the top of the bolt you screw the mounting screws into. This will give you a correct screw-in depth discounting the bulge and ignoring the springs (note: Watercool instructions measure from top of the screw head to the block mounting plate; this is not what you should do).
3. Screw in all screws to the same depth, ignoring the fact that the springs will be more compressed on one side of the block.
4. Re-flow.

Once re-flow is complete the block will level out and you will have a proper mount with more-less even pressure everywhere. The part that states...

"Immediately following reflow (before
turning on pump and fans), tighten down
the (2) bulge side bolts (now loose from
reflow) to equal the screw-in depth of the
(2) bolts opposite the bulge."

...only applies if you measured the screw in depth as per Watercool instructions, from the top of the screw head down to the mounting plate instead of the top of the mounting bolt.
10-21-2010, 08:28 AM
rge

Like mentioned, pic looks like incomplete reflow. Looks like springs were too tight and/or not enough time for reflow and/or not level.

I have used indigo on both EK supreme and HK, worked well on both. I screwed mine all the way down till springs fully compressed, then backed out about 2 turns on all 4 screws for both HK and EK. Used a level to make sure cpu was level. And I kept reflow conditions, ie prime 95 8 threads loaded at stock with pump off, for about 60 seconds, long enough to ensure proper reflow, even though I think in first 10 seconds reflow occurred.

The instructions just make sure level. Adjust all 4 screws to same height and towards lower end of recommended pressure. Then, after reflow you will need to tighten the two screws over the hump, since the hump will be gone causing those 2 screws to be more loose.

Edit: dejanh has great instructions for HK...RazerMamba if you can find measurements for the EK supreme hf mounting distance you can use his detailed instructions applied to EK. But you definitely need to back out couple turns from going all the way down...in fact recommended mounting pressure on HK was about 2.5 to 3 full turns backed off from fully compressed spring, ie end tightness on mine.
10-21-2010, 08:32 AM
dejanh

Quote:

Originally Posted by rge

snip...

The instructions just make sure level. Adjust all 4 screws to same height and towards lower end of recommended pressure. Then, after reflow you will need to tighten the two screws over the hump, since the hump will be gone causing those 2 screws to be more loose.

What you are saying is right if you are measuring based on Watercool instructions. If you measure the screw in depth however on the flat side of IX based on Watercool instructions to set the pressure, then measure from top of screw head to top of mounting bolt bypassing the block mounting-plate and match that on the bulge side of IX you do not need to tighten or adjust anything afterward. The block will self-level after re-flow. If one side is looser at that point in time then the re-flow really did not go properly as all of the metal was seemingly pushed out from the bulge side to the other side.
10-21-2010, 08:35 AM
xXGearheadXx

Quote:

Originally Posted by dejanh

I figure since I am responsible for the HK instructions, I may as well chime in here...

1. When mounting the block measure the screw-in depth as per Watercool instructions on the side that has no bulge. This will give you the right screw-in depth for the desired pressure.
2. After screwing in the side that has no bulge to the desired depth and pressure, measure the screw in depth from the top of the screw head down to the top of the bolt you screw the mounting screws into. This will give you a correct screw-in depth discounting the bulge and ignoring the springs (note: Watercool instructions measure from top of the screw head to the block mounting plate; this is not what you should do).
3. Screw in all screws to the same depth, ignoring the fact that the springs will be more compressed on one side of the block.
4. Re-flow.

Once re-flow is complete the block will level out and you will have a proper mount with more-less even pressure everywhere. The part that states...

"Immediately following reflow (before
turning on pump and fans), tighten down
the (2) bulge side bolts (now loose from
reflow) to equal the screw-in depth of the
(2) bolts opposite the bulge."

...only applies if you measured the screw in depth as per Watercool instructions, from the top of the screw head down to the mounting plate instead of the top of the mounting bolt.

Thanks a lot, crystal clear now.
10-21-2010, 08:44 AM
xXGearheadXx

So, if I were using something like a swiftech apogee xt waterblock (my buddy plans to use the IX as well, but I'm the guinea pig), which has slightly different mounting screws than the EK and Koolance blocks, I guess I should be using the watercool method of measuring screw in depth and tightening afterwards, correct?
10-21-2010, 04:24 PM
RazerMamba

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXGearheadXx

seems your block is compatible with the product with conditions....

Quote:

Originally Posted by EK

Gold plated blocks such as the EK Supreme HF Full Gold:
The Indigo Xtreme alloy will amalgamate with the gold plate, resulting in a bond (and loss of the original gold surface); lapping would be needed to remove the alloy from the block.

This is what I was talking about^.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dejanh

1. When mounting the block measure the screw-in depth as per Watercool instructions on the side that has no bulge. This will give you the right screw-in depth for the desired pressure.
(note: Watercool instructions measure from top of the screw head to the block mounting plate; this is not what you should do).

Isn't your step 1 and your note contradictory?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rge

Like mentioned, pic looks like incomplete reflow. Looks like springs were too tight and/or not enough time for reflow and/or not level.

Definitely enough time for reflow, I ran at 100C for almost 5 minutes each which wasn't too smart. Too tight and not level would be the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rge

screw all the way down till springs fully compressed, then backed out about 2 turns on all 4 screws for EK. Used a level to make sure cpu was level. prime 95 8 threads loaded at stock with pump off, for about 10 - 60 seconds, long enough to ensure proper reflow

Adjust all 4 screws to same height and towards lower end of recommended pressure. Then, after reflow tighten the two screws over the hump.

find measurements for the EK supreme hf mounting distance to use his detailed instructions applied to EK. back out 2.5 to 3 full turns backed off from fully compressed spring

So, fully compressed, then back out 3 full turns and make sure all four are level?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dejanh

If one side is looser at that point in time then the re-flow really did not go properly as all of the metal was seemingly pushed out from the bulge side to the other side.

The picture actually shows the metal next to the bulge still. It didn't migrate to the other side.
________________________

I'm getting a little confused. One method says measure and make sure all four thumb screws are level by measuring from the plate on the water block even though the non bump side will be a bit more decompressed (I'd assume that after reflow, all four should be tightened all the way down again). The other method says to screw it all the way down, then loosen about 3 full turns, then tighten right after reflow. So which method should I use or is that ultimately for me to decide?

Edit: I've been talking to a rep for IX and this is what he said:
"In addition to eliminating the block tubing, there are several techniques for tightening; one which as been successful is to tighten down all of the sides equally (before reflow); following reflow, tighten down the two bolts which are on the side of the ETI bulge (the silver alloy horseshoe) to equal the torque on the opposite side. Some more detail is available on the last page of this doc: http://www.indigo-xtreme.com/docs/ixheatsinkcompatibilityapplicationnote.pdf"

So basically, he's telling me to unhook the blocks from the tubing when doing this so that the water doesn't take away heat passively, level out the thumb screws so they are equal with all other sides, and use lower than recommended clamping force.