Philly's G80 Waterblock Review - Work log **56K Warning**

I am in the process of acquiring 4 sets of G80 waterblocks to do a comparison review. So far, Gabe@ Swiftech and Alex @ Petra's have come thru with a load of "loaners". The guys @ Danger Den and Eddy @ EK are both also contributing lotsa stuff (tubing, extra barbs, a Fluke MM for temps/voltages). I also have the expertise of OPPAINTER (Swiftech) and ROKK (DD's design engineer) to help with ensuring the data is gathered as fairly as possible.

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First off I will be comparing the MCW-60 to the Apogee 1U (with ram sinks on the ramdac, VRM's and memory modules and fans blowing directly on the ram sinks.) then eventually I'll be comparing both of them to the DD NV-88 and EK's soon-to-be-released FC-8800 full coverage blocks. I will also be playing with 226 watt pelts on the Apogee 1U's fed by a Meanwell SP-320-13.5. We will see if the FC blocks are better cost vs performance to something more basic (MCW-60 or Apogge 1U with ram sinks).

I am going to try it all in my current loop (link in my sig) as it is now, then add a second MCP-355 (with Petra's top of course!) to see if the increased flow/head will help a loop trying to cool 4 blocks (CPU/GPU x 2/chipset). I will also compare data with the CPU/NF4 on a seperate loop (MCP-355/EK RES 150/BI GTX240 or the Swifty MCR 220 rad feeding my Storm G4/Maze 4 Expert) and allow my standard loop - PA120.3/MCP355 (Petra's top)/Cyclone 120 res - to cool just the blocks used for the comparison.

Right now I am doing the mundane things like rad prep while I wait on the shipments from Danger Den and EK.

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Stay tuned as I get ready to lap my FX-60, Storm G4, Maze 4 Expert, Apogee 1U and MCW-60 blocks to 1500 grit/brasso polish. Then it's off to prep the 8800GTX's and get the right fans in the right place. I am also going to replace my Noise Isolator fan controller with a Sunbeam Rheobus as the Noise Isolator make the fans whine worse than my gf when I tell her no she can't buy another pair of shoes!!

I will post pics of the entire journey and then you can see the final polished review on the front page of XS!!

That's quite a kit there, looks to be an interesting comparison, I'm looking forward to it.

Looking good, well blagged!

woah alot of work ahead mate... good luck :D

really interesting stuuf there ...
the G80 results will be awesome :toast:
Got my fingers crossed and stayin tuned ..
... GOOD LUCK :toast:

Brasso?
I didn't see a spitoon in the pics.

subscribed :D

Good initiative, we really need more GPU block reviews!

Sounds lika a lot of fun. (And work!)

Btw how big are those pelts and where did you get them?

sorry, but I was too busy looking at the Barista expresso maker....Ive always wanted one.:slobber: :D

Looks like one hell of a comparison you've got going. May I ask how you plan to find and compare temps, and if you will also be comparing overclocks? Will you be measuring ambient temp to ensure it's the same during all testing?

I'm looking forward to seeing what you have in store for us. Thanks for your effort. :)

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Originally Posted by Philly_Boy

Stay tuned as I get ready to lap my FX-60, Storm G4, Maze 4 Expert, Apogee 1U and MCW-60 blocks to 1500 grit/brasso polish.

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I was under the impression that the process used during the WB milling process is far more precise than any lapping? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Istasi

I was under the impression that the process used during the WB milling process is far more precise than any lapping? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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According to Swiftech, their blocks are lapped to within +/- 0.0003" across the contact surface... so, basically, they're flatter than anything you'd ever get from a hand-done lapping job. As far as finish (smoothness) goes, anything beyond 600-grit or so is mainly for aesthetics--it's the flatness that really matters.

@ OP, don't you find the sunbeam 120mm fan a tad loud? I have one on and if I let it run with out a grill its a bit too shatering for my ears.

@ eva2000 - yeah. . .got a $h!t load of data to gather. . .how the addition of the GPU's affects the loop, if the second MCP355 helps the temps. . .and what happens when you got to seperate loops. I will average 10 runs of 3D Mark 05 & 06 along with fps readings from FEAR, Oblivion, Quake 4, Prey & HL2 Episode One. I will do this test for a single card as well as SLI.

It will be interesting to see how the full coverage blocks fare against the MCW-60 with ram sinks. I will be especially interested to see how they fare when I turn it up a notch and compare the FC blocks to the Apogee 1U's with a 226 watt pelt fed by a Meanwell SP-320-13.5 PSU.

I've never condensate proofed a video card before, but after reading about it and talking to OPPAINTER it doesn't seem tremendously difficult. A few coats of conformal spray on the back of the card, some clear nail varnish and dielectric grease on the back of the card and around the IHS followed by a few layers of closed cell neopreme. Styrofoam insulation and neopreme on the Apogee 1U's and I think I'll be set. I'll mod the original "775" hold down bracket from the Apogee 1U's to act as a rear hold down to put even pressure on the neopreme.

Anyway, pm me if you have any advice. . .I can use all the experienced clocker tips I can get. I cut my teeth on your I4Memory OC'ing guide, so if you have anything to add feel free!

@ clokker - no spitoon's, dude. . .gonna use the brasso as the final mirror polish for the IHS of the FX-60 and the Apogee 1U's.

@ andersson.j - they are 226 watt pelts I got from Petra's along with the cold plates.

@ poonani - yeah, I am a serious coffee snob. I use my Barista to make cafe mocha's and carmel maccciato's like 3-4x a day. Better than spending four bucks a piece @ Starbucks. They wind up costing me about 80 cents a piece to make. The Barista paid for itself in the first 6 months I owned it!

@ EnJoY - I have a Fluke mm to read ambient temps as well as voltages, etc. I will stick a temp sensor about 2" off my lowest intake fan and call that ambient. I'll adjust the room temp so all tests are run at the same ambient. I will run my FX-60 oc'ed to 3 ghz (24 hour dual prime stable) and I will be comparing temps as well as max overclocks of my volt modded 8800GTX's in single and SLI mode. See my comment to eva2000 for the data gathering/averaging.

So. . . if one block yields lower temps and a higher clock, then obviously it will score better in the 3D Mark 05/06 tests and get higher fps in the games. That's what the tests are all about! Much more real world as far as an enthusiast is concerned. If you buy one of these blocks after reading my review, you will pretty much know what to expect from it once you put it into your rig's water loop.

@ Istasi & Petra - After checking on Petra's statement (sheesh is he ever wrong? :slap: ) I do stand corrected. The Apogee 1U's base is considerably less shiny than the Storm's or MCW-60, so I may have a go at those blocks as well as hand lapping my FX-60's IHS. I think the proc will have much better surface to surface contact (and hopefully better temps!) once I expose the underlying copper in the IHS. Sheesh, I wish someone would tell us how to remove the IHS from the 8800GTX's GPU. Would love to do some naked GPU testing. . .

@ Timmay - I haven't actually mounted the Sunbeams yet, but if I cannot tame them with the Sunbeam Rheobus then I'll swap them out for Yate Loons, which I *know* are quiet. They will be on my top blow holes and the rear exhaust on the mobo tray on my MM U2-UFO case. Click on "The Wraith" link in my sig for a few pics of the rig.

Thank you one and all for the encouragement. I will be doing this test out @ Chilly1's house in Las Vegas. I'll be helping him to bang out his backlog of units by day and gathering data for this review by night. Anyway, off to dinner and some hand lapping while Grey's Anatomy is on. I'll post a few photo's of the FX-60 before and after later tonight.

Looks awesome man :)
There's really a lack of good gpu reviews out there. Keep up the good work (and the pics ;))

Great job just assembling that equipment. You are going to be a very busy guy! I like expresso machines too, but I won't go off topic :)

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Originally Posted by Istasi

I was under the impression that the process used during the WB milling process is far more precise than any lapping? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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I got two Apogee 1U Server blocks tonight that I am putting on my 8800GTXs and I did find that they are not completely flat. I drew an X with a marker and then started to lap them. The middle of the copper surface where the X crossed came off right away but it took some time to get the outer edges of the X to disappear. I finished with 1200 grit and they are now very flat and pretty. :banana:

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Originally Posted by BlackHawk2383

I got two Apogee 1U Server blocks tonight that I am putting on my 8800GTXs and I did find that they are not completely flat. I drew an X with a marker and then started to lap them. The middle of the copper surface where the X crossed came off right away but it took some time to get the outer edges of the X to disappear. I finished with 1200 grit and they are now very flat and pretty. :banana:

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I just lapped my FX-60 up to 600 grit. . .all I had on hand. I am having a dificult time sourcing 1000 and 1200 or 1500 grit sandpaper locally. Is it only available online? I will attack the Apogee 1U's tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Philly_Boy

I just lapped my FX-60 up to 600 grit. . .all I had on hand. I am having a dificult time sourcing 1000 and 1200 or 1500 grit sandpaper locally. Is it only available online? I will attack the Apogee 1U's tomorrow.

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Try Pepboys.

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Originally Posted by bruce+

Try Pepboys.

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I will do that tomorrow. . .thanks!

yeah another vote for Pepboy's that is where I found mine.


Hey Philly when you have all this together, can I stop by to check it out first hand?

whats going to happen with 7 packs of MC14 ramsinks?? thats alot of cash on just ramsinks...

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Originally Posted by phelan1777

yeah another vote for Pepboy's that is where I found mine.

Hey Philly when you have all this together, can I stop by to check it out first hand?

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Sure. . .we'll have to make a plan to hang out when I get back from Las Vegas with the cascade. Run some benches, game a little. . .sounds like a plan for between the holidays!

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Originally Posted by Sneaky

whats going to happen with 7 packs of MC14 ramsinks?? thats alot of cash on just ramsinks...

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Some I had, some are "loaners" from Swiftech for the review.

OK. . .I now know why lapping is so important. Theres no way my FX-60 IHS was flat. Take a looky:

This is the station in front of the hi def TV watching CSI (Grey's Anatomy was a rerun). The pooch (my gf's Shih-Tsu) is parked at my feet.
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After one sheet of 320 grit. You can still see the silk screening on the IHS:
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After the 2nd sheet of 320 grit. That silk screening is still there albeit more faint this time.
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After 3rd sheet of 320. Now we're getting somewhere!
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After one sheet of 400 grit to polish it a bit.
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After 500 grit. This was the finest grit I had laying about. Gotta get some 1000, 1200, and 1500 tomorrow @ Pep Boys, a local automotive store.
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lapped IHS is niceeee ... :D
let us see you in the FX60-mirror ... :D

Can I also lap an Intel IHS on the C2D? I mean like if I would wound the cpu somehow or somethin :stick: ...
... gee Im such a Intel n00b :D