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I need a 939 motherboard that will run Dual ATI PCI-E video cards.
The x16 slots need to be spaced as far apart from each other as possible.
I want up to 4 Volts in the bios for memory and up to 2 Volts in the bios for v-core.
Can ATI make this motherboard? :D
OPP
You're kidding right?
Kidding about what?Quote:
Originally Posted by LFATB
OPP
Sounds good Opp.
If they want to make boards for extreme overclockers they need extreme parts on the board.
- good copper cooling of mosfets.
- as small as possible drops in voltage for both vdimm and vcore.
- plenty of space around cpu-socket
- 100% working locks
- good compability with memory (especially low-latency)
Would like to be a beta-tester on such a board :D
Here's a ATI board, came with sinks on the fets, not bad but they arn't copper I don't think.Quote:
Originally Posted by GomerPyle
OPP
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...id=21252&stc=1
Looking good. Not copper, but looking good!
Does it supply enough for your request of voltages?
Is there a nr.2 PCI-E slot to the right?? :)
Here is info on this board.Quote:
Originally Posted by GomerPyle
Wes did a review.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2269&p=3
OPP
look good :D
any body hared the latest on ati's dual rendering? supposedly any two radeons. but whether or not the chip weel be a mobo chip, a sigle care chip or what is still up for grasbs
yeah 4v vdimm derrived from 5V psu rail :D
little or no voltage fluctuation/drooping of voltage at each voltage setting for vcore, vdimm, chipset etc etc voltages :)
bios settings for those AMD64 Tweaker memory timings i.e. tRC, tRFC, tRRD, tRTW, tWTR, tWR, refresh rate, etc :)
http://www.fileshosts.com/AMD/DFI/60...eaker_AUTO.jpg
one thing I'd like is a PCI-X 64bit/133mhz slot for my Raidcore BC4852 PCI-X SATA raid controller :)
key theme being = Bandwidth
PCI-E bandwidth
PCI-X bandwidth
SATAII bandwidth
dual channel memory bandwidth
:D
edit: forgot need more memory divider mem/cpu ratios i.e.
1:1
2:3
3:4
5:6
7:10
9:10
I beat you guys to it, already asked for 2.2v on the core and 3.6v on dimm. 4v is a bit high but would be nice.
I agree with eva200, steady voltage is a must. This is where MSI fell short on in the NEO line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva2000
Me too.
I've got the same controller as you, eva2000.
All the memory tweaks are real easy to do Eva...the 480 boards actually had most of what you wanted and there was a special bios also which had em all.Quote:
Originally Posted by eva2000
Very nice board. :) :slobber:Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
You made it's presentation very well...
Now show us some results with it...:D
For the slightly less xtreme everyday user here's some other things that would be great to see in a motherboard:
Important things:
-NO OVERVOLTAGE PROTECTION CIRCUTS PLEASE!!!
-Easy to navagate/well orgainized bios, with items that are named accurately.
-Balanced overclocking features. For example, don't include 4v vdimm if you're going to limit vcore to something silly. Don't make the worlds best oc'ing board with the best voltages and bios and all that, but leave out agp/pci locks. I'm not saying go all out or don't go at all, just don't waste money/time on something that isn't going to get used.
-Least number of fans possible on the motherboard. Small fans make too much noise and die too often/too quickly.
-Considered placing of components. Nobody likes removing their videocard to take memory out.
Less important things:
-Accurate temperature sensors. Doesn't have to be EXACT, just has to be unchanging. Meaning that you don't get wildly varying temperatures every other bootup.
-Decent colour scheme. Nothing too outlandish like pink slots and yellow sockets, just something that looks respectable and cool at the same time. (like an all black board, red and white lettering, red slots and sockets and heatsinks, rounded red ide cables included... )
-Good onboard sound. I imagine you guys have been following nvidias ventures into chipsets, and you've probably also seen/used their soundstorm. Good onboard sound is a great selling point for a board. Another thing is clean sound. Nobody likes it when they can't get a decent mic recording because the motherboard is putting so much noise into the mic signal. Attention to detail is the kind of thing that will really establish your boards as either high quality or low quality when you're entering the market...
-That the powerswitch, reset, hdd led and so on are all visibly labeled ON the motherboard. Its a pain in the butt to bust the manual out every time you wanna hook that stuff back up. If you can't do that then at least try to give the user a sticker or something with that info on it.
-If you're including IDE cables, rounded are obiviously prefereed. If you go the rounded cables route, please include at least 2 rounded ide cables and 1 rounded floppy cable. (It looks pretty goofy in your computer if you're running one slick black rounded cable and one plain old grey cable.)
Hopefully some of these are already in, and some will make it in. If you guys ever want to send a board over to mississauga I'd be happy to give it a workout for you :D
I agree :toast: :toast: :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by lalPOOO
High Vdimm...a nice copper cooler for the NB, same for SB (depending on chipset used) I'd like a black board with red and blue sockets and slots my self...but then again I like black and silver...black/blue/silver case, black/silver monitor lol :D
jjcom
reminds me... having the power/reset buttons on the board also is a plus... i.e. Shuttel AN50R, DFI NF3 250Gb and DFI 875P-T all seem to have handy buttons on the board .. i love them :)
I think you gentlemen have included most of the features I'd like to see in a board. I'll include two more:
- Generous spacing/gaps between DIMM slots
- BIOS option to enable/disable Bank Interleave (Disabled/2-Way/4-Way/Optimal)
Just something that will beat the crud out of nVidia.. :D
And none of those annoying GayGuru-like Windows overclocking utilities.
support for serial attached scsi, i know when segate comes out with some 15k rpm SAS drives, I want one, hell even 2, and this controller should be built into the southbridge.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage...112110253.html
along with spacing of the pci-e video cards, make it so that you don't lose slots if you have a dual video card setup as in some current sli motherboards
sata slots in reasonable places, i.e. not near cpu
chipset in a place that isn't blocked by video cards, allowing watercooling of the chipset
Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
I can smell what your cooking !
First of all, thanks for the feedback guys. It's very useful, so keep it coming.
Now to address some of the questions and some comments:
OPP: 4V VDIMM and 2V Vcore is doable and actually not difficult at all. I have discussed this with some of the big motherboard vendors and liability is thier biggest concern.
As for spacing, either between PCI-E slots or memory DIMMs, it's a double edged sword. I can understand the request for more spacing to accomodate larger aftermarket coolers. However, more spacing means longer traces on the board. This results in larger board losses as well as it clutters up the trace routing and occupies space. Space is at a premium on an enthusiast motherboard and it comes down to trade offs. Would you like more spacing between your DIMMs or would you like the DIMMs closer together and utilize the space for a beefed up power delivery system to the memories? These are the types of decisions that board makers are constantly dealing with. Regardless this is good feedback and will definitely be taken into consideration.
Regarding the pictures of the Bullhead board. The thermal solutions depicted are what's being used in the engineering labs and don't reflect what you will see on a production board. Just one other note on Bullhead...it is designed to be an OEM customer reference platform. What this means is that it's purpose is to demostrate a minimalistic implementation (a.k.a. cost effective for OEMs). Any enthusiast motherboard designed with less cost restrictions will see better overclockability than Bullhead. I would say that Bullhead overclockability is indicative of the lower end of what the chipset is capable of.
eva2000/bigtoe: The latest Bullhead sbios contains all of the memory settings you would ever need. It's not a "special" sbios per se, just an updated one. The latest sbios also has wider clock ranges compared to when Wes did his review. For example HTT bus frequency range has been opened up to 200-380 MHz. Even this is artifically clamped. The board itself is capable of much more than that, but we don't see a need for it yet until we get ahold of memories that we can run 1:1 @ 380 MHz or some other need arises.
mcnbns: Why the opposition to Windows based overclocking utilities?
Now a question:
Are there any common motherboard features that you can do without? I already mentioned that space is at a premium on the enthusiast boards of today. What would you get rid of to make space on the board for exciting new features? :)
Welcome Grayskull,
In reponse to your dimm spacing vs power question, make the power supply to the memory cleaner. I don't think people here mind having the dimms all close together like on the msi k8n. Advanced voltage options should definitly be included.
Just an idea, remove the floppy connector and just make each mobo manufactur include either a dinky usb key, or a usb floppy drive. This is what they do with laptops. Onboard sound can be taken out, serial ports, parallel ports, wireless. I DO NOT like the idea that you guys aren't putting your ethernet controller on the southbridge. The sweet thing about nvidias solution was they had one chip for everything, sound ethernet. the driver install was easy and quick.
Most gamers use a seperate sound card, and ethernet is crucial, I would like to see you guys manufactur a great ethernet controller.
My above post about serial attached scsi also. for the high end board it should ativly support this interface because many of the member here will start snapping up 15k rpm drives when they come out, i know i will.
What answers do you particulary seek? The members of this forum are very open, just make a list of questionns everyone @ your lab has and we will answer them here.
features i could do without include:
parallel ATA connectors: really only need one for optical drives these days.
floppy disk connectors: haven't used one in forever.
RS232 ports: i can't think of one thing i own that uses these.
ps/2 ports: again, everything is USB now.
i say space those pci-e 16x slots way out... we don't need 6 pci slots anyway for a benching rig. one or two is fine.
my bh5 handles 4.1v no problem, so i say just go for the full 5v on the vdimm. 2v vcore is fine, none of my A64's really respond to anything more.
how about putting operating systems on a memory chip and integrating them into the motherboard? instant boot-up :) you could buy the board with whatever OS you wanted.
also it would be nice if the board would come pre-coated with acrylic conformal coating... just to save some time.
heres what I want in a board.
tons of voltage for everything, ram, cpu, pciex slots and chipset.
take all the PCI slots off there.
leave all the midi and game ports and such off there.
ditch the sound.
1 sata connection, no raid.
2 Pata Connections.
1 floppy (bootable memtest 86)
2 USB ports, and the 2 usual PS2 ports.
LOTS of Space between the SLI ports.
make all caps and regulators and stuff top knotch, not the cheap crap that saves you a nickel per board, but makes jumpy power and useless voltage ranges.
no flashing lights, or glow in the dark stuff.
put it in a grey box.
no advertising.
no serial ata cables.
no CD's.
no extra junk thats boosts the price.
just a piece of paper saying "download drivers at ATI"
you can even write it in crayon, if you dont wanna spend money on a printer.
make the power solid, not flakey.
don't care one bit how close Dimm slots are, as long as the power is good.
make a board, we don't need to mod-cause it comes perfect, ready to benchmark with and OC with, and has no extra crap that just throw a monkey wrench into the mix by making overly complicated boards, when we don't need or use 80% of whats on there...
hahaha...
one can dream can't he??
a skeleton board, made for overclocking only...
How do you plan to "download" drivers from ATI when your board doesn't have the ethernet drivers installed? :D
hence previous post about throwing in a usb key. or usb floppy drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by `schr0et
besides most everyone has atleast 2 other computers @ their disposal lol.
Yes...Great question...Here's my answers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
1. Lose Firewire support...most people don't even use Firewire anymore considering USB 2.0s current dominance.
2. Retain only 2 regular PCI slots, this to make more room on the mobo for dual PCI-E 16x slots
3. Kinda like #1, but lose all the auxiliary connectors for un-needed additional USB 2.0 Brackets, and firewire brackets.
4. COMPLETELY get rid of PARRALEL and SERIAL connectors on the back of the board. Retain the 2 PS2-type key/mouse plugs, have Ethernet and a block of 6 USB 2.0 plugs on the rear panel. Go totally new-school on this one...
5. Try to group ALL SATA plugs in a row. Instead of splitting it up into pairs on opposite ends of the board. (Like the MSI Neo2 having 2 SATA near AGP and 2 near lower front.)
6. Please have at least 3 3-pin fan connectors, in logical places.
7. If your feeling daring, try totally leaving sound OFF the motherboard. While it may fly in the opposite direction the industry is taking, totally get back to what an enthusiast motherboard is supposed to be. A "bare" platform that is designed to simply FLY! :D
I'm going to go in a slightly different direction here.
I have a gigabyte K8NS Pro here, I like all the features, and I'm using a good majority of them. IDE Raid, Sound, USB ports, onboard USB headers, PCI/AGP locks.....etc.
I'd say make a couple versions, one with all the features, and one with maybe some cheap 5.1 sound, Ethernet, a couple USB ports, PS2 ports, maybe one SATA connector, and one IDE connector. But, give them both good voltage/overclocking options. 2V cpu, 4V ram, and then options for the chipset, video card voltage, and whatever else can be adjusted.
This way, you pretty much have the entire "enthusiast market" covered. The aircooled people who still like to have a nice setup, along with the cascade cooled speed freaks.
agreedQuote:
Originally Posted by hollywood
Wants:
Lottsa voltage for everything
Expansive BIOS settings
Top of the line hardware monitoring that works (temps, voltages, rpms, etc)
Only one PATA IDE connector (legacy)
Only one or two PCI slots max (legacy)
On board LAN, but only one!
4 SATA ports minimum
On board SATA RAID 0/1/5
On board sound
At least 4 USB ports on back
Mobo Power LED (trust me on this one)
Leave Off:
Serial Ports
Parallel Printer Ports
Firewire support
PS2 ports
Infra red
Floppy support
^^Basically what he said, but I think 2 PATA connectors rather then 1.
The sound should be awesome, THX certified 7.1 surround with all the bells and whistles. I want to be able to laugh at the Audigy 2 in terms of raw audio processing performance and features, also I would like a MIDI in, optical and coax out, plus the 3 regular connectors (perhaps have these items in a special add on card that you pay a bit extra for in deluxe mobos). The only reason I ask for this, is I don't like Creative very much. I think they stifle the audio industry, due to forcing their own standards and stuff, like with Glide and 3DFX, so this product should also add support to an open standard audio API like OpenAL or something. And adding direct support for a fully programmable audio DSP, like how video cards are programmable, would be awesome!
I want it to be able to do SLI with Nvidia video cards. Sure you're ATI, but this is not a video card and reducing the consumers options will only loose customers.
I'd also like to add, leave off wireless internet. I can buy add in cards if I want those things.
Oh and if it's possible perhaps add support for higher HTT clock speeds. I suppose it's somewhat rundant, consider there's already oodles of HTT bandwidth available, but whatever it would be cool. :) lol
I think taking off too much stuff will limit the boards appeal.
And the cost savings probably wont be as much as people expect.
For example if your allready buying a southbridge/chipset with sound processing your paying for a large ammount of the onboard sound cost, regardless if you use it or not.
The physical layer to decode the sound is cheap in comparison.
If ATI produce a budget chipset (like nvidia's MCP and MCPT) then you can make some cheap boards without these features. But I think enthusiasts will pay the extra for the right product.
Cost is NOT a big issue for most of us if we are getting the ultimate overclocking board.
Removing IDE and floppy connectors just reduces the boards appeal to some customers (myself included) and although the extra board space may be usefull I dont think its worth the compromise.
I did remember that gigabyte had a add in power card for one of there boards. This is a way of getting more space for power regulation without sacrificing PCB space.
I dont think gigabytes solution was very effective, but its an avenue worth thinking about.
The ability to use Nvidia SLI cards is important to me. The more options I have as far as graphics the better. Unless of course ATI's dual card solution is FAR superior in terms of performance and cost...
The most important thing is to have a good bios team who will continue to update and improove the bios for overclockers. DFI seem to have the edge in this department at the moment, but there is still a way to go before we get everything we want.
The more options ATI can provide for manufacturers the better.
Good luck in the chipset buisiness ATI, im looking forward to using your chipsets in the future.
I think most of it's been covered, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. :) 1 IDE header, no floppy, no parallel or serial ports, no PS/2, no firewire, just adequate USB 2.0, good clean voltage, good onboard sound, NO 3-pin fan headers, but possibly fan monitoring could be done with an add-in card, less PCI slots, probly 2 is more than enough, positioned as far away from the graphics as possible, and of course, HSF mounting holes, with lots of room for really big HSs. :cool: And use only top of the line caps & resistors, etc. Sinks for the MOSFETS in a separate bag would be cool, because I always end up lapping sinks anyways, and it'd save the board makers a lot of time & trouble. :) Good luck to ATI, in the chipset business! :toast: BTW, as far as liability concerns, just make it VERY clear on resellers' websites & such, that your enthusiast boards are NOT for first-time builders, and that the buyer understands and accepts the risks of pumping 4v through their RAM or whatever. :D ;)
on board sound is always a joke to me, it's never very good, even when it's the best people can get.
personally, I'd rather not see onboard sound on there.
just makes me waste money on something I don't need, and probably won't ever use.
a good sound card these days is usually only about $40 and can easily best the best onboard sound solutions I've seen over the years.
but the serial, and parralel ports and such need to go.
those things are from the dark ages.
I've never even seen a computer that uses them...
PS2 ports keep.
USB just isn't as fast, once you tweak out a good mouse to run at 200 mhz instead of the 125 mhz max of USB, and plus, PS2 mice are just always supported, where some USB mice are hard to support from no name brands.
caps and all, top of the line.
don't put a ton of cheap crap on there that makes the power jumpy and flakey.
if I set 1.7 volts in bios, I want it within about .005 volt always.
so 1.7 volts is 1.695 atleast.
not set 1.7 volts, and get 1.625 volts, then 1.585 under load, like what happens with canterwood motherboards.
the need for "Droop Mods" should not be a factor.
make good solid power, not flakey stuff.
oh yeah, in the Bios.
please make real bios readings there.
not a joke bios like gigabyte boards.
I wanna see the Vcore, Vdimm, VAGP, Vchipset, the 12v, 5v, 3.3volt, the Chipset Temps, the Cpu Temps, and basically any other thing you would normally find in a Abit Bios, or DFI Bios too. Epox is the same too I think...
but most companies Bios readings are nearly non existant, or barely useful.
like Asus is notorious for having basically useless Hardware Monitoring on thier bioses.
so make the Bios actually useful, with real hardware monitoring please.
like abit, epox, or DFI do...
not like gigabyte or Asus.
if you can't do a board with tons of voltages to meet everyones demands, atleast try to be above the usual board limits.
most companys limit you to 1.7 Vcore, and 1.8 VAGP, and 2.9 Vdimm.
if you can't meet extreme voltages, that we all hope you can, with like 2.0+ volts for the CPU, 2.0 VAGP, and 3.6 volts Vdimm...
then atleast take it up a notch from the usual limits to atleast...
1.85 Vcore.
1.9 VAGP.
3.2 Vdimm.
even a board with rather mild voltages like this would be better then 90% of the boards already out there.
obviously, we can't expect you to fully drop support for older stuff, cause the market still uses some of these things...
like floppy drives, and PATA support and such.
but try to be different, and drop the old printer ports, and the game thing, and welll... about half the stuff thats usually on the back connection area of the motherboard.
USB, and PS2 ports would serve almost everybody, while making a definate attempt to move hardware forward, not try to keep out dated archaic hardware users happy, while taking potentially useful space from everyone else thats moved outta the dark ages long ago.
oh yeah...
cap and resistor layout and such.
keep the area around the CPU clear for the most part.
alot of heatsinks and waterblocks just aren't usable these days, cause they leave little to no room around CPU's these days.
seen the DFI 875T?
theres barely room on that motherboard to fit your fingernail between the CPU socket and the caps and such that are a millimeter away from it.
and for the north or south bridge chipset cooler things.
use holes, not hooks.
hooks like the Abit IC7 has around the northbridge, just makes it impossible to use.
hole pattern, so if we can, use things like waterblocks on it, without worrying about hooks popping out and killing us as they shoot out of the motherboard at the speed of light...
OPP, that mobo looks awfully familiar.
my wishlist for a S939 mobo (most of the stuff already mentioned):
OC stuff:
-strong CPU powersupply (capable of feeding 4GHz 2.2V FX chip if needed)
-strong RAM powersupply (capable of feeding atleast 1GB of BH5 @3.8V)
-BIOS voltage adjustments up to 2.2V Vcore, 4V Vdimm, 1.9V Vagp+chipset voltage
-all ram tweaks (yes I know there already there) - btw does the A64 support ram dividers for higher than 200MHz (such as 200HTT/220RAM etc) ?
-DIMM slots so that DC mode uses 1&3 slot (gives just enough space to add some RAM cooling)
-Simple overclock tool (similar to Franck's CLockgen) that comes w/ driver CD (FSB, multiplier and Vcore adjustment from Windows) + temp/voltage monitoring would be useful too
-1 x PCIE slot and loads of room next to it (also a single PCIE video card that does around 10k Mark05 would do nicely :D)
Other stuff:
-NO integrated VIDEO! (unless its R9800Pro-level or better w/ DVI)
-NO integrated SOUND! (unless its Audigy-level or better w/ RCA and optical digi-outputs)
-2 x IDE, 4 (or more) x SATA (RAID 0,1,0+1), 1 x FDD
-FULLY LOCKED IDE, SATA etc so that harddrives wont go nuts once running in the 300FSB zone
-8 x USB 2.0, 1x firewire
-3 PCI slots (which are as far from the PCIE slot as possible)
But what I'd really like to see is a PCIE, DualDDR400 etc mobo for Intel Dothan chips :D
oh yeah.
how about some interesting ram ratios.
3:4
4:5
3:5
something higher then 1:1...
so we can really push ram to the limit.
I need a socket 939 mobo with AGP :P I can't think of anything more than has allready been said.
An overclockers dream dothan mobo:
vdimm upto 4.2 without mods
vcore to 2.5v without mods
2 sata ports
1 pata channel
2 usb ports
infinite fsb increasement (by 1mhz increments)
2x PCI-E 16x (for multi gpu:D)
both ddr2 and ddr1 support
four or three phase power for cpu
four or three phase power for ram
24pin ATX and 20pin ATX psu support
all pci/agp/pci-e/sata/pata bus's changable and can be locked to a specific value (in 1mhz increments)
3 pci slots, 2 pci-e 1x slots
no built in networking unless its just a basic 100mbit or a 10mbit.
no built in sound/audio/raid.
realistic temperature/voltage sensors.
socket 479 and dothan support.
nice clean layout and spaced out to make room for graphics card phase changers.
it contains hardly any built in features, great power systems, support for 2 gfx cards and has great voltage/frequency options.
would it ever be a possiability to have a onbord tv wonder ve? nearly all mobo's these days are the same with nothing to seperate them with. i think a tv tuner would be a great inexpensive addition to a quality mobo. mabey not on enthusiest boards but gen pop boards. i would like to see some flexability with overclocking but also a good on board sound/video/tuner combo for builds that can be less costly. not for gaming but for general internet usage, budget computers.
xtreme voltage options would be nice.
If thats not possible, just make the mobo so, that mods can easily be done.
Without cutting and soldering into traces and such....
i hate soldering into traces :mad:
One point is that current winbond based temperature and voltage monitoring solutions are useless.
Very very innacurate indeed..
So innacurate that thay may as well no be on the board at all.
If a winbond chip is all you can use, then dont include those features.
If you can fit somehting thats of a usefull accuracy then please do so, as it would save me allot of trouble poking with my multimeter.
Grayskull, I don't mind Windows overclocking utils like Clockgen, but mobo makers try to flash everything up to make things seem cool for enthusiasts (read: n00bs). In the end it just becomes cluttered and annoying, like Windows XP. It might be just me, but I don't like all the flashiness. I just want something that works and works well.
The perfect Windows overclocking utility would have all the overclocking options available in the BIOS in Windows (all voltages, HTT speed, LDT multi, CPU/FSB ratio (mulitplier), RAM timings, etc.) and it would have a simple layout.
Just to clarify my stand on onboard sound, if the chipset has native support for it anyways, and the quality is at least as good as Soundstorm, I'm for it. It saves room in your case. What needs addressed tho, is it shouldn't affect CPU utilization. And a simple stereo output would be adequate for me, since I run a line into my stereo anyways (gotta use good speakers ;) ). There should be a SPDIF (?) output for those who need it, but certainly there's no need to clutter up the I/O with a lot of jacks. :rolleyes: ;)
one more thing, again i emphasis Serial Attached Scsi, but something else.
nvidia did it, idk how, but they have their sata ports hooked up so your don't have to do F6 to install the drivers for windows to recognize the drives.
you must do this. and to eveyone who said they don't need firewire, i would just like one firewire on the back like the k8n neo2 has, one is enough, for something like an ipod, camcorder, or other device.
You people are crazy (no offense)...ATI isnt going to listen to us when we say...no floppy connectors, no ps2, no sound, and 1 pci slot and no firewire.
There MUST be a compromise or else we will get nothing that we want because ati will think we are retarded. Even overclockers need features. Hard core clockers who just want a benchmark score will buy like 30 boards from ATI at most, which doesnt equate to much of a profit for ATI. Many overclockers still utilize firewire, pci cards, and onboard sound. I own a computer company and usually need to build budget systems that I overclock heavily. It helps having onboard sound a lot. The savings to benifit ratio for not having sound is just terrible. They will save what like .05 cents and a miniscule amount of space on the board. And you're forgetting that many MANY people have ipods which connect using firewire :stick: . I dont think not having a floppy connector would go too well either, unless you can boot from a usb floppy or if not having a floppy connector would save A LOT of space. 2 pci slots minimum. Many people have sound cards and tv tuners, not to mention wireless lans. I think you only need one firewire port and one usb port. 4 usb ports is PLENTY and so is one firewire port. DEFINITLY do NOT include a parallel port or seriel port. THese things take up so much space and are rediculously unused. I havent even seen something that uses a seriel port. RAID is also a must, because overclockers overclock to get speed. If they don't have fast hard drives, then whats the point of being able to get 300 extra mhz if your hdd bandwidth is cut from 100mbs to 60mbs. Maybe a lower end board could be manufactured without RAID, which would make sense.
Otherwise, please have a dual bios or recovery system that works or include a flashed bios chip in with the motherboards. Use high quality vr's mosfets caps and other components. On a budget board this isnt really necessary. Vdimm to 3.3v at least, vcore to 2v at least, and many more bios options. 2 3pin connectors near where the rear fans would go are necesary, but after that, more 3pin connectors arent needed. In case you have extra space on the board, maybe you could add a 4-pin connector. It would be cool to be able to connect all your devices to the motheboard instead of routing them everywhere to the power supply :). And dont forget cooling! Cooling the mosfets, while a convenience, isnt needed because most overclockers have 20 mosfet sized heatsinks laying around. And plenty of room around the cpu socket!!! Make sure the PCB is red since you're ati, and ati=red. You could always make it a really ugly green to smack Nvidia's face. But you can only do that if its a good board :)
I tried my best to balance out features for OEM and regular computer enthusiasts and overclockers. I guess a lot of people are going to disagree with me because im not really on anyones side :eek: ...not the overclockers, or the OEM's/regular enthusiasts
You know what we need?
USB that works.
I'm sick of USB keyboards not working when trying to enter the bios due to sudden reboot or when using memtest...
If USB worked correctly we wouldnt need PS2 ports at all.. you could load up the board with 10+ USB ports and a bunch of firewire ports then we wouldnt need ANY internal slots other than those for the video card(s)... would be great for overclocking and still allow those that want a ton of stuff to hook up whatever they wanted to USB or firewire.
This is really just the base idea, I have a much better one than this, but i'm not going to let it out in the public since we are already dealing with PCIe and it would probably be better to find a more influential person to tell it to.. anyone with some time on their hands will figure it out anyways ;)
i need only 2 pci slots, one for my sound card, and the other for my capture card.
creatives next audigy will probably be pcie anyway. all i can say if ati included the above features they would sell out immmmmmediatly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobalt
Dude...you're totally NOT getting our point.
The POINT is that the LESS CRAP we have in a board design, the better.
The how's and why's as to how it's worked out are not our concern. This thread is for us to voice our opinions...and YES, the reps DO listen.
If they didn't care/listen, then some of the top OCers wouldn't be practically sponsored and getting turned into hardware whores from all the free loot they get to "test."
i wanna be a top OC'er, except i'm going to college for civil engineering and not mechanical, which is what i would most likely need to design my own cascade.
maybe i can pick up some stuff in my free time, but i think its only going to be water chillers for me :(
what about a pre-built water tube that goes along all the mosfets, northbridge etc. so that you can watercool them all? Also I want ALL plastic parts on the mobo UV-reactive, DFI forgot the 3pin fan connectors on the UT 250GB
And please don't leave out the floppy connector because you need it to install RAID drivers when installing windows!
So what do we have it narrowed down to now?
I think so far it's:
-2v+ vcore
-3.3v+ vdimm (preferably derived from 5v rail)
-a BIOS that lets you accurately change anything you could possibly want (and that isn't buggy or unstable)
-at least two pci slots
-reliable ports on back of motherboard (and none of the legacy ports that we all disable anyway)
-at least two USB ports on the mobo, only one firewire port needed
-no wasted money on Windows overclocking utils unless they work at least as well as the BIOS
-a single floppy connector (because they're still needed sometimes)
-onboard sound comparable to nVidia Soundstorm
-RAID (a lower-end version without RAID might be nice for people who don't need that feature and want to save some money)
-passive (fanless) cooling of motherboard components because tiny whining fans die quickly
-lots of room around the socket for huge heat sinks
-chipset positioning that will allow for a large heat sink without interfering with a large video card heat sink
-adequate spacing between video card slot(s) and pci slots
-no overvoltage protection
-power and reset buttons built onto the board (like Shuttle AN50R and DFI LanpartyUT)
I think most people don't really care that much about looks, but it can't hurt to make board look nice if it won't jack the price up.
This is a cool thread. Thanks for taking the time to listen to us, Grayskull! :toast:
EDIT: I think onboard 10/100 LAN would also be nice, but that's pretty much a given these days.
you forgot serial attached scsi :D trust me you will thank me when you get yourself a 15K rpm cheetah, better yet 2, in raid 0.
As far as the liability issue goes, have 2 sets of voltage options in the BIOS. The first (default) set of options would be limited to something like 1.7V CPU and 2.8V DIMM or so. Have the ability (Expert mode or the like) to switch to secondary voltage options that ramp up to 2V CPU and 4V DIMM. Also have some sort of notice when changing to the second set about the end user liability. Of course you want quality components capability of handling these voltages, but a simple warning when switching to non-default voltage settings should take the liability away from the mobo makers. That way, the clueless end user won't just accidentally set his VCore to 1.9V and fry the CPU.
Personally, this is what I would want:
-SATA ports grouped together, and designations showing which are the native ports, and which are not. Of course 0,1,0+1 RAID.
-Floppy port
-2x IDE (4 devices)
-Possibly enabling DC in the BIOS, so you have the room to say use DIMM slot 1&2 in DC and slot #4 for something like an OCZ DDR Booster that needs slot #3 for it's heatsinks, etc.
-At least 2V CPU and 3.7V DIMM, 4V DIMM would be nice. As mentioned, DIMM taken from 5.0V rail.
-2 USB ports and 0 firewire ports, with PCI slot card for additional 2 USB ports and 1 firewire port.
-Soundstorm quality onboard sound, otherwise nothing.
-No OVP
-No cluttering around the socket like the LGA 775 boards, i.e. plenty of room for heatsinks
-Full range of memory timings, with 2 sets of auto settings... 1 for basic auto and 1 for advanced auto (cas, tras, trpd, trc specifyable), as well as a full manual mode.
-Heatsinks for the components that get really hot under large voltage loads, mainly the MOSFETs, PLL chips, etc.
-No windows OC utilities, it's a waste of money when the BIOS does everything we could need. The only viable windows based OC utilities are ones that have the full range of options the same as the BIOS, else they are useless. Talk about liability... catering to people who don't know how to OC is just asking for trouble.
-No bling. It's a PCB with a bunch of jumbled capacitors, etc., it isn't supposed to be pretty.
-If possible, place the chipset in an area that can afford to have a 3" tall heatsink on top of it.
-DIMM fan mounting bracket (detachable), to make it easy to mount something like a 60-80mm fan over the DIMMs without some sort of ghetto rigging, or a wind tunnel type contraption that you could attach a 60mm fan to channel wind over the DIMM slots.
No, I clearly understand your point that the less crap the better for overclockers. I was just saying that its not in the best interest of ATI to introduce a board that has nothing on it because not many will be sold. While I agree on somethings that are not needed (seriel ports parallel ports ps2) many overclockers still want and need many onboard features that motherboard makers include. THe people who want nothing on the motherboard make up such a tiny amount of the market that im sure ATI is not going to introduce a board with nothing, even if the reps listen. ATI is about making money; not pleasing extreme overclockers that number less than 200. Its just not in their best interest to make a board that has no features so we can achieve a bit more performance. In the past, we haven't asked for such things. With some motherboard manufacturers, we asked for more voltage options etc... but we did not ask them to design a board totally for our liking. I'm sorry if you cannot understand my point, but ATI is not going to release a board specifically for less than 200 people. They will make $2000 (9.3x10-7% of their $2.14 billion revenue) if they sell 100 boards at 20$ profit; if they make a board with features and good overclocking, they could sell many MANY more boards and make much more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood
this man has a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torin
I agree in all points with you Kobalt!
Things which are really NOT necessary:
Parallel Port
Serial Port
Edit: Onboard Sound
I think a lot of guys are still using a PS/2 Mouse, because PS/2 is faster than USB and doesn't put as much load on the cpu.
There aren't many thinks which shouldn't be on a board.
OnBoard sound is crap in my opinion, because you often heare a whistling in the background which really sucks. So leave this away too and for shure no onboard Graphic card ;) The real ATI Cards are still the bests!
2 PCI slots are too less, don't you think, too?
Many guys have a:
1. Raid Controller
2. Sound card
3. Network card
So there shouldn't be less than 3 PCI-Slots!!
Ati really won't make a board only for overclockers, it will have alot of features for overclocking and a great design, but won't be without any onboard features.
Doing a search on USB vs PS/2 mouse refresh rates I found default USB refresh rate is 125Hz and, of course, ps2 is configurable to 200Hz, but the 125Hz limitation is from windows drivers, not the USB interface; that even with USB 1.1, mice can be configured to 1000Hz in Linux. USB 2.0 implementations are said to be less flaky. There are hexedit howto's and pre-done binaries to up the default limit of the windows drivers and 'gaming' mice that are sold which replace the drivers with higher refresh settings, so, USB is faster, but as mentioned, PS/2 uses fewer cpu cycles. For benchmarking sake, either would do, since you're not messing with the mouse during the benchmark run, unless USB uses more cycles than PS/2 even when idle. How much of a hit USB causes at 1KHz, or any other rate, is still a question since I didn't find an answer to that in the search. I suppose you can file this in the "perhaps more than you wanted to know" department:)
go check out the pc games part of this forum and you will see a 500hz tweak for the usb port.
@ kobalt, I don't understand your guess of 200 overclockers potentially buying a board. :confused: It's got to be in the thousands, or 10s of thousands, at least. ;)
Not to rehash what has been said because I like the explanations people gave, but a list of my own is another vote for what I like:
1.9 vcore is sufficiant. with 90nm it is insanity to use more, and the hardcore would actually be slightly disappointed to never break out an iron.
vdimm should go to 3.8. There are many ddr's that thrive with high vcore. bh5, tccd, eb, and vx to name the obvious. forget liability, that is up to the ram companies. and us. people will still break stuff modding, and by doing stupid stuff with bios options. you could be asus and take the fun out, but then you would not have many of us interested.
stable power is a must, as said. ram should obviously be off of 5v.
would it be impossible to include the mounting holes for socket A style coolers? this would leave the option of MANY more cooling solutions. also I like the dimm fan cooling bracket idea. didnt abit do this one? for mosfet cooling, toss in some small sinks like epox. they will find thier way to what needs em, even some vid card ramchips! abit's OTES is a good idea that takes very little work on ati's part. jsut a cheap plastic shroud, and a a small fan that will have plently of room out the back when you take out the serial/parallel ports ;)
agree with everyone that plenty of room around cpu is a must - and dont keep the cpu socket too low near pci-x slot, it would be hard to mount phasechange.
though I would gladly omit it, onboard sound is a must, but keep it to minimal overhead so it does not hurt overclocking or stability. audiophiles/gamers/overclockers wont be using it, and the rest wont know the difference between soundstorm and ac97.
foget the floppy - I have personally seen over a dozen floppies die, jusr die. give us a 16mb usb keychain with ati on it, and we'll all wear them proudly.
PCIx16 slots should have ample room in between - if you cant mount at least a dangerden maze4-1 to each, or at least the maze4, then that's no good. it also hurts ati's own ability to use 2slot coolers if that becomes necessary.
clear cmos jumper should work. shouldnt ever have to pop battery, pop bios, or do voodoo ritual to get a post.
well guess I liedm but this is a fun excercise. I think that you all over at Ati realize that guys over here not only represent the fervent who will snap up the best clockers, but that untold people follow our lead. rest assured that if there is a buzz here, that buzz will filter around quickly, plus, each of us probably controls the hardware buying decisions of a half dozen people or more. I know I do.
finallly, when compromizes are necessarym always error on the side of perforamance expectations. we will forgive a whole lot of quirks - even work on independant solutions for them, if the speed is there. if it isnt, then no one will bother.
I can't wait. I only buy ATI for my rigs, even in situations like this summer where some claimed nv40 was the be all of chips. I didn't buy into that and I'm glad I didnt. companies like OCZ and DFI pull a lot of weight in this community because they make top performing gear, and in return they get loyalty and good pub. ATI vid cards already have that, and I know we cant wait for the chipsets.
oh yes, and an agp version please, vid cards got real expensive. :D
btw, has anyone else raised an eyebrow at the statement that the HTT capability of the chipset is way beyond ddr? quite a challenge! :stick:
DevilsRejection – Regarding integrated Ethernet, ATI has decided that integration of Ethernet into the SB is not a very good idea. Large OEMs agree with us for reasons that I won’t go in to. Some of the other chipset vendors have a partial Ethernet integration (mac) and still require an external chip for the PHY layer. It’s not really all integrated. If an external PHY chip is needed and going to occupy board space, there is no overhead (in terms of board space) in supporting a completely external device.
Macci – Some of the SBIOS settings like multipliers (for HT for example) and some of the memory timings cannot be changed on the fly in a Windows based utility because they require a reboot. However your point is taken, simple and clear Windows based overclocking and overvoltaging tool. Actually we already have a very extensive one with a bunch more features but it's for internal use. And no, I can’t release it. :(
Holst – Agreed with the inaccurate monitoring devices. I can’t tell you how many boards I‘ve seen with inaccurate voltage and temperature monitoring. What’s worse is if these inaccurate readings are used to actively control fans and frequency throttling. It can really spoil an otherwise nice motherboard.
Kobalt – I agree that some of the requests that have popped up in this thread are pretty hardcore and in some cases could limit the acceptance of a motherboard to a wide audience. The key is to try to balance everything. ATI is willing to listen however, to all requests. And no, we don’t think people are “retarded” for making some of these “hardcore” requests. It gives insight as to what people really want out of their product.
As for powering devices through the board, it may make things a bit tidier in the case, but it will go against the whole maximum overclocking goal. As others have pointed out, the name of the game is clean and strong power delivery. Powering HDDs, CD ROMs and other devices through the board will only disrupt power delivery on the board.
I agree with your choice of color, red is nice. :D
To all – Thanks for your opinions and input and keep it coming. Some may think that this is a useless exercise but let me assure you that it isn’t; don’t be surprised if you see most of these requests actually make it to market.
Encouraging... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
Could u post a more current picture of the Radeon Xpress 200 than the one found in reviews ?Quote:
I agree with your choice of color, red is nice.
Thx, Perkam
Thanks for responding:
Sorry for putting words in your mouth; retarded was an exageration. I was just saying that I think ATI doesn't want to cater to a very very small group of people when they can please a much larger group while pleasing that very very small group of hardcore overclockers. I hope this is true, because I am a stock holder of ATI.
I thought powering devices through the board would be cool and original, but if it disrupts power like you said, then its fine to leave out since I wasn't sure what kind of consequences there would be.
spaceman - While there are thousands of overclockers, very few want a board for benchmarking only; having no features essentially makes the board benchmarking restricted, and especially since such a board would have 2 or less regular PCI slots. Its very difficult to explain my point because I have no idea what the benifits would be of removing a floppy connector or onboard sound. I don't know; I just see a big :D face when I think of a good overclocking board with nice features from ATI, and I see a big :shakes: face when I think of a board strictly for overclocking. Aren't the features like dual gigabit lan and higher bandwidth sata what help make the nforce4 chipset so much better than nforce3?
EDIT: If ATI actually does deliver boards with high voltage options I will /huggles ATI and sell my 6800 LE-> Ultra :toast:
NO DON't! He is a spy from Nvidia! lol... :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Kobalt, the fact that the RS480 is the first AMD K8 PCI-E chipset with integrated graphics (and a very potent one at that, comparatively speaking) is a good indication that ATI is aiming to please the masses. The IGP market is very large and the business potential is enormous. However, just because we have catered to the masses in the past and continue to do so, doesn't mean we can't widen our scope to include the hardcore enthusiasts. This has been a goal of the RS480/RX480 project.
As for the spy comment, yeah I know that this is a public forum and our competitors are undoubtedly watching very closely. This is why I can't tell you about some of the exciting things that we are working on :D . One thing I will say, there is a lot of work happening around servicing the enthusiast market. We've even gone so far as making silicon revisions targeted specifically to further optimize our chipset for overclocking...over and above the current exemplary results that we are seeing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobalt
The board hasn't changed visibly since the reviews. We have had the board manufactured in both red and green. There are pictures of both versions floating around on the web.
I will post pictures of the Bullhead based machine that we put together for CES once I find a place to host the pics. It features a Bullhead board, FX-55 processor, OCZ memory, OCZ Powerstream PS, ATI X850XT PE, Raptor HDD, and Swiftech water cooling equipment.
The Bullhead reference board has spawned a few "brothers" so to speak. Pictures of those will have to wait. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Grayskull, this may be a bit off topic to ask, but do you know if the folks at ATI have considered putting ram sockets on their cards so they could sell say a base card then allow us enthusiasts to buy faster ram for our cards if we want it?
Would be nice to do this on motherboards with integrated video too so you could dedicate more ram to the graphics..
Other thought is to put slots on the video cards (or on the motherboard) like system memory which would allow large ram banks for raw storage while smaller amounts of fast ram would be dedicated to the core..
Thanks for posting here, really shows a lot when manufacturers and vendors chose to put up with us enthusiasts and our rather extreme demands and sometimes outlandish ideas ;)
EDIT
I can host pics and there is an image attachment option on the forums too.
EDIT
May as well mention this while i'm up - There is a way to power HDD's and such through the motherboard and it would be fine for OEM systems and case modders but if you had too many devices powered through the setup I am thinking of it would overpower the circuitry of the board if it was not adequate. Costs could add up too probably, not to mention every case is not designed the same so you wouldnt gain on wire cleanliness much.
Okay found the image attachment feature, let's see if it works...
I like the placement of the 12v power [dfi [lower left of socket] caused trouble when I still had my xp-120], but hopefully the area on the left and right of the socket will be slightly less cluttered in a future revision.
And although some people wish it wasnt there, I think onboard sound is necessary, as are ps/2 ports and sata raid/floppy ide.
oh! some sata II support would be nice. i think via's and the first looks of ATI's boards showed only regular sata support and no NCQ support.
Can you tell us anything about different versions of the board? I assume there will be a high-end model with more features, so what will the "budget" board lack as opposed to the top-of-the-line model?
And, just as an aside, ATi pwnz j00!
i was looking at this pic and i was wondering: Do you have to remove the vga first if you want to remove your memory?
Because the clip of the mem slot is awfully close to the pcb of the vga :stick:
It's a very tight fit but you can replace the memories without taking out the video card. I've done it many times.
get used to it. this is what happends when you get the next line of videocards....they are monsters. Enjoy removing your precious videocard everytime you want to change out memory! Quite frankly, theres nothing ati can do about it motherboard wise, unless they totally re-design the boards and have the memory going horizontal, which i think is a waste of time since this layout is great. As for graphics card wise, you all want power, and power means big :). you never see a dinky smally geo doing 200mph do you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
Yea... on some motherboards you can just BARELY get the memory out. Its a tight fit, but it will get out. If you dont feel comfortable then you can always remove the video card from the slot, but still leave it in position so you dont have to fully remove it.
edit: what case is that??
ah thank god :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
i know :) my 6800LE is about the same width as my mobo :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobalt
Just wondering, can you print an image over the entire board, sortof like printing a images over the PCB before you put on the components? I wanted to know, because I wouldn't mind having a mobo with a great big Canadian flag on it. :D
Kobalt, I believe that case is the Antec Super Lanboy. My brother got one for Christmas and it's awesome. :cool:
Yes it's an Antec case. Not the "prettiest" but it's very functional.
now that your activly posting, any plans on SATA II or better yet SAS?
imo :
the serial and parralel can be left away... maybe optionally available as pci card (if really necessary)
Onboard sound is also too much, especially since a lot of ppl are not really satisfied by it.
onboard VGA is really unnecessary, except for any oem
2 Pci-e 16x slots for the coming multi rendering if i remember correctly?
1 or 2 pci-e 1x slot(s)
3 pci slots (maybe 1 or 2 between the pci-16x slots which can be left away by the extreme overclockers with big cool ideas for the gpu's
2 x ide
2 x sata
4 memory banks which is very usual
a chipset with a good cooler on it, also with easy common mounting holes for zalman/water/other
a bios with upto 1.8v vcore and 3,0v vdimm settings, if the real diehard overclockers want more out of it,they'll mod it anyways ;)
maybe you could make sure that the ocz ddr booster works on the board... since it doesn't just work on any board... and it is a hot overclockers device ;)
and what i'd personally really LOVE is when they brought out a great s939 board with agp on it, since a lot of high end agp cards are still used ;)
And of course big thanks for asking for our ideas/opinions ! :)
Heh heh, I have an Antec P160, and love it even more than my old Lian-Li PC65B. :D Gotta love 120mm fans, front & back, without needing to hack up your case. :cool: Nice RAMsinks on that vid card. I'm in the process of making some with copper bases, with big aluminum fins similar to those. :D Hmm, no onboard LAN? :mad: ;) I don't think I even own a NIC card anymore. :( No prob, those are easy to get, just do what ya gotta do to make a killer board. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
I haven't seen it mentioned that much but if it can be managed board layout.
Making the IDE connectors 'edge' style (90 degrees from the normal vertical and placed overhanging the edge) really help with getting everything plugged in. Also having the ATX and 4-pin power connectors on the edge help too.
MOSFET cooling is always a great plus, several companies (Giga, Chaintech and Abit) have done active MOSFET cooling and it seems that if done right its a huge boost for the system.
The RAM slots and making sure they don't interfere with the video cards or CPU coolers is also something that some boards have had issues with lately, out of the way ram locaction.
besides stuff already mentioned I tihnk that covers what I've got
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkangyl
i agree the edge style connectors are very convenient and make ribbon cables much easier to manipulate.
Grayskull,
Will you make a chipset that uses AGP. I, like many other people, have just bought x800 xt (AGP) and I am not ready to buy a PCI-express when I don't need it.
Regarding the ide's, I have 7 HDDs only one of them is SATA, so if you can put 3 PATA ide's (1 for optical drives, 2 for HDD's) that would be very nice (even as an option).
Being able to mount the big fans is a plus because they make a lot less noise and move roughly the same amount of air.
On board lan is there if you look closely. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman
Unfortunately AGP is becoming more and more obsolete and it doesn't make sense to develop an AGP product at this point in time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRaKaWa
if you want AGP... theres plenty of NF3's that are great AGP boards out right now to choose from.
I agree...
supporting AGP any further, isn't a good idea.
the markets definatly moving forward, and three different kinda videocard formats just isn't good for the market.
PCI videocards are fine, PCI-EX makes sense...
but AGP is obviously being phased out, and best it just be left out, cause then in a year, it won't be a issue to make PCI EX boards, and hearing people want AGP versions.
only the msi is good at overclocking as far as i have read... and i have te board...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
compared to all the others, its a great board...
but it can use a lot of improvement...
if there should be anyone who could make these improvements... it should be ati...
i think it'll cover a lot of ppl who are doubting about going amd 64 s939 but not wanting to buy a new vcard as well
why cant you just sell your current videocard??? Or even trade it with someone
I think someone said this already, but you should try to create some interesting dividers. I know most people might not use them, but I would try them. Try making like 1:2, 1:3, something big jumps, so ram becomes less of a problem of holding us back from high fsb's. Also, if you could, try to incorporate one PCI-X slot. Some people might not use them, but some could use them for a raid card.
already have 2:1 on A64 boards.
3:1 would be great :D
and i just had my x800xt for a few months... if i'd sell it now, i'd have thrown away 100-200 euro's just like that, because the x850 is coming ...
somebody needs to make an agp to pci express adapter of some sort :stick:
that's brilliant. solves everythingQuote:
Originally Posted by Kobalt
Good Idea, but I'm almost sure it's impossible... In anyway, can the chipset support three different, including SLi?
according to a recent article on the inquirer, ati does amr (ati word for sli, amr = ati multi rendering) without the bridge. it gets done all through the chipset.
Link: http://theinquirer.net/?article=20457