Effective Immediately!!

Important changes to For Sale / Classfieds - effective Monday, Sep 12th, 2005!

There are new requirements and guidelines that have been introduced, which come into life on Monday, Sep 12th 2005. Full and updated text can be found in Classifieds Rules & Guidelines. Below you can find outlined new changes that have been made:

1. Heatware account is now very strongly recommended by XtremeSystems Forums Staff.
This now becomes a very strong suggestion that's being made not only for the Seller but a Buyer, too. If one doesn't have an active Heatware account, please sign-up here before starting a new thread or making an offer to the Seller. If there's no trading history on that account yet, Ebay feedback is another option. It's up to the Seller to verify Buyer's credentials before closing a transaction.

2. Only The Seller is allowed to create posts in For Sale sections.
Ability to create posts in For Sale threads has been limited to the Seller only. Other members, including potential buyers are no longer able to post in For Sale threads. This means that any offers, price and shipping negotiations or other inquiries by interested parties are to be made through PM or e-mail only! If the Seller has been asked a question about features that have not covered in his initial post, he may update his thread with another post containing this new information.

3. The Seller is allowed to bump his own thread if neccesary.
We allow the Seller to bump his own thread in a reasonable manner. Bumping every 1 hour or so is absolutely not allowed! Common practice would be once in 6-8 hours at the most.

4. The Seller is obligated to inform potential buyers in case item is not available anymore.
This is to be done by creating a "closing post", whether item is sold or otherwise unavailable anymore.

5. Threads that have not been updated for more that 7 days will be removed.
It's in Seller's own interest to check up on his PMs and update his thread accordingly. If for any reason, the Seller's last post in his thread is older than 7 days, it will be assumed that transaction is closed and thread will be automatically removed.

One question - sometimes buyers ask questions which are simply ignored by the seller. This gives other potential buyers and idea to how responsive a seller may be as well as important information regarding the condition of the item that's for sale. Also, it helps other buyers if they hadn't originally thought of asking that particular question themselves. If potential buyers aren't allowed to post, then it most definately won't help these forums if the sellers are allowed to pick and choose what information they'd like to be public. Just my :2cents:

Yeah thats one of the main reasons I prefer selling here over anandtech and eocf.

Anyone that has a concern about an item listed or lack of response from a seller is welcome to PM a mod with that concern. If something needs to be disclosed about an item and the seller will not disclose it then the thread will be removed or I will post it myself ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Major

Anyone that has a concern about an item listed or lack of response from a seller is welcome to PM a mod with that concern. If something needs to be disclosed about an item and the seller will not disclose it then the thread will be removed or I will post it myself ;)

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:toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazoo

Important changes to For Sale / Classfieds - effective Monday, Sep 12th, 2005!

There are new requirements and guidelines that have been introduced, which come into life on Monday, Sep 12th 2005. Full and updated text can be found in Classifieds Rules & Guidelines. Below you can find outlined new changes that have been made:

1. Heatware account is now very strongly recommended by XtremeSystems Forums Staff.
This now becomes a very strong suggestion that's being made not only for the Seller but a Buyer, too. If one doesn't have an active Heatware account, please sign-up here before starting a new thread or making an offer to the Seller. If there's no trading history on that account yet, Ebay feedback is another option. It's up to the Seller to verify Buyer's credentials before closing a transaction.

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I like these new rules or w/e you call them.... ;)

See I've never used heat, but I beleive i'm well known enough and enough of the mods here know were i live that its clear I'm not a troll. I'm also always fine with seconding first and stuff...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Major

Anyone that has a concern about an item listed or lack of response from a seller is welcome to PM a mod with that concern. If something needs to be disclosed about an item and the seller will not disclose it then the thread will be removed or I will post it myself ;)

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See, the problem with that is the buyer who PM's a mod has to have enough concern that he'd have to go to those lengths. Also, the mods would have to be Xtremely active to keep up with every item posted. I'm curious though, what's the reason for all these new rules?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

See, the problem with that is the buyer who PM's a mod has to have enough concern that he'd have to go to those lengths. Also, the mods would have to be Xtremely active to keep up with every item posted. I'm curious though, what's the reason for all these new rules?

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There are several reasons for the changes, for one thing there are way too many people using the for sale section for chatting and thread craping. This takes up a lot of the mods time just trying to clean up the threads and responding to complaints. Also with the Heatware being a strong suggestion we are trying to make it safer for all parties in a transaction. And finally, many people don't update there threads with the status of the items, with the 7 day rule we hope to eliminate threads that no longer have items for sale.

Give it a chance guys, we have discussed it at length and feel the changes are positive and will enhance the section.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Major

There are several reasons for the changes, for one thing there are way too many people using the for sale section for chatting and thread craping. This takes up a lot of the mods time just trying to clean up the threads and responding to complaints. Also with the Heatware being a strong suggestion we are trying to make it safer for all parties in a transaction. And finally, many people don't update there threads with the status of the items, with the 7 day rule we hope to eliminate threads that no longer have items for sale.

Give it a chance guys, we have discussed it at length and feel the changes are positive and will enhance the section.

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Now I'm not exactly innocent of making OT conversation in F/S threads, but IMO, they were either harmless or in fun but thread crapping is a totally 'nother subject. I understand that you'd like to keep the threads concise and easy-to-read, but in all honesty, much of the information that buyers gather about an item that is for sale, is from public questions. Personally, I don't mind too much having to browse through a thread to see pertinant information, and I imagine that most others feel the same way. Here's another question: What happens when buyer replies first, saying that he'll purchase the item, only to have the seller sell it to someone who came in later who was either a "friend" or offers more money? How would we know about that? Are the mod's monitoring the PM's associated with the F/S section? I'm not saying what you guys have decided is exactly a bad thing, but I definately can think of how this may cause problems for many whom frequent this f/s forum. After all, everything's worth a try...... :)

No one is reading PMs except the intended recipients.

I dont like the idea of not being able to post in FS threads but if its hard for you guys to keep up with it now then it'll prob get worse as s7e9h3n said you guys will be getting more PM's to force info.

If OT posts in FS threads are really getting out of hand then hand out temp bans from the FS section. Just my 2 cents.:)

I think it would be a good idea for a seller to have admin priveleges over his/her FS thread so that they can delete any posts they feel are OT/thread crapping. I think this would help ease the work of the mods and also please the sellers. As a safety precaution you could make the posts still visible to mods so that they can undelete any posts they feel shouldn't have been deleted.

Oooohh thats a good idea man.

Good thoughts all, but as Major pointed out, we talked about this for a while, let's give it a try. I buy stuff outta there myself so I want this to work too...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HiJon89

I think it would be a good idea for a seller to have admin priveleges over his/her FS thread so that they can delete any posts they feel are OT/thread crapping. I think this would help ease the work of the mods and also please the sellers. As a safety precaution you could make the posts still visible to mods so that they can undelete any posts they feel shouldn't have been deleted.

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:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Ugly n Grey

Good thoughts all, but as Major pointed out, we talked about this for a while, let's give it a try. I buy stuff outta there myself so I want this to work too...

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But shouldn't the sellers/buyers have a say in this? I understand that the admins have needs too, but I'm still left a little wondering about why these rules are being implemented yet I haven't seen anything noticebly problematic.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

:thumbsup:


But shouldn't the sellers/buyers have a say in this? I understand that the admins have needs too, but I'm still left a little wondering about why these rules are being implemented yet I haven't seen anything noticebly problematic.....

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The only reason you have not seen seeing anything is because we have been deleting the posts of people thread craping and chatting in the section and trying to keep the forum clean of such posts.

The members have a say and we are open to suggestions but we need to implement this change and see how things go. ;)

With respect to the mods I strongly disagree with this new rule that only the original poster can make posts in a FS thread.

The last forum that went to these rules effectively killed it as a marketplace to buy/trade. Extremeoverclockers once had a great trading forum, now its practically dead, because of this same rule.

A better way in my opinion to police the forum is to have a rule that thread crapping is an automatic 3 day ban. This works well over at [H] Forums. I see nothing wrong with chatting in a FS thread myself so long as it is on topic.

Finally - it protects the forum buyers when there is a troll or even potential troll. This works on several levels. A known troll can be called out, or a troll will have a greater difficulty "selling" the same item to multiple people.

Just my thoughts - based on my trading history and experience.

Heat under MUCHO :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

Here's another question: What happens when buyer replies first, saying that he'll purchase the item, only to have the seller sell it to someone who came in later who was either a "friend" or offers more money? How would we know about that?

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Actually, although some may think that "dibs" placed in thread or "I was first PMing..." means everything, it does not. It is still up to the seller to actually pick whatever offer he feels is more beneficial to him. Some may hate it, but that's how it is. You can't force the seller to honor that and it's totally up to him who he decided to sell the item. Plain and simple. You haven't known that before, when posting in threads was allowed, and you will not be able to know that now. Nothing really changes as you have not had a 100% guarantee about what actually seller told you about who was first...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

One question - sometimes buyers ask questions which are simply ignored by the seller. This gives other potential buyers and idea to how responsive a seller may be as well as important information regarding the condition of the item that's for sale. Also, it helps other buyers if they hadn't originally thought of asking that particular question themselves. If potential buyers aren't allowed to post, then it most definately won't help these forums if the sellers are allowed to pick and choose what information they'd like to be public. Just my :2cents:

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New rules will stress importance of paying very close attention to purchase decision. If person is really interested and knows what is looking for then PM is to find information he needs. If he doesn't like what he hears then he doesn't buy it... Seller then can put this information in the thread to make everyone aware. If he decides not to, then it's not really a problem yet. Someone else will PM him with same question and back out after the answer, so maybe then seller will figure out that he needs to disclose some more information.
We will still be monitoring threads, watching what seller posts there and waiting for PMs with some VERY (I mean VERY) strong concerns. That doesn't mean that members are feel to PM mods about every item for sale because they feel that somethiong may be wrong. Only VERY strong doubts will be addressed.

We needed to unload some work of For Sale and make it a bit more self-running. That way we will be able to concentrate on other areas, that will often need a lot more of moderator's attention.

what about doing is democratically, rather than paternalistic, and do a vote?

I didn't think there was necessarily a problem with the old system. I guess if this is better I won't complain though, but I've always liked the idea about gauging buyer interest before making an offer. It helps to get an idea what the going price is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shuRe

what about doing is democratically, rather than paternalistic, and do a vote?

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Not everything has to be up for democratic vote :D Sometimes, decissions need to be made within Staff members only. We needed to make changes somewhere so we could concentrate our efforts in more sensitive areas. In the eyes of the Staff, For Sale needed to be reformed, therefore decission was made to go ahead with new Rules.
I hope you guys understand. I don't think it's gonna make anyone's life harder. We wouldn't try to make your stay on XS painful. I bet, this is gonna work and make moderating Forums more streamlined as before.

:toast:

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Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

Not everything has to be up for democratic vote :D Sometimes, decissions need to be made within Staff members only. We needed to make changes somewhere so we could concentrate our efforts in more sensitive areas. In the eyes of the Staff, For Sale needed to be reformed, therefore decission was made to go ahead with new Rules.
I hope you guys understand. I don't think it's gonna make anyone's life harder. We wouldn't try to make your stay on XS painful. I bet, this is gonna work and make moderating Forums more streamlined as before.

:toast:

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Its not my forum - if the staff members want to effectively kill this area then they should just kill it. Adopting these new rules is just a slow painful death anyways.

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Originally Posted by MUCHO

Adopting these new rules is just a slow painful death anyways.

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Why do you think so? I do not share that impression at all. Can you elaborate more than what you said few posts above, please?
Also, you need to understand that we do not really have and never had as much traffic in For Sale section as on e.g. [H], looking at number of threads. Also, some items are a lot more difficult to sell here than anywhere else and some will sell here quicker than anywhere else. It will be OK and i don't think it will be a disaster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MUCHO

With respect to the mods I strongly disagree with this new rule that only the original poster can make posts in a FS thread.

The last forum that went to these rules effectively killed it as a marketplace to buy/trade. Extremeoverclockers once had a great trading forum, now its practically dead, because of this same rule.

A better way in my opinion to police the forum is to have a rule that thread crapping is an automatic 3 day ban. This works well over at [H] Forums. I see nothing wrong with chatting in a FS thread myself so long as it is on topic.

Finally - it protects the forum buyers when there is a troll or even potential troll. This works on several levels. A known troll can be called out, or a troll will have a greater difficulty "selling" the same item to multiple people.

Just my thoughts - based on my trading history and experience.

Heat under MUCHO :D

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Well 60 heat refs doesn't get you much for "experience", lol. I don't see anything wrong with this new rule, it's certainly worth trying. As to what works well over at [H]..... you have to be kidding, that's one of the worst fs forums for thread crapping and trolling there is. The only thing I would do differently is to make a link to your heatware mandatory for all sellers.

Just my thoughts - based on my trading experience... Heat under boshuter ;)

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Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

Why do you think so? I do not share that impression at all. Can you elaborate more than what you said few posts above, please?

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The reason it will kill the area is pretty simple – but unless you understand the mentality of people you may not believe it. Buyers many times are on the fence. Buy – don’t buy – buy – don’t buy. They go back and forth in their head. It is often the commentary of the fellow forum members that will push them over the edge into “buy”. Questions, comments, someone vouching for the seller ect. The opposite is true – less positive commentary or even questions answered will help people stay in the “don’t buy” category. Sellers will find it an ineffective place to sell – and over a period of time less and less will bother posting FS items here, effectively killing the marketplace.

Extremeoverclockers is a perfect example. They too found it too difficult to police the FS section, and adopted the same rules. In a few months, it was effectively a dead marketplace. Before the rule change, it was a thriving marketplace – much more activity than this forum. Bottom line its impossible to sell anything there – so why bother?

I personally would be happy to volunteer to moderate this section if you need someone to help with the workload.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boshuter

Well 60 heat refs doesn't get you much for "experience", lol. I don't see anything wrong with this new rule, it's certainly worth trying. As to what works well over at [H]..... you have to be kidding, that's one of the worst fs forums for thread crapping and trolling there is. The only thing I would do differently is to make a link to your heatware mandatory for all sellers.

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I brought up [H] Forum because they were having difficulty policing the thread crapping. (Bear in mind they have no 100 post rule) About a month ago they adopted a zero tolerance rule, banning for 3 days on the first offence. There has been a 100% change in the amount of threadcrapping. I see that as the perfect solution if this forum is taking up too much time.

Also - I didn't list my 60 heat ref to say - oooh look at my amazing heat reccord. I only used it as a point of reference to point out I have a small idea of what I'm talking about. When you add in my 30+ Ebay and the 30-40 positive transactions that never got feedback you start to see I have bigger idea what I'm talking about. Add in the real world experience - I have been in sales for over 10 years. If there were heatware for my successful transactions for happy customers it would be in the thousands. Currently I manage a retail operation with monthly revenue of over 5 million dealing with with 200+ transactions a month. So you tell me - do I get much credit for "experience"?

Bottom line is - this is going to effectively kill xtremesystems as a marketplace, just as it was gaining momentum.

You heard it here first.

MUCHO I respect your oppinons and appreciate your input ;)

We felt it was time for some changes and are going to give this a try.These changes effectively will make the For Sale section more like a traditional newspaper classified type ad. But nothing is set in concrete and IMO changes to the policy will be made as needed. After a few weeks we will have a better idea of how well this is going to work and a better idea of what may need to be fixed if anything. For now lets move on and test the new policies that have been implemented and see how things go.

People (potential buyers) are still posting in threads... are you guys going to start warning/banning people if they continue posting in threads?

Maybe I don't understand the rules... :confused:

Once the new guidelines go into effect no one will be able to post in a thread unless they start it, even if they try they wont be able to.

Site is becomming very big.... I guess it comes way harder to monitor all threads now vs when site still had 4k members... Don't only think of the members direct benefits and conflicts with these new rules, moderators should get more free time to monitor other "messy" sections :).... After all, this is a service, not a right :).

are a breath of fresh air. :clap:

:toast: to whoever came up with them.

I wasn't sure about not letting people reply publically to your for sale listing... but anything that someone asks via PM can be replied to publically if need be. Makes crapping a thing of the past and let's people sell to the best of their own ability.

Again, :up:!

Positive feedback...bachus will pee himself :)

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Originally Posted by Ugly n Grey

Positive feedback...bachus will pee himself :)

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rofl, they are good rules....ensures that no one will ripp you off :slapass:

Yea, well I'm bored now !! :D

I used to receive on average 50-70 post notifications a day in the Classified section that I had to wade through to see who was crapping on who's thread. Now I'm only getting 5-10, and guess what ? none of them are crapping on their own threads ! lol who would have thunk it ?

I think its going to work very well :toast:

if i ever get enough post to see the for sale thread im sure its alot better now. so far still

Quick, Major is bored, everyone PM him with a complaint :)

This should be good.

Seriously, it was designed to make sales easier, less wading on the multiple item threads too ! :toast:

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Originally Posted by iS.Terminator

rofl, they are good rules....ensures that no one will ripp you off :slapass:

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That's a dangerous statement to make. There's no way to ensure that no one will rip you off, short of not trading at all. But there are ways to try and minimize the risk (such as investigating a user's history through heatware), and we of course want to promote these.

major, now I need to go tell ppl to start PM'ing you with long complicated complaints with poorly written PM's in which you must take 20 minutes to decipher... muahahah

:lol: @Maxxx

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Originally Posted by Major

Yea, well I'm bored now !! :D

guess what ? none of them are crapping on their own threads !

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LOL :clap:

i cant reply to threads in forsale? man this kinda sucks really. how about just locking people out of the classifieds who thread crap instead?

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Originally Posted by rhino56

i cant reply to threads in forsale? man this kinda sucks really. how about just locking people out of the classifieds who thread crap instead?

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nope, no more in-thread replies... too much nonsense posts so we changed it. but it's looking pretty good so far and it seems transactions go through as well as they used to :)

I wish people could respond to my threads. Is there some script that can watch posted threads for a particular flag in the topic and it will allow people to post in it?

One of the reasons I like forums is because people can correct any errors I make for me. If people can't post in my for sale threads I fear one time I will inevitably post a mistake and someone might buy the item based on that and be dissatisfied.

Also, I want people to argue over my prices so I can know they are happy with the price they are paying.

yeah i wish you could post in threads....is there any way we could change that rule back if we had a poll?

Major and myself are monitoring activity in For Sale section and we are trying to observe any trends there. If we notice that new rules change the way members trade (less threads or less succesful transactions) then we will sit down with the rest of the staff and think about it.
But like I said, so far it's been about 2 weeks since new rules went live and we have not experienced any drastic changes. So, it looks like it's all good.

I think its good. Now, we wont get people just writing like "wow sweet setup" or "wow, good prices". Makes it alot easier then before.

I am definitely against the new rules. I didn't notice that thread crapping was as rampant as was made out to be. I find myself not browsing the For Sale section as much anymore since the comments always helped me put in perspective whether a product was worthwhile or not (gave me that last push one way or the other).

I think a zero tolerance policy to thread crapping would've been a better rule. Its kinda like having free will. If we have free will and make a bad choice, you punish us, but without free will we don't have the opportunity to make the right choices. Oh well... it seems I'm a lone voice. :shakes: :shrug:

On a related but side note, there have been some minor violations of rules that I've noticed but since I can't post on threads and I don't feel as comfortable about pushing the big red (Report Bad Post) button... I haven't done anything about it.

Example: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=75024

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- The payment by Paypal (Fees of 3.5%).

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Violates Rule #13

I still think my idea would work better:

"I think it would be a good idea for a seller to have admin priveleges over his/her FS thread so that they can delete any posts they feel are OT/thread crapping. I think this would help ease the work of the mods and also please the sellers. As a safety precaution you could make the posts still visible to mods so that they can undelete any posts they feel shouldn't have been deleted."

just make the rules clear, on ocf they seem to have a handle on it and it works well.
no thread crapping no posting in a thread unless you plan on buying or sending an offer.
imho i think you are killing the classifieds here, the interaction within threads is key to making a deal and having it in the public eye for safety.
if anything you have just opened the door for people to get scammed and the offense wont be known because its all in private messages.

instead of trying to put limits on everything we do give us the freedom to edit our own posts and let their be punishment for breaking the rules.

thread crap someones thread- 30 days off from the classifieds
you just need some good rules in place with a preset sentence for breaking the rule.

i dont sell at all on extremeoverclocking.com because thats how their classifieds are, as a matter of fact i cant even remember the last time i posted there.
the classifieds here are a big part of many of the regulars here i think, this will probably affect the # of visits to this forum from the # of people.

i am always bragging to people about the classifieds here and how you get great deals, 90% of the people selling and buying here dont thread crap.
if the mods cant handle 10% then its saying they arent interested enough to and dont want to be bothered with it.

let us edit our posts.
make rules that unless you have been evacuated threads must be updated within 48 hours a question is asked in them or they get deleted.

any member that doesnt comply to the rules will be banished not by a mods judgement but by what is clearly stated as the punishment for an infraction.

so i really feel that this is a big mistake and it hurts the members buying and selling.


EDIT:there i had to edit this for spelling to make it readable.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=74749

There's a good example of someone helping me when I wasn't thinking right. For some reason I added an extra zero to my math somewhere and zabomb noticed it and I was able to fix it so other people wouldn't be thrown off.

im rarely in the FS section also as i cant get comments from other users

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HiJon89

I still think my idea would work better:

"I think it would be a good idea for a seller to have admin priveleges over his/her FS thread so that they can delete any posts they feel are OT/thread crapping. I think this would help ease the work of the mods and also please the sellers. As a safety precaution you could make the posts still visible to mods so that they can undelete any posts they feel shouldn't have been deleted."

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This is not possible for several reasons.

moved to the forum comments section so members can post their feedback again :)

Only thing I'm seeing now is a lot more threads without pictures. :(

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

Only thing I'm seeing now is a lot more threads without pictures. :(

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Yah, I noticed that as well... before, we were our own "moderators" so to speak. We would help out by pointing out if rules were violated, but now its kinda up to the mods to notice which is good and bad.

Oh well... it seems that the mods have made a decision on this until its reevaluated, but let's keep pushing for the rules to be put back to the way they were! :up:

hmmm good point, when buyers could post there was more feedback on the threads for the sellers wich made them post all the infos in case something was missing...

the peroblem is that modding the classies was a lot of work before and this is supposed to reduce the work. whether it works or not i cant tell, i will ask the classies mods about their opinion. if it isnt really saving them a lot of work id also like to change things in the classies to the way they were before.

Lately I've been seeing some posts by mods criticizing people for bumping their threads. The rules clearly state that people are allowed to bump their threads every 6-8 hours:

"9) The Seller is allowed to bump his own thread if neccesary.
We allow the Seller to bump his own thread in a reasonable manner. Bumping every 1 hour or so is absolutely not allowed! Common practice would be once in 6-8 hours at the most."

In this thread:
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77697
Entity_Razer accuses ZX7891 of "spamming" when for the most part he leaves over 8 hours between bumps.

In this thread:
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/show...140&highlight=
JAWS tells A Scream to stop bumping his thread even though his bumps are usually 2 days apart. He says that such posts are a "total waste of space" (I'm sure the 50KB those posts occupy is extremely precious :rolleyes: )

Why is this a growing phenomenon? Are people no longer allowed to follow the Classified Forum rules without being badgered by mods who have nothering better to do?

well, I think most of the time it looks like spamming, because the OP is the only one that can post in their thread, so it starts to look tedious after a few posts of "Bump" and "ttt", or maybe that's just me. I saw in ZX7891's thread that he had a bunch of posts pretty close to one another, but it was clarifying things, since he couldn't edit his posts. But you are right, I'm not sure why people are saying to keep it to every few days for a bump. Maybe because the Classifieds seem less active than they were before, with only OPs being able to post.

I don't know but...



BUMP :)






(Disclaimer: This was an attempt to be funny because I'm feeling giddy after ordering an X1800XT. Please don't ban me.)

I dont like it now you cant post in the classifieds.

I guess the mods need to keep a better eye on post times.

We are assessing the effect of the changing rule now. Please bear with us for a bit longer while the site owners make their decision.

I said so because the guys in question bumped it up a lot of times and as I said, give everyone a go. If someone wants to sell something , they'll check, I mean i didn't bump my WTB 36GB Raptor thread up, and I still got my desired piece so just relax and a buyer will fidn you.

10 bumps with 1 sentence TOPS is hardly what I call a justified bump

Kazoo....fwiw, as a seller and buyer, I'd prefer if other people couldn't post. Everything that needs to be done can be through PM and the seller can clarify things in later posts.

And while a bump may seem to help (heck, I do it), doing it excessively (to the point where most posts have no value add other than ttt) isn't. If it isn't selling, either lower the price or clarify a few things in your posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazoo

We are assessing the effect of the changing rule now. Please bear with us for a bit longer while the site owners make their decision.

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Great to hear. There wasn't much thread crapping here and I know I go in there less (seems boring). Veteran Members were even quasi-modding ("please post pics", "keep pricing to PMs"). While sometimes thats no good, I think we all know what it's like to be crapped on from OTHER forums! I bought my prommie form hearing a lot of others nudging me indirectly ("Wish I had the funds" posts). Ok, I'll shut up now.

Hej, as many of you perhaps have noticed, only mods and thread starters are now allowed to post in the FS forum.

This I have nothing against, a mod should be allowed to post if something is wrong with the auction to notify the potential buyers, and notify the seller through PM - this is a good idea as all posts in the thread should theorectically revolve around the item being sold.

However that is not so. Many threads are bumped until all eternity with no obvious interest. That is rather irratating, but bearable. What I find offensive is that mods [i]abuse[/b] their privileges and continue to post as they always did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Perkam

Dibs on 1GB Gskill GH UTT

Perkam

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by DDTUNG

Hi would you be willing to ship to Hong Kong by USPS if I pay the additional shipping?

Thanks.

DDTUNG

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Seriously, WTF is all this about. If we the users are not allowed to post, why are the actions of the mods tolerated. I see the idea of mods having certain privileges, however this is in my opinion unnacceptable. If changes have been made, then everything should follow the new rules.

My thoughts.

Thatr for sure, I TOTALLY agree.... Such posts are total abuse.... AND, not only abusing, but dealing in the thread which is even opposite to a older rule....

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then everything should follow the new rules.

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"Everyone"

Sorry for the bad spelling and occasionally lousy grammar.

Just beside the quote button, you have the edit button to edit your own posts :).... You can click on it to change your misspell

I didn't want to edit my post, I consider it "raw" emotion :D

I don't feel Victors(DDTUNG) is such a bad question or not of use to the community/seller.

XS is not only made up of USA people. I mean such a question could be good for the sale of the item so such posts I do not find wrong imho.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

I don't blame you on perkam's post because that is violation the rules so he to should follow the rules I feel but Victors(DDTUNG) is not a bad question I feel.

XS is not only made up of USA people. I mean such a question could be good for the sale of the item so such posts I do not find wrong imho.....

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However if "normal" users are forced to PM, then Mods should do so too, unless we wish to have a victorian hierarchy where Fugger Chilly Kazoo are kings, mods aristocrats, XIPs middleclass an the remainders the proletariat.

Scary when I see some action lately that reflects this.

please don't go all melodramatic on me saying the mods and fugger/kazoo/chilly are the warlords opression the people.....


I mean it is not as bad as you discribe.

BTW do not try and put this on the moderators , the prole..... ;) normal users where stripped of their postingpower of what kept happening there.

The fact that you lost your power to post there is not the moderators or admins's fault but only your own. Kazoo changed the rules for a good reason. Things where happening that where turning the for sale into the speak freely.

again, I admit they should just PM'd like everyone else, but all the dust being kicked up for this is redicules I feel.

If you got a problem PM kazoo or Fugger, they will help you out. Making a scene is not going to help anyone. So got problems with the current rules? PM Kazoo

I still don't understand - when there is a question about the way someone is behaving, regardless of who they are - why you don't PM them. I could start posting topics discussing other folks indescretions , I'm sure they would not appreciate that.

I find the notion of a class system on XS amusing. May I apply for court jester?

People who carry out functions on XS just happen to be users of XS as well. They are open to conversation, questioning and are merely human like all the community (well I think there may be a few aliens among the community.. not that I'm naming any names runmc...if that really is your name DA DA DAAAAAH).

Anyhow, this topic was broached before, B.A. was going to crack down on the posts in FS that do not belong regardless of who placed them, why not check in with him and see where this effort is at? It can't hurt and I assure you any FS mod is open to discussion.

The one area where I don't see your point is any mod can and will enforce piccy rules etc in the FS threads. That's life.

People :)

This is not the end of the world and there's no reason to cry about it. Sometimes you just need to accept the fact that we have slightly more powers :p::D Anyway, I've been recently trying to catch most of those posts as just like Mark pointed out, it was brought up to our attention before. I identified the "biggest offenders" :lol: and PMed them asking to stop to please some of you that seem to be ticked off by this fact :D

If some of you catch post like that in FS, then report that mod using cute little, red button with exclamation mark on it. I will look into it and put you on my personal blacklist for questioning higher authority :lol::p:

I hope this helps ;)

b_a

Bachus is dealing with this, and he is in charge of that section. Any problem with a section on XS should be dealt with by contacting one or more mods of that section.

If that dosnt get satisfaction, then contact an admin or the site owners.

No one should break rules, or break protocol. You think a mod breaks a rule follow the correct protocol! Speak to that mod first then the protocol listed above. We will all get on just fine then ;)

Regards

John.

Well.... Normally I find it VERY stupid to say the least for people to always complain for nothing.... But this time, it's obvious that there is a leak somewhere.... I remember when people were asking the same question as DDTUNG asked, mods were ALWAYS saying : Please deal by Private Message. Or something similar to that.... And I believe it was one of the reason for removed posting priviledge...

But as any members, the staffs should deal the exact same way...

I dont disagree with you Skate, sorry if my post came across like that :(

Regards

John.

I inserted the melodramatic part as it came to my head in regards to a few other incidents and I simply could not resist to put it in ;)

I merely think it unfair that those whom have been granted the privilege to moderate this forum also have privileges in the FS forum - asking about shipping to hong kong in my opinion is not beneficient to each potential buyer though I acknowledge your point to a certain degree etnity. UnG's point, the reason why I made a thread rather than PM is because I have seen this happening on several occasions and have read an odd rant here and there from other users. The primary purpose I feel is that the new rule isn't really working out in my opinion and another adjustment should be considered.

As of now I will go with that fantastic button.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pythagoras

I dont disagree with you Skate, sorry if my post came across like that :(

Regards

John.

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It's ok, I wasnt aiming you neither in my reply :).... I was just making the point that I normally think that others complain for nothing, but that this time, I think it's a bit different...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

I don't feel Victors(DDTUNG) is such a bad question or not of use to the community/seller.

XS is not only made up of USA people. I mean such a question could be good for the sale of the item so such posts I do not find wrong imho.....

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Hmmm Entity when you think about it thats what almost ALL of the users that posted in the FS forum asked...things like that and things that related to the sale.....ok then you would tell the people to deal with that :banana::banana::banana::banana: in PM....now mods are turning around and doing it....maybe the nublets shouldnt be punished for what they learn from the mods

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

If some of you catch post like that in FS, then report that mod using cute little, red button with exclamation mark on it. I will look into it and put you on my personal blacklist for questioning higher authority

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oh wow it seems as if you are blowing the whole matter off


hmm...IIRC I made a topic like this the day after the new rules were in effect but the thread was immediately deleted by the mods.

Its been dealt with and mods will not be posting in FS unless forum rules are broken. That is what this thread was about wasnt it?

Regards

John.

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hmm...IIRC I made a topic like this the day after the new rules were in effect but the thread was immediately deleted by the mods.

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As this should've been.

If you have an issue with a mod, or any other member, pm them. I really can't see how you can be all pro-pming ppl in the fs and then create a thread like this as a public spectacle accusing mods of wrongdoing for a total of...count em...3 posts. Talk about blowing things out of proportion.

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That is what this thread was about wasnt it?

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So yes, as stated, you wont see any mod posting there without proper reasons.

But how bout I keep my eyes open in case anyone who posted in this thread forgets to posts his pics in the fs ? :D :D :D It's going to be thread killing time !!! :p:

Perkam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by perkam

If you have an issue with a mod, or any other member, pm them.

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How can you expect to be taken seriously when the mods arent taking this thread in a serious way.. as shown below by b.a.

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I will look into it and put you on my personal blacklist for questioning higher authority

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@ZX7891,

Dude, can't you see those smileys there? Haven't you noticed that I was playing around. Man, you really need to loosen up a bit more ;)

just because he made a joke it doesnt mean we take you guys seriously :)
please calm down, the memo about not bumping/posting in threads has been handed around to all mods and it shouldnt happen again :)

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How can you expect to be taken seriously

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http://www.joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/...chill_pill.jpg

:rolleyes: :p:

Perkam

@ Perkam- Nice

Why do people keep bringing up this dead issue, i have accepted that i am not worthy of being a mod so i do not get certain rights you should accept that fact too (unless of course you already are a mod)

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i have accepted that i am not worthy of being a mod so i do not get certain rights you should

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Hmmm...I smell a sig quote !! :p: j/k

Perkam

I'm going to leave it here. I'm glad that mods will no longer post other than their authority by forum rules, however at the same time I think you're taking this very lightly.

Wow, chill pill. And was it not you who was among the most obvious offenders?

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Wow, chill pill. And was it not you who was among the most obvious offenders?

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An offender in FS is someone who doesnt post pictures, gives wrong information about hardware, or acts like a troll. I've modded the FS section, so I'd know better what an offender is.

It's good that you've left it here, as you've managed to leave here unscathed. This thread should have never been allowed to stay this long and you're lucky at how committed ppl like BA, Saaya and other supermods are in trying to satisfy members, perry.

And yet I dont see a single thank you from anyone for the amount of time given to your opinion perry. But that's not a requirement. Mods and SuperMods do what they do for the betterment of the website without asking for anything back, and then members like you come along and think this is our "job" of some sort so that if we make a small error in judgement, it needs to be shown in a public spectacle. :shakes:

Perkam

Sorry for being :banana::banana::banana::banana:y, however I have yet to find much appreciation for your particular style of humour.

Make no mistake, I greatly appreciate the work the moderators do, and greatly respect both the time and effort they put in. I did not intend to undermine the autority or judgement of the moderators or forum owners, however wished to open this subject to greater debate as it is something I would have felt prior to this thread that something the majority of the users regarded as a minor flaw of the newly enforced rule. I was never intent on harming the reputation of any moderators in particular, I just used whatever example came my way.

I don't quite follow what you hint at when you write that this thread should never have stayed open as long as it did, perhaps criticism of a newly enforced rule is not welcome. I understand and aclnowledge that it is a "work-in-progress", however an opinion should be taken into consideration before being dismissed - that I thank some of the moderators for.

Now you write that

Quote:

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An offender in FS is someone who doesnt post pictures, gives wrong information about hardware, or acts like a troll.

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Now this does not quite follow the rules as stated by Kazoo:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazoo

Ability to create posts in For Sale threads has been limited to the Seller only

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Would that not imply that only the seller should make posts? I think it absolutely correct for mods to notify about uncertanities or even question shipping (this being etnity razors point provided it is not personal), yet at the same time maintain a healthy level of intervention.

This being probably the last post as thread starter you are now welcome to lock this thread and/or disregard my opinion on the subject at your choice.

All three threads:

1. "Effective immediately", - started here / ended here
2. "Why are mods crying about thread bumping?" - started here / ended here
3. "Changes need to made for the FS forum" - started here

have been merged together to keep ALL of the discussion about new rules, consequences and comments of those in one place. Do not start new thread please. We only need one of those. Thank You! :)

Let's not drag subject of some mods posting in FS any further, please. Pythagoras, perkam and myself already promised that effort will be made to stop this from happening. Other mods were informed and asked not do do this anymore. This should give you enough satisfaction.
Let's move away from this particular subject, please. Thread is still open for any other comments (be it positive or negative) about FS section If one feels the need to voice opinion. Thanks! :)

Fine. But I'm still looking out for Perry's next FS thread :D :D :D j/k

Perkam

... but the mods are posting in FS :D


Actually, I have no idea what you're talking about... but I never pass up an opportunity to tease the mods ;)

Haha hey mtb, long time no see ... It seems you like to pop up at the right time and the right place :D

Nothing to see here :nono: :p:

Perkam

I feel the FS section has become bland with no posting by buyers allowed. At least personally, I think non-seller posts generated more hype and info for the seller (on the whole, of course there are exceptions); I gleaned alot more info at times from non-seller posts than what is originally offered up by the seller. Also, for better or worse, people are more likely to use the quick reply to ask a question in passing than to make a PM (people are lazy, it's human nature). I liked the idea someone raised about giving the original poster rights to mod their own thread, of course this raises a whole other set of issues that I won't delve into at this juncture. (And as Kazoo stated is not possible for some mystery reasons)

You got to consider the dynamic of the individuals market; on the whole, I think the casual (on-topic) banter was beneficial to the seller. FS has become stagnant and impersonal, rendering dis-service to the community.

I think it would be pertinent to re-examine some of the comments made by MUCHO and rhino back on page 2, they put it much more eloquently than I ever could.

Please don't take this post personally; it is meant merely as some constructive, albeit subjective, criticism. Back on September 12th people said give it a chance, 2 months is a fair run, but I think some issues need to be re-visited. The rest of the rules are great, and I stand fully behind them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LANjack

I feel the FS section has become bland with no posting by buyers allowed. At least personally, I think non-seller posts generated more hype and info for the seller (on the whole, of course there are exceptions); I gleaned alot more info at times from non-seller posts than what is originally offered up by the seller. Also, for better or worse, people are more likely to use the quick reply to ask a question in passing than to make a PM (people are lazy, it's human nature). I liked the idea someone raised about giving the original poster rights to mod their own thread, of course this raises a whole other set of issues that I won't delve into at this juncture. (And as Kazoo stated is not possible for some mystery reasons)

You got to consider the dynamic of the individuals market; on the whole, I think the casual (on-topic) banter was beneficial to the seller. FS has become stagnant and impersonal, rendering dis-service to the community.

I think it would be pertinent to re-examine some of the comments made by MUCHO and rhino back on page 2, they put it much more eloquently than I ever could.

Please don't take this post personally; it is meant merely as some constructive, albeit subjective, criticism. Back on September 12th people said give it a chance, 2 months is a fair run, but I think some issues need to be re-visited. The rest of the rules are great, and I stand fully behind them.

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:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

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Originally Posted by perkam

Haha hey mtb, long time no see ... It seems you like to pop up at the right time and the right place :D

Nothing to see here :nono: :p:

Perkam

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Hey Perkam :D .... yeah, I've been busy with my EE degree the last few weeks, I've had tests and projects out the wazoo, so not a whole lot of time to spend on XS.

How have you been man? I see a few records have been broken in the 3DMark area..... Kinc's sure kicking some butt.

I've seen more and more post in the F/S section without pictures and no one saying anything about it. What gives?

I also think the F/S section was a much better experience when everyone could post. Sure the thread crapping got a little out of hand there for a minute but that should be easily cleaned up by the mods.