Would this pump be a bad idea.....

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12-03-2007, 09:44 AM
serial099

Would this pump be a bad idea.....

1250 vs. 1260

I know that a Laing 3.2 pump (/w aftermarket top of course) or a D5 but I have a relay card that I want to use in my next system and don't want it to go to waste. Was wondering if an Eheim 1260 would have too big of a heat dump (at 65w) vs the 1250 (at 28w) for it to be considered viable for my watercooling setup. The GPH flow rate on the 1260 is roughly double the 1250 (635 vs. 317) and the head height is 12' on the 1260 vs. 6'7" on the 1250.

I don't want to spend the premium on the IWAKI pumps, but if that's really all there is as far as a good AC pump then I'd consider it. From what I've read Eheim are pretty good pumps (quiet, reliable and good performers).

Any thoughts on any of this from some with experience with AC pumps?
12-03-2007, 10:23 AM
AAjax

Quote:

Originally Posted by serial099

1250 vs. 1260

I know that a Laing 3.2 pump (/w aftermarket top of course) or a D5 but I have a relay card that I want to use in my next system and don't want it to go to waste. Was wondering if an Eheim 1260 would have too big of a heat dump (at 65w) vs the 1250 (at 28w) for it to be considered viable for my watercooling setup. The GPH flow rate on the 1260 is roughly double the 1250 (635 vs. 317) and the head height is 12' on the 1260 vs. 6'7" on the 1250.

I don't want to spend the premium on the IWAKI pumps, but if that's really all there is as far as a good AC pump then I'd consider it. From what I've read Eheim are pretty good pumps (quiet, reliable and good performers).

Any thoughts on any of this from some with experience with AC pumps?

Just camp ebay, you can pick up an Iwaki md-20 for about 40-50$ shipped if your patient
12-03-2007, 11:13 AM
Waterlogged

My first kit was from Asetek that used a Hydor L30. It was OK as a starter kit and I was about to update the pump to a L35 when the CSP-Mag came out. I bought 1 of the Mags and have been in love with DC pumps ever since. To me, DC pumps just seem to all around better, less wiring hassles, more pressure (which is more important than total flow rate), and smaller.

Another thing to remember is that those Eheim #'s are for an open loop with no restriction and AC pumps don't deal with restrictions too well.

My advice would be to fleabay the relay card and put the money towards either of the Laing pumps.
12-03-2007, 11:31 AM
serial099

Thanks Aajax and waterlogged, I think what I'll to to double-check is measure off the space an Iwaki and some Laing's in my case and get an approximation of how much space it'll take up in my case. I should be picking it up from the paint place later on today.

I wasn't aware that AC pumps didn't deal with restrictions too well. Definetly something I'll keep in mind. I assume waterlogged that the Laing are pretty quiet? I have some gel stuff to mount my pump on, so either way that won't be causing me noise in my case.
12-03-2007, 11:43 AM
Cascades

I have used Eheim pumps before and they are ok for very simple systems. I am using three DDC3.2 pumps with Petra's tops now, and I really like them because they are small and push a lot of water.

Also, it was nice to get rid of the 110V relay board I was using with the Eheim pump on the old system. Less hassle, less wiring, and the DDC3.2 pumps have a RPM lead that you can use to monitor the RPM of the pump.
12-03-2007, 11:59 AM
Waterlogged

If you have the gel, get the D5. From the info provided by the user, I have reason to believe that the gel killed his DDC 3.2 by melting and oozing up into the PCB and shorting it out.

I have 2 DDC 2 pumps and when the rigs they are in are running, I can't hear them over the HDD's (I'm currently working on quieting these down now as well) and fans (when I turn them up). I suspect the D5 to be nearly as quiet.
Most of my rigs (when they are running) are within ~2-2½ Ft of my head as they are on wire shelving I bolted to the top of my computer workstation desk (88"w x 66" deep x 53" tall [including hutch], U shaped :D)
12-03-2007, 12:27 PM
super dank

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

I suspect the D5 to be nearly as quiet.

The D5 doesn't make any noise at all. None.

If you touch it you can feel it vibrate, but it is below an audible frequency. Up to you if it's worth the money though. I have two D5's in my system.
12-03-2007, 01:58 PM
Forsaken1

Previously had the 1048.Recently picked up the 1250.1048 had no issues going thru cpu,res,full gpu block and bip 3x120mm.Maintined good temps,with acceptable flow rate.With that said.My next pump/s will be DC not AC.
12-03-2007, 02:12 PM
serial099

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I think I'm probably going to go with the D5 based on things I have read hear. Waterlogged, I remember reading that thread and that gel stuff was pretty baked, but I thought it wasn't 100% what caused it, just that the gel melted as a result of the pump failing/getting too hot. I could be wrong of course.

Super Dank, nice to see someone else from Va Beach on here. It's kinda hard for me when I am by far the biggest nerd outta my group of friends (none of them even heard of any kind of watercooling for computers when I started doing it). They were all like "you can do that, that's kinda cool".
12-04-2007, 01:20 AM
Waterlogged

Well, I'm so certain that I'd be willing to finish off a partially fried DDC2 (thanks Alphacool [running ~50%] ;)) I have laying about for the sake of testing this out if you'd like me to. I could setup a small loop not cooling anything and just let it run and the heat from the pump could be the heat source (quite hot thanks to the PCB having touched some PC Ice).

I think the gel acts like an insulator and holds all the heat until it reaches point of failure. Failure in this case would be the melting point. As hot as the pump runs, I doubt it'd take very long to reach POF sitting on the gel.
12-04-2007, 04:13 AM
serial099

I didn't know that particular pump got that hot. Just outta curiousity, have you ever seen any numbers to how hot that gets? If not, no big deal of course, just curious. The D5 looks like a pretty good 2nd. choice pump, but I wish that I could go with something that has a top like the 3.2. I guess I could toss the gel stuff as well and get a 3.2 /w Petra's top, but then I'd have to get a mounting bracket for it to cut down on pump vibration noise. Money isn't a problem for me right now, but don't want to be totally wasting it either.
12-04-2007, 11:50 AM
Waterlogged

Well, the pump I'm offering to test this out with gets much hotter than most, only because it's had some of is circuits already damaged by a leaking AC top. I've had a DDC 2 sitting on sound absorbing foam for over 7 months running 24/7 and it barely got warm. If you can find a way to raise it or get cool air to blow over it, you should be fine.

I've decided to go a bit Xtreme cooling mine. It's not really needed, just something I got carried away with when the idea came up. The final mount may not even be what you see here, but it will be close.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9593/img0175ig3.jpg

That is the very same pump that sat on the SA foam. It sat on the SA foam without the heat sink. I'm currently swapping all the hardware from a CM Centurion 5 to a Yeong Yang YY-0221B that's been heavily modified.
12-04-2007, 12:27 PM
Duh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

That is the very same pump that sat on the SA foam. It sat on the SA foam without the heat sink. I'm currently swapping all the hardware from a CM Centurion 5 to a Yeong Yang YY-0221B that's been heavily modified.

:up: that cases are lovely
12-04-2007, 02:25 PM
shabranigdo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Well, the pump I'm offering to test this out with gets much hotter than most, only because it's had some of is circuits already damaged by a leaking AC top. I've had a DDC 2 sitting on sound absorbing foam for over 7 months running 24/7 and it barely got warm. If you can find a way to raise it or get cool air to blow over it, you should be fine.

I've decided to go a bit Xtreme cooling mine. It's not really needed, just something I got carried away with when the idea came up. The final mount may not even be what you see here, but it will be close.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9593/img0175ig3.jpg

That is the very same pump that sat on the SA foam. It sat on the SA foam without the heat sink. I'm currently swapping all the hardware from a CM Centurion 5 to a Yeong Yang YY-0221B that's been heavily modified.

Interesting pump mount. I am curious do you think the heatsink adds value? I understand putting a fan under it or the pump in front of one, I plan to make 3" high square tubes and mount small fans in the tube with the dcc's sitting about and inch or so from the fan at the top of the tube, basically little shrouds for my pumps, maybe overkill but i built a sheet metal bending break and I was fooling around with some scraps when i got the idea. The reason I ask about the sink is its not touching anything metal or very conductive of heat i would assume to transfer the heat from, looking at the bottom of the dcc's i just got there isn't even any kind of hole or vent just the circle thing on the bottom not even sure what that is. (still don't have enough part to even turn then on atm) I guess if you think that helps it would be pretty easy for me to pick up a few small sinks or see if i can salvalge any from dead machines. Oh and thanks I was wondering if you can mount the pump on its side like that, that answers one of my questions.
12-04-2007, 03:46 PM
Xilikon

IMHO, a heatsink on the back is not needed since it's plastic and it's not a good conductor of heat. Just having a fan blowing on the bottom is enough to cool it.
12-04-2007, 05:50 PM
serial099

@Waterlogged

That's a pretty ingenious mounting setup you got going on there. I assume that's really only to keep the pump itself a little cooler and doesn't really affect temps in the loop too much.

Not to be a noob with this question, but what is SA foam?
12-04-2007, 05:57 PM
Cascades

Here is a very easy way to mount the fans..... These pumps run very cool with the 60mm fans.

http://www.993tt.com/computer/newcase/pumps2_600.jpg
http://www.993tt.com/computer/newcase/shelf1_600.jpg
12-04-2007, 05:58 PM
madmaxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by serial099

@Waterlogged

what is SA foam?

sound absorbing ;)
12-04-2007, 06:06 PM
serial099

Oh duh to me. Never saw SA used before....now neoprene I'm quite familiar with that...

@cascades did you make that bracket or did you get that somewhere?
12-05-2007, 12:47 AM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duh

:up: that cases are lovely

Yep, the poor man's MM. :lol2:
The only thing I don't like about them is the Optical/floppy drive door, so I've removed mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabranigdo

Interesting pump mount. I am curious do you think the heatsink adds value? I understand putting a fan under it or the pump in front of one, I plan to make 3" high square tubes and mount small fans in the tube with the dcc's sitting about and inch or so from the fan at the top of the tube, basically little shrouds for my pumps, maybe overkill but i built a sheet metal bending break and I was fooling around with some scraps when i got the idea. The reason I ask about the sink is its not touching anything metal or very conductive of heat i would assume to transfer the heat from, looking at the bottom of the dcc's i just got there isn't even any kind of hole or vent just the circle thing on the bottom not even sure what that is. (still don't have enough part to even turn then on atm) I guess if you think that helps it would be pretty easy for me to pick up a few small sinks or see if i can salvalge any from dead machines. Oh and thanks I was wondering if you can mount the pump on its side like that, that answers one of my questions.

Well. when I touched my DDC 2 when it was running, the bottom was by far the warmest spot. If you pull the DDC apart and measure, the PCB is within 1.40mm (.0555 for you non metric's) of the bottom housing and some of the solder is even closer. Like I said, I got carried away when I came up with the mounting idea and one thing led to another. It's very unlikely it's actually needed. I do have some Microcool Chomerics Thermattach T411 holding the heat sink on and I have to say that I'm not impressed by it. It's almost as bad as the original MC14 thermal tape.

If mounting on the side, try to make sure the outlet is on top. If not, it could lead to some serious bleeding headaches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by serial099

@Waterlogged

That's a pretty ingenious mounting setup you got going on there. I assume that's really only to keep the pump itself a little cooler and doesn't really affect temps in the loop too much.

Thanks.

I'm not expecting it to affect water temps but you never know. :shrug: It's going to be impossible for me to tell as well as the loop is going to have a few more things in it than it did before I tore everything apart.

I should note that if you get the proper sized spacers and screws, you can attach the fan directly to the pump using the screws that secure the top. I may be swapping out the setup I currently have now to do that instead.