Abit AX78 - many problems

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05-04-2008, 08:41 AM
KTE

Abit AX78 - many problems

I have tried BIOS 11, 12 and 13 B2.
The latest BIOS I have tested, 13 beta 2 is very bad, has many problems I described here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...14#post2964614

Your rep in technical support told me BIOS 12 and 13 supports Phenom 9600 BE and 9850 BE perfectly.

But I cannot set Ganged or Unganged with it anywhere? :confused:
It chooses Ganged default.
I can't also bootup with Crucial/Geil 1GB DDR2-1066 at any timings/voltages or Corsair 1GB 800 RAM overclocked to 1066, while your board specs says it supports it fine?
All my RAM can do 1200 5-5-5-15 2.1v with Phenom 9850 BE and 9600 BE perfectly fine on other boards.

Also, your manual showed us NB FID option with Phenoms but why does your BIOS not have it for Phenom 9600/9600BE or 9850BE?

Which is the best most stable BIOS you have out supporting AMD Phenom 9850BE?

Why does Abit EQ keep failing to start saying start as Administrator no matter how many reinstalls and starting as Admin I've done?

Does your board PWM support 200W power draw?

Thank you for the help. :)
05-04-2008, 11:18 AM
hokiealumnus
Hi there. First thing (just to clear this up so there isn't any confusion), you need to know both this and the official abit forums are user-to-user help, not official abit support. To speak with an abit employee, you have to call or email them. So it's not OUR boar per se; we may just own one. :)

Now, moving on, here are some answers that will hopefully help you, in the order they were asked:
- The NB-FID works just fine with my Phenom 9500. I have a feeling you still have Cool N' Quiet enabled. Once you disable that, you should see the option to change your multiplier.
- Most likely the reason you can't OC your memory is the tRFC timing. That timing on this board is measured in ns and are selectable individually for all four DIMMs. By default, the empty slots are set to 75ns. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, it'll change one populated slot to the setting it should be at (either 105ns or 127.5ns, depending on your memory) but it treats all three other DIMMs as empty with respect to that timing. Anyway, long story short, change the DIMMs that you have memory in to 105ns and try again. You can probably clock your memory higher at that point. If not, try changing both of them to 127.5ns.
- No idea which BIOS is 'best' for a 9850, but I use v.13beta02 with no issues what-so-ever. If I had a 9850, this is the version I'd be using.
- Sorry, never used Vista (and don't plan on it), so I can't help you with the administrator question.
- Likewise, I have no clue whether the PWM can handle a 200W power draw. The 9850 is 125W though...what do you plan on doing to make the board need 200W output?
05-04-2008, 03:42 PM
KTE

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by hokiealumnus

Hi there. First thing (just to clear this up so there isn't any confusion), you need to know both this and the official abit forums are user-to-user help, not official abit support. To speak with an abit employee, you have to call or email them. So it's not OUR boar per se; we may just own one. :)

Thanks - I'm aware :)
But those guys do read these area's ;)
Quote:
Now, moving on, here are some answers that will hopefully help you, in the order they were asked:

The NB-FID works just fine with my Phenom 9500. I have a feeling you still have Cool N' Quiet enabled. Once you disable that, you should see the option to change your multiplier.
- Nope.
  
  Quote:
- Most likely the reason you can't OC your memory is the tRFC timing. That timing on this board is measured in ns and are selectable individually for all four DIMMs. By default, the empty slots are set to 75ns. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, it'll change one populated slot to the setting it should be at (either 105ns or 127.5ns, depending on your memory) but it treats all three other DIMMs as empty with respect to that timing. Anyway, long story short, change the DIMMs that you have memory in to 105ns and try again. You can probably clock your memory higher at that point. If not, try changing both of them to 127.5ns.

Thanks, you're right for some parts, but what about 1066 mode, Unganged mode etc? None work :confused:

Quote:

No idea which BIOS is 'best' for a 9850, but I use v.13beta02 with no issues what-so-ever. If I had a 9850, this is the version I'd be using.

It's very buggy for me. :(

Quote:

Sorry, never used Vista (and don't plan on it), so I can't help you with the administrator question.

It's in XP 32b ->
Attachment 77900

Quote:

Likewise, I have no clue whether the PWM can handle a 200W power draw. The 9850 is 125W though...what do you plan on doing to make the board need 200W output?

Overclock hehehe :D
1.5v is enough to pull that under load.

Hehe...ok, good point. FWIW I've run my 9500 @ 1.45Vcore and +.10v on the CPU NB Ref Voltage, so maybe that's close when combined? I'd love to know how you came up with that calculation b/c I'm clueless about how one calculates it and would love to learn.

Anyway, it looks like you're using the abitEQ from the download page. Uninstall that one, delete its directory and get rid of the registry keys. Then try installing the version from your CD. The new one won't work anyway b/c it doesn't come with the config for our board (you'd think they would think of that...). Unless you're the one who already said they'd try the new version with the config from the old one. ;)

Sorry, no personal experience at all with 1066 mode. Master of None, a mod @ abit, reports running his G.Skill DDR2-1000 sticks ok after overclocking at the DDR2-800 setting. Before overclocking, he tried the DDR2-1066 setting at default FSB and it worked with those sticks; he's on v.13beta02 as well. Another user, Chuck4456 is running his Geil Ultra DDR2-800 kit overclocked to DDR2-1066. One guy reports running G.Skill DDR2-1066 ok. Anyway...got those from this thread and wanted to save you some reading. LINMARK did report issues with his DDR2-1066 kit, so you're not the only one. I guess it depends on the memory. :shrug:

I'm sorry you've having troubles with the multiplier. If disabling CnQ didn't work, I have no idea. When I first got the board (first AMD build), I was like 'WTF...where is the multi?' Then a wise mod pointed me to CnQ and it's worked ever since.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokiealumnus

Hehe...ok, good point. FWIW I've run my 9500 @ 1.45Vcore and +.10v on the CPU NB Ref Voltage, so maybe that's close when combined? I'd love to know how you came up with that calculation b/c I'm clueless about how one calculates it and would love to learn.

That's high, how long have you had it like that? :eek:
Also do you have some extra PWM cooling?

The equation cooler MFGs use is simple:

Power = TDP * (New Frequency/Old Frequency * New VCore²/Old VCore²)
Vcore = Vdd supply which equals loadline processor voltage
Vddnb = Loadline northbridge voltage

So for you it would roughly be;

= 95 * (2500/2200 * 1.450²/1.200²)
= 157.62W

But in your case it'll be a little different, since core amps are around 76A and the northbridge has separate power and current supply that adds to the CPU. I don't know the amps fed to each core and the NB to decide it, sorry. It won't be much different to 10W added to the above figure though.

Quote:

Anyway, it looks like you're using the abitEQ from the download page. Uninstall that one, delete its directory and get rid of the registry keys. Then try installing the version from your CD. The new one won't work anyway b/c it doesn't come with the config for our board (you'd think they would think of that...). Unless you're the one who already said they'd try the new version with the config from the old one. ;)

Thanks, I'll try it in just a few :)

Quote:

Sorry, no personal experience at all with 1066 mode. Master of None, a mod @ abit, reports running his G.Skill DDR2-1000 sticks ok after overclocking at the DDR2-800 setting. Before overclocking, he tried the DDR2-1066 setting at default FSB and it worked with those sticks; he's on v.13beta02 as well. Another user, Chuck4456 is running his Geil Ultra DDR2-800 kit overclocked to DDR2-1066. One guy reports running G.Skill DDR2-1066 ok. Anyway...got those from this thread and wanted to save you some reading. LINMARK did report issues with his DDR2-1066 kit, so you're not the only one. I guess it depends on the memory. :shrug:

Looks like a mixed bag. I have 3 different kits working on other boards with X2 and Phenoms but not on here -- especially my Ballistix not even POSTing and the Corsair not doing 1066 or anything above 824 4-4-4-12-15 127.5ns/75ns so I'm very frustrated. What's worse, there is no option for unganged/ganged when unganged is faster in multi-threaded apps! That's poor AM2+ support and its only BIOS/board related. :shakes:

Quote:

I'm sorry you've having troubles with the multiplier. If disabling CnQ didn't work, I have no idea. When I first got the board (first AMD build), I was like 'WTF...where is the multi?' Then a wise mod pointed me to CnQ and it's worked ever since.

Yeah been trying it hard, but I think the multi not working for 9850 is because they won't make the compatible list with these BIOSes -- highly doubt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokiealumnus

Unless you're the one who already said they'd try the new version with the config from the old one. ;)

I tested using the config from AbitEQ 2.0.0.1 with AbitEQ 2.0.0.6, it did not work. Got admin message both in xp x86 and vista x64

Just for the record: 1066Memclk mode works, just not very well... http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=344303 This is with PC6400 Ballistix @2.2V

1066 - no go for me at all, no way.
When MEM is in error, I can find it easily -> my USB ports stop working even if it boots :)

Abit EQ: managed to get CD version [old] working fine after deleting registry entries and old left over files with a reboot. Thanks for the tip hokiealumnus :up:

http://picsorban.com/upload/abit-eq.thumb.png http://picsorban.com/upload/abit-eq2.thumb.png

Just installed new one now, needs reboot but it is working :)

You're quite welcome...at least one thing was resolved! This is what I did to cool off the PWM some more...I bet it looks familiar from being around here. That said, I haven't run that very long...the PWM does still get very warm and all I've got is a Freezer 64 Pro. I was just seeing if 2.6GHz was 'stable', and 20min is about all I could bring myself to subject it to with Small FFTs.

Thanks for the formula, I'll file that away for future reference. :)

Linmark - thanks for trying that...at least now we know. :up:

Hehe thanks for the link, nice work :toast:

I had to move Abit EQ old version files into new version files and then it worked fine:

http://picsorban.com/upload/sd--.thumb.png

Excellent, wonder what happened to Linmark's installation. Oh well. If you don't particularly care for the truck like myself, have a look at this thread @ abit. MUCH smaller and better looking skins some random guy made. They work splendidly. Save your taskbar icon though...that was the one thing I didn't like about his skin.

1 Attachment(s)

I'm very fond of this skin; nice, small, slick and appropriate. Love the colors too.

Attachment 78023

Thank you for the link and instructions, you're a star mate :up:

I really did not like that big, huge, jaggy graphiced car theme which takes up huge room showing 1-4 lines of info :shakes:

LIKMARK.. no idea, we'll wait and see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

I'm very fond of this skin; nice, small, slick and appropriate. Love the colors too.

Attachment 78023

Thank you for the link and instructions, you're a star mate :up:

I really did not like that big, huge, jaggy graphiced car theme which takes up huge room showing 1-4 lines of info :shakes:

LIKMARK.. no idea, we'll wait and see.

Thanks, I'm flattered! Not a star though, just here to help how I can. Sorry I'm clueless about your inability to change the HT multi. If I ever get wind of a new BIOS, I'll post it here second (@ abit first of course :p:).

I'll list the problems with a Phenom 9850 BE, hopefully you are reading this Abit:- :)

Board cannot handle 1.354v and above with 9850 BE (125W TDP model) - PWM protection shuts it down (5-1200 minutes or so, low PWM load temps - no vdroop)
I'm currently at 1.35v, no shutdown yet, still testing (22 minutes under load)
Cannot change NB FID with this board, worked once but did not work after
Cannot change to 1066 mode with 3 different pairs of 1066 RAM, C1 at boot
Cannot set Unganged mode anywhere
Cannot POST or boot with less than 127.5ns tRFC for DIMM0 using 1GB kits
Cannot change HT Ref with AOD on this board and most parameters are not picked up through it
Can hardly change HT Ref in BIOS, even 210MHz will make my system unusable and the USB/PS/2 ports stop working with it
Any change from stock boot timings in 800 mode with Corsair 800 4-4-4-12 2.1v RAM mostly makes the system unstable/unusable or react strange
Overall BIOS for HT/NB/RAM clocking is very bad, many issues need to be worked out. I can't believe these are the same engineers who made my brilliant IP35-E and IP35 Pro :(
Board issues temperature readings from ACPI, which is 10°C higher than internal core Tctl reading
Many boots makes the system reset all BIOS options to default - which is a PITA! Please have some save option and fix this bug
What is P0 and P1? gives no change...
Why does POST take so long? Its not like this with other boards.. apart from Skulltrail :p:
None of the above are CPU/RAM/PSU limitations, I already know them
Why not leave CnQ option seperate from CPU FID oc option?

Thank you.

Will wait for that new BIOS hokiealumnus, but I don't have much testing time :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

I'll list the problems with a Phenom 9850 BE, hopefully you are reading this Abit:- :)

wouldn't bet on it, send it to them.

Hi,

I have just joined today and to be honest, I did not study the site while I was waiting moderation. I have been at Abit for just over 1 month now and have decided to join the forums to show some local support.

I am very surprised only 3 of you have been discussing this fault and I am sure others will be along tomorrow to try and help solve it for you, I will also forward this to my technical support hub in Netherlands and I am sure we will have this solved in no time.

I take it you have only talked about this in the forum and not tried to contact us directly???

Regards

Nathan

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbitUK

Hi,

I have just joined today and to be honest, I did not study the site while I was waiting moderation. I have been at Abit for just over 1 month now and have decided to join the forums to show some local support.

I am very surprised only 3 of you have been discussing this fault and I am sure others will be along tomorrow to try and help solve it for you, I will also forward this to my technical support hub in Netherlands and I am sure we will have this solved in no time.

I take it you have only talked about this in the forum and not tried to contact us directly???

Regards

Nathan

I was actually just trying to help out; no multi issues here. There is another user at the abit (USA) forums, soundood, that has no troubles with his 9850 (see this thread). My 9500 has no problem as well. I think KTE was an isolated case. Regardless, he left XS some time ago for an undisclosed reason. :shrug:

Anyway, just fyi. Off-topic - Very nice to meet another abit person...hi!

Still having contact with KTE, so here is his summary.

Quote:

Well there is still no one but me who has tried from 1.30v to 1.50v on the AX78 with 9850 BE using air cooling, even with added delta fans. The board PWM cannot handle it, simple as that. Mine did 1.30v 2.8G fine though because the board CAN handle 125W and the 9850BE at stock or close to it (about 130W). It can even bench more speed/MHz but not stable and it will fail regularly (random hard shutoffs after some uptime) at these settings. The maximum the board handled with 9850BE was 1.32v stable. With 4850e it handled 1.55v easily.

But add voltage and load it for about a day with 9850BE and find out [caution: you'll most likely have a dead board].
Or.. just add voltage and run the system as usual even at stock MHz.

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