Expensive Quad Sockets vs. Ubiquitous Dual Sockets | Opteron & Xeon Compared

Printable View

10-06-2009, 06:58 AM
64NOMIS

Expensive Quad Sockets vs. Ubiquitous Dual Sockets | Opteron & Xeon Compared

Anandtech's Johan De Gelas, an expert server reviewer takes a closer look at the current 2P and 4P landscape in this excelent review on Anandtech. A good look at core and socket scaling on today's platforms.

Quote:

Do you get a few quad socket machines or (slightly less than) twice as many dual socket servers? It is not as clear cut a decision as it used to be. This article will compare the power and performance of the current AMD and Intel quad and dual platforms, giving you some of the information you need to make a well informed decision. Please share your own experiences with the dual and quad socket question, we are eagerly awaiting them.

Quote:

Intel is far beyond the limits of the multiple FSB platform and needs to roll out a completely new server platform, a "QuickPath" quad socket platform. AMD has already improved their Quad socket CPU two times in one year, while Intel's updated quad platform will not be available before the beginning of 2010.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...PricingRAM.gif

The end result is that servers based on a quad hex-core Opteron are about 20% to 50% faster, and at the same time consume 20% less than Intel hex-core. The E7450 has a slightly better performance/watt ratio, but simple mathematics show that no matter which hex-core Xeon you chose, it is going to look bad for the Intel six-core. The X7460 and its brothers are toast.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/q...5354/19917.png
10-06-2009, 07:15 AM
Origin_Unknown

something for the WCG boys ;)
10-06-2009, 07:55 AM
EniGmA1987

Wow, thats a lot of money for RAM...
10-06-2009, 09:36 AM
alfaunits

So let me see..
Dual socket Nehalem is at worst some 33% below quad-socket hexa-core opty (8 vs. 24 cores), consumes barely over 50% of what Opty config consumes... and we need to worry about whether Intel has quad-socket offering?:) Seriously, this just puts bad shadow on Istambul in my POV.
10-06-2009, 09:48 AM
marten_larsson

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaunits

So let me see..
Dual socket Nehalem is at worst some 33% below quad-socket hexa-core opty (8 vs. 24 cores), consumes barely over 50% of what Opty config consumes... and we need to worry about whether Intel has quad-socket offering?:) Seriously, this just puts bad shadow on Istambul in my POV.

Pleeeeeeeaaseee stop calling it IstaMbul. It's called IstaNbul, like the capital of the Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire.

Edited to be more historically correct :)
10-06-2009, 09:57 AM
ryan92084

Quote:

Originally Posted by marten_larsson

Pleeeeeeeaaseee stop calling it IstaMbul. It's called IstaNbul, like the capital of Turkey.

Capital of turkey is actually Ankara. Istanbul/Constantinople was the capital of the Roman Empire. I knew those 4 years of Latin would have a practicle application :p:
10-06-2009, 10:10 AM
marten_larsson

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan92084

Capital of turkey is actually Ankara. Istanbul/Constantinople was the capital of the Roman Empire. I knew those 4 years of Latin would have a practicle application :p:

Haha, you got me there. Will edit my post to be more accurate! :)
10-06-2009, 10:52 AM
alfaunits

7 posts - of which 3 are on topic :( Groovie.
10-06-2009, 10:57 AM
marten_larsson

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaunits

7 posts - of which 3 are on topic :( Groovie.

Well your post made it 8/3.

When AMD gets the C3 stepping out on Istanbul I'm sure the power consumtion will go down. If they plan on releasing one...
10-06-2009, 01:36 PM
alfaunits

Let's stick to now...
10-07-2009, 12:25 AM
saaya

hmmmm im a bit surprised that there is no perf/watt graph this time...
there has always been one before when amd was on top, now intel seems to lead there but theres no graph showing it :P

johan mentioned that most tasks actually dont scale beyond 16 cores, so then besides hpc, dual bloomfield will do very very well in most scenarios...
its interesting to see that by spamming everybody with sheer amount of cores, even the server segment seems to find itself at the point of not really knowing what to do with all the cores and less high perf cores make more sense ^^
10-07-2009, 12:43 AM
Movieman

I've got a dual Gainestown with W5590's in it doing nothing but crunching daily on WCG.
It does app 70% of what the top "normal" machine on WCG does, a AMD quad socket 8360SE..
http://boincstats.com/stats/host_sta...ive=&st=0&or=8
His is the number 2 machine on that page( using the credit/month tab) and mine is number4
The number 3 machine I can't figure as I'm at a higher speed unless the guy with it has figured out how to OC it. I can't, locked up tight.

Now without sitting down and doing a spreadsheet taking into consideration all the factors I can see uses for both the Intel and AMD setups.
I'm not straddling the fence here or kissing anyones butt but they both make sense depending on usage and costs.
I do know that you can buy 4 of those 8360SE cpu's for less than one W5590.
$360.00 each vs $1700.00+
10-07-2009, 01:01 AM
duploxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaunits

So let me see..
Dual socket Nehalem is at worst some 33% below quad-socket hexa-core opty (8 vs. 24 cores), consumes barely over 50% of what Opty config consumes... and we need to worry about whether Intel has quad-socket offering?:) Seriously, this just puts bad shadow on Istambul in my POV.

then it even puts more bad shadow on dunnington, that is smashed to the ground price/performance/power.

And power consumption isn't compared correct, its 24GB vs 64GB while only using 20GB in vAPS so that is wasting a lot of power for nothing.
10-07-2009, 04:25 AM
alfaunits

Quote:

Originally Posted by duploxxx

then it even puts more bad shadow on dunnington, that is smashed to the ground price/performance/power.

Who cares? That was old when it was born.

Quote:

And power consumption isn't compared correct, its 24GB vs 64GB while only using 20GB in vAPS so that is wasting a lot of power for nothing.

A few dimm stick will use a dozen watts. The difference is a statistical error.
10-07-2009, 05:10 AM
saaya

hey dave, can you oc multi socket opteron systems?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819105256

6 45nm cores for 699$ :slobber:
10-07-2009, 05:12 AM
duploxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaunits

Who cares? That was old when it was born.

A few dimm stick will use a dozen watts. The difference is a statistical error.

6 vs 16 that is a difference of approx 35W those are no LP dimms, that is 10% less power consumption....not to mention the difference in Power supply but hey then we start milking the cow again.

If i take OEM calculations a dual x5570 with 24GB ram, single 750W power supply and lets say 2 sas disks (i know they used few ssd but that isn't going to drop the 60W difference) they will consume 334W, anandtech measures 275W so are they really pushing the edge here....
10-07-2009, 06:43 AM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

I've got a dual Gainestown with W5590's in it doing nothing but crunching daily on WCG.
It does app 70% of what the top "normal" machine on WCG does, a AMD quad socket 8360SE..
http://boincstats.com/stats/host_sta...ive=&st=0&or=8
His is the number 2 machine on that page( using the credit/month tab) and mine is number4
The number 3 machine I can't figure as I'm at a higher speed unless the guy with it has figured out how to OC it. I can't, locked up tight.

Now without sitting down and doing a spreadsheet taking into consideration all the factors I can see uses for both the Intel and AMD setups.
I'm not straddling the fence here or kissing anyones butt but they both make sense depending on usage and costs.
I do know that you can buy 4 of those 8360SE cpu's for less than one W5590.
$360.00 each vs $1700.00+

Hey MM long time no see :).Those are "old" 65nm quad Barcelona CPUs in the AMD system,not hex cores ;). They work at 2.5Ghz and have 2MB of L3. I wonder what would 4 Shanghai Quad Cores @ 2.9Ghz do(should be 27% faster overall-10% IPC and 16% higher clocks).Or even better: 4 hex core 2.6Ghz Istanbul chips(standard 75W ACP editions).
10-07-2009, 07:15 AM
Particle

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

can you oc multi socket opteron systems?

Yes, but it's not pretty. The nVidia chipsets are ancient and don't do a stable HT ref above 220-230. The chipset has been renamed a few times and was essentially designed when the A64 platform was new. Go figure. Things may be different on these new boards with the recently released AMD chipsets. I'll have one at the end of this month if Supermicro's estimated release date for the model I want is correct. I'll be able to provide more information at that time.
10-07-2009, 09:34 AM
alfaunits

Quote:

Originally Posted by duploxxx

6 vs 16 that is a difference of approx 35W those are no LP dimms, that is 10% less power consumption....not to mention the difference in Power supply but hey then we start milking the cow again.

Even at 10% diff it's not enough to make up for 20% better perf/watt.

Quote:

If i take OEM calculations a dual x5570 with 24GB ram, single 750W power supply and lets say 2 sas disks (i know they used few ssd but that isn't going to drop the 60W difference) they will consume 334W, anandtech measures 275W so are they really pushing the edge here....

Wow, so 2 SAS drives @15W each (what you think it's 5W?:) It's not 60W but it is a drop of 30W), who knows what RAM...hmmm, why should we care? To put AMD in better light?
Accept it, while the 24 core AMD system does better in performance only, it doesn't stack up in perf/watt.

And unless I missed some shopping sites, a SINGLE Opteron 8435 is more expensive than TWO X5570!
Opty 8435: $2650
http://www.google.com/products?q=AMD...8435&scoring=p
Xeon 5570: $1330
http://www.google.com/products?q=Int...5570&scoring=p
Quad-socket AMD mobos are not ice-cream cheap either, while Dual Nehalem boards peanuts compared to that.

Even space is not in AMD's favor, since Nehalems can fit in much less than a quad-socket AMD system.
There's not really a single point in Istanbul from above.
10-07-2009, 10:22 AM
kl0012

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaunits

Even at 10% diff it's not enough to make up for 20% better perf/watt.

Wow, so 2 SAS drives @15W each (what you think it's 5W?:) It's not 60W but it is a drop of 30W), who knows what RAM...hmmm, why should we care? To put AMD in better light?
Accept it, while the 24 core AMD system does better in performance only, it doesn't stack up in perf/watt.

And unless I missed some shopping sites, a SINGLE Opteron 8435 is more expensive than TWO X5570!
Opty 8435: $2650
http://www.google.com/products?q=AMD...8435&scoring=p
Xeon 5570: $1330
http://www.google.com/products?q=Int...5570&scoring=p
Quad-socket AMD mobos are not ice-cream cheap either, while Dual Nehalem boards peanuts compared to that.

Even space is not in AMD's favor, since Nehalems can fit in much less than a quad-socket AMD system.
There's not really a single point in Istanbul from above.

Second that.
Theirs calculation for Xeon system price also seems wrong.
18 x Samsung DDR3-1333 8GB ECC/REG ($600) + 2 x Xeon X5570 ($1500) + TYAN S7016GM3NR ($450) = $14250 for 144GB system configuration. They got $20000
10-07-2009, 11:01 AM
duploxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaunits

Even at 10% diff it's not enough to make up for 20% better perf/watt.

Wow, so 2 SAS drives @15W each (what you think it's 5W?:) It's not 60W but it is a drop of 30W), who knows what RAM...hmmm, why should we care? To put AMD in better light?
Accept it, while the 24 core AMD system does better in performance only, it doesn't stack up in perf/watt.

And unless I missed some shopping sites, a SINGLE Opteron 8435 is more expensive than TWO X5570!
Opty 8435: $2650
http://www.google.com/products?q=AMD...8435&scoring=p
Xeon 5570: $1330
http://www.google.com/products?q=Int...5570&scoring=p
Quad-socket AMD mobos are not ice-cream cheap either, while Dual Nehalem boards peanuts compared to that.

Even space is not in AMD's favor, since Nehalems can fit in much less than a quad-socket AMD system.
There's not really a single point in Istanbul from above.

then your mind is to narrow (or just no idea about server world) to understand that there are actually a lot of places where 4s are preferred over 2s and IT business don't buy the fastest cpu from a linup unless it is for few very dedicated sw parts.

and those prices are total rip off, idiots who would buy those online or from oem without discount.

what about space, it's only 1-2-4u there are several 4s available in 2u, but most of the time they are bought for the many full height pci-e lanes, something which isn't available in 2u.
10-07-2009, 11:29 AM
alfaunits

Quote:

Originally Posted by duploxxx

then your mind is to narrow (or just no idea about server world) to understand that there are actually a lot of places where 4s are preferred over 2s and IT business don't buy the fastest cpu from a linup unless it is for few very dedicated sw parts.

Yep they don't get the fastest CPUs always - just made the comparison of how expensive it is to start with and also more expensive to go with (AMD).

Quote:

and those prices are total rip off, idiots who would buy those online or from oem without discount.

Oh - in other words "buy your crack from your own dealer only" :)
That may work for you, but I don't see it working for everyone.
Can you get AMD CPUs discounted? You can get Intel discounted as well - wow, I just enlightened you :D

Quote:

what about space, it's only 1-2-4u there are several 4s available in 2u, but most of the time they are bought for the many full height pci-e lanes, something which isn't available in 2u.

You can get dual socket Nehalems in 1U twin tower configs. Space-wise, perf wise, perf/watt wise and price wise that'll wipe the floor with quad sockets.
10-07-2009, 11:49 AM
poke349

Dave!!! You're back!
10-09-2009, 08:11 PM
64NOMIS

If this thread is in any way responsible for Bringing Dave Out of the Darkness then its a good thread indeed!