P55-UD6 socket burn

Just a heads up for anyone running the UD6 board: both SF3D and me have had an situation where the socket seems to be burned. My combo is still alive, but SF3D's might be dead.

I'm not pointing fingers or trying to make anyone look bad. Just a heads up; this might be an unfortunate coincidence.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...man-/ud6/l.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...an-/ud6/lo.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...man-/ud6/o.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...an-/ud6/oo.jpg

Burnt out when benching with high vcore ?

Not sure what happened - I'll wait for Petri to post his findings.

Setup still works, by the way, nothing died here:

http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/screenshot/714433.png
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=714433

:shock: Wow, you got Gigaburned.

TOO MANY PHASES?! :D :rofl:

3D mark 01 WR attempts come at a price... :rofl:

Nice to see 5.2GHz+ on 750 :up:

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Setup still works, by the way, nothing died here:

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Wow how the hack is still working, i mean it's burn quite bad:shocked:, you've checked the performance issues may be you've lost some bandiwitdhy, or some FPS in games, i mean the pins might be for IMC or DMI..
Still it's "ULTRA DURABLE":rofl:, it burns and it still works..:rofl:

i've benched 1.7v loaded with my 870 on it
no issues here hehehe :D

Yikes that looks nasty on the cpu side :eek:


Good to know combo still works, but will it burn even more while running now ???

I think that you have problem with condensation. It is easily to make short-circuit if condensation go to the problematic plase.

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Originally Posted by eva2000

Good to know combo still works, but will it burn even more while running now ???

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I had the burn a couple of days ago when I used my single stage cooling. Re-ran the setup yesterday evening under LN2 and it didn't got worse. As long as it works, I'll keep using the platform ;-).

Btw, I'm not saying this is a general UD6 error. Maybe it's a end-user :banana::banana::banana::banana:up, maybe I did something that caused this. I just posted this because apparently SF3D has had the same issue.

I know what is it ... that 's an issue from the Foxconn socket. Pin's are not solid enough and made short circuit ...

I had the same problem with an Asus MF3 during a compo. Motherboard is dead, cpu is still working though. Is now also missing some "contact pads" might be something with bad contact or nog enough power pins to supply enough power when running the cpu overclocked. (Mine died during 3dmark06)

I've knocked a pad off one of my CPU's as well same kind of location - just looking at the land diagram to see which section it is from. I suspect VTT, but not sure.

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Originally Posted by raju

I've knocked a pad off one of my CPU's as well same kind of location - just looking at the land diagram to see which section it is from. I suspect VTT, but not sure.

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VCC & VSS around there, vcore does this.

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Originally Posted by hicookie

VCC & VSS around there, vcore does this.

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Yeah just checked - A38 line.

Mine did not happen on the GB board - but board is ok (no burned socket pins though) - only 1 CPU pad is gone. Did not use any more than 1.50VID.

Oh new socket 1152!!!(massman-sf3d edition):p:
I hope it's just a coincidence

Hi all!

I got the same problem, but my CPU is working just like before. Mobo does look bad, but maybe it can be fixed. Setup worked just fine until I shutted it down myself for other reasons.

My Vcore was not even that high. 1.57V maximum. Maybe the issue is load calibration or something reltated to that.

Or it might be bad set of sockets, where current is simply burning the pins down.

Well.. I hope this is just these two boards :down:

are these retail boards guys?

Yes - retail.

Looks like the pins melted and the heat caused the socket to then melt. Amazing the chip still works :up:

since its the edge of the socket it could very well be insulation... you do use the socket metal thing to clamp down the cpu, right? its leg is right next to those pins, and condensation will form on that metal and then possibly run down into the socket, bam... im not convinced thats what happended, but if you guys had the same thing happen at the same location of the socket... thats not a coincidence... and i doubt vcore is any diferent on those pins then on other vcore and vss pins... so i dont think its some electrical anomally that causes this...

and yeah, modern cpus are really beefy on vcore pins, vtt is their achilles heel, on vcore pins you can roast them for a while before they give up, the only nehalem cpu i heard of that died from vcore for sure was in foxconns labs and it was with 2.4v on air :D
instant shutdown and dead...

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Originally Posted by saaya

since its the edge of the socket it could very well be insulation... you do use the socket metal thing to clamp down the cpu, right? its leg is right next to those pins, and condensation will form on that metal and then possibly run down into the socket, bam... im not convinced thats what happended, but if you guys had the same thing happen at the same location of the socket... thats not a coincidence... and i doubt vcore is any diferent on those pins then on other vcore and vss pins... so i dont think its some electrical anomally that causes this...

and yeah, modern cpus are really beefy on vcore pins, vtt is their achilles heel, on vcore pins you can roast them for a while before they give up, the only nehalem cpu i heard of that died from vcore for sure was in foxconns labs and it was with 2.4v on air :D
instant shutdown and dead...

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yeah mine was clamped properly. I had thought about non contacting pins but that can't be right as only one pin has gone on mine while the surrounding ones are blemish free (no visibly bent pins either). I will try to take a macro pic if I can, there is very little pad left. Looks like some i5 CPU's can have issues when pushed. Mine was not even pushed that hard, I just about got it to 4.8. No moisture anywhere as the whole socket and CPU were completely sealed from the air with eraser. Just one of those things.

/resists making sauna joke

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Originally Posted by Gautam

/resists making sauna joke

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:rofl::ROTF:

VERY CHEAPY socket from what I see through the photos.....The pins are just AWFULL in this socket (I mean the new pins)....
What make is it..... :(

a cheap greek drained in Metaxa Foxconn derative probably....

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Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

a cheap greek drained in Metaxa Foxconn derative probably....

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What exactly do you mean by that because I didn't understand it?... :)

I cant understand that either Leeghoofd..


My motherboard is not usable anymore. Pins are melted down to plastic, so they will not make contact to the CPU anymore.

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Originally Posted by raju

yeah mine was clamped properly. I had thought about non contacting pins but that can't be right as only one pin has gone on mine while the surrounding ones are blemish free (no visibly bent pins either). I will try to take a macro pic if I can, there is very little pad left. Looks like some i5 CPU's can have issues when pushed. Mine was not even pushed that hard, I just about got it to 4.8. No moisture anywhere as the whole socket and CPU were completely sealed from the air with eraser. Just one of those things.

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did you use vaseline inside the cpu socket around the pins? if no then it could still have been insulation... or too much pressure maybe?

the socket pins are bad hipro? what exactly is wrong with them? bad shape or cheap metal?

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Originally Posted by saaya

did you use vaseline inside the cpu socket around the pins? if no then it could still have been insulation... or too much pressure maybe?

the socket pins are bad hipro? what exactly is wrong with them? bad shape or cheap metal?

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In this UD6 case, insulation and condensation is not the problem. I believe, that these pins will get too hot under heavy conditions and they will just burn.

Well.. it can't be the whole truth, cause I did not even push my board yet. 1.57V was the max voltage in tests :shrug:

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Originally Posted by saaya

did you use vaseline inside the cpu socket around the pins? if no then it could still have been insulation... or too much pressure maybe?

the socket pins are bad hipro? what exactly is wrong with them? bad shape or cheap metal?

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It was selaed - the whole socket with eraser. We're only talking one lone pad on mine, no blemishes elsewhere (how likely is that?). I know you're trying to be thorough - but believe me I already checked for everything.No burned socket pins on mine; just the single CPU pad and everything around it is perfect. if the socket were at fault btw, it would certainly have been nailed by my other CPU which I gave more voltage and clocked higher.

3 guys with insulation problems within a few days and all of us at the same part of the CPU? Clamping pressure was what I normally use for my other CPU too, no problems there..

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Originally Posted by SF3D

In this UD6 case, insulation and condensation is not the problem. I believe, that these pins will get too hot under heavy conditions and they will just burn.

Well.. it can't be the whole truth, cause I did not even push my board yet. 1.57V was the max voltage in tests :shrug:

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hmmmm maybe current is the prob and not volts?

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Originally Posted by raju

It was selaed - the whole socket with eraser. We're only talking one lone pad on mine, no blemishes elsewhere (how likely is that?). I know you're trying to be thorough - but believe me I already checked for everything.No burned socket pins on mine; just the single CPU pad and everything around it is perfect. if the socket were at fault btw, it would certainly have been nailed by my other CPU which I gave more voltage and clocked higher.

3 guys with insulation problems within a few days and all of us at the same part of the CPU? Clamping pressure was what I normally use for my other CPU too, no problems there..

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well condensation probs are likely to happen at the same spot...
hmmm then what do you think the problem is?

bad socket quality i guess? i wouldnt be surprised cause foxconn had probs with the 1366 sockets as well, the early batches were sensitive to get the pins bent easily...

but how can a bad socket cause this? how can all the sockets burn at the same space? maybe thats where the cpus draw the most current through the socket? or thats where the pressure is the highest so the pins make the best contact, other pins make bad contact and even more current flows through those pins, they heat up and bam?

I would say bad connection or to much draw for those thin pins.....Burn means its getting hot.

Think about the burned traces on the classies running 4x 4890.....to small a trace for to much of a draw...

A similar test could be duplicated by trying to start your car with 10 guage wire....it would just burn right up and in very short time.

chew

if that's the case you would think then that 1.7vcore with 1.66VTT would just vaporise the pins right :shrug:

all my testing has been done on this UD6 so far

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Originally Posted by saaya

hmmmm maybe current is the prob and not volts?


well condensation probs are likely to happen at the same spot...
hmmm then what do you think the problem is?

bad socket quality i guess? i wouldnt be surprised cause foxconn had probs with the 1366 sockets as well, the early batches were sensitive to get the pins bent easily...

but how can a bad socket cause this? how can all the sockets burn at the same space? maybe thats where the cpus draw the most current through the socket? or thats where the pressure is the highest so the pins make the best contact, other pins make bad contact and even more current flows through those pins, they heat up and bam?

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It could be a in CPU grid distribution issue. If the socket were at fault the failures would not be 'random' in that X amount of current would cause a pin meltdown (the amount of current for critical meltdown is static, not a 'random factor'). If you use 0.1 VID more on one CPU than another and you've used a clamp meter to measure line draw - CPU B draws more than CPU A - why does CPU A suffer form a burned out pad if the socket has BGA soldering issues or weak pins?

That top side of socket is easy to insulate on the board I have here, in fact it is on the GB board too. For condensation to isolate a lone pad in my case if air is getting to the CPU in sub zero conditions is a weird supposition.


http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3945/burnedpad.jpg

the part of that pad that is missing was kinda stuck to the socket pin (weakly fused). It came off when I pulled it, the socket pin is fine and has no damage or signs of distress. Like I said, very isolated for condesation and no pin damage, points to a CPU side issue rather than the board IMO.

so you think the pin grid in the cpu package doesnt distribute the current load well enough, so current draw can vary and spike in a single pin/pad contact and then burn out?
makes sense... could also be the cpu socket not distributing the load among the pins well enough... that would be odd for an ultra durable board with thicker power and ground layers tho :D

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Originally Posted by dinos22

chew

if that's the case you would think then that 1.7vcore with 1.66VTT would just vaporise the pins right :shrug:

all my testing has been done on this UD6 so far

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Hmm well resistance can also cause heat......maybe the Problem lies not in the socket but the traces in the cpu itself.....The socket is just where the problem manifests itslef.

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Originally Posted by saaya

....the socket pins are bad hipro? what exactly is wrong with them? bad shape or cheap metal?

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I believe that they were constructed in WRONG shape for these currents... ;)

between the processor and motherboard pins short-circuit if the water does not.
Single stage When the humidity can sometimes be, I think this is the case.

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Originally Posted by massman

I had the burn a couple of days ago when I used my single stage cooling. Re-ran the setup yesterday evening under LN2 and it didn't got worse. As long as it works, I'll keep using the platform ;-).

Btw, I'm not saying this is a general UD6 error. Maybe it's a end-user :banana::banana::banana::banana:up, maybe I did something that caused this. I just posted this because apparently SF3D has had the same issue.

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hehehe you little killer :ROTF::up:

I had to take some "medicine" for my nervers yesterday ;)

http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00644/4914204.jpg

OC Drink:

5cl Some genuine Vodka
Intel "Adrenaline on a chip" energy drink
Ice
LN2 for cover

Then I decided to look the socket one more time today:

http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00603/4914247.jpg

It did look quite nasty and the pins were melted down in to the plastic.

I took sharp needle and started to fix it.

After 30 minutes it was looking like this:

http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00384/4914273.jpg

Board and the CPU are both booting and working like this tragedy never even happened :up:

Burned UD6 board count = 0 :D

A couple of questions that crossed my mind.....

Were both chips '750s?

Have they been tried in a different board?



Are the 7 and 8 series on identical substrates or are the 8 series reinforced because of the HT?



It could be a dodgy batch of packaging...

Did anything jump out on first inspection of the 1156 socket when you received the boards?

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Originally Posted by K404

A couple of questions that crossed my mind.....

Were both chips '750s?

Have they been tried in a different board?

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Mine was, I don't SF3D sees anything but the high-end chips :D

I tried this chip in the GD80 before, no issues. Nothing special about the socket.

rma the cpu and see what intel says happened :D

well does the ud6 use a special socket version other boards dont use?
i doubt gigabytes ud6 is the only board using the same version of this socket, so im not convinced its the socket...
im not sure it has anything to do with the board either... couldnt it just be that, since this happened at the edge of the cpus, they had a fingerprint on them, possible with thermal grease so there was a thin layer of grease on it, preventing good contact and then resulting in higher resistance, more heat, even higher resistance, and then the plastic melted? the area this happened is exactly the part where i at least always hold the cpus before placing them into the socket... and its really easy getting a finger print or a little thermal paste on the back of the cpu and onto the pads... even if you wipe it off theres still a thin layer of fat or thermal grease there...

and if the contact area of the pins and pads is small, the chance of having a bad contact is even higher... so maybe its indeed a problem of the pins and socket, like hipro suggests... in combination with not 100% clean pads?

why sf3d can i see only half immages ? :/

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Originally Posted by eva2000

rma the cpu and see what intel says happened :D

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I can't, because funnily enough I got this cpu from MSI. :p:

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Originally Posted by saaya

well does the ud6 use a special socket version other boards dont use?
i doubt gigabytes ud6 is the only board using the same version of this socket, so im not convinced its the socket...
im not sure it has anything to do with the board either... couldnt it just be that, since this happened at the edge of the cpus, they had a fingerprint on them, possible with thermal grease so there was a thin layer of grease on it, preventing good contact and then resulting in higher resistance, more heat, even higher resistance, and then the plastic melted? the area this happened is exactly the part where i at least always hold the cpus before placing them into the socket... and its really easy getting a finger print or a little thermal paste on the back of the cpu and onto the pads... even if you wipe it off theres still a thin layer of fat or thermal grease there...

and if the contact area of the pins and pads is small, the chance of having a bad contact is even higher... so maybe its indeed a problem of the pins and socket, like hipro suggests... in combination with not 100% clean pads?

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or dust or lint in the air landing in the open socket..

i've never liked LGA sockets.

Stop speculating like that Sascha :) It sounds like me and Pieter are some first timers with our motherboards.
No one noticed Pt1t reply in the first page? Biostar have got the same issues with their early boards and with these sockets. They installed cooler a bit too tight and zzzzip!

Two different CPU's. Different voltages and different configurations. Both sockets are burned from VCC and VSS pin area. It is not coincidence.
I think I know the reason. Too heavy compression to socket and CPU. My LN2 pot is usually tightened very well, so this might be as simple as that.

My own fault :up:

Only advice is that do not bend the board and do not use too much force when installine LN2 pot or some other cooler.

Sounds like the amount of current being pushed through the pins caused them to heat up excessively which further increases resistance which further increases heat, repeat ad infinitum. Combine this with the clamping pressure of your heatsinks pressing the CPU and pins so that the pins are making contact with the plastic backing(like SF3D just mentioned) of the socket and voila, melted plastic socket with a side of roasted CPU. I'd say you need thicker pins in order to successfully transfer these amounts of current without causing this to happen. The pins shouldn't get that hot..

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Originally Posted by STEvil

or dust or lint in the air landing in the open socket..

i've never liked LGA sockets.

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The increased lint in the air must be from all the tissues people are using due to swine flu. Seems to be 'intelli-lint', in that it's attracted to everywhere but the top left corner of the socket on P55 boards. :)

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Originally Posted by SF3D

My Vcore was not even that high. 1.57V maximum. Maybe the issue is load calibration or something reltated to that.

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I had the melting down the only time I set loadline to "level2". Relatively low voltage as well (1.58-ish) and cooler wasn't attached particularly tight. Board wasn't bent.

OK, board and cpu is working but will it clock and be benchable to similar speeds as before?

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Originally Posted by SF3D

5cl Some genuine Vodka

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Mate, it is not just genuine vodka :D It's one of the best vodkas and my favorite :)
Do they sell this in Finland too? :p:

Seems around 120-130 amps is enough to cause this according to what I saw on the clamp meter on the CPU I've got with the burnt pad.

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Originally Posted by massman

Just a heads up for anyone running the UD6 board: both SF3D and me have had an situation where the socket seems to be burned. My combo is still alive, but SF3D's might be dead.

I'm not pointing fingers or trying to make anyone look bad. Just a heads up; this might be an unfortunate coincidence.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...man-/ud6/l.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...an-/ud6/lo.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...man-/ud6/o.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...an-/ud6/oo.jpg

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Think about it ... at 1.65V, you are around 250watts ... this is 150AMPS!
gigabyte gave what the Overclockers asked ... now, use it with moderation ... I tested on a mecanical thermal dummy ... the UD6 can deliver up to 160AMPS without occilation ... at this point, you are more than 2x the specs for currents ... and 60% over the voltage ...
and 263% of the based power ...
OC is like alcool, use it with moderation .. :rofl: :clap: :clap: :yepp:

Gigabyte gave what you guys ask ... you are now like F1 drivers ... if you try to corner at 280km/h, you ll end up in the wall :)

May the Core be with you!

Francois

I don't even think you need 160 amps Francois - I think 120-130a can cause it. That being said, i5 never was designed to upstage i7 so I guess you get what you pay for (not that I'm complaining).

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

Gigabyte gave what you guys ask ...

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when was the last time you heard an overclocker praying "16 phases is not enough , please give me more" ?
okay, we got the "more" anyway and what we ended up with? :rofl:

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

Sounds like the amount of current being pushed through the pins caused them to heat up excessively which further increases resistance which further increases heat, repeat ad infinitum. Combine this with the clamping pressure of your heatsinks pressing the CPU and pins so that the pins are making contact with the plastic backing(like SF3D just mentioned) of the socket and voila, melted plastic socket with a side of roasted CPU. I'd say you need thicker pins in order to successfully transfer these amounts of current without causing this to happen. The pins shouldn't get that hot..

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You got it man ! resistance makes heat , clamping pressure so high the cpu rest on plastic and the "pins" all have there own touching pressure & multi phased 16+ :up: the shape of the pins remind me of sharpening tungsten to weld moly
only the points melt after a while with a tiny tiny ball on the end after done,

Things are getting mighty precision now and need a clamp & socket to match that pwr ( need more flatplate contact at the pad per pin )...

the old saying carefull what you ask for ;) u just might get it ....just my 2 cent

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Originally Posted by raju

I don't even think you need 160 amps Francois - I think 120-130a can cause it. That being said, i5 never was designed to upstage i7 so I guess you get what you pay for (not that I'm complaining).

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I did some study ... just because I wanted to see where it can go ...

So, oxidation on the pin or the contacts of the processor increase their resistance by a little ... 0.1 Ohm ... but at 120 or 160amps ... this is a lot of heat to discipate ... think about it:
http://www.the12volt.com/ssi/getimag...N=ohmtable.gif
:shocked: ... (ohm law)
(seconds formula on the left up corner ... P= IxI x R )

When the socket guys design all of this, they actually pay a lot of attention to this.

my guess in those cases is "finger print" or oxidation due to Liquide nitro condensation plus an incredible UD6 voltage supply that does not bend under load. (thing requested by the OC community)

so, make sure you don't condensate inside the socket, and use dry hands on the pins and contacts. (when I OC with low temps, I use a non conductive silicon grease to fill the socket, it avoid condensation 100% ... a little messy , but save for hours)

Francois

Or just some vaseline :rofl:

i'm NOT quite entirely sure ..but vcc is only one pin on this i5 series? how many vcc pins does core i7 have? one or more?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

i'm quite entirely sure ..but vcc is only one pin on this i5 series? how many vcc pins does core i7 have? one or more?

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http://download.intel.com/design/pro...hts/322164.pdf

page 88 to 91 !

-----------------------------------------------------------

http://download.intel.com/design/pro...nex/322167.pdf
you can figure out with this diagram what burned.
G38/39 or H38/39 are the pins that burned, and it looks like it is VCC :)

read the documentation before doing funny claims like this :) ...
one pin ... i almost swallowed the wrong way my coke when I read this.

Francois

so it was more than one..i can't imagine 100A on one pin LOL

thanks Francois



***i just noticed "not" should have been in my first statement, "i'm not quite entirely sure"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raju

Yeah just checked - A38 line.

Mine did not happen on the GB board - but board is ok (no burned socket pins though) - only 1 CPU pad is gone. Did not use any more than 1.50VID.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

I did some study ... just because I wanted to see where it can go ...

So, oxidation on the pin or the contacts of the processor increase their resistance by a little ... 0.1 Ohm ... but at 120 or 160amps ... this is a lot of heat to discipate ... think about it:
http://www.gif
:shocked: ... (ohm law)
(seconds formula on the left up corner ... P= IxI x R )

When the socket guys design all of this, they actually pay a lot of attention to this.

my guess in those cases is "finger print" or oxidation due to Liquide nitro condensation plus an incredible UD6 voltage supply that does not bend under load. (thing requested by the OC community)

so, make sure you don't condensate inside the socket, and use dry hands on the pins and contacts. (when I OC with low temps, I use a non conductive silicon grease to fill the socket, it avoid condensation 100% ... a little messy , but save for hours)

Francois

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Seems it's not just Gigabyte boards Francios......

So if its not giga and gigas "phase"

It's either the same socket used by 2 companies ( which is specced by intel ) or the other common denominator......the cpu...

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Originally Posted by STEvil

or dust or lint in the air landing in the open socket..

i've never liked LGA sockets.

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well... if you open any oldschool socket, it actually looks about the same as an lga socket... its under a plastic mesh, but i doubt that prevents it from getting dirty... on the contrary, the dust and dirt will find a way in, always, but it wont be able to be brushed off like in an lga socket... i think when it comes to dust and dirt, an lga socket is actually better cause you CAN clean in... on a traditional socket you have to take the socket apart and even then its tricky to clean... once you got vaseline or anything else inside a traditional socket, forget about ever getting rid of it again :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SF3D

Stop speculating like that Sascha :)

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hm? speculating like what?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raju

Seems around 120-130 amps is enough to cause this according to what I saw on the clamp meter on the CPU I've got with the burnt pad.

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hmmm that chip suck a lot? current wise i mean :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

i'm quite entirely sure ..but vcc is only one pin on this i5 series? how many vcc pins does core i7 have? one or more?

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vcc is power, and its a whole lot more than 1 :D
vcc and vss are usually 30% of the pins iirc... quite a lot...
for 1366 there are around 200 vcc and 200 vss pins... well there are more vss pins but those are the vss pins for vcore...
1366 cpus are rated for up to 145A which means each pin is close to 1A... and it literally is just a tip of a needle... looking at the socket pins is actually quite deceiving, since they will bend down and left compared to where they are on the pic... the ones that were molten into the plastic of the socket are still in their original position further down and left...

looking at the cpu pads, there are both burned ground and vcore pads... and interesting is that away from the main spot, lets say ground zero, there is a diagonal row of 3 pins that shows slight burn marks as well... those pins are ground! yet no vcc pin close to them shows any burn signs... so where did the current come from?

basically most of this corner is vcore pads, with diagonal rows of ground pads seperating them. 1 diagonal row of ground pads and then 2 rows of vcore pads... ground zero is exactly between 2 vcore rows and one ground row... since there is a mesh inside the cpus package connecting all ground and vcore pins to even out fluctuations and pins making bad contact, it would explain how the further away ground pads got burned...

if you think of how the socket closes, the top is definately where the pins experience the most pressure... and the left is where all the vcore pins are located, so thats probably why it happened on the top left corner.

those 3 singed ground pins are definately sticking out... why would they be slightly burned? it means there must have been a lot of current flowing through them... why did it flow through those 3 pins? cause they are grounded slightly better than other vss pins i guess...

it looks like the other ground pins close to it couldnt ground well enough, so a lot of current went through those 3 pins instead, and not the other pins... why did the other ground pins not ground well enough? cause they were hot and had a higher resistance? or they were making bad contact?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

I did some study ... just because I wanted to see where it can go ...

So, oxidation on the pin or the contacts of the processor increase their resistance by a little ... 0.1 Ohm ... but at 120 or 160amps ... this is a lot of heat to discipate ... think about it:
http://www.the12volt.com/ssi/getimag...N=ohmtable.gif
:shocked: ... (ohm law)
(seconds formula on the left up corner ... P= IxI x R )

When the socket guys design all of this, they actually pay a lot of attention to this.

my guess in those cases is "finger print" or oxidation due to Liquide nitro condensation plus an incredible UD6 voltage supply that does not bend under load. (thing requested by the OC community)

so, make sure you don't condensate inside the socket, and use dry hands on the pins and contacts. (when I OC with low temps, I use a non conductive silicon grease to fill the socket, it avoid condensation 100% ... a little messy , but save for hours)

Francois

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IF you take a CLOSER look at the photos the guys have uploaded, you will see that there was NO oxidation at ALL..... ;)
Why?
Because those pins would have taken a white/green colour and the plastic around them would have been somehow white.... ;)
I can see a VERY CLEAN socket and golden pins BUT melted plastic....
PLUS the pins where "down" NOT only from pressure but they just lost their "flexibility" and shape due to 2 reasons:
a. BAD metal material (for flexibility) and
b. TOO much current for their "shape" and their material so when the current was rolling through them, the pins started to get hitted much and - maybe - they got RED from the temperature and they have melted the plastic of the socket... :)
So for me it's not Gigabyte or any Gigabyte’s fault. It's the company that has made them and shells these sockets to mobo manufacturers.... ;)

Guys what make is that socket?... :)

P.S. @Drwho: Would Intel RMA such a CPU now or not?....and IF NOT, whom these guys would blame if they don't get their money back that have paid (CPU and mobo) WORKING for a month to pay for them? (regular guys that are from "poor countries") - if you can understand what I'm talking about?
For SURE an employee in the computer shop, will NOT RMA this CPU and this Mobo with bended/melted socket/pins... ;)

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Originally Posted by hipro5

IF you take a CLOSER look at the photos the guys have uploaded, you will see that there was NO oxidation at ALL..... ;)
Why?
Because those pins would have taken a white/green colour and the plastic around them would have been somehow white.... ;)
I can see a VERY CLEAN socket and golden pins BUT melted plastic....
PLUS the pins where "down" NOT only from pressure but they just lost their "flexibility" and shape due to 2 reasons:
a. BAD metal material (for flexibility) and
b. TOO much current for their "shape" and their material so when the current was rolling through them, the pins started to get hitted much and - maybe - they got RED from the temperature and they have melted the plastic of the socket... :)
So for me it's not Gigabyte or any Gigabyte’s fault. It's the company that has made them and shells these sockets to mobo manufacturers.... ;)

Guys what make is that socket?... :)

P.S. @Drwho: Would Intel RMA such a CPU now or not?....and IF NOT, whom these guys would blame if they don't get their money back that have paid (CPU and mobo) WORKING for a month to pay for them? (regular guys that are from "poor countries") - if you can understand what I'm talking about?
For SURE an employee in the computer shop, will NOT RMA this CPU and this Mobo with bended/melted socket/pins... ;)

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foxconn?

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Originally Posted by proxis

when was the last time you heard an overclocker praying "16 phases is not enough , please give me more" ?
okay, we got the "more" anyway and what we ended up with? :rofl:

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:D

Actually there is NO NEED for 164 phases :D that companies put in nowadays mobos.... FOUR (4) are enough with nowadays materials and maybe SIX (6) with the upcoming Gulftowns.... ;)
The 1024 phases is a "marketing trick" nowadays.... ;)
You will buy MY mobo because I put 2048 phases in my motherboard.... :D

Someone please calculate the Wattage of a P4 Gallatin at 2.23VCore at 4600MHz with ONLY FOUR phases and tell us what you see..... :)

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Originally Posted by webbyboy

foxconn?

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No, I don't believe so....It's not "their style"... :)

The new Volterra slaves are 40~45amps each, can switch over 1MHz - 6 to 8 phase of those and you can more than max out CPU's even on LN2.

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Originally Posted by hipro5

IF you take a CLOSER look at the photos the guys have uploaded, you will see that there was NO oxidation at ALL..... ;)
Why?
Because those pins would have taken a white/green colour and the plastic around them would have been somehow white.... ;)
I can see a VERY CLEAN socket and golden pins BUT melted plastic....
PLUS the pins where "down" NOT only from pressure but they just lost their "flexibility" and shape due to 2 reasons:
a. BAD metal material (for flexibility) and
b. TOO much current for their "shape" and their material so when the current was rolling through them, the pins started to get hitted much and - maybe - they got RED from the temperature and they have melted the plastic of the socket... :)
So for me it's not Gigabyte or any Gigabyte’s fault. It's the company that has made them and shells these sockets to mobo manufacturers.... ;)

Guys what make is that socket?... :)

P.S. @Drwho: Would Intel RMA such a CPU now or not?....and IF NOT, whom these guys would blame if they don't get their money back that have paid (CPU and mobo) WORKING for a month to pay for them? (regular guys that are from "poor countries") - if you can understand what I'm talking about?
For SURE an employee in the computer shop, will NOT RMA this CPU and this Mobo with bended/melted socket/pins... ;)

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your opinion is a title too definitive for my taste, and based on no science ... figuring out the cause of this with the color of the plastic is "funny" at most.
you like looking for "fight", as your PS try to, I gave my opinion, you are free to dissagree ... you should try a less caustic style.

Look at the specs, do some experientation, and then conclude, this is the way it works in computer science.
FYI :Oxidation is rarely visible to the eyes on the processor connection pads, at least, when it is around few 1/10 of Ohms ... if it was "green" due to Copper oxidation:
1) those metal mix don't oxidize because copper usually
2) If it was visible to the eyes, you ll be in the 1 Ohm area...

I tested those thing on Skulltrail, then I did my Dual Chiller configuration , and it went it smoke after 2 months of running. I usually spend the time to understand my mistake scientifically.

lol ... :rofl: :ROTF: :ROTF:

Francois

Well, would Intel RMA this CPU? I reckon not?

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Originally Posted by hipro5

:D

Actually there is NO NEED for 164 phases :D that companies put in nowadays mobos.... FOUR (4) are enough with nowadays materials and maybe SIX (6) with the upcoming Gulftowns.... ;)
The 1024 phases is a "marketing trick" nowadays.... ;)
You will buy MY mobo because I put 2048 phases in my motherboard.... :D

Someone please calculate the Wattage of a P4 Gallatin at 2.23VCore at 4600MHz with ONLY FOUR phases and tell us what you see..... :)



No, I don't believe so....It's not "their style"... :)

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I trend to agree that over a certain number of VREG, there are not much difference, never the less, in cornet case , adding voltage source and current source in parrallel (as explain in Norton theorem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton's_theorem or Thévenin for the hell of it :) ) , there is a benefit when the work load is heavier ... In the case of overclocking, it will cause more stable current when you are pulling hard on it.
It can cause some current rush too, so, it is an interesting trade between cost and perfection.

When you look at what overclocking is about, it is about making hundreds millions of transistors pulsing faster than their specs, having a more stable VCC is a plus ... it is hard to do the science behind this, but a variation of few mV during a massive pull of 200W can cause transistors to stop reconizing the same switching point over the dice, due to electric propagation. This is how multiphase actually help.
If you want to check the minimum Phare required, it is fairly simple, remove them one per one, and run at 4.4Ghz ... you will discover than under a certain number, the VREG warm up, start ocillating, and cause crashed ... I did this study on Skulltrail ... I havr no data for P55.

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Originally Posted by massman

Well, would Intel RMA this CPU? I reckon not?

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it did obviously run out of its specs ... so no RMA. Fair!

And what about Gigabyte/Foxconn ? The main issue seems to be there ? Would we be sure this would not happen at a mild OC of eg 4ghz on air ? Only time will tell

As soon as you OC (frequency) you're out of warranty, the warranty VID is based upon stock operating frequency of the processor in question. So, no, we're not covered or eligible for a return unless someone is having a good day at the RMA lounge.

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Originally Posted by hipro5

No, I don't believe so....It's not "their style"... :)

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http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...ssman-/fox.jpg

:confused: :(

hmmm makes sense george... pins are not flexible enough to keep the pressure against the cpu pads constant, lower pressure = worse contact = higher resistance = higher temperature = pins lose even more flexibility and force to push up against the pads... and the more pressure you put on them the easier it happens...

but it always happens at one spot, so i think the socket distributes the pressure unevenly as well, which doesnt help...
so while the socket clamp down mechanism works fine in normal situations, here it seems to be a part of the problem, otherwise vcore pins would fail at random locations...

and the socket is foxconn... at least on the earlier versions of the ud6 it was?
http://media.photobucket.com/image/g...6bp1S-back.jpg

francois, if anybody can tell you something about the properties of a contact pin/pad by looking at its shade and color, its probably george :lol:

and i dont think overclocking as in increasing the clockspeed voids any warranties, increasing voltages and temperatures is what damages logic, not increasing its clockspeed... if your cpu runs within specced temp and voltages, i dont think the warranty is voided and intel will refuse an rma...

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

I trend to agree that over a certain number of VREG, there are not much difference, never the less, in cornet case , adding voltage source and current source in parrallel (as explain in Norton theorem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton's_theorem or Thévenin for the hell of it :) ) , there is a benefit when the work load is heavier ... In the case of overclocking, it will cause more stable current when you are pulling hard on it.
It can cause some current rush too, so, it is an interesting trade between cost and perfection.

When you look at what overclocking is about, it is about making hundreds millions of transistors pulsing faster than their specs, having a more stable VCC is a plus ... it is hard to do the science behind this, but a variation of few mV during a massive pull of 200W can cause transistors to stop reconizing the same switching point over the dice, due to electric propagation. This is how multiphase actually help.
If you want to check the minimum Phare required, it is fairly simple, remove them one per one, and run at 4.4Ghz ... you will discover than under a certain number, the VREG warm up, start ocillating, and cause crashed ... I did this study on Skulltrail ... I havr no data for P55.

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I think this is largely based upon the switching frequency of the circuit and the current handling per phase (and obviosulty including deoupling). A greater number of phases will reduce stress by having a shorter duty cycle per phase (although max current capability may still be limited if the company uses small and cheap fet's). Output impedance per phase wouldbe a point of contention I guess, although ultimately one has to come back to total current handling and bandwidth.

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Originally Posted by kiwi

OK, board and cpu is working but will it clock and be benchable to similar speeds as before?




Mate, it is not just genuine vodka :D It's one of the best vodkas and my favorite :)
Do they sell this in Finland too? :p:

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I found it funny that someone from Finland would dare drink something made in russia. especially if it was called Ruski Standard. :p:

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

it did obviously run out of its specs ... so no RMA. Fair!

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I would tend to agree. I mean really, how many overclockers can successfully claim that their burn out chip as a result of LN2, etc. Can be RMA'd through normal channels while openly saying that they overclocked the chip and burnt it out. Nobody.


As for the whole number of phases, we all know that the number isnt really what matters. Nor does whether its digital or analog... its something different altogether considering we have seen analog pwms perform better than digital ones, especially those with really good switching frequencies.

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Originally Posted by massman

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...ssman-/fox.jpg

:confused: :(

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Shi(f)t!!....Why did they do it?... :(


P.S. By RMA I ment a "regular working CPU" that after some time (maybe months) in this same socket gets burned like this....

Let's see it someway different.
A reviewer changes MANY times CPUs on a mobo.
After some times the pins of such a socket looses their flexibility and one day he burns a CPU AND a mobo he has bought.
CAN he claim an RMA for both CPU AND Mobo?

If the rig was ran at stock and within warranty settings... why should it be refused?

Warranty doesnt state that RMA will only be honoured if the rig is not rebuilt more than X no. times.

As long as this doesnt start popping up at stock, I dont see what the big problem is.

We OC, we push voltages and temps... we run the risk, we take it like men when things fall apart....although it is slightly 2-faced when things that are advertised by companies are warranty-voiding if we try them out

I don't think you can. Obviously this socket that wears out does not meet Intel spec anymore. You can claim mobo RMA though because they made a :banana::banana::banana::banana:y socket. But then again, this applies only if stock cooling was used. No definite answer here.

If my PSU runs out of spec and burns all my system I can't claim RMA, can I? Only PSU rma but not the whole system. Same here.

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Originally Posted by Russian

I found it funny that someone from Finland would dare drink something made in russia. especially if it was called Ruski Standard. :p:

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Well, you remember an old joke about Russia. They make only 2 good things: weapons and vodka :ROTF: :D

so I'll put up a 24/7 WCG machine with an i7 860 and wait and see, if it goes into smoke, right? :lol:

hey vivi someone said VASELINE in this thread... just thought youd want a heaps up man!

cirthix, yes, but not every vodka and weapon from russia is good ;)
what they really do well in russia and eastern europe are... women :p
ahum, enough ot :D

i thought we already ruled out that its a gb thing cause other boards are affected too?

Umh! I'd like this issue to get fixed (or better say resolved) before I purchase the mobo :(

Hurry!! Just one month now ! If it was proven that's the socket fault...

...and than manufacturers would create a new revision or we'd have to play "russian roullette" so ?

It seems like @no advantage for 24 phases on LGA1156, if the pins are the bottle neck for higher amps :yepp: . I meen Gigabyte makes good work, Intel/Foxcon engeneering(socket) :down: .

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Originally Posted by saaya

and i dont think overclocking as in increasing the clockspeed voids any warranties, increasing voltages and temperatures is what damages logic, not increasing its clockspeed... if your cpu runs within specced temp and voltages, i dont think the warranty is voided and intel will refuse an rma...

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I recommand you go and read the license agreement of Intel OR AMD processors before you speak.

Francois

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

it did obviously run out of its specs ... so no RMA. Fair!

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Obviously? :p:

But, fair point: this chip should never be RMA'd. Wouldn't try it anyway/

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

I recommand you go and read the license agreement of Intel OR AMD processors before you speak.

Francois

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I think he overlooked operating frequency bearing direct relationship to power when he made reference to 'logic damage'..lol. I'd imagine this is the major contributing factor to needing warranty stipulations outlining the warranty VID range at stock operating frequency.

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

I recommand you go and read the license agreement of Intel OR AMD processors before you speak.

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Just did so for the heck of it :)

Excerpt from http://download.intel.com/support/pr...r_warranty.pdf

EXTENT OF LIMITED WARRANTY
Intel does not warrant that the Product will be free from design defects or errors known as “errata.” Current characterized errata are available upon request. Further, this Limited Warranty does NOT cover:

Any costs associated with the repair or replacement of the Product including labor, installation or other costs incurred by you, and in particular, any costs relating to the removal or replacement of any Product that is soldered or otherwise permanently affixed to any printed circuit board; OR damage to the Product due to external causes, including accident, problems with electrical power, abnormal electrical, mechanical or environmental conditions, usage not in accordance with product instructions, misuse, neglect, alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing; OR any Product which has been modified or operated outside of Intel’s publicly available specifications or where the original identification markings (trademark or serial number) has been removed, altered or obliterated from the Product.

Now, zapping to i7-800 series product instructions (installation and usage section) indeed voltage settings are mentioned, but absent is changed clock speed, so I'd think either "alteration" or "improper testing" could cover overclocking without electrical changes. Things is it isn't clearly outlined in the license agreement.

:shrug:

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Originally Posted by xt0m

but absent is changed clock speed, so I'd think either "alteration" or "improper testing" could cover overclocking without electrical changes. Things is it isn't clearly outlined in the license agreement.

:shrug:

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The following from the link you provided pretty much covers overclocking of any sort.

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• any Product which has been modified or operated outside of Intel’s publicly available specifications or where the original identification markings (trademark or serial number) has been removed, altered or obliterated from the Product.

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Originally Posted by Praz

The following from the link you provided pretty much covers overclocking of any sort.

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Blherrghh.. hadnt seen, lol - my bad :explode:

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

I recommand you go and read the license agreement of Intel OR AMD processors before you speak.
Francois

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so changing any clockspeed above what intel officially supports/specifies voids the warranty?

Core i7 1366 doc:

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Although these units are factory-configured for 1333 MHz integrated memory controller frequency, Intel does not support operation beyond 1066 MHz

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so wait, running an i7 above ddr3 1066 voids warranty?
intel certifies xmp profiles that go above 2000, but running above 1066 voids the warranty? i dont even know a SINGLE person who runs his i7 at only 1066... even pre-configured systems from dell and hp etc run their memory above 1066...

so intel basically made the official warranty so tight, about every single end user who ever uses an i7 voids its warranty and intel doesnt actually have to rma the cpu if they want to... :rolleyes:

i think you guys are overdoing it a bit francois ;)

back on topic, so it basically boils down to this?
1.) too low contact pressure of the socket pins
2.) unbalanced current draw through the socket/cpu package

how can we avoid or fix this:
1.) (Intel) more vcc and respective vss pins
2.) (Intel) reworked cpu package for more balanced current draw
3.) (Intel/Foxconn) stronger socket pins to improve contact pressure
4.) (Intel/Foxconn) check socket lever and make sure the pressure is distributed evenly accorss the pins when the socket is closed.
5.) (Gigabyte etc) thicker vcore power plane to balance current draw better
6.) (Gigabyte etc) more stable current supply from the pwm?
7.) (user) make sure the cpu socket and pads are clean
8.) (user) make sure pins arent bent slightly
9.) (user) make sure the cpu is seated 100% correctly and pins and pads make good contact by wiggling it around before closing the socket
10.) (user) make sure the cpu doesnt get mounted too tight with too much pressure

thats all i can think of...
1/2 wont happen, im sure... its about cost and this is a mainstream socket which means every fraction of a cent counts... and at stock it works fine...

3/4 would be cool if intel would look into this and maybe revise their guidelines to the socket mfcs, or if the socket mfcs would look into this and revise their sockets... this mostly depends on the board makers requests though...

5/6 idk how much this would help, but at least thicker and well laid out power planes cant hurt... about the pwm, they should do this regardless of this problem anyways :D about time we get rid of this pwm mega phase-mania...

7/8/9/10 i doubt this helps much, but thats all i can think of end users can do to at least make it less likely to happen or not make it even worse...

You can omit 3 from the list, the switching frequency affects the transient response and bandwidth, it is not the root cause. To prevent the burnout from happening period on setups, you'd need to lower VID/current, as soon as you do that, you have to lower the CPU operating frequency too.

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Originally Posted by saaya

back on topic, so it basically boils down to this?
1.) too low contact pressure of the socket pins
2.) unbalanced current draw through the socket/cpu package
3.) possibly pwm switching related?

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This is still speculation really. No one has actually had a look at SF3D's or my board apart from the pictures posted here.

Sascha sometimes likes speculation - I think we should call him 'Speco'...lol

I don't think Intel can verify that particular cpu has been overclocked or not. Or they can?
So it still depends on user's ethics and honesty whether he decides to RMA it or not.

BTW, I remember I had Intel Bad Axe board when Conroe just came out and believe it or the board died in such a way that it saved all my overclocking settings without the ability to erase it (not even bios reset). So If I sent it to RMA they would certainly see that I run cpu out of spec :) That's interesting

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Originally Posted by saaya

so changing any clockspeed above what intel officially supports/specifies voids the warranty?

Core i7 1366 doc:


so wait, running an i7 above ddr3 1066 voids warranty?
intel certifies xmp profiles that go above 2000, but running above 1066 voids the warranty? i dont even know a SINGLE person who runs his i7 at only 1066... even pre-configured systems from dell and hp etc run their memory above 1066...

so intel basically made the official warranty so tight, about every single end user who ever uses an i7 voids its warranty and intel doesnt actually have to rma the cpu if they want to... :rolleyes:

i think you guys are overdoing it a bit francois ;)

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