CM Stacker 832 Dual Loop Work Log...

well, i guess i'm an addict... so here's my 3rd attempt at WC'ing, hopefully, i wont drill through the radiators this time and also with a wee bit more planning, hoping it comes out nicer than my previous 2...

Parts List:

Computer:
QX6700 Lapped (rcvd)
P5K Premium (rcvd)
4GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-1066 (rcvd)
8800 Ultra (rcvd)
2x Raptor 74GB RAID 0 (rcvd & toasted :confused: )
1x Seagate Barracuda 320GB SATA 3.0 GB/S 7200RPM (rcvd)
DVD: hmm... I swear I wrote it down somewhere… but I got it and it’s SATA… I think… :hitself:

Loop 1: RAD > CPU > NB > SB > RES > PUMP > RAD
PA120.3 (rcvd)
D-Tek Fuzion (rcvd)
EK ASUS @ NB (rcvd)
EK ASUS @ SB (rcvd)
MCRES Retapped (rcvd)
DDC 3.2 18W + Derlin Top (rcvd)
YL D12SM-12 70.5CFM 33dBA
1/2" or 7/16" depending on which way the wind blows at time of purchase... :D

Loop2: RAD > GPU > RES > PUMP > RAD
PA160 (rcvd)
EK 8800 GTX FC Nickel (rcvd)
MCRES Retapped (rcvd)
DDC 3.2 18W + Derlin Top (rcvd)
YL D12SM-12 70.5CFM 33dBA
1/2" or 7/16"

As for general planning/layout, I am planning on modding the case moderately to mount the PA120.3 at bottom and PA160 at top.
I will do away with the quad fan grill at the side panels and opt for a quieter solution by also replacing the mesh with plexi, and using some material to offer some sort of sound insulation...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9...atorLayout.jpg


Well, to break up the project into stages, I hope to complete accordingly… and hope I can balance between workload and this project.

Part1: Heatload and Flowrates
Part2: Preliminary Setup: POST
Part3: Case Mods
Part4: WC Loop 1 Assembly
Part5: WC Loop 2 Assembly
Part6: Test/Temps/OC?

well, i'm trying to balance this build with my upcoming peak travel season so thanks in advance for your patience...

and any comments and suggestions are welcomed... i am still a noob at this so all the merrier...

i do get confused quite easily so... be warned... :D

i've lurked around a bit here and there and tried to find the most intelligent way of picking parts and planning the build...

i've read a thread (linked below) a couple of days ago was very informative and hopefully i got this done right...

For Heatloads, I used this link provided by Marci in his previous posts to get approximate heat load for each loop:

Loop 1 entered the following fields:
System Type: Single Processor
Motherboard: Regular
CPU: Intel Core2 Extreme QX6700
CPU Utilization: 100% TDP
Pump: Swiftech MCP 355

Heat Load: 148W (186W – 38W)
NB/SB Load: 100W*
HeatLoad: 248W

*note, as per post by Marci at http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...03&postcount=4 , I am estimating chipset to be at 100W.

Loop2 entered the following fields:
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 Ultra
Pump: Swiftech MCP 355

Heat Load: 152W ( 190W – 38W)

Now, for flowrates, using MartinsWaterCooling FlowRateEstimator 1_7b, the following were the results:

Loop1: 1.58 GPM @
3’x ½” Tubing
1x D-Tek Fuzion
2x EK NF4 Rev1.1 (sub)
1x PA120.3
1x Lain DDC3.2+DDCT-01s
1x Reservoir (1/2” Barb)
1x T-Line (for drain)

Loop2: 1.95 GPM @
3’x ½” Tubing
1x EK-FC8800
1x PA160
1x Lain DDC3.2+DDCT-01s
1x Reservoir (1/2” Barb)
1x T-Line (for drain)

So in reference to the following charts from Thermochill

http://www.thermochill.com/PATesting...lowrateGPM.jpg

Loop1 utilizing PA120.3 with total heat load of 248W @ 1.58 GPM, Nexus 12v or 1212 7v should be sufficient, hence by choosing the YL D12SM-12 70.5CFM 33dBA I should have appx 500W of heat dissipation, giving me ample head room.
Even assuming max CPU load at OC’d to be at 250W + 100W NB/SB for total of 350W, the current selections should provide me ample headroom for “worst case scenario”.

http://www.thermochill.com/PATesting...lowrateGPM.jpg

Loop2 utilizing PA160 with total heat load of 152W @ 1.98 GPM, I will need at least 1212M 7V to provide ample heat dissipation. And again, my choice of YL D12SM-12 70.5CFM 33dBA I should have appx 225W of heat dissipation @ 2.0 GPM, hence giving me ample head room for a single card configuration…

Note: as per Thermochill's site:
Pf H = Panaflo FBA12G12-H1A - 105cfm, 6.8mmH2O, 41.5dBA @ 12v (Factory spec)
1212M = Delta WFB1212M - 72.4cfm, 3.4mmH2O, 34dBA @ 12v (Factory spec)
Nexus = Nexus D12SL-12 - 36.8cfm, 22.8dBA @12v (Factory spec)


again, i am new at this so if you guys spot something wrong here, pls by all means, let me know... thanks!

Nice project. I should try to draw something like this for mine.
My $0.02:

- some guys here said that a negative air pressure inside the case is a good thing. Did you plan for the side panel fans to pull air out of the case?
- You could add a Hi end board at the psu calculator to preview your mobo heat load. It should be around 50W according to the PSU calc.
- I don't see any reason to go for a PA160 for the GPU when you have spare cooling at the PA120.3 but the flow restriction. Why don't loose the hot nvidia mobo and buy an Intel P35 or the new X38 and cut the NB/SB loop? Even if you want just one loop it should achieve 1.31 GPM. Not great but according to Marci flowrate impact is over estimated

now this is sweet, I like a lot. So lets get to the ideas. Some thoughts:
Will the PA160 fit? wont it interfere with something? PSU maybe?
I dont like (xtreme performance-wise) having two NB blocks with a CPU in one loop, although the EKs dont restrict much. I know that in the way you have it, there is nothing sticking out of the case, but have you came across the idea of having a PA120 or MCR 240's or 360's attached at the back of the case in a lopp where are the GPU and both NB blocks? And still double check if it all fits, the PA rads are quite huge :)

This looks very interesting :) I'm sure you have seen the other 830 WC, so good luck.

Only issue is the PA160 is mightly cramp up there, so you may have to make some modifications up there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leo_bsb

- some guys here said that a negative air pressure inside the case is a good thing. Did you plan for the side panel fans to pull air out of the case?

---

well, i plan to do away with the side fans all together... i am not fond of having too many fans especially at the side of the case... i am a bit concerned in that i will have at least 5 fans pushing air in and 2 fans dedicated to pushing air out of case, perhpas i will keep mesh at one of the side panels... i really hoped not to tho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leo_bsb

- You could add a Hi end board at the psu calculator to preview your mobo heat load. It should be around 50W according to the PSU calc.

---

i've ran a couple of scenarios and it seems that with the headroom i have, it can handle the additional 50w...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leo_bsb

- I don't see any reason to go for a PA160 for the GPU when you have spare cooling at the PA120.3 but the flow restriction. Why don't loose the hot nvidia mobo and buy an Intel P35 or the new X38 and cut the NB/SB loop? Even if you want just one loop it should achieve 1.31 GPM. Not great but according to Marci flowrate impact is over estimated

---

um... i have a Asus P5K Premium... iirc, that is a P35 board... as for the PA160, i own it already... so might as well put it to use... i am itching to do a dual loop...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerosupra

now this is sweet, I like a lot. So lets get to the ideas. Some thoughts:
Will the PA160 fit? wont it interfere with something? PSU maybe?
I dont like (xtreme performance-wise) having two NB blocks with a CPU in one loop, although the EKs dont restrict much. I know that in the way you have it, there is nothing sticking out of the case, but have you came across the idea of having a PA120 or MCR 240's or 360's attached at the back of the case in a lopp where are the GPU and both NB blocks? And still double check if it all fits, the PA rads are quite huge :)

---

yea, the PA160 mounting is the biggest issue i have... my PSU is a tad longer but still not oversized like those Galaxy's... so i should be OK, i taped it and marked up the top of the chassis and it seems that i have room to raise my 160 only bout 1/2" to 3/4" above the chassis top frame before it touches the top panel.
definitely dont want to mount it to the top panel since it would mean my tubes will have to have too much slack...

as for NB/SB, i figured i have the most headroom available on my PA120.3 loop and hence my choice there. i have seen folks mounting rads to the back, and in all honesty, i am not fond of it. i like to see it inside, clean on the outside... hence one of my biggest challenge is to somehow prop up the case appx 3~4 inches and then create a leg/foot/skirt that will cover it nicely without hindering airflow.... and prolly put some velcro around the floor to catch thems dust bunnies... :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SP33DFR34K

This looks very interesting :) I'm sure you have seen the other 830 WC, so good luck.

Only issue is the PA160 is mightly cramp up there, so you may have to make some modifications up there.

---

thanks... yea, the PA160 is going to be a challenge... but...

Bright Yellow n Black Drill of Ultimate Destruction: Check!
Jigsaw: Check!
Enthusiasm: Check!
Stupidity: Check!
Pissed off Wife:... sadly... Check!

so.. thanks for the feedback...
post some pics later on...

then gooood luck, maybe, if there is some room left, you could consider a second pump to the cpu, 2 nb loop ...
Try that out - leave the gpu with stock heatsink for the time and try one pump and then try adding the second and measure the diff,
congratz on such a nice and fairly complicated project, keep us posted :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerosupra

then gooood luck, maybe, if there is some room left, you could consider a second pump to the cpu, 2 nb loop ...
Try that out - leave the gpu with stock heatsink for the time and try one pump and then try adding the second and measure the diff,
congratz on such a nice and fairly complicated project, keep us posted :up:

---

tyvm...

but serioursly, you got me thinking... should i keep the CPU loop all by itself?
with the PA120.3, there's an awful lot it can still do... and putting the CPU loop on the PA160 is not that comforting to me atm.

as for PA120.3 being HUGE... yea... it is HUUUUUUUGE...

but over at the Slacker Stacker thread, i saw GameGuru work on his case, and hence got idea of mounting it at the bottom...

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...Picture037.jpg
*Note, Pic from GameGuru's work...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kinghong1970

um... i have a Asus P5K Premium... iirc, that is a P35 board... as for the PA160, i own it already... so might as well put it to use... i am itching to do a dual loop...

---

Well, the P35 doesnt really need NB/SB blocks. But if you want to go dual loop who am I to tell you not to do?:ROTF:
Good luck, you already started doing some great planning.
regarding the fans, I'm having the same problem. I'll do more research on negative/positive pressure and if it is relevant. Right now the only solution I found is to reverse the ATX recomendations for air circulation inside my case: I'll have cold air from the top and hot air exiting at the bottom. You coudn't do that cause you are already using the front bottom fan to push into the PA160

@ leo,

yea, well, you know, there are times i dont take the time and ask myself those self check questions... normally that happens when i'm in an electronics store... i think my wife had something to do with the closing down of CompUSA near my house...

why do we do the things we do?...

:D

well, basically, if there is enough airflow into the case from the front, then i should still be ok to re-arrange my fans to push air out of the case, through the radiator right? hence:

PA160 will have the fan pull internal air through the shroud, out through the radiator,

PA120.3 will have fan pull internal air through the rad, out the bottom of the radiator...

my main concern here is, will i have enough air to pull out of case?
i am pulling "warmed" air from inside the case...

Very cool idea. I like your plans for the PA160 that's pretty original. I have a Stacker 830 with a single loop at the moment, but I'm thinking of doing dual loops as well. The only issue I see with your 160 is that is a great spot for hot air to escape. Trying to pull cold air in there might not be effective. Also is your Power Supply modular? If not, you may not have a lot of room with any extra cables. Just a thought...

I have my 2x120 rad mounted in the front pulling air from outside.

Because your space restricted why don't you consider 1x 2x120 mounted in the front pulling air from outside and 1x 2x120 mounted on the bottom exhausting.

Just a thought.

Pics Pls!

nice plan :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _Slim_Shady_

Very cool idea. I like your plans for the PA160 that's pretty original. I have a Stacker 830 with a single loop at the moment, but I'm thinking of doing dual loops as well. The only issue I see with your 160 is that is a great spot for hot air to escape. Trying to pull cold air in there might not be effective. Also is your Power Supply modular? If not, you may not have a lot of room with any extra cables. Just a thought...

---

SlimShady, my PSU is modular and furthermore, the PA160 is wide but the portion that is nearest the PSU cables will be the shroud and so i am thinking that i have enough room to play with... worst case scenario is to turn that sucker 90deg at risk of loosing some structural strength, that way, i do have clearance from PSU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by david256

I have my 2x120 rad mounted in the front pulling air from outside.

Because your space restricted why don't you consider 1x 2x120 mounted in the front pulling air from outside and 1x 2x120 mounted on the bottom exhausting.

Just a thought.

---

thanks for the idea, sadly, the other PA120.2 that i had, i was over zealous with my DeWalt drill and i pretty much got a good look at the insides of one of these radiators... and i own a PA160 on hand...

plus, i like the way the PA160 basically fits the size of the top screen...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patriote

Pics Pls!

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let me get some pics worthy of posting...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Beast

nice plan :up:

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thank you...

now i am a bit concerned about the air flow...

1)i am NOT going to use the side panel 4x120 fan grid and so the side panels will not be offering any active air flow.
2)the side panels will not offer much air flow for they will be replaced with plexiglass
3)the MB will be mounted in "BTX style" )?) (CPU downwards, PCI slots at top)

here's plan 1, original thought...
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9...torLayout2.jpg
this layout basically means i will have 4 x 70 CFM, and at least 1 additional fan blowing air into the case through the HDD cage.
whereas the only fan blowing air out of the case will be the 120mm fan near CPU area and the weak fan mounted on the PSU.
even if i do get a louder and higher CFM fan at the back of case, still there is a lot more air pumped into the case...

after reading your comments... here's plan 2...
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9...torLayout3.jpg
where air flow into the case is provided by PA160 at top, the HDD Cage fan and another fan mounted at front...
the bottom PA120.3 will pull out the inner air, hopefully cooler air provided by the lower front intake fan, and push out of the case.

my concern now is that the PA120.3 does not have enough cool air supply...

the PA160 air will be warmed by the radiator, and also the inner parts
the HDD cage air will also be warmer-ish since it would have passed through the HDD and some hardware...
the lower intake fan is probably the only fan that provides cooler air that passes directly over the PA120.3 but then it also flows through the RAM and CPU/MOSFET area as well.

perhaps place a higher CFM fan at the lower front intake?

just some thoughts...

i'd really hate to use that big fan grid on the side panel...

thanks!

well, I would never pull warm air through the rad. There is no benefit from it.
You will need to test all possible configurations, but pushing cool air through the rad is always the best option as far as I learn something right.
You couldo a positive pressure case, leaving a mesh on the side panel to exit the air.

to be honest, i cant imagine how you will mount pa120.3
ive measured my case hundred times but still dont have any idea, there are only 5cm between bottom and mobo, theoretically you may lift mobo at 1cm more, so itll be 6 cm with 5.9 height in radiator.. ant there are fans also ..
it's a real challenge to mount this, problem #1 for stacker 830 owners

rioja, see the pic up there with the hole cut out and edge molded? well the PA120.3 will be outside of that chassis, not inside of the chassis.

also, flipping it upside down and mounting the MB tray so the MB will be mounted semi BTX style gives a wee bit more room...

as for bottom, i will need to extend the legs to give ample clearance.

If you need to, only pull in through the rads, have even the front fan be exhaust.

IDK what kind of PSU you'll be using, nor do I know much about CFM through a PSU, so I can't help there. BUT, the SMs will only be pulling ~40CFM each through a PA (they only do 55ish CFM at 12V, not 70), and the '110CFM' fan you have on the side panel is actually 87CFM....and that mesh looks fairly limiting, so let's say 80CFM.

4x40 in = 160 in
80+55+PSU = 135+PSU out

....that's with only the rads pulling in cool air :)

Vapor, thanks for taking time and working out the numbers.... it helps noobs like me understand what you are talking about...

couple of things...

1) according to Plan1, then i have 5x40cfm (1@PA160, 1@HDD Cage, 3@PA120.3) hence total air in will be 200cfm

2) i dont quite understand where you get the 55cfm in the out... are you suggesting reversing the HDD cage fan direction such that air flow through the HDD and out the front of case?

as for PSU, well, i jumped in and got a X3 1000-Watt Energy Efficient Modular Power Supply (ULT40064)...

hmm... so i guess the 70 cfm is when it is not hindered by any radiator... thanks for the info. so the performance of the Thermochills are also take this into consideration? the CFM posted there are the CFM of fans w/o any obstacles?

thanks again!

Let me interject here. I have done this and I know kinghong1970 has been following some of my work over in the Stacker Slacker thread so I'll post some here as well. I am almost done with my system and will be testing my temps soon which I will report back with. I can tell you that the air coming in from the bottom of the case is very cool, I'm using 3 YL SL's. (Imagine if you put your system over a register in your house with AC :) ) Anyhow I don't see how the air from the floor is going to be that much hotter than what's inside your case already, and the cool air coming up in the case cools the MB components before it exits the top and back. Like I said before though at this time I don't have the temp readings to back this up but I can say the air coming in the case is pretty damn cool.


http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...ker_832045.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...ker_832148.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...ker_832144.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...ker_832029.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...Picture021.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...Picture038.jpg

sexy lol

damn, very nice!

Yeah very sexy! :D