AM3+ is backward compatible with the AM3, but Bulldozer is for AM3+ only

Printable View

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

09-25-2010, 08:14 AM
MAS

AM3+ is backward compatible with the AM3, but Bulldozer is for AM3+ only

Quote:

Advanced Micro Devices said that its next-generation desktop processors code-named Zambezi will use socket AM3+ platforms, which will be backwards compatible with the firm's existing AM3 products. While the latter is an advantage for the platform, it may be a disadvantage for eight-core processors based on Bulldozer micro-architecture.

"The existing G34 and C32 server infrastructure will support the new Bulldozer-based server products. In order for AMD’s desktop offering to fully leverage the capabilities of Bulldozer, an enhanced AM3+ socket will be introduced that supports Bulldozer and is backward-compatible with our existing AM3 CPU offerings," an official from AMD said in an interview with Planet3DNow web-site.

Apparently, it was possible for AMD to make Bulldozer microprocessors compatible with existing AM3 infrastructure, but in order to do that, the company would have to sacrifice certain important features of the new core.

"When we initially set out on the path to Bulldozer we were hoping for AM3 compatibility, but further along the process we realized that we had a choice to make based on some of the features that we wanted to bring with Bulldozer. We could either provide AM3 support and lose some of the capabilities of the new Bulldozer architecture or, we could choose the AM3+ socket which would allow the Bulldozer-base Zambezi to have greater performance and capability," the official said.

The compatibility with older microprocessors allows AMD to simplify transition to the new micro-architecture and process design since the new AM3+ platform will support inexpensive chips from day one. However, such compatibility also means that AMD Zambezi processors will only support dual-channel memory controller. Considering the fact that all modern high-end Intel Core i7 processors with up to six cores feature triple-channel memory controller, it is unclear how AMD plans to "feed" eight cores of Zambezi with dul-channel DDR3 without creating bottlenecks.

AMD Bulldozer-based processor code-named Zambezi will have up to eight cores along with a new TurboCore dynamic acceleration technology. Thanks to the new micro-architecture the chip promises to be faster than existing AMD products.

Source

Quote:

AM3 boards support only AM3 processors
AM3+ boards support AM3 processors and AM3+ processors
09-25-2010, 08:19 AM
Mad Pistol

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAS

Source

this means Orochi will run on todays AM3 motherboards after the bios update

I think you misinterpreted the article.

It says that AM3 CPU's will be compatible with AM3+ motherboards, not the other way around. The article says that new chips (Bulldozer-based Zambezi) will only be compatible with AM3+ motherboards. However, you can use old Phenom II/Athlon II processors with an AM3+ motherboard as well.
09-25-2010, 08:19 AM
Calmatory

In practice people will still more or less need a new motherboard. 1) Not all motherboards will get BIOS updates, or they come late. 2) The CPU will be somewhat crippled feature wise with AM3 boards, even if the manufacturer releases a new BIOS.

Well, it's great that it is possible to use (albeit limited)BD on some existing boards.

Edit: Oh yeah, if it is the other way around.. Nothing new here. :)
09-25-2010, 08:21 AM
blindbox

Quote:

"The existing G34 and C32 server infrastructure will support the new Bulldozer-based server products. In order for AMD’s desktop offering to fully leverage the capabilities of Bulldozer, an enhanced AM3+ socket will be introduced that supports Bulldozer and is backward-compatible with our existing AM3 CPU offerings," an official from AMD said in an interview with Planet3DNow web-site.

Wrong. That's AM3 CPUs compatible with AM3+ motherboards, but not AM3+ processors compatible with AM3 mobos.

This has been verified many times. Heck, how could you miss this.

Quote:

Desktop Bulldozer Processors Will Require New Platforms - AMD.
09-25-2010, 08:22 AM
MAS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Pistol

I think you misinterpreted the article.

It says that AM3 CPU's will be compatible with AM3+ motherboards, not the other way around.

let's listen to M-r Fruehe opinion
09-25-2010, 08:23 AM
[XC] Synthetickiller

Not really sure I'd want to drop my PII into an AM3+ board... What's the point? Will it buy me better OCing over 890FX?

I'd think at that point, you'd just go DB w/ an AM3+ purchase and leave it at that.
09-25-2010, 08:27 AM
Olivon

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAS

let's listen to M-r Fruehe opinion

He is more involved in server part and doesn't answer on desktop questions :shrug:
09-25-2010, 08:27 AM
Mad Pistol

Quote:

Originally Posted by [XC] Synthetickiller

Not really sure I'd want to drop my PII into an AM3+ board... What's the point? Will it buy me better OCing over 890FX?

I'd think at that point, you'd just go DB w/ an AM3+ purchase and leave it at that.

Do we have any idea what sorts of features will be featured on a "990FX" chipset? It might actually be worth it if there's something good included... like the ability to put in a few nvidia cards in SLI, a la Intel...

Otherwise, you're exactly right.
09-25-2010, 08:31 AM
informal

The point of AM3 CPU compatibility with AM3+ socket is to tide over potential Orochi buyers until Orochi actually hits the market. Who wouldn't wait for Orochi if he can use future aggressively priced 3.3(3.7GhzT)/3.4(3.8GhzT) Thuban in AM3+ board,or relatively cheap 1065T/1055T/1035T that OC like crazy?
09-25-2010, 08:32 AM
Bobsama

Initially I was thinking of the old Socket-7/Super-Socket-7 thing AMD had going.

Anyways, I don't really see the point of an AM3-owner "upgrading" to an AM3+ board.
09-25-2010, 08:34 AM
[XC] Synthetickiller

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Pistol

Do we have any idea what sorts of features will be featured on a "990FX" chipset? It might actually be worth it if there's something good included.

Otherwise, you're exactly right.

Well, I'm sitting on a mini-itx rig (which is overkill honestly), but I am thinking whatever shrink is better of the upcoming chips, I'll go with it( AMD or Intel). I guess that's mid to late 2012. The later AMD gets in releasing this, the more catching up to Intel they have to do.

A Q2 push back is difficult, so there better be some improvements. I hope 6 USB3, all SATA 6 etc etc.
09-25-2010, 08:49 AM
Frontl1ne

So will AM3+ use the 9-series chipset?
09-25-2010, 08:51 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frontl1ne

So will AM3+ use the 9-series chipset?

Well yes.

Do you mean to ask if the AM3+ socket will debut on the 9 series chipset or if the AM3 original will share the 9 series chipset instead?
09-25-2010, 10:21 AM
Pontos

So, acording to the article, AM3+ will have a dual channel memory bus so AM3 cpus can work?.
They dropped a potential three-channel bus in order to allow people to run their old cpus in new mobos? Not a good decision i think, at least on desktops.

I'm all for backwards compatibility, but in this case it doesn't seem like a good idea. Those who buy a new mobo don't usually stick with an old cpu...
Were it the other way around (Letting people use AM3+ cpus on AM3 mobos) then things would be different. AM3+ would have triple-channel bus, and people could also enjoy the new cpus simply by sticking it on their current mobo (no big change in the platform).
09-25-2010, 10:25 AM
[XC] Synthetickiller

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pontos

So, acording to the article, AM3+ will have a dual channel memory bus so AM3 cpus can work?.
They dropped a potential three-channel bus in order to allow people to run their old cpus in new mobos? Not a good decision i think, at least on desktops.

I'm all for backwards compatibility, but in this case it doesn't seem like a good idea. Those who buy a new mobo don't usually stick with an old cpu...
Were it the other way around (Letting people use AM3+ cpus on AM3 mobos) then things would be different. AM3+ would have triple-channel bus, and people could also enjoy the new cpus simply by sticking it on their current mobo (no big change in the platform).

Oh? I thought the AM3+ was going to be quad channel. I have nothing to back that up, I just was under the impression that it would be since Intel is going in that direction.

Staying with dual channel is stupid. Honestly, at this point, if AMD finally said they'd make a new socket that isn't 940 pins, maybe they could do something better. I don't know if the socket is holding them back or not.

Lack of anything past dual channel isn't exactly aw-inspiring. :shakes:
09-25-2010, 10:27 AM
soya_crack

Seriously guys, didn't Benchmarks show that there is no to minor difference between Dual/Triple Channel? (Intel 1156 vs. 1366)
09-25-2010, 10:33 AM
ryan92084

Quote:

Originally Posted by soya_crack

Seriously guys, didn't Benchmarks show that there is no to minor difference between Dual/Triple Channel? (Intel 1156 vs. 1366)

i recall this as well
09-25-2010, 10:42 AM
qcmadness

Quote:

Originally Posted by soya_crack

Seriously guys, didn't Benchmarks show that there is no to minor difference between Dual/Triple Channel? (Intel 1156 vs. 1366)

For non-IGP CPUs, even single-channel is not a problem.
09-25-2010, 10:44 AM
sutyi

I think it'll work fine. There are boards available that are AM3 compatible and are HT1.0, of course that means you loose the extra oomph of HT3.0 has to offer...
09-25-2010, 11:26 AM
JF-AMD

Guys, how many times have I given this answer?

Why do you keep recycling news articles that are wrong and believe that this is somehow new information that invalidates all of the things that you have heard from AMD so far?
09-25-2010, 11:47 AM
demonkevy666

Quote:

Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Guys, how many times have I given this answer?

Why do you keep recycling news articles that are wrong and believe that this is somehow new information that invalidates all of the things that you have heard from AMD so far?

because their bored lol
and crave information
09-25-2010, 12:14 PM
RaV[666]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Guys, how many times have I given this answer?

Why do you keep recycling news articles that are wrong and believe that this is somehow new information that invalidates all of the things that you have heard from AMD so far?

Well, it would be nice to know whats exactly different about 9xx chipset that is so important 8xx series cant handle in bulldozer, it would be some information without giving anything important about BD.
Same pin count, backwards compatible with current chips.Intel talked in the days of socket 775 why older chipsets cant handle new chips, and we all knew it was BS.
I know you cant on your own tell us anything, but maybe send a memo to desktop guys , some preview of 9xx chipset functionality/difference would be nice.
09-25-2010, 12:26 PM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaV[666]

Well, it would be nice to know whats exactly different about 9xx chipset that is so important 8xx series cant handle in bulldozer, it would be some information without giving anything important about BD.
Same pin count, backwards compatible with current chips.Intel talked in the days of socket 775 why older chipsets cant handle new chips, and we all knew it was BS.
I know you cant on your own tell us anything, but maybe send a memo to desktop guys , some preview of 9xx chipset functionality/difference would be nice.

So the whole now VRM spec they introduced with C2 was just for bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:ing people? :ROTF:

And I bet its a similar reason for BD, a new µarch has other power requirements, maybe needs extended voltage ranges, finer grained voltage steps needed etc.
09-25-2010, 12:30 PM
FlanK3r

Zambezzi is AM3+ only, Thuban compactible with AM2+/AM3 and AM3+. And for me and some others people here, yes, i accpet new socket (motherborad) for better performace Zambezzi, no problem, if need it, buy 10 motherboards AM3+ for AMD :)
09-25-2010, 01:51 PM
BababooeyHTJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by soya_crack

Seriously guys, didn't Benchmarks show that there is no to minor difference between Dual/Triple Channel? (Intel 1156 vs. 1366)

It's easier (more reliable really) to overclock an x58 with 6GB in triple channel than a P55 with 8GB in dual channel.

I want more than 4GB of ram personally and 8GB at this point is overkill for me.

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page