Experiment Cu: vinegar, vinegar + salt, solvent

Just to see how copper reacts to these 3 WC component cleaning agents, I'm doing an experiment.

10:00 AM PST Feb 11, 2007
Each vial contains 4 copper wires and 1 copper strip.
1: vinegar
2: vinegar with some salt, shaked up
3: paint thinner (solvent, couldn't find any alcohol)
Room temperature: 20.0'C

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1568/dsc01143zy0.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8337/dsc01146ad3.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4775/dsc01152dg8.jpg

10:30AM: so far nothing is going on in #1, tiny bubbles are forming on #2, and nothing #3. g2g work back at 6PM
5:00PM: It's been 6:30 hours, nothing is going on still. The bubbles on #2 are gone.
8:40PM: sample liquids drained so Cu are exposed to air, samples placed outside, overnight temp 2'C (can't stand the smell of vinegar and paint thinner lol)

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/560/dsc01153kh9.jpg

Day2 8:15AM: vial #2's liquid is slightly blue-ish, the other 2 still have nothing going on.

Interesting. Keep us updated.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thrilla

tiny bubbles are forming on #2

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Sounds like corrosion already!

Hmm, what is that blue stuff at the bottom of each vile?

The blue stuff is the reflection of the marker, I use a lamp on my desk so the reflections are quite bright. Nothing is in the containers besides test liquid and copper.

Maybe it´s time to send mythbusters an email about this :p:

Could you do us a favor and allow the tubes readied access to the air.
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03505.htm
http://www.chem.umn.edu/outreach/Car...VinCopper.html

Since when we put the vinegar in the radiators it'll mix up with the air causing greater amounts of oxidation compared to the capped vials you have there. Since they are capped hardly any oxidation will occur hence your experiment has a fundamental flaw.

vinegar is acidic and will therefore be more corrosive and conductive aswell. its a good cleaner but dont leave it in the pipes.

Thanks for pointing that out Kurz! All samples moved outside though, they smell horrible!

Another thing you could implement is stirring every so often. Just to get oxygen into the vinegar.

Maybe once every 6 hours?

day 2: 10:00 AM
Results are in, see for yourselves. (btw the solvent vial was a little dirty to start with, it hasn't changed a bit.)
Left to right
solvent, vinegar+salt, vinegar
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/383...1161vl5.th.jpg

The solvent is looking good

I like the pretty blue color. :D

Should of had a set of bets placed here...could of been fun

All bets from the start should have been placed on the vinegar with salt.

In all actuality the reason why the vinegar + salt is reacting is because vinegar unless in its pure acetic acid form is highly diluted. Thus all we have done is stick copper in salt water with a pinch of acid which will slightly accelerate the reaction of the copper but not much faster than salt water itself.

I wonder if Salt with Iodine and Salt without Iodine makes much of a difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by npk

Maybe it´s time to send mythbusters an email about this :p:

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Actually, that might be a good idea. :eek:

Do you actually think corroding the copper means its a good cleaner??????

Iodine in of itself is a component of salts. Although Iodine is not as strong of reducing agent as chlorine or fluorine but still has the same properties.

As for corroding copper to clean, that is not a good idea as you are basically just adding aluminum to loop.

I am curious as to what 95% methanol or ethanol will do to clean the loops.

by" clean" do you mean remove built up contaminants such as coolant residue / dust / grease or whatever ?

why not buy some car radiator cleaner? i've had my car radiator "flushed" no idea what they used to do it.

my car a/c guy used to work as an engi. in the airforce...they were ordered to use creosote to flush the fuel lines in f1-11's :)

if you flush pipes with ethanol and let it dry it should evaporate very quickly; if it's anything like turps/meths/kerrosine. Would meths work?

clean white fluid that dissovles shyte in the pipes without causing corrosion....well whatever fluid you use to flush the pipes; it wont be there for long, so how is it going to corrode the pipes if it has all evaporated.?

water wetter i've heard is a good additive for cooling fluid.

distilled water with the ideal coolant...what is the ideal coolant? - a non corrosive fluid that doesnt build up residue in the pipes while increasing specific heat of the water.

the higher the concentration of contaminant (including coolants) the more likely it will form a residue on the pipe walls. i bet there is also an anti-corrosion additive (anti-oxidant?) at the auto shop too.

increasing acidity will increase the rate of all types of chemical reactions including corrosion.

you are not supposed to leave acids in contact with cu or aluminium they will oxidise more quickly, however acidic solutions do work as cleaning agents and as you have so far proven the acidity of vinegar is quite low.

i have put concentrated hydrochoric acid onto aluminium...it gets incredibly hot and "smokes" and turns instantly black with oxide. copper turns instantly green with 'verdigris' oxidation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NickS

Actually, that might be a good idea. :eek:

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damn straight then they can finally prove something that matters to US

So yea... I forgot about the experiment and they were left outside:
Translucent blue being Vinegar + Salt, transparent blue being Vinegar, clear being solvent paint thinner. (I got rid of the yellow lighting in solvent one in my sig, liquid itself is crystal clear, also the bubbles in solvent were oils dropped in there by accident, it had no effect on the copper what so ever since they didnt touch, and solvent is lighter than oil anyway.)

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9945/dsc01345jx6.jpg
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5228/dsc01355rb3.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/350/dsc01346ql2.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8536/dsc01347bf5.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/1446/dsc01351pl7.jpg
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8079/dsc01352ct1.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6748/dsc01354nm0.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/219/dsc01357qx1.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6691/dsc01356zk8.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4889/dsc01358on2.jpg

Looks like leaving vinegar in a rad for extended periods of time isn't exactly the best thing to do. Don't dump your blocks for 2 days in ketchup either. :3

So paint thinner would probably work. Isn't it somewhat dangerous to use?

How long were they left outside.