Thermochill PA120.3 Pressure Drop Test Results

Finally got my hands on this famous radiator. A special thanks goes out to Danger Den for providing me the radiator to test with.:clap:

With all the talk I've heard about reducers around the G3/8" threading, I took this one a step further and tested with two configurations. One was with EK's G3/8" barbs that the good folks at watercoolingshop.com provided to me. They also sent me a set of G3/8" to G1/4" reducers so I could hook up my favorite Danger Den Fatboy barbs on the radiator and test that as well.:up:

Here is the full scoop on my site with more details and pictures:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/Ther..._3-Review.html

And the executive summary below:

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...lPA120_3-1.jpg

And the two tests compared to the Thermochill published results as well as the MCR320 and prototype Feser 120.3.

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...-PDcompare.png

My results fall inline with the published, actually thermochills published results only went out to 2.0 GPM, so anything beyond that is interpolated from a trendline. The EK barbs were very very slightly more restrictive, and the adapters with Danger Den's Fatboy barbs was slightly less restrictive. The large ID and chamfered edges of the Fatboy barbs as well as the reducers gave it a little edge here.

In the end, my test results are very similar to those that are published

To put this to some sort of scale just one D-Tek Fuzion with 4.5mm nozzle has about 21X the restriction as one PA120.3. I would highly recommend running two or three or more of these in series if heat dissipation becomes an issue as they will have very very little effect on flow rate.

Now we just need to get some good thermal testing done..:)

Cheers!:spill:
Martin

More good testing as always Martin! :up:

I'm glad to see TC supplied us with reliable information; definitely builds my trust in a company that doesn't throw out numbers just to make themselves look good. Then again, with the PA series, any numbers would still put them on top! :p:

Good work as always Martin, glad I have a couple sets of the EK barbs as well.

Thanks very much for the testing, and especially that last comparison chart in your report; it really puts things into perspective, I don't understand why the reducer outperforms the native g 3/8 barbs.

edit: I just goggled "chamfered" and i guess that explains it

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Originally Posted by togaman5000

More good testing as always Martin! :up:

I'm glad to see TC supplied us with reliable information; definitely builds my trust in a company that doesn't throw out numbers just to make themselves look good. Then again, with the PA series, any numbers would still put them on top! :p:

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I hoped to get the same results, after all thermochill's testing was done by Bill Adams.

I would have been running some calibration checks on my own stuff if they were very different, it was a relief to see them the same.:clap:

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Originally Posted by afX

Thanks very much for the testing, and especially that last comparison chart in your report; it really puts things into perspective, I don't understand why the reducer outperforms the native g 3/8 barbs.

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I think it's because of two things

Transition - The native G3/8 barb has a very sharp 90 degree edge between an open chamber to 10.1mm ID. The reducer actually has a nice chamfer, plus the DD fatboy barbs have a little chamfer at the leading end.

Inside Diameter - EK G3/8 barb = 10.1mm ID throughout. The Reducer has a much larger 11.8mm ID, then the DD barb has an 11.0mm ID at the leading end, 10.0mm at the threaded end.


This is what you end up with looking at transitions:

Reducer+DD Fatboy = Radiator > Chamfer > 11.8mm ID > 10.0mm ID > Taper > 11.0mm ID > Chamfer > 11.11mm tubing (7/16")

EK G3/8" = Radiator > 10.1mm ID > 11.11mm tubing (7/16")

So the reducer plus DD fatboy setup provide smoother transitions. Entrance and exit losses like that are enough make a difference. Since the EK G3/8" barbs are 1/2" sized and only 10.1mm ID, there really is no benefit to the larger G3/8" threading. Had the barbs been oversized to something like a 13-14mm ID and chamfered, that's when you'd really take advantage of the larger threading.

But we're talking really small restrictions here though (tenths of 1 PSI at 1.5 GPM), that's why the barbs even show any difference.

For perspecitve at 1.5 GPM,

Twenty One PA120.3's with DD Fatboy barbs and reducers = Only One D-Tek Fuzion with 5.5mm nozzle

That's alot of PA's...:D Also why I always wonder why people worry about putting more than one radiator in a loop, they are generally very very low restriction compared to most blocks especially when you start talking about nozzles.

thanks for explaining in a way that a lowly business student understands :D

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

For perspecitve at 1.5 GPM,

One PA120.3 with DD Fatboy barbs and reducers = Twenty One D-Tek Fuzions with 5.5mm nozzle

That's alot of PA's...:D Also why I always wonder why people worry about putting more than one radiator in a loop, they are generally very very low restriction compared to most blocks.

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I am confused, did you mean to say the opposite?

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Originally Posted by Meatpuppet

I am confused, did you mean to say the opposite?

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Oops, you're right..I'll fix that.

Thank you Martin.
Another example of great testing.
Sitting here with two radiators in my loop. PA 120.3 and PA 120.2.

martin where you get the reducers?
EDIT: NM i found them on your website. Wait martin you ordered them from england???

Dayam if i knew u were going to do this i would of sent you my spare alphacool barbs i have.

FYI, im really starting to like koolance fittings. Expecially there 13mm Compression fitting.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

martin where you get the reducers?
EDIT: NM i found them on your website. Wait martin you ordered them from england???

Dayam if i knew u were going to do this i would of sent you my spare alphacool barbs i have.

FYI, im really starting to like koolance fittings. Expecially there 13mm Compression fitting.

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The good folks at www.watercoolingshop.com contacted me over on overclock.net and offered up the barbs when they noticed I still needed some to complete my testing. I accepted the offer and asked for the reduces since I saw they also carried them. Shipping was actually very fast..

I guess alot of vendors like to see the testing and just want to help out in some way, I always appreciate that very much.:clap:

So no, I didn't make an order, but I will in the future.:D

Just wanted to say thanks for all the work you're doing.

Great work. It's nice to know that the reducers will help more than using G3/8" barbs and this make sense due to the smoother transition.

I know what barbs are going on my Tr block :D They're getting ordered today! I also need to look into tearing my entire pump back apart as I think the barbs are only 3/8" ID on it. Maybe I can just bore them. They're 1/2" NPT fittings so the barb is actually the restrictive side for a change...

thanks for the review ;)

cheers for the review mate....

Like you said all we need is thermal testing...

if we had a chart for that aswell for the blocks,rads etc we would be set!

Hi Martin,

Did the G3/8 to G1/4 reducers have orings, or did you use PTFE tape to prevent them from leaking?

Thanks!

Those DD Fatboy fittings look to be pretty slick. I'm going to have to change out all my fittings now.

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Originally Posted by dana_2

Hi Martin,

Did the G3/8 to G1/4 reducers have orings, or did you use PTFE tape to prevent them from leaking?

Thanks!

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They do come with an o-ring, but there is not any sort of o-ring retainer so it's not too hard to overtighten and displace the o-ring. I'd probably use a little liquid gasket if I was permanetly installing.

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Originally Posted by skinnee

Those DD Fatboy fittings look to be pretty slick. I'm going to have to change out all my fittings now.

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Yeah, the DD fatboy barbs are by far my favorite. The EK and D-Tek barbs are also favorites with their o-ring retaining grooves, but the Fatboy barbs are the only ones with an 11.0mm inlet ID. It tapers down to 10.0mm at the threaded end, but it does seem to help with pressure drop. I did a quick test with a delrin T and found the Fatboy barbs with less pressure drop than a D-Tek barb. The barbs are really sharp too, so there's even less change tubing will come off.:up:

Thanks once again for all of your hard work! However I do have a somewhat off topic question regarding:

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Yeah, the DD fatboy barbs are by far my favorite. The EK and D-Tek barbs are also favorites with their o-ring retaining grooves, but the Fatboy barbs are the only ones with an 11.0mm inlet ID. It tapers down to 10.0mm at the threaded end, but it does seem to help with pressure drop. I did a quick test with a delrin T and found the Fatboy barbs with less pressure drop than a D-Tek barb. The barbs are really sharp too, so there's even less change tubing will come off.

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How much affect does the FatBoy barbs have on overall flow? Is it enough to make people switch out their current barb whatever they may be? I couldn't see that it would make that much of an affect. However for those that do not have barbs already would they may be worth purchasing?



-yonton228/timmy

martin, can you test some of the bitspower compression fittings?

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Originally Posted by yonton228

Thanks once again for all of your hard work! However I do have a somewhat off topic question regarding:

How much affect does the FatBoy barbs have on overall flow? Is it enough to make people switch out their current barb whatever they may be? I couldn't see that it would make that much of an affect. However for those that do not have barbs already would they may be worth purchasing?



-yonton228/timmy

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No, not so much to make any sort of real temperature difference, but I'm always happy with anything. I like them well enough than any new barbs I order will be the Fatboy barbs though. I used to only order D-Tek barbs, and EK makes a nice one too. Now I'll go with these instead.:up:

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Originally Posted by Boogerlad

martin, can you test some of the bitspower compression fittings?

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I had some samples, but I never got around to testing them. From what I can remember the ID was less than 10.0mm so I lost interest. Alot of people seem to like them, but I'm more of a barb guy myself.:shrug:

It seems that watercoolingshop does not ship internationally. So unless there is another source for the reducers, non UK PA120.x owners will have to stick with the EK barb I guess. Interesting test though. I would definitely go with those danger den barbs for any new barb purchases. That Feser radiator looks interesting.

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