Someone recommend an Atom system?

Hi all.

I'm shortly going to be building a media center front-end running Ubuntu and XBMC, and need some help with choosing the right hardware.

I'll want a graphics card from Nvidia that supports VDPAU Feature Set C, and like the sound of the GT 220.

I'd also quite like to have an Intel Atom-based system, but here lies the problem. I'll need a platform with two PCIe slots, so that I can have the GT220 and a sound card (either Auzentech X-Fi Hometheater HD or ASUS HDAV1.3) in the same system. I can't find any that meet this requirement.

If anyone knows of an Atom board out there with two expansion slots, I'd be grateful for a link. Ideally it should be a dual-core CPU aswell, but I'm not fussy if not.

Thanks!

anyone??

I don't know much (anything) about VDPAU Feature Set C, but does Nvidia ION support it?

If so, it would be quite easy for you to accomodate your dual core (with HT) and sound card wishes with a mini-ITX board :up:

Ion was my first choice but it's only feature set b, so no hardware decoding of divx/xvid. Also no hardware upscaling of sd to 1080p.

I may settle for an ion system in the end if I can't find a 2-slot solution.

Thanks for your input.

can anyone recommend a 2xPCIe atom board?

Update: I've just found out that there is a version of the ASUS Xonar HDAV 1.3 that works with regular old PCI, not PCI express. Whilst PCI-express would be preferable, I can't currently see any need for it on the soundcard as the version I'm looking at (the Slim card) seems to have all the features I need (bitstream the HD audio formats over HDMI).

This presents a new possibility - can someone recommend an atom-based board with one PCI and one PCI-E? I think this would be easier to find than one with two PCI-E slots. Only requirement (which I probably should have mentioned earlier) is gigabit ethernet.

:-)

I do not think you will find an atom board with 2 expansion slots. As far as I know, only 1 slots exist.

I was afraid of that :-(

Looks like I might be going for an ION system then. Unless anyone knows of a board with onboard graphics that support Nvidia VDPAU Feature Set C, with one expansion slot?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lloydsmart

Ion was my first choice but it's only feature set b, so no hardware decoding of divx/xvid. Also no hardware upscaling of sd to 1080p.

I may settle for an ion system in the end if I can't find a 2-slot solution.

Thanks for your input.

can anyone recommend a 2xPCIe atom board?

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there are 2 option i know of
from ecs 945GCD-M (V1.0) with pcie x16 +pciex1
from supermicro X7SLA-H with pciex8 +pciex4 in the physical form of x8
hoped that helped
by the way i own the ecs mobo myself

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Originally Posted by ANIKHTOS

there are 2 option i know of
from ecs 945GCD-M (V1.0) with pcie x16 +pciex1
from supermicro X7SLA-H with pciex8 +pciex4 in the physical form of x8
hoped that helped
by the way i own the ecs mobo myself

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Here I stand corrected! Thanks for pointing them out, I looked but didnt find those! :up:

Normally these days one doesn't need to put a sound card into an HTPC as they just use digital pass-through, which is not enhanced by sound cards (not that there aren't reasons which are exceptions to the norm). Do you have a particular reason to require a sound card? If you will be passing audio through HDMI/optical/digital coax out you might be able to shave off the requirement for 2 expansion slots, which will give you a lot more options in the end.

I am also guessing that if you're planning to watch divx you know that linux doesn't support blu-ray playback, but again... always nice to make sure with this kind of project.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ANIKHTOS

there are 2 option i know of
from ecs 945GCD-M (V1.0) with pcie x16 +pciex1
from supermicro X7SLA-H with pciex8 +pciex4 in the physical form of x8
hoped that helped
by the way i own the ecs mobo myself

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Thanks for that - I think the ECS one might be the ideal solution - and fanless too! :D

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Originally Posted by Serra

Normally these days one doesn't need to put a sound card into an HTPC as they just use digital pass-through, which is not enhanced by sound cards (not that there aren't reasons which are exceptions to the norm). Do you have a particular reason to require a sound card? If you will be passing audio through HDMI/optical/digital coax out you might be able to shave off the requirement for 2 expansion slots, which will give you a lot more options in the end.

I am also guessing that if you're planning to watch divx you know that linux doesn't support blu-ray playback, but again... always nice to make sure with this kind of project.

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Yes, I'm aware of the limitations of linux wrt bluray at the moment, but you can playback bluray rips, and there is also the option to use the live streaming function of a ripping program called MakeMKV to play blurays without even ripping them first.

The reason I'd use a sound card is to get bitstreaming of the new lossless formats (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA) to my amp via HDMI 1.3. (The amp is an Onkyo 705).

However, I won't be able to do the bitstreaming in linux for a while as there's no software support for it yet, but there is work being done in this area as newer builds of FFDSHOW on windows support bitstreaming thorugh the ASUS XONAR HDAV 1.3, so imo it's only a matter of time until this functionality finds its way into ffmpeg, and therefore to XBMC on linux. Until then, I might use XBMC on Windows. I'd get hardware acceleration and lossless bitstreaming by using the DSPlayer build with the newer FFDSHOW.

there is also
jetway ATOM-GM1-330-LF with 2 pci and 1 pciex1
okay that one does not have 2 pcie but still has 3 expansion slots.
i own also this one :-)
in order of appearense to market
jetway
supermicro
ecs

Yes, but even if that turns out to be the case with the card I buy, I still need it to fit in the board! I mean, even though a given PCIe card might just be a PCI card with a PCI-PCIe bridge chip, unless there's an easy way to remove that chip and turn the card back into a PCI one, I still need a PCIe slot, don't I?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lloydsmart

Yes, I'm aware of the limitations of linux wrt bluray at the moment, but you can playback bluray rips, and there is also the option to use the live streaming function of a ripping program called MakeMKV to play blurays without even ripping them first.

The reason I'd use a sound card is to get bitstreaming of the new lossless formats (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA) to my amp via HDMI 1.3. (The amp is an Onkyo 705).

However, I won't be able to do the bitstreaming in linux for a while as there's no software support for it yet, but there is work being done in this area as newer builds of FFDSHOW on windows support bitstreaming thorugh the ASUS XONAR HDAV 1.3, so imo it's only a matter of time until this functionality finds its way into ffmpeg, and therefore to XBMC on linux. Until then, I might use XBMC on Windows. I'd get hardware acceleration and lossless bitstreaming by using the DSPlayer build with the newer FFDSHOW.

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Well you do seem to know what you're doing :).

It sounds like you're setting yourself up to do a lot of work to avoid running Windows though, including limiting yourself feature-wise. Any particular reason you are this against running Windows on the HTPC? I would think that anyone who is going to such lengths to get a lossless audio setup would see the benefit of just playing blu-ray content without having to convert it with loss (minimal loss, but arguably the loss is the same or more than audio loss vs truehd with a reasonable file size) or stream 1080p + HD audio from a blu-ray over a network connection, which also requires a second PC running Windows anyway. It's not that it can't all be engineered around, but it seems like a lot more work to still arrive a bit short of the mark.

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Originally Posted by Serra

It sounds like you're setting yourself up to do a lot of work to avoid running Windows though, including limiting yourself feature-wise. Any particular reason you are this against running Windows on the HTPC?

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I see your point, and there isn't actually a compelling reason I can't use windows on this HTPC (besides the fact that I'd have to buy it), but I don't actually see that much of a difference between Linux and Windows on this, at the moment.

The only thing I'm currently missing on Linux is the lossless audio bitstreaming. This is possible on windows either through PowerDVD/Arcsoft players, or through the newer builds of FFDSHOW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serra

I would think that anyone who is going to such lengths to get a lossless audio setup would see the benefit of just playing blu-ray content without having to convert it with loss (minimal loss, but arguably the loss is the same or more than audio loss vs truehd with a reasonable file size)

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Not sure what loss you're talking about here mate - the bluray would be decrypted by MakeMKV, steamed (losslessly and locally) to XBMC, and played (losslessly) by XBMC over the soundcard, which would stream it (still untouched) to the amp over HDMI, which would finally decrypt the audio track (losslessly) and send it to the speakers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serra

or stream 1080p + HD audio from a blu-ray over a network connection, which also requires a second PC running Windows anyway.

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There isn't a need to have a second PC running windows - I've got a bluray player in my current machine which I'm trying out as a HTPC (system 2 in my sig), and I can use the streaming feature of MakeMKV on Linux, within the machine. I just use MakeMKV to "open" the disc, then playback in XBMC, streaming within one box (program-to-program). Kind of like viewing a website that's on your own PC via http://localhost

In fact, there's a great little plugin for XBMC that you can find over on their forums, which means once it's installed, I never even have to look at MakeMKV, XBMC will launch it for me in the background, so it's really a "insert disk and press play" kind of experience.

So basically, I'm hoping that support for bitstreaming the lossless formats over these new cards will come to linux and XBMC eventually, but if it doesn't come soon (a few months), I might just bite the bullet and buy a Windows 7 license. I could strip it right down so only the bare essentials are included anyway, stick it on an SSD and have it boot straight into XBMC. Using the DSPlayer build, along with newer FFDSHOW and MakeMKV would give me bluray playback with lossless bitstreamed audio. I just don't want to shell out for Windows when I could achieve the same thing for free in Linux by just waiting a few months. I mean, if this functionality is coming, I can live with the lossy DD/DTS for the time being.

I am using an ASROCK motherboard with Atom 330 + ION as well as XBMC and everything is decoded by the GPU. I had to install DSPlayer as the decoder and configure XBMC to use DXVA. It plays *all* formats without any issues and sound is passed through digital to the external decoder. Incredible power usage as well: Within XBMC menus ~43Watts and while decoding video (whichever format, even 1080p) ~38Watts.

It's simply amazing.

@NaMcO - that is a popular configuration, I think. Most of the guys over at the XBMC forum seem to be using ASROCK motherboards with Linux, so they get hardware acceleration from VDPAU via the ION chipset, and the benefits you listed such as digital passthough over HDMI, 1080p, power efficiency etc.

The platform is starting to show limitations, however. As I've mentioned, ION doesn't support VDPAU Feature Set C, and you can't bitstream the new lossless audio formats over its HDMI port.

As for DXvA, I'm not quite sure which features it supports in total. Does it support all the same stuff VDPAU FS C does, assuming you have compatible hardware? For example, if I purchased an Nvidia GT210, would I get hardware-accelerated DivX playback, or hardware accelerated upscaling and deinterlacing? If so, that certainly makes the Windows route all the more tempting! Does anyone know of an up-to-date comparison sheet between VDPAU and DXvA in terms of supported features? It would be interesting to see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lloydsmart

The only thing I'm currently missing on Linux is the lossless audio bitstreaming. This is possible on windows either through PowerDVD/Arcsoft players, or through the newer builds of FFDSHOW.

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Well I guess there is the ability to play a blu-ray locally (from disk) past the audio thing (not that the difference between DTS and PureHD would be noticeable on most speaker setups to most people anyway).

I thought MakeMKV was lossy actually, so it looks like I'm off there. That's really good to know though, I might have to look at converting all the blu-ray content on my atom PC to MKV then to save space (the HTPC being just a backup copy of things, the originals will always be stored as ISO's). I will definitely look into XMBC. It's funny but I think you're actually closer to getting me to recycle my Win 7 license on my HTPC than I am to making an argument for Windows. Thanks! I have a separate computer that just has a huge ISO store that I transfer to my HTPC right now because I wasn't willing to accept loss, but if lossless is available then yeah, Windows looses some arguments for sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lloydsmart

There isn't a need to have a second PC running windows - I've got a bluray player in my current machine which I'm trying out as a HTPC (system 2 in my sig), and I can use the streaming feature of MakeMKV on Linux, within the machine. I just use MakeMKV to "open" the disc, then playback in XBMC, streaming within one box (program-to-program). Kind of like viewing a website that's on your own PC via http://localhost

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At some point you have to introduce a Windows PC - Linux can't decrypt Blu-Ray (unless that has changed very recently). You can stream from linux to linux, but the root of the file is still Windows, no?


Off-topic:

Am I the only one who is finding that an Onkyo receiver maybe isn't the best for use with an HTPC? I mean, watching a movie or something works just fine, but the fact that it takes a second to switch audio paths to 'on' and turns them off when it doesn't hear a sound for (30?) seconds is a bother. I keep getting the last note of any notification sounds... accompanied, of course, by the loud click that the receiver makes.

Also, have you had a chance to hook into the serial port on the back of your receiver yet? My ION board has a COM header on it and I have a spare internal header to RS232 port expansion module, but I just haven't had the chance yet to look at connecting the two and digging into how to communicate between them. From my understanding you can do everything you could from a remote (and more) over a COM connection, which would make a script to tune settings much handier than programming a macro into a remote and pointing it at the receiver while it shoots off the commands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serra

I thought MakeMKV was lossy actually, so it looks like I'm off there. That's really good to know though, I might have to look at converting all the blu-ray content on my atom PC to MKV then to save space (the HTPC being just a backup copy of things, the originals will always be stored as ISO's).

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I think I know where you're coming from. Most of the MKVs you find online are lossily compressed, but MKV itself is just a container format. You can put whatever video, audio and subtitle tracks you want in it. Usually, they are compressed, but if you want you can just copy them right off a DVD or bluray and stick them in there as-is, without any extra compression. This is what I do. My MKVs are either MPEG-2 with AC3, DTS or MP2 (when they're ripped from a DVD) or they're bluray rips which means either MPEG-4 AVC, VC-1 or MPEG-2 for video, and AC3, DTS, TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, DD+, DTS-HD HR, PCM or MP2 for Bluray.

An MKV can store other formats too, but you don't typically find them on Blurays or DVDs. e.g. AAC sound, DivX video, etc.

What MakeMKV (the program) does is to generate an MKV file from a DVD or Bluray, without applying any compression. It also provides the ability to read a bluray disk and create a stream of that information that can be played either locally or on a networked PC.

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Originally Posted by Serra

At some point you have to introduce a Windows PC - Linux can't decrypt Blu-Ray (unless that has changed very recently). You can stream from linux to linux, but the root of the file is still Windows, no?

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Well, here's the situation. Currently there are no Bluray video playing applications for Linux. They just don't exist. This is not because of a lack of support for codecs, or an inability to read the bluray disc. On my PC (running Ubuntu linux) I can use BD-ROMs no problem, they show up on the desktop just like any other disc. I can also read Bluray video discs, and I can use MakeMKV, on Linux, to rip them. I can then play that rip with several pieces of software both on Linux and Windows (and other platforms too, if I choose to). What I cannot do is just put in a bluray video disc and play it straight off. At least, I couldn't, until MakeMKV came along. With this installed, I can put the disc in, XBMC will launch MakeMKV, MakeMKV will decrypt the disc on-the-fly (using the same decryption methods it uses to rip the discs), and create a stream of it. XBMC will then play this stream. So really, I can play bluray discs just fine, although there's currently no way to use their fancy menu systems.

Mostly though, I rip to an MKV file and play that with XBMC, but since it's exactly the same video and audio that are on the original disc, it's not any different really, and the ability to bitstream the lossless audio would be as beneficial as ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serra

Off-topic:

Am I the only one who is finding that an Onkyo receiver maybe isn't the best for use with an HTPC? I mean, watching a movie or something works just fine, but the fact that it takes a second to switch audio paths to 'on' and turns them off when it doesn't hear a sound for (30?) seconds is a bother. I keep getting the last note of any notification sounds... accompanied, of course, by the loud click that the receiver makes.

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Yes, this is very annoying. Luckily, I plan to dedicate the PC to HTPC use in the near future, so there shouldn't be much of an issue with notification sounds, etc. as the only sounds I'll really need to hear are music and video tracks, which work fine apart from that first second or so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serra

Also, have you had a chance to hook into the serial port on the back of your receiver yet? My ION board has a COM header on it and I have a spare internal header to RS232 port expansion module, but I just haven't had the chance yet to look at connecting the two and digging into how to communicate between them. From my understanding you can do everything you could from a remote (and more) over a COM connection, which would make a script to tune settings much handier than programming a macro into a remote and pointing it at the receiver while it shoots off the commands.

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This port is provided so that the amp can be easily connected to a home automation system like a Cresteron (which cost a lot of money). I don't know of a way currently to control the amp from the serial port of a PC, though if this could be done it would be very cool. It all depends on how well documented Onkyo's protocol for controlling the amp through this port is, which I haven't had a chance to investigate yet. If there is full documentation, then it should be quite a simple piece of code that would get this working, and I might look into it one day in a few months time (after my exams), as it would be great to have my HTPC control the modes and volume on the amp.

I found some info on how to control a 705/805 via serial you might be interested in, it looks fairly easy to do and well documented. I made a thread about it in another section, take a look. Definitely suggest grabbing the excel file I link to in there before the link dies.

Nice, thanks.

Bringing this thread back on-topic after that slight diversion, I've just read this review of Zotac's take on the new ION2 platform. Looks pretty nice! Does anyone know if the ION2 will support VDPAU Feature Set C? If so, I can just stick the sound card in and be done with it. Onboard graphics would be more convenient anyway!