News Conroe 2 Duo will be beat by AMD this year

I think AMD is striking back with the release of the Conroe 2 Duo.



I think this is just to hold off the Conroe 2 Duo until AMD release their version of the 65NM chip in 2007 Q1. I also think Intel will release Quad core towards the end of 07. So it will be interesting. intel definitly has the lead and i see intel still coming out on top.

AMD counters Intel's Conroe with dual-socket gaming platform


Wolfgang Gruener

June 1, 2006 17:58



Sunnyvale (CA) - AMD used a meeting with the press and analysts to provide some long-term information about its product strategy. Part of the roadmap is an answer to Intel's flagship processor Core 2 Extreme: AMD will launch a new platform with two sockets for two dual-core processors, handing gamers four physical cores.

In case you haven't read it at TG Daily before: 2006 will be recognized as one of the few years so far where fierce competition between AMD and Intel sparks one of the most interesting years for anyone who uses computers for more than preparing tax reports. Just yesterday, Intel demonstrated its Core 2 Extreme running at 2.93 GHz and lots of headroom for performance increases that are likely to pave the way into a whole new world of gaming and multimedia experience.


As expected, AMD has been working on an answer - and while the company does not have a new architecture, the manufacturer scales the current Athlon64 platform until the arrival of 65 nm production generation in Q4 2006 or Q1 2007. At least on the high end, the company believes that it will retain the performance crown with a system the company calls "4x4."

No, unfortunately this term does not describe four quad-core processor within one system. We are talking more about a "2x2" system - a dual-socket platform that is designed for two dual-core processors. The company did not provide a specific launch date, but mentioned that systems with four physical cores will become available during the second half of this year.

AMD justified the move not only with the increased performance that can be expected from Intel's processors, but also with firm's "roots in the enthusiast market." Product manager Brent Berry told TG Daily that "AMD saw significant success with the FX" line recently and felt that it was important that "the top end" gained performance. He did not provide exact performance or benchmark numbers, but he believes that the "dual-socket platform will be the fastest gaming platform by the end of this year."

It is unclear how capable AMD's 4x4 will be especially in the gaming segment, as increased threading still represents a challenge for many software developers. However, 4x4 is likely to have an immediate impact on computing performance as it will feature two independent DDR2 memory controllers, which, at least in theory, will double the memory bandwidth of the system.

FX-62 x 2 = $2000, and a motherboard to support it will probably be $300ish? I'm betting Clovertown and a motherboard will be a little cheaper and out perform it. Honestly, thats just speculation but the 8 way dual socket thing that intel showed at that IDF was really impressive from what little I read about it.

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Originally Posted by xombie2000

FX-62 x 2 = $2000, and a motherboard to support it will probably be $300ish? I'm betting Clovertown and a motherboard will be a little cheaper and out perform it. Honestly, thats just speculation but the 8 way dual socket thing that intel showed at that IDF was really impressive from what little I read about it.

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I think by the time this hardware comes out say 3-4 months , the FX60 will be 300-400 dollars. AMD will even out the playing field.

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Originally Posted by Unrealcpu

I think by the time this hardware comes out say 3-4 months , the FX60 will be 300-400 dollars. AMD will even out the playing field.

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May want to read this.

More news,

Looks like AMD will be back in the game in the next 6 months






AMD's K8L die-shot and main points

AMD's K8L cache design

Four 16-bit or Eight 8-bit HyperTransport Links
K8L details continue to pour in at AMD's Technology Analyst Day

During the AMD Technology Analyst Day, AMD’s CTO Phil Hester rehashed the majority of the K8L information we discussed on DailyTech several days ago, but disclosed further details on specifics. Hester was very specific to refer to these new technologies as simply “new architecture,” and never using the K8L core name.

A major push for AMD’s K8L design is in “modular” component design – meaning everything from L3 cache to memory controllers are developed as individual components and linked together with reusable, robust designs. To some extent, processor design is already modular with libraries and designs that are developed individually. However, Hester insists this new modular approach takes this modular approach even further, claiming that the company is developing “better define the interfaces for each of these building blocks.”

Additionally, Hester revealed some more information about the cache specifics on K8L. Each K8L core will have 64KB of dedicated L1 cache, followed by 512KB of dedicated L2 cache. The base models of K8L will have 2MB of shared L3 cache, but Hester also went on to claim that adding more L3 cache was in the company’s roadmap. One thing AMD representatives have not particuarly touched on is the cache reduction from 64+64KB (data+instruction) to 32+32KB. AMD employees have assured us this move is logical with the addition of L3 cache.

A major feature of K8L is DICE, or Dynamic Independent Core Engagement. Essentially, the ACPI layer will have the ability to dynamically adjust individual cores and crossbars on the processor. Each processor core will have the ability to enter its own power-state, or p-state, allowing a K8L processor the ability to conserve power when the system does not have enough threads to utilize the other processor cores. Intel’s Core processors have the ability to enter c-states on a per-core basis, but the AMD demonstration showed a quad-core K8L processor dip individual cores into full halt.

Opteron servers right now are, for the most part, limited to PCs with eight sockets or less. Part of this is due to the fact that each processor has only three HyperTransport links. Hester announced that the next generation Opteron core will have four 16-bit HyperTransport-3 links running at 2.6GHz each. These four links can reconfigure into eight 8-bit HyperTransport links in a process called “un-ganging,” which is a fundamental feature of HyperTransport-3. Essentially, one could have an eight-socket server with thirty-two fully connected cores. Each processor will be able to take advantage of any of the eight memory banks within one memory hop. The HyperTransport-3 specification claims un-ganging mode can work on the fly, meaning that even a fully connected eight-socket server could dynamically change two 8-bit links into a single 16-bit link during operation to increase I/O at critical moments.

K8L is designed as a native quad-core design, although slides from the Technology Analyst Day also revealed that a dual-core desktop SKU will appear in mid-2007. So far, DailyTech has touched a little bit on the 65nm quad-core code names announced in AMD roadmaps, but to our knowledge the code names for dual-core K8L processors have not been disclosed.




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After Conroe AMD will have to deal with Kentfield.

Like another said I'd rather a 300+usd Conroe than a 1k chip that still gets its arse beat. When AMD puts out a chip in the 300-500usd price range that beats Conroe stock and when they are both overclocked I'll consider it.

Wow, that was unexpected.

http://www.amdzone.com/pics/cpus/4x4/4x4.JPG



based off of that, you would still need multiple processors.. A tad bit expensive, no?

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Originally Posted by xombie2000

May want to read this.

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So it takes intel to convert their whole lineup to 65nm to beat AMD 90nm ?
Seems to me once AMD converts to 65nm and mobos are like 130 bucks and with a integrated memory controler the performance crown will be back in AMDs favor. :)

For me though i will be going with the 2 core duo until this happens. Then switch back to the 65m integrated memory controller

seems to me in that artical AMD will indeed counter the 2 core duo in the next 4-6 months.

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Originally Posted by Unrealcpu

I think by the time this hardware comes out say 3-4 months , the FX60 will be 300-400 dollars. AMD will even out the playing field.

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They will be in the red if they go this route.

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Originally Posted by malficar

After Conroe AMD will have to deal with Kentfield.

Like another said I'd rather a 300+usd Conroe than a 1k chip that still gets its arse beat. When AMD puts out a chip in the 300-500usd price range that beats Conroe stock and when they are both overclocked I'll consider it.

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Im sure intel will make a move to quad core and so will AMD. The K8L is designed for quad core but will start out with 2 cores. Intel will definitly take back alittle market share the next 4-6 months but after that you will see AMD striking back with the K8L and taking the performance crown. I just hope the integrated memory controller can with stand -60c on the K8L

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Originally Posted by Unrealcpu

So it takes intel to convert their whole lineup to 65nm to beat AMD 90nm ?
Seems to me once AMD converts to 65nm and mobos are like 130 bucks and with a integrated memory controler the performance crown will be back in AMDs favor. :)

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No because if you'll recall, P4 was 65nm and it was a flop. What it took was a full redesign.

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Originally Posted by Unrealcpu

For me though i will be going with the 2 core duo until this happens. Then switch back to the 65m integrated memory controller

seems to me in that artical AMD will indeed counter the 2 core duo in the next 4-6 months.

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Not me, I'm an every 18-24 months type of guy for PC upgrades, cheers.

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Originally Posted by Unrealcpu

Im sure intel will make a move to quad core...

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Yes in January, if the roadmap holds true.

Seriously, AMD needs 2 cpu's to compete with Intel and one cpu?
Seems like AMD got not so much to come up with. I would love to see 2xE6800 vs 2xFX-62, and how did AMD Fanboys say earlier, you can't compare Conroe to AM2 and other A64 because it's not next gen cpu. How can we compare 2 cpu's against one now? :)

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Originally Posted by NiCKE^

Seriously, AMD needs 2 cpu's to compete with Intel and one cpu?
Seems like AMD got not so much to come up with. I would love to see 2xE6800 vs 2xFX-62, and how did AMD Fanboys say earlier, you can't compare Conroe to AM2 and other A64 because it's not next gen cpu. How can we compare 2 cpu's against one now? :)

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This is this same thing you will hear over and over, what is fair is to compare whatever current technology you have to each other because the average consumer will not care if their CPU is 90nm or 65nm. What they will care about is paying $700 more for a processor that performs roughtly the same or perhaps worse.

I think we will see how 300$ E6600 overclocked to 4GHz will beat super-duper 10 kilobuks AMD system in most benchmarks :D. I think that even 4 AMD cores will not help mutch against 4GHz Conroe.

Dual socket dual core is a desperate measure that won't amount to anything for gaming. Few games use 2 threads, how many games need 4? What a waste, exactly what a gamer needs to spend his money on, ANOTHER CPU. Get a decent processor, an X1800XT/7900GT, 2gb of ram, and enjoy the damn games.

Also considering both parties will be releasing quad cores early on 07, not late in 07, this dual CPU socket seems even more superfluous.

Core 2 Duo will dominate the rest of this year, it's 07 that's the real battle ground.

This 4x4 thing is garbage, unless you are looking for a cheap server. 2 x X2 3800+ CPUs gives 4 cores on an ATX (?) board with regular RAM, which is cool.

A die shrink will not save AMD. Conroe has upwards of 30% lead at the same clockspeed. Look at Conroes already doing 3.8 GHz on air. 3.8 GHz * 1.3 = 5 GHz K8 to catch up.

There is no way an AM2 CPU (even 65nm) on any cooling can catch Conroe on water. Anybody care to argue?

I think we will have K8L ES 3-4 months before its official release date. Then we decide what to do, buy conroe or w8 K8L ;)

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Originally Posted by IvanAndreevich

This 4x4 thing is garbage, unless you are looking for a cheap server. 2 x X2 3800+ CPUs gives 4 cores on an ATX (?) board with regular RAM, which is cool.

A die shrink will not save AMD. Conroe has upwards of 30% lead at the same clockspeed. Look at Conroes already doing 3.8 GHz on air. 3.8 GHz * 1.3 = 5 GHz K8 to catch up.

There is no way an AM2 CPU (even 65nm) on any cooling can catch Conroe on water. Anybody care to argue?

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You are crazy that you think a die shrink will not save AMD. The K8L will be like a differnet design as well ,like the 2 Core duo. That will be the even match. AMD will take the lead with its On die memory contoller once again with 65nm tech. You are compareing AMDs 90nm to intels redesign 65nm chip.

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Originally Posted by BlackX

I think we will have K8L ES 3-4 months before its official release date. Then we decide what to do, buy conroe or w8 K8L ;)

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Yeah then you see will OPPAINTER on FIRE with a grin on his face ,taking back the performance crown on XS with the K8L
:D

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Originally Posted by kl0012

I think we will see how 300$ E6600 overclocked to 4GHz will beat super-duper 10 kilobuks AMD system in most benchmarks :D. I think that even 4 AMD cores will not help mutch against 4GHz Conroe.

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duh i have 285opteron system give me a link to any conroe at the moment that outperforms my cpu score in 3dmark06 = 3560

as far as i have seen here on xs the fastest one was a conroe @3,5ghz 3168

and yes AMD must cut prices, but why cut prices now as long as there is no compatitor in store

if some say AMD will ge down under.... same for intel, you think they will make a lot of proffit with such a cut price and looking at die size of conroe with the cache...

x2 is cheaper to produce on same nm level

Looks like K8L has reduced L1 and L2 cache but has L3 cache to compensate. Will this make it faster for desktop ( rather than server where L3 seems to be used quite a lot by Intel in recent years ) ?

Regards

Andy

Hmm looks like a conroe killer

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Originally Posted by duploxxx

duh i have 285opteron system give me a link to any conroe at the moment that outperforms my cpu score in 3dmark06 = 3560

as far as i have seen here on xs the fastest one was a conroe @3,5ghz 3168

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Greate. As I said, Conroe needs just 4GHz to beat your setup. :p:

i dont like amd's aproach of multi socket for desktop pcs.

how many people will buy a top of the line cpu? few then think about 2x

i think it just takes the fun of overclocking