Zerex vs Pentosin G12 vs BMW coolant as additive to Distilled water

I have a question..what do you think

5% Zerex or 5% Pentosin G11 or BMW Coolant at 5%(I have a ton of this) as additive to distilled water

Thanks

OOps G11 is blue sorry, G12 is red..I got G11 blue

First question is why do you need any of them? Are you running below freezing or aluminum or ferrous iron in your system. If all you need is a algaecide there are other alternatives you can use without sacrificing any thermal properties.

Hard to tell which of those are the lesser of the evils though. G12 simply lists 95 % glycol and 5% others on it's MSDS. Zerex contains 2 EHA which is a corrosion inhibitor but also a plasticizer ( softens plastic) I can't find a BMW antifreeze MSDS so can't say what is in it other than either polyethylene or ethyl glycol.

Bottom line though is unless you have aluminum in your system just go with a aqauarium algaecide until someone develops a additive made for the PC loop.

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Originally Posted by Hound53

First question is why do you need any of them? Are you running below freezing or aluminum or ferrous iron in your system. If all you need is a algaecide there are other alternatives you can use without sacrificing any thermal properties.

Hard to tell which of those are the lesser of the evils though. G12 simply lists 95 % glycol and 5% others on it's MSDS. Zerex contains 2 EHA which is a corrosion inhibitor but also a plasticizer ( softens plastic) I can't find a BMW antifreeze MSDS so can't say what is in it other than either polyethylene or ethyl glycol.

Bottom line though is unless you have aluminum in your system just go with a aqauarium algaecide until someone develops a additive made for the PC loop.

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Ok...I use Storm rev2, mcw60, PA160..so only copper....

I thought the Zerex racing coolant/Pentosin G12 provided some anticorrison and algaecide properties, as well as surfactant like property...


Ok..crap..I have Zerex racing coolant Pentosin G12...guess Iwill just use distilled water and an algaecide(few drops)

the Zerex does provide algaecide and surfactant properties. But our loops are so small the surfactant effect won't have much of a effect if any. I ran some numbers in another thread and unless you are using hard PCV piping it won't make a difference or very little. The only metals in a common PC water cooling that might cause a problem with corrosion is copper causing galvanic corrosion on the aluminum. Balance that with the thermal properties. For every 10% ethylene glycol in the water you lose appx 7 % in thermal properties. PEG is even worse. Zerex racing is the least of the evils I guess because it has only 25% EG, however the 2 EHA may or may not affect any plastic or rubber in the system. Ford reported some problems with gasket failure when running Dexcool which also contains the same chem. I doubt whether a 5% Zerex mix would be enough to be a problem but if you don't need it ......

How do you get the 7% drop in thermal properties? Heat capacity drops by ~4% with a 10% ethylene gylcol mix, are the other 3% from thermal conductivity and viscosity change?

Thanks Hound53..looks like I will just pick up some algaecide..
I will say my loop which has probably less than 5% Zerex in distilled water and has been running for 5mo+, the MasterKleer tubing(not water) has a very cloudy look....

Fairydust you are right the thermal capacity is 3.3% lower, thermal conductivity is 6.7 % lower, thermal differential is 3.4% lower. My apologies since the thermal differential is what really counts. I was just thinking conductivity. I think any viscosity increase at a 90/10 mix would be negligable and made up for with slippage decrease and surfacant properties.

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Originally Posted by nealh

Thanks Hound53..looks like I will just pick up some algaecide..
I will say my loop which has probably less than 5% Zerex in distilled water and has been running for 5mo+, the MasterKleer tubing(not water) has a very cloudy look....

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The cloudy look is not from the lack of properly cleaning your watercooling gear?

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Originally Posted by Helmore

The cloudy look is not from the lack of properly cleaning your watercooling gear?

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No pretty sure it has to do with staining of the tubing from Zerex...water has a pink look initially ...tubing walls are cloudy....

there is no green color, ie algae

I would expect if the water was "dirty" etc..performance on the loop would drop...higher temps(clog the Storm)

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Originally Posted by Hound53

Fairydust you are right the thermal capacity is 3.3% lower, thermal conductivity is 6.7 % lower, thermal differential is 3.4% lower. My apologies since the thermal differential is what really counts. I was just thinking conductivity. I think any viscosity increase at a 90/10 mix would be negligable and made up for with slippage decrease and surfacant properties.

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that is 10% mixture..what I have seen recommend with Zerex is a 5% mixture but I guess there really does matter for loop performance still will help not help performance..

Also I thought Zerex 5% would help the pump stay "properly lubricated"..at least better than HydrX which I tought swiftech or someone recommended

you guys are a well of info

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Originally Posted by Hound53

Fairydust you are right the thermal capacity is 3.3% lower, thermal conductivity is 6.7 % lower, thermal differential is 3.4% lower. My apologies since the thermal differential is what really counts. I was just thinking conductivity. I think any viscosity increase at a 90/10 mix would be negligable and made up for with slippage decrease and surfacant properties.

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yes, but the thermal capacity doesnt play a large role in the performance of the system when we are talking about coolant additives. the thermal conductivity is what really counts here.

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Originally Posted by Helmore

The cloudy look is not from the lack of properly cleaning your watercooling gear?

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The cloudyness is partially due to the residues in the equipment, but there is something else going on as well that no one has yet identified.

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

yes, but the thermal capacity doesnt play a large role in the performance of the system when we are talking about coolant additives. the thermal conductivity is what really counts here.

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I could be wrong but I thought it was the thermal differential. I was going by Scott Gambles article on coolant properties a few years ago over on Overclockers.com

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

The cloudyness is partially due to the residues in the equipment, but there is something else going on as well that no one has yet identified.

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The 2 EHA OATS additive which was used in Dexcool a few years ago caused gasket failures because it softened plastics. According to the Ashland site quite a few of the Zerex products still contain ethylhexanoic acids and that may well be the culprit for cloudyness in various types of tubing. Too many unknowns because of the variety of tubing being used to be sure.

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Also I thought Zerex 5% would help the pump stay "properly lubricated"..at least better than HydrX which I tought swiftech or someone recommended

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The pumps we use need no lubrication. They are designed to be lubricated purely by the water which they are pumping.

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Originally Posted by Marci

The pumps we use need no lubrication. They are designed to be lubricated purely by the water which they are pumping.

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Yeah I realize water is the lubricate.(which the reason or at least one for NEVER running the pump dry)..but my very limited knowledge recalled someone saying it helped maintain the pump as well in some way...but it is clear I need to stop saying things..damn

sorry guys...

FWIW, when I was looking for a local supplier of Pentosin, I talked to my local BMW and VW parts guys and they were both fairly confident that modern BMW and/or VW coolant is either exactly the same as G11/G12 or functionally equivalent... that is if the coolant you are buying from BMW/VW is blue, it's really the same as G11 and if it's red, its really the same as G12.

Adding 10% of either one of these anti-freeze compounds really can't hurt and will provide added lubrication and kill anything alive in the loop and in the case of G11 makes it a cool blue color.

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

The cloudyness is partially due to the residues in the equipment, but there is something else going on as well that no one has yet identified.

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The "Fog Mystery"... :D

I have seen repeated threads over time where people just ran distilled water in an all copper loop and ended up with corrosion issues. I prefer to err on the side of caution and put 10% of pentosin into the loop with a few drops of non-alcohol iodine (I dare anything to try to grow!). I tried Zerex once, but it clouded the snot out of tubing in a matter of two weeks. Using pentosin, it take a few months to cloud up. I don't know what is in the Zerex, but I do know what Pentosin does not contain silicates. I also have found that Masterkleer stays a lot clearer than Clearflex or Tygon.

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Originally Posted by voigts

I have seen repeated threads over time where people just ran distilled water in an all copper loop and ended up with corrosion issues. I prefer to err on the side of caution and put 10% of pentosin into the loop with a few drops of non-alcohol iodine (I dare anything to try to grow!). I tried Zerex once, but it clouded the snot out of tubing in a matter of two weeks. Using pentosin, it take a few months to cloud up. I don't know what is in the Zerex, but I do know what Pentosin does not contain silicates. I also have found that Masterkleer stays a lot clearer than Clearflex or Tygon.

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wouldnt the drops of non-alcohol iodine + distilled be enough to prevent growth and corrosion on a copper based loop? :confused:

pentosin looks good and all but anything that would prevent cloudy tygons would be prefered...

thanks
hoax

As far as I've been able to tell, apart from the unidentified "cloudiness" issue which plagues loops since the dawn of the community, and which is as likely to happen in pure DI loops as in heavily additive'd loops, cloudiness from additives is caused by silicate dyes depositing on the tube surface due to mircopour evaporation through the tube surface itself.

If that's what you're worried about, G12/G12+ use, AFAIK, silicate-free dye.

I think part of the problem is that pre-made additives with ethylene glycol like Hyrdyx use large amounts of silicate dyes, as well (apparently) a non-optimal type of Ethylene for waterloops (possibly because of cost issues?).

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Originally Posted by creidiki

and which is as likely to happen in pure DI loops as in heavily additive'd loops,

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I was just hopping there was some way to avoid cloudy tubes.. guess not :(

In order to avoid something u must first know the cause...

your right, I replied to a post without properly reading the entire thread.. sorry :slapass:

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Originally Posted by virtualrain

FWIW, when I was looking for a local supplier of Pentosin, I talked to my local BMW and VW parts guys and they were both fairly confident that modern BMW and/or VW coolant is either exactly the same as G11/G12 or functionally equivalent... that is if the coolant you are buying from BMW/VW is blue, it's really the same as G11 and if it's red, its really the same as G12.

Adding 10% of either one of these anti-freeze compounds really can't hurt and will provide added lubrication and kill anything alive in the loop and in the case of G11 makes it a cool blue color.

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Very good info..As I just bought coolant for my 530i ...only cost $20

So I now have all the additives I will ever need..I will need to pour into a container look and see if it is blue or red....I would prefer blue...

I put some blue pentosin from Petra but give it to another XSer to use....

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Originally Posted by creidiki

As far as I've been able to tell, apart from the unidentified "cloudiness" issue which plagues loops since the dawn of the community, and which is as likely to happen in pure DI loops as in heavily additive'd loops, cloudiness from additives is caused by silicate dyes depositing on the tube surface due to mircopour evaporation through the tube surface itself.

If that's what you're worried about, G12/G12+ use, AFAIK, silicate-free dye.

I think part of the problem is that pre-made additives with ethylene glycol like Hyrdyx use large amounts of silicate dyes, as well (apparently) a non-optimal type of Ethylene for waterloops (possibly because of cost issues?).

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The question I have however is that Pentosin does not contain any silicates. I just started using Toyota red antifreeze in my new case, and it also does not contain any silicates.

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Originally Posted by virtualrain

Adding 10% of either one of these anti-freeze compounds really can't hurt

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Have to disagree there. If you don't know what is in it you can't tell what it might do to the plastic and rubber in yopur system. The EG content alone will cut down on the thermal properites.

Also on the all copper loop corroding I have to raise the BS flag. The worst corrosion you would see in a year running a copper/plastic loop is a bronzish hue to the copper. You don't have to believe me the copper institute should know their stuff I would think

http://www.copper.org/resources/prop...ay_comments=no