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finally!
as san aces faze out of the market could we see the new king of WC fan?
head on over to frozen cpu to see the TFC Triebwerk 120x120x55mm fans
1800rpm-
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/90..._1800_RPM.html
1200rpm-
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/90..._1200_RPM.html
at $34.95 a pop, whos going to be first to have 8 of these puppies push/pull on their 120.4 rad?
i want pics
:rofl: ...and I was there about 40 minutes ago....are you stalking me? :stick: :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffsthaboss
I got burned bad enough on the :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: fans when they came out. I'll stick with YL, S-flex and UK's thank you. ;)
LOL :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffsthaboss
$35??!!:shocked:
$35 for a fan that does 3.38 mm H2O? :down:
The $11 Scythe Ultra Kaze 2000rpm is rated for slightly over 4.00 mm H2O. This must be a joke.
IIRC, these were designed with Fester rads in mind (especially the Monsta). What else did you expect from Fester? All their stuff is over priced and over hyped by the shills.Quote:
Originally Posted by faster3200
Wow....$35! :shocked: Hell that does not even include the shipping etc. I will keep my San Aces spank you very much!
definately not paying $35 for a fan
my 2x Delta 120x38 @ $25each from sidewinders raped me enough last year
like their radiators, but uhhh..no to the FANS due othe price only...should be like 15 bucks. :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
This looks like a 35$ fan:
http://images.ncix.com/forumimages/1...36300C1978.jpg
What they actually ended up producing looks like garbage by comparison :down: I suspect Feser won't be in fan making business very long :ROTF:
Damn, that concept art looks way better than the actual fans...
I can imagine that they'll do well anyway, though. The Monsta radiator, which is incredibly overpriced, seems to have done well enough.
Plus, there seems to be quite a large customer base that will buy things that are extremely expensive, because they are extremely expensive. This is the business model that german manufacturer Innovatek has been running on for ages. They produce junk and sell it at enormously high prices. Their customers are convinced that Innovatek-stuff is the best there is...
Feser could have the same kind of effect. Since their products aren't nearly as horrible as the Innovatek ones, they might do very well indeed with this business model.
(E: See commitment bias/escalation of commitment on why this kind of thing works)
Harleys are a very good example of this. Scariest bikes I've ever ridden and I've ridden almost everything on two wheels - no brakes, no handling and no horsepower. Only reason people buy them is all the marketing - live to ride - blah blah. Utter crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by HESmelaugh
:rotf:
Wow...Quote:
Each fan comes with a unique serial number you can register online!
I agree I'll stick with my Sans :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehaze
ill be positive here for once: THE FANS ARE THICK SO YOU DONT NEED A SHROUD :cool:
my summary:
worse dampening (metal wires connect directly to plastic instead of rubber like in thhe artwork)
bad colour scheme (what's up witht he 100% clear fan, i want smoke-gray bldes)
less fan blades (worse performance?)
honestly this fan looks worse than the much cheaper 25mm noiseblocker multiframe fans....
i'll stick to my s-flex fans...
LOL $35/fan??? thats crazy, that would be 115 for a tripple rad....thats just ridiculous ill stick with my xigmateks thankyou very much!
hmm i'll buy 3 sflex instead...
Martin has 3 of each on the way to him :), so tests will be done :).
That's very good news! Looking forward to the test-results. :)
you think people willl change their mind on price thoug is the real question? At 35 dollars per pop that out of range I say for alot of folks I mean heck alot of people like the monst, but ate the price tag alone.........than add in fans your will over 370 plus bucks.....Quote:
Originally Posted by bentleya
heh.. I doubt anyone would brag about paying too much for a fan. SilenX comes to mind. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
Yeah, I'm supposed to be getting a few of these.
The 38mm fans have a pretty good cfm/dB ratio, so it'll be interesting to see how something 55mm thick will do. Hopefully a nice smooth quality sound to match.
Anyhow, it'll be a few weeks before I even see them (international shipping) so non of this "IS IT DONE YET" or I'll keep the results to myself..:p:..:D
usually if people are willing so spend this kind of luxury on fans, then most likely they would use something more than a single rad. with dual rad or higher, you're looking at at least $70 + shipping. now that is just ridiculous for fans...
heh never heard that before, had to wiki it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
I understand what you mean but I still find it hard to believe that a $35 fan is going to catch on regardless of performance data. :shrug:
does that picture really say what I think it says.... :shakes: just reaffirms my dislike for feser....
anywho, these fans are going to end up being worse than some of the regular 120mm's we already use and everyone is going to laugh. (my prediction at least) I patiently await martin's videos :)
I agree with your prediction. Heck I am laughing right now! That would mostly be due to the price and cheesy ad campaign. :rofl: Knock $20 off of the fans and perhaps it can make a go. Buying a Triebwerk fan at this price is not extreme...It's RETARDED!Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Wow... those pictures are the least professional things I have ever seen. No way will I be buying Feser until they change that. I swear, you would think a rails developer made those :p:.
I totally agree with you Sniipe.
Godzilla~ RAWR!Quote:
Originally Posted by bundymania
*dont bother me.. im pimping*
:rofl:
Bentlya should render fire coming out of its mouth.
What acid induced trip were they on when they thought this ad campaign up? I'd like to stay away from that crap......hmm, maybe it was some left over brown bag stuff from Woodstock '69. :shrug:
like the guys above, i can't wait to laugh when these can't dominate the fans we already have.
you didnt like the naked picture of the chick from an earlier advertisement :DQuote:
Originally Posted by faster3200
Well strop my Johnson . $35 :rofl::bananal: I think if you get froggy , you'll be getting a big lizard :shocked::hump::shock:
:shakes::shakes:
j
Bundymania, IDK if you took those photos yourself or not but lemme give them a little constructive photo criticism....Being a son and partner to a professional product photographer I feel qualified to say that those are the WORST shots your could have ever possibly used to advertise a product.
Not only can you not see the product in both of them but in the first one the fan is in the far background. Then the second photo has the fan dead center. Is it just me or did someone who has never even heard of the rule of thirds, much less how to focus an SLR or lock a tripod, take those pictures?
I think the one that says "F**KED TODAY?" is perfect. that's exactly how you will feel after buying these fans... :rolleyes:
Does that mean SilenX has been dethroned as the worst fan manufacturer?:rofl:
NaeKuh be carefull what you wish for, i have full res version, i had an email sent to me last week while i was skiing in spain, asking for me to post, glad it got handed down to bundy :)
aw, come on waterlogged... it's better than the "brokeback mountain" ad they had... right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
http://www.abload.de/img/img_8577jopa.jpg
...Friends ?! ;)
There appears to be four missing from the other side.:shrug:
no... paul now owns part of Thermochill. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by bundymania
so id say enemies with a passion.
:D so i better mount some Bitspower Fittings also in the radiator and add a TFC quad, eh ? ;)
Not by much. :shakes: I did enjoy the Fester tubing in the metro sexual earlobe one though, I truly believe that was Mario in the pic.:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghong1970
Am i the only one that wants to see a live action shot of that 2nd fan turned on with the frog there? Ok, probably.
Does the lizard come with the fan??
Quote:
Originally Posted by affiliate13
They couldn't afford the $120+ for the other four.
so people have these in hand and we still don't know if they can scare away frogs?!?!?
I'm still waiting for mine. International shipping takes forever.
Anyone with some in hand care to post a video up close so we can here them? I'd like to know how they sound when undervolted.
IF i can find some frogs i will give it a go :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Penguin
Martin, i'll hock them up them up tomororow around this time, depends what time i get in :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
What RPM's would you like readings of sound at?
I was just looking for a simple video of the fan from the lowest voltage stepped through up to 12V, so preferrably all the way through the range (no particular RPM). I just like listening to how the sound tone changes throughout. No rush though...thanks!:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by bentleya
Im holding you to it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bentleya
Having a little technical difficulty, my psu has decided that it doesn't want to work :(
..or maybe it's embarrassed to be attached to those fans and is refusing to work just to spite you. :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by bentleya
yes it could be that :(, just doing a few tests on it now, just makes loud clicking noise and no power, will do few test if not it's RMA back to corsair :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
HX1000? I had same problem worked for like 2 hours then dead, makes click and a squeak noise instead of booting :ROTF:. Went back to old faithful Tagan bz1100 everything works fine. Debating wether to return for refund or exchange for another, if yours has same prob I think I will get a refund and stick with Tagan.Quote:
Originally Posted by bentleya
I have the 650, as i have no system that needs 1000w, and saves money, i am soldering up my old Thermalfail 500w as we speak so i now got power supply :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehaze
I`ll get 3 fans.
@ $105 for those 3 fans your better off buying a 4770 to get better performance in your computer.... seriously it doesnt make any sense to pay that much for fans....Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterFlex
It dosent make any "sense" to buy monsta rads either yet people cant buy them fast enough, go figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
I agree, it doesn't make any "sense" and certainly doesn't earn any kudos around this post apparently, won't stop me from buying another couple Monstas and .... well, no probably not the fans. But still, I worked hard for half a year and I have every right to flush my money away however I please. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fragger
So, any1 find any online news or reviews on this fans?
DONT THINK people are buying them fast enough I mean what 250 are made or was it 500 frozen has like 100 of them. I have one and I do like it not bad, but gianed only 1C diff between the quad 480 vs the monsta im assuming though the monsta has great heat dissipation, thats assume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragger
I'm preparing for Round 3, but this time I want to do it on a radiator with heat loads applied.
In the mean time I did take a couple of pictures and measurements and this is what's driving me to test thermally.
CFM is a good measurement, but probably not the only thing to consider when thinking about fan performance on a radiator application.
I'm not sure exactly how much dead spot will be removed by the built in 12mm shroud and cone taper, but measuring active area at the fan inlet edge, I measured about 20% more active area than the other two. Since frontal area seems to be so key to performance on the radiator, I'm suspecting this active area will have an equal advantage.
This "Should" amount to a pretty good thermal gain, but the only way to know is test it out. Digging out my old rad test bench, I just realized I don't have an extra pump anymore (gave them all away). Time to order another pump and some thermal sensors, I want to do this testing on the radiator loaded and with my anemometer in place so I can watch CFM levels while I'm doing this.:up:
This is what I'm looking at for what I'm calling "active area". It's the frontal area of the fan that's actively moving air and this is affected by the dead-spots created by the fan hub and surrounding frame.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1036/...reaswithpi.jpg
And a few pics of the fan. It's nice looking fan..
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6291/triebwerk1.jpg
Casting quality is really good
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5702/triebwerk2.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5598/triebwerk3.jpg
Subjectively, the sound quality seems good. It doesn't have any of that motor tick that the San Aces seem to produce at very low volts. The vibration dampeners also work really well at eliminating motor noise.
After I get my radiator testing rig rebuilt, I'll work on getting some test results out.....
Really looking forward for your results Martin! I did some comparison myself , but I'm shy to share as too much bashing is going on for Feser here.
Nice Martin, we will be waiting for round 3 :)
The million dollar question tho martin is whats better?
Push & pull yates Vs 1 tribewerk. (push pull yates = cheaper solution still).
I can already predict the answer.
*hint* im getting rid of my san aces in favor of push pull yates.
push-pull Gentle Typhoons grasshoper, you have much to learn yet :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
the difference between yates and any premium fan is at most 1C.
The noise difference tho is a different story.
But even value wise, i can probably still get 2 yates for 1 gentle typhoon and still down volt the 2 yates for more pressure and less sound then the 1 typhoon can do.
I think honestly if your spending 130 on fans, 260 on a radiator...
Recirculating CHILLER FTW!
Martin i have a favor to ask. When you tests those fans, can you throw a shroud on it also and show difference with shroud.
I know the tribewerk has a built in shroud but @ price of a regular 25mm YATE + shoud, its still cheaper then a tribewerk. And i want to see how that performs.
Thanks martin!
Oh the San Ace with shroud = game overs tho. :X
Infact san aces require a manditory shroud if u want to get nice numbers off them.
I was just talking about the noise level really ;) but I agree with you :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
I'm just glad I have sanaces in my rad sandwich or it would not perform.
Nothing wrong with yates or push/pull for that matter on any fan, just keep in mind the extra sound sources will increase noise level:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
For example one fan that produces 45db on a radiator.
3 fans = 49.8dB
6 fans = 52.8dB
etc..
Here is a handy little calculator for playing around with that:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ad...ibel-d_63.html
If you look at the noise vs. CFM charts, I'm not sure push/pull is nessarily better than a single stronger fan though. If we're having to step up 3 dB for push/pull, alot of fans could get a good 45% more air flow at higher volts for 3 dB more sound. So, you may get more performance from a single stronger fan than two weaker ones in push/pull...it may have a different sound quality though..:shrug:
Don't be shy, I own 3 Feser XChanger 360s and now 3 Monstas! :D Was it the best bang for my buck? Most likely not, :shrug:. In reference to the Monstas, when implemented into my current and ever changing build they most definitely will be absurd! That's okay, I like absurd things, even if they are not a very good idea (see Darwin awards... :rofl:). My point is I like Feser radiators and at the end of the day, even if someone else has all the right reasons to despise them, it's good that we at least have so many choices and individuals will always have preferences (this comes as just a thought, not arguing that anyone has suggested the opposite).Quote:
Originally Posted by *|T2D|*PopovS
Now my preference for Feser radiators may be due to blind brain washing via shiny things and an erroneous mentality to assume more expensive/bigger radiators must be better or (and I tend to assume this by default most of the time) I'm just not horribly intelligent.
Exactly! I currently have ducts going from AC unit to server/computer closet then hot air pulled directly into the attic... and the mini-fridge next to my desk has it's share of beverages of choice. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
Last, as always thank you martin for your diligent research and focused effort. I eagerly await further reading!
That's enough of my "hot air" for now... :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xaxis
HEY I AGREE even with bad customer service on fesers part I still like their radiators two quads and one monsta they perform great like you said not the best bang for the bunk though on monsta but its cool to see a hyooge rad on the outside of the case.
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...s/100_7826.jpg
Heh, everything that TFC produces is an overpriced POS.
Just wait til you have some run-ins with mr. mario the president. He's a colorful fella.
Damm now I can't decide between 36 yl petra's red led with shrouds and 18 Gts withs shrouds on 6 rads ;-) :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
how can you have a run in with him when he doesnt respond to emails or postings :mad::D he avoids everyone at all costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojamijams
Oh thats easy. Just make a post that exposes their customer service for what it is, and he'll be PMing you soon and setting off the 4 letter word filter like a fox in a henhouse.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOCKTHEGLIDE
Mario dosn't have a forum account, thats half why over people post new products.
I have had nothing but good experiences with Feser products and customer service. Emails were always responded to in a timely manner and their products are definitely not pieces of ****. Anyone who says that has not used them.
I'm no fanboy by any means. Just stating my experiences with the company and its products. YMMV.
i have yet to get a pm from mario, and i think i did my fair bashing at them. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojamijams
then again i realized a lot of people find me intimidating. :rofl:
I'm not sure thats the word others would use.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
:ROTF::ROTF::ROTF:
Done more than my fair share of non constructive criticizing of Fester products as well, no PM here either. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
skinnee, I think his soapbox is "growing" again. :ROTF:
Why are people here complaining about price when some have started paying astronomical prices for fittings and tubing? Bottom line is this fan good value for money?
Wow, bookmarked. Thanks that is really handy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
I just thought you like playing Santa by sending testers small truck loads of watercooling parts you've become bored with.:shrug::DQuote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
You and Hondacity both!!:rofl:
Looking forward to your test Matin, I was kind of disapointed on my test setup, but as time was limited, I was only able to compare them at 12 V.
does he not have an email either? Does he not respond to emails through feser the website either? didnt think so :rolleyes: nothing against you bentleya....just the feser people alone. I guess I can assume he does not have a computer or know what it is :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by bentleya
Sorry :shakes:, but a little information, the email you send though the feser website gets sent to martin, mario has a complete different email address.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOCKTHEGLIDE
If you add them on skype or msn you add martin, unless you hyave mario's personal account.
Well, well, well... For those who keep some interest on upcoming fans from TFC, i've just found the official website: http://www.tfc-triebwerk.com/ :up:
that webpage is a bit of a misnomer isnt it? seeing as the triebwerk actually sucks bigtime on radiators.... the web design is kinda cool though
I spent 35 bucks on a fan once.....
and now I have herpes. :(
:rofl::rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco André
"Just found"?......I..don't...think...so :nono:
:rolleyes: Agrered, i got asked to post it and i did'nt :) if you really found it you would of posted in about a month ago, when it first went live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
:up: I don't care how good they are. I got three 120.3 in as push pull config.Quote:
Originally Posted by tw33ter
Sooooooooooooooooo 630 for new fans. SURE
FYI, what I did get done on testing.
I think the sound quality is good, they definately have more of a 25mm fan motor sound. I think the fan blade is just less agressive than some others, so you have to spin more RPM to get the same CFM/pressure level. The yate curved blades are actually a fairly aggressive blade pitch, but that's all a factor in noise level/quality as well. I noticed this same thing with other fans, the more straight gentle blade type fans had a different sound but generally didn't produce as much CFM per RPM. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though...it's more like the gears in your truck or car. Is 5th gear always the best gear? No, there's an ideal blade pitch for probably every CFM and RPM level. This is what I see in alot of fans too, they tend to have their own little specialized areas of being optimal and CFM/RPM is no different than gearing and generally something that's a bit of a give and take with noise level and particularly with noise quality/tone.
Here are the videos I worked up for your own comparison to CFM. Just keep in mind CFM does not necessarily equate to radiator performance either. When I did my earlier fan testing the UK3 produced more CFM per RPM than yates, but in radiator testing it appears the larger fan hub diameter creates more dead spots and this relates to less performance per CFM.
Triebwerk TK121
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq-65qnTwAk
Triebwerk TK122
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp_DWfCH0UU
San Ace H1011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If2TPAJWQRQ
Gentle Typhoon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhudtc2dTG8
I see qualities in all of them. The Triebwerk have a very smooth sound, not necessarily the lowest level, but the sound is predominantly air movement and lower tones on the motor. The GT makes the least blade noise, but this also makes the motor noises much more pronounced and buzzy. The San Ace has a pretty strong ticking that I don't care for at very low volts, but it really does well at higher speeds.
Visually, I think I like the Triebwerk fans best, followed by the San Ace. I just like the larger industrial look to them. But that's all pretty subjective, I'd suggest looking and listening to the videos and make your own judgement. When testing these fans on the Monsta radiator recently, I liked the sound of the Triebwerk better than the Yates or UK3. I also played around with some Koolance 140's, and they do perform well, but the noise wasn't something I liked.
When it comes to fans, I find it pretty hard to quantify quality. You really almost need a full set of three fans and test them personally on a radiator to really understand if you'll like them or not...:shrug:
There's too many variables to pin down and then there is the biggest factor "Noise Quality" which is different for everyone and very different from noise "Level". This is why I resorted to the videos, it's probably the best way to present the sound tone and gives every one person a chance to make their own judgments...not what I or anyone else likes. Hopefully it at least gives you a rough idea what you might expect, although I think ideally it would be 3 or more mounted on a triple radiator to give the full noise response. I find some fans tend to have more harmonic noises between two fans than others. Some fans seem pretty good with just one running, but when you run 2 or 3, you'll start hearing slight RPM variations that create a fairly pronounced harmonic noise that's annoying as well.
Pretty hard to test fans...that's all I can say...and I've had my filling and them some already..:eek:...:D
Great testing, Martin. I already ordered me 3 of the TK-121... they should arrive during the first week of July. :up: