DD vs EK Barbs

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11-06-2006, 02:12 PM
virtualrain

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DD vs EK Barbs

Based on all the EK barb endorsements I've seen around here, I ordered 6 for my water blocks (Apogee, MCW60, MCW30). I'm a bit confused now why everyone is endorsing these barbs.

Pics attached.

Here's some facts:

1. Flange size: The nut flange on the EK barbs is bigger(18mm wrench size) and the rubber o-ring is counter-sunk into a groove on the underside of the flange. This is only a problem when trying to thread the fitting into a Swiftech block... At least on the MCW30 and MCW60 I have, the flange will make contact with the rim of the block opening before the rubber o-ring makes contact with the seat. Are people actually using EK barbs in Swiftech blocks and getting water tight seals?

With the DD barbs, the flange is smaller (16mm wrench size), and will not make contact with the rim of the block as the fitting is threaded in. The o-ring is not counter-sunk into the flange, allowing the o-ring to make good contact with the seat on the block.

2. Thread length: There are four threads on the EK vs. 3 on the DD. The actual length of the threaded area below the flange is identical, the difference being that EK threaded one additional turn vs. DD. While this was touted as an advantage with the EK in other posts, the problem from #1 means the EK barb cannot engage any more thread than the DD on a Swiftech block since the EK flange will hit the block rim before all the threads can be engaged. The added thread on the EK can only be helpful when not using a Swiftech block where the mating surface does not have a rim.

3. Thread cut: Some people touted the EK barbs as having a rounded thread vs the sharp threads on the DD barbs. This is totally false. The two barbs have equally sharp threads. There is zero difference between the thread cut on these two barbs.

4. O-ring: As mentioned, the EK barbs use an o-ring that is slightly counter-sunk into the flange. The EK o-ring is larger... in fact, it is the same size as the o-rings included with the Swiftech plastic barbs. DD uses a smaller o-ring that is not counter-sunk. I don't think either design is better than the other except that the DD o-rings can be used with other G1/4 fittings and are therefore more universal - if you need to steal an o-ring for some kind of G1/4 adapter for example.

5. ID: The DD barb has a minutely larger ID than the EK barb. Not enough to be a consideration, I'm sure, but if you are looking for the least turbulence at the inlet to the block, DD is your choice because the lip at the end of the barb is thinner.

So given all this, and especially problem #1, I'm not sure why people recommend these barbs... especially for Swiftech blocks where a water tight seal would seem very unreliable.
11-06-2006, 02:19 PM
Shpoon

Well for one, the whole "counter-sunk o-ring" problem you seem to have doesn't exist...(Well, it's there), there's no problem with the seal, they work perfectly fine. Also, EK barbs I find are easier to slide on (tubing), and harder to take it off, plus, they look a lot nicer...
11-06-2006, 02:21 PM
virtualrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shpoon

Well for one, the whole "counter-sunk o-ring" problem you seem to have doesn't exist...(Well, it's there), there's no problem with the seal, they work perfectly fine. Also, EK barbs I find are easier to slide on (tubing), and harder to take it off, plus, they look a lot nicer...

It seemed to me when threading the EK barbs into the Swiftech block, the flange was making contact with the rim BEFORE I was getting any resistence from compression of the o-ring. I guess what must be happening is that the o-ring must be making some contact with the seat anyway... It just doesn't seem like much to me.

At any rate, even if the seal is ok with the EK barbs, there are no "real" advantages to the EK barbs vs DD... it's all opinion and preference.
11-06-2006, 02:24 PM
Shpoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by virtualrain

It seemed to me when threading the EK barbs into the Swiftech block, the flange was making contact with the rim BEFORE I was getting any resistence from compression of the o-ring. I guess what must be happening is that the o-ring must be making some contact with the seat anyway... It just doesn't seem like much to me.

Well, I can't comment on the Storm, but I know on the AquaExtrem MP-05, I was able to see the O-ring compress on the block before the barb touched the delrin top....I wonder if this could be a compatibility problem then?
11-06-2006, 02:31 PM
thunderstruck!

Virtualrain is right. That's why the mcw60 needs to be modded for use with ek barbs. Just sand/mod the lip of the top a little and that won't be a problem anymore.

Also, you're wrong on the ID part. EK and DD barbs both have 10mm ID. The EK barbs have a 0.75mm larger OD.
11-06-2006, 02:32 PM
virtualrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shpoon

Well, I can't comment on the Storm, but I know on the AquaExtrem MP-05, I was able to see the O-ring compress on the block before the barb touched the delrin top....I wonder if this could be a compatibility problem then?

The problems I mentioned above are only applicable to Swiftech blocks which have a rim/seat for the o-ring.
11-06-2006, 02:33 PM
virtualrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderstruck!

Virtualrain is right. That's why the mcw60 needs to be modded for use with ek barbs. Just sand/mod the lip of the top a little and that won't be a problem anymore.

Why bother... just use DD barbs!
11-06-2006, 02:34 PM
thunderstruck!

Have you managed to remove the o-ring from a EK barb?
11-06-2006, 02:41 PM
clokker

Quote:

Originally Posted by virtualrain

1. Flange size: The nut flange on the EK barbs is bigger(18mm wrench size) and the rubber o-ring is counter-sunk into a groove on the underside of the flange. This is only a problem when trying to thread the fitting into a Swiftech block...

The countersunk o-ring groove is actually the biggest advantage of the EK barb as it keeps the o-ring from 'creeping out" from under the flange when tightened.
On a normal flat surface this means that the barb can be tightened just a little bit more than the DD version without the o-ring deforming and losing it's seal.

That said, I ran into the same phenomonon as you with my Swiftech blocks- the flange bottomed out before the o-ring made substantial contact with the countersunk barb hole.
I have read of folks using two o-rings to fill the gap but that seemed like a Rube Goldberg approach so I removed the o-ring altogether and used Plumber's GOOP as a sealant on the threads instead.
It's worked fine and I've come to appreciate the added security it provides to the extent that I'll probably GOOP all my remaining barbs at the next loop reinstall and dispense with the o-rings on everything.
11-06-2006, 02:53 PM
_G_

can you use the DD o-ring on the EK barb?
11-06-2006, 02:55 PM
clokker

Quote:

Originally Posted by _G_

can you use the DD o-ring on the EK barb?

Yes, but it doesn't solve the problem that VR has encountered.
11-06-2006, 03:00 PM
_G_

thought the dd barb used a fatter o-ring going by the 3rd pic?
11-06-2006, 03:04 PM
virtualrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderstruck!

Have you managed to remove the o-ring from a EK barb?

No problem with a mini flat head screwdriver.
11-06-2006, 03:05 PM
virtualrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by clokker

Yes, but it doesn't solve the problem that VR has encountered.

Exactly. The bottom line is if you are using Swiftech blocks, just use DD barbs!
11-06-2006, 03:13 PM
clokker

Quote:

Originally Posted by _G_

thought the dd barb used a fatter o-ring going by the 3rd pic?

No, they are functionally identical...the EK ring looks thinner because it is partially sunk into the groove in the flange's bottom.
11-06-2006, 04:15 PM
nealh

On the MCW 60 the DD barb is the easiest way to go

on the storm rev2 use both the O-ring from palstic barb with the EK barb and it seals with no issues from reports in other threads...

the newer EK barb(those being made now) do in fact have a thicker O ring....
11-06-2006, 05:15 PM
Xion X2

Agree with virtualrain. I've tested the DD barbs on my Swiftech blocks, including the Storm and MCW60s, and had no problem screwing them in and getting a great seal. From all the talk around here I was expecting it to be a struggle, but it wasn't at all. Went on easy.
11-06-2006, 05:25 PM
nealh

Oh BTW, I have been told..if there is an O-ring..only hand tighten and then 1/4 extra turn...this will create a seal and probably avoid the Oring being squeezed out from over tightening and compression
11-06-2006, 08:11 PM
Senater_Cache

so the DD Hi-Flo barbs DO fit into the storm without complication? (thread size, o-ring)
11-06-2006, 08:33 PM
Batman!

Im using ek barbs with my MCW60, MCW30 chipset, and my MCRES micro.

Currently the mcw60 is in its own loop leaktesting, so far so good, no problems at all.

This is without any mods done to the block..
11-06-2006, 08:50 PM
el rolio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batman!

Im using ek barbs with my MCW60, MCW30 chipset, and my MCRES micro.

Currently the mcw60 is in its own loop leaktesting, so far so good, no problems at all.

This is without any mods done to the block..

would love to see pics.

as for my opinions/reasoning to promote EK barbs.
1. when i ordered 6 barbs from EK, total cost + shipping was cheaper than 6 barbs from DD.
2. o-ring sticks better to the EK barbs
3. look better to me
4. tubing would be easier to get on and secure with the ribs along the shaft.
5. i was under the impression the "sharper" edge on the EK barbs was at teh LIP (the edge the tubing connects at) and at the time i bought them the only g1/4 barbs from DD were the perfect seal, which has a THICK lip. i still think the EK barbs have a sharper lip. you can check it and see.
6. was bought to use on g1/4 threaded items with the *bonus* that it would work on my storm block, which isnt natively g1/4 threaded.

i dont think anyone ever said it was the defacto barb to put on mcw30's and 60's, but what we WOULD have been chanting is that its the defacto barb for anything g1/4.

thats my reasons for touting ek barbs anytime i can.
11-06-2006, 09:03 PM
Xion X2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senater_Cache

so the DD Hi-Flo barbs DO fit into the storm without complication? (thread size, o-ring)

Fit just fine on mine. The O-ring appeared to be sealing perfectly and it wasn't hard to thread at all. Smooth as butter.