What is the deal with various 4+1/8+2/8+1 Phase Power Design
on AMD AM2+/AM3 boards.
What are the pros/cons of 8+2(8+1) over 4+1.
Is 4+1 (Asus M3A78-T) still ok for 940BE when overclocking
or should I consider 8+2(8+1) boards?
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What is the deal with various 4+1/8+2/8+1 Phase Power Design
on AMD AM2+/AM3 boards.
What are the pros/cons of 8+2(8+1) over 4+1.
Is 4+1 (Asus M3A78-T) still ok for 940BE when overclocking
or should I consider 8+2(8+1) boards?
8 + phase when implemented correctly requires less power to acchieve clocks,its cleaner power, it's not as stressfull on PSU, and is considered to have a longer longevity. I might add there are very few true 8 phase designs. Most are split 4 + 4.
4 + works, if properly implemented and kept cool, if not it will eventually blow up when pushed hard.
one of the few 8+2 i know of is the Asus Crosshair II formula
Well the CPU (and GPU) will be under water so no additional
airflow will be coming from the CPU fan, however, I do have
a 250mm fan on the case side (Sharkoon Seraphim case).
I doubt I will overclock the CPU by much (if at all) so 4+1
should be fine?
What is the verdict on Asus M3A78-T pwm design? Ok or not.
Or should I wait for the M4A78-E which has 8+1 design?
Isnt the M4A79 8+2 as well? Or is that one a 4+4 like mentioned earlier in the thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by cdawall
Preety sure they are all 4 + 4, ATI made a true 6 phase back in the 939 days.
asus lists the crosshair II as a 8+2?Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
yah they list alot of phases as 8 + 2 but I do not think to date anyone has made a "TRUE" 8 phase, most of them are 4 + 4 + 2 and they call them 8 + 2phase.Quote:
Originally Posted by cdawall
The largest phase I have ever seen was a "true" phase was 6 phase by ATI.
so then what is the big difference between 4+4+2 and a TRUE 8+2. I understand that is has to do with voltage ripple and the more phases the less voltage ripple.
there is no difference because 8 + 2 doesn't truly exist.....Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxRacR17
haha, ok let rephrase then, what WOULD be the difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
cleaner power delivery to the cpu and probably no vdroop.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxRacR17
Allright, let me clear things up.
I have asked a similar question long time ago over at amdzone forums.
http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewto...140825#p140825
quote:
Time to whip out my electronic circuits textbook...
The topic is not that simple, an 8-phase or 10-phase supply won't always be better than a 5-phase supply. The switches and other parts used in the 8-phase supply you mentioned are not identical to the ones used in the 5-phase AMD boards. The 8-phase parts probably cost less and are much smaller. Both phase supply setups can meet the same requirements regardless of how many phases you use, it just depends mostly on how much you want to spend per part, how much space you have to work with, heat dissipation, your typical design problems. The 8-phase switchers can be cheaper and smaller parts because they will not be stressed as hard as if they were in a 5-phase setup. Also, the phase IC's AMD uses are special, in that they can dynamically change the number of phases depending on how much juice the cpu is asking for, so there is probably no leeway for motherboard designers to create a gimmick board with a 16 phase power supply to woo the enthusiast crowd. I remember reading that the AMD IC's weren't designed for anything more than a 6-phase setup because anything more than that is completely unnecessary for the K8 and K10, and the only reason for having the option of 6 was for extreme overclocking. Considering this, I'd assume that unless you OC the chip enough, it's going to be using 5-phases under load with a 140 watt chip, so 5 will probably be overkill for 99% of the market. 4 and 3 phase boards are meant be paired with a budget processor or a more power friendly Deneb.
end quote
this should sum it up it perfectly.
the dfi m2r hast 6+1 phase design... and i think its true 6+1 ;)
Unless the board manuf. states how many phases a board has, how can you tell? Count the mosfets or chokes?
Well.. to really know you need to check what VRM controller chip is being used and then pull out the datasheet.
The Vdroop is shouldn't have anything to do with how many phases there is. There are couple reasons for the droop. Most common is the voltage drop caused by copper (resistance) loss in the motherboard. Second is that some PSU have "programmed droop" where voltage drops linearly with function of current. (IIRC, Intel specifies this method for its CPU's to improve dynamic load behavior.)
Droop can be compensated if you take the VRM voltage feedback at the end of the load chain. (Like directly under the CPU.) The drawback is that during dynamic loading the voltage does overshoot and undershoot more than with "programmed droop". This is caused by the limited loop bandwidth of the VRM control loop where it can not respond fast enough for the changed load conditions. Ultimately the LC-filter used in all VRM outputs has a pole frequency that is very low when compared to the required load change speed.
8+2 phase power on Asus M4A79T Del. (thats their word)..
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/776...shot057pm2.jpg
Yeah, that is their word and hopefully its not false advertising. How could we tell for sure?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumo
Try overclock voltages in bios, see if there vdroop or instability.
Some mobo can't take high vcore for long benching session.
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8...shot046uw2.jpg
I'm sorry, I dont know what I'm looking at in that picture :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumo
this is the inside of Dumo's toaster, the part you are looking at is responsible for judging whether the toast is 'brown enough'Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumo
it works this out using this equation,
http://www.thetechrepository.com/att...1&d=1171912547
:rofl:
mmmmmmmmmmmmm........I love me some warm buttery toast :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by soundood
What usually works is counting the number of chokes.
e.g. 10 chokes = 10 phases = 8 + 2 most likely
In the picture of the asus board from Dumo, they are labled YAGEO 1R2
or TRIO R47 in another picture.
Nice pic of magic smoke production. :eek::shocked::mad::(
I just want to have fun in this amd section. Just don't start nothin with me. I respect all here.Quote:
Originally Posted by soundood
Btw, its a burned mosfet.
Ouch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumo
your not alone ,,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumo
Ive made many bagels using a model 770/790gx (ultra self cleaning disposable convection oven) smoke signals when the clean cycle is done:rofl:
If you get a 8+1 make shure it has Ramsinks or at least some type of cooling if there is not a heatpipe from the get go.Quote:
Originally Posted by CandymanCan
Ive pushed 4+1 and @1.65volts it isnt pretty compared to 8+1 mobos.
For $100 - $120 there are several new 8+2 mobos that are fantastic. Most of them will handle 1.55v-1.70v fairly easy and qiute stable under preshure.
Now Under $80 you can find some Nice older 8+1 will handle about the same up to 1.6v with a High TDp Oc. You need to have the Fets properly cooled. The 4+1's can still Pop with high volts even with w/B cooling.
Im surprized i have not Popped the TA770 with 1.65v when the 9950 was @3.5ghz. That Mobo Hurt my ears it Screamed so loud:rofl:
The Ones that dont come with a heappipe just need to be improvised with Ram sSinks or a Fan/Sink cooler of some sort.
The Open Box Mobos EGG,, Are insane right now. Most Mobos will just need a CD or manual . Most the Ones ive ever recieved were exactly that an Open Box with Everything inside:D
None of these are true 8 + 2 phases......its a gimmick...
There still 4 and or 6 but just name them 8+1 or 8+2 what ever correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
I mean if you count the fets chokes , at least that what it seems to be anyway.
yes they are 4 and 6 phases, no true 8 phases on any of them....I would just pay more attention to the quality of the components used.
You mean to say my Asus M3A79-T Deluxe which clearly states on the front of the box that is it "8+2 Phase Power Design" is only a 4 phase?! That makes me quite angry at Asus.Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...shuman/001.jpg
So this is a blatant lie?
There seems to be a lot of confusion about ASUS 8+2 power circuitry.
Both Crosshair 3 and M4A79T-Deluxe use L6740 PWM controller made by ST Micro.
It's a 4+1 phase controller, which means power regulation is done in 4 phases for core voltage and in 1 phase for NB voltage. ASUS uses double inductors for each phase to split the load to more components and thus increase longevity and decrease temps. It's not a true 8 phase regulation, the same as for example Rampage II Extreme PWM being a 8-phase, double inductor design, not a 16-phase PWM.
http://www.3dnews.ru/_imgdata/img/20...wer_supply.jpg
Whether it is a blatant lie depends on what does "phase" mean for you. ASUS and Gigabyte seem to think that inductor = phase, but rest of the world knows that "phase" is "one part or portion in recurring or serial activities or occurrences logically connected within a greater process, often resulting in an output or a change." (Wikipedia). Phase is not something that exists on motherboard PCB, it's a parameter of the voltage control process. So for most people, yes, ASUS and Gigabyte and many other manufacturers lie about their PWM designs.
EDIT: The same design is used on M3A79-T Deluxe.
Yep good info man.....
I believe the gigabyte is a 6 phase......but they go about 6 phase a diff way.....
Hello guys, i'm not to expert in phase power design, can one of us please tell me how man phases for CPU have the board in the picture?:confused:
5 CPU+ 1chipset ( or4 4+2?)? The board is ASROCK A790GMH/128. I'm planning to buy one, it's PWM seems to be solid even though it has no cooling..
And. i have heard that Asrock MB overvolts the voltage a bit, quite strange...
Opinions if this 90$ can hold a X3 720 at 1.5v?
http://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/A790GMH128M(Enlarge).jpg
Judging by the components used I would not plan on breaking any records....An 8 pin input at the PWM would not hurt......seems they only used 4pin....they are likely overvolting to comnpensate for vdroop....
I'm not planning to break any records , i'm planning a decent overclock 3.7-3.8GHZ no more than 1.5v..Quote:
Judging by the components used I would not plan on breaking any records
Actually from a 90$ Mb it will be quite good...
Gigabyte 790FXT-UD5P has similar 4+1 phase, double inductor design with Intersil controller (I cant remember the exact model)
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/55589/gig...790fxt_pwm.jpg
Ahh that must be the intels they run 6 phase on then.....
maybe 1.45v is possible.. biostar am2+ can not go far above 1.45v :) Asrock and Biostar pwm looks similiar. 720be 3,7ghz is doable on v1.425 there you have hope :)Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
xdan i'm not sure, but at a first sight of the motherboard i would say that is a 4+1 phase pwm.
The 6th "phase" is for the 790GX chipset.
I would also say that the cpu VRM is pretty weak because it has only 2 mosfets on a phase. Nowadays a good motherboard has 3 or 4 mosfets (4 on ASUS motherboards ex: M3N78PRO motherboard).
+1 for what ?,if the six is for chipset? memory has it's PWM.Quote:
would say that is a 4+1 phase pwm.
The 6th "phase" is for the 790GX chipset.
That has no Amd 790GX/FX/XT chipset and neither SB 750 or 710.Quote:
Nowadays a good motherboard has 3 or 4 mosfets (4 on ASUS motherboards ex: M3N78PRO motherboard).
This Asrock is the cheap 790GX(SIDE PORT MEMORY)+SB 750(ACC) i've found.
For what i want the cheaper Asus mb is 30$ fo for 4 mosfets it doesn't worth. And Biostar MB i can't buy because i can't find near bye.
No, you didn't understand:
The CPU VRM is composed of:
-4 phases for the CPU(cores) (4 coils + 8 mosfets)
-1 phase for the memory controller embedded into the cpu(1 coil + 2 mosfets)
The A790GMH/128MB is the chipset of the motherboard with diverse functions. It's vrm is that 6th pair of 1 coil + 2 mosfets.
I reffered to ASUS M3N78PRO as having a solid CPU VRM for it's price and an example of a motherboard with 4 mosfets on phase.
For OC AMD790XX chipset + SB750 is the best option.
Most PWM controllers for AMD platforms have 4 phase regulation for core voltage and 1 phase regulation for NB and L3 cache (uncore) - that's what 4+1 means.Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
EDIT: ninja'd by nr4
So much talk and none about MSI's DrMos?
MSI is one of the top tier companies that have refused to join the phase marketing game. How would a 5 phase DrMos fare vs the Asus/Giga monster phase power?
Ok, i understood, thank you very much nr4 and xoqolatl for explications:up:, anyway i will still buy that board because i'm making an ultra performance budget system -220$ i mean the A790GMH/128-90$, an X2 550(instead of x3 720)-103$ may be i get@quad?!, a 2GB DDR2 1066 kit of memory-30$. And i want that video on board because i'm waiting the 4770 to restock, or the 4730 to appear .....
Still if that it's not hapening soon i will buy an 4850 at 110$....:up:
According to initial reports and tests it has blown up ( under extreme testing )......however not being one to follow the crowd I will test it myself with proper insulation and a bios that works right this time......I personally have had no issues pushing it hard on air or water.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropicity
OUCH! I better be careful with mine then. I guess it should be ok for "normal" overclocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
One thing I do notice is it DOES run cooler.
Dr. MOS is, in short, a technology where a pair of mosfets (high & low) and a mosfet driver are integrated into one circuit. Instead of three (driver, mosfet low, mosfet up) you have one. They have nothing to do with phase count, but MSI says they run cooler and output less ripple. MSI is not the only company that uses integrated mosfets; Gigabyte has them too, for example on GA770T-UD3P.
probably phase 5 means 4+1 after all..Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropicity
Are you sure about that? I've never heard or seen this model. Could you provide me a link to it?Quote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl
Here you go: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/...ProductID=3096
I used it in my Regor and Callisto review.
http://r1.pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/...d3p_angle1.jpg
http://r1.pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/..._ud3p_gora.jpg
Here's the PWM area with integrated mosfets:
http://xs140.xs.to/xs140/09234/gb_770_pwm940.jpg
Dude, I believe its just marketing of normal mosfets. Maybe better components but nevertheless it aint driver mosfets.
Here are some shots of Driver Mosfets. Notice they have combined the 3 components into a single chip for each phase?
http://images.bit-tech.net/content_i...se/drmos-8.jpg
http://live.msi.com.tw/marketing/drm...w_photo_03.jpg
You are right, these are not driver mosfets. My bad :slapass:
But I'm sure I have seen such fets somewehere not on MSI board...
No worries man. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl
Another company that has used non traditional power circuits is DFI. I believe they were one of the first to use digital pwm mainstream and it seems EVGA has started to do so too.
Just curious how DrMOS and Digital PWM stack up to traditional mosfets since Asus and Gigabyte seem to swear by them (in huge numbers) in their top range boards.
ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3
is that a true 8+2 Power Design?
http://lab501.ro/wp-content/uploads/...-12V-power.jpg
http://www.ixbt.com/mainboard/asus/m...o-usb3/vrm.jpg
here's some data on the design:
[EPU (ASP0902) PWM + PEM (ASP0910) PWM + uP6282AD Driver]
ASUS M4A89GTD Pro/USB3 Intel CPU from the mainboard, the power supply have been used primarily by a combination of EPU and the PEM CPU up 8Phase, memory support 2Phase configuration has 8 +2 Phase Power Supply. Also, Phase 2, the MOSFET and 5 per uP6282AD MOSFET driver is a combination. EPU processor clocks and voltages depending on the load, lower power consumption, ASUS EPU-6 engine that can be reduced (CPU, memory, chipset, HDD, VGA, paenkeonteurol management) is the key.
they say..
ASUS new improved ASP0902 series PWM chip, with PEM form 8 +2 Phase Power Supply System.
http://file.bodnara.co.kr/webedit/ha...o/img_6242.jpg
to me, 8+2 phase design is to evenly shared the load over a parallel channel
so that each MOSFET only take up the load half of what 4+1 phase design is taking;
hence, this would lower the operating temperature of MOSFET while user pushes the voltage when overclocking.
afa8ik there is not true 8 phase PWM......they are all 4+4+2 or whatever....thats how it works.......ati once made an extremely well laid out true 6 phase back in rd 480 580 days.....
Quality phases mean more than quantity
The Legend Speaketh (TM)Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
This has gotten me to read thru old Grouper/Manta/Sturegon threads, but I could only find 4 phase PWM´s. Wich board hade the 6 phase PWM?Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
That is the same controller used by Biostar for the TA790GXE 128M and presumably all the other 4+1 boards they released at the same time. The TA890FXE is now on the L6717 controller. My experience with the L6740 from my TA790GXE 128M was that it was best to disable the active phase switching when overclocking. With phase switching enabled I could crash/shutdown the board stopping a Prime95 run whereas the same frequencies and voltages were perfectly stable in the same scenario with phase switching disabled via the BIOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Foyle
Feels like I am nagging, but how about the ASUS Crosshair IV Formula? Is that also a 4+1 + 4+1 phase design?Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
And what about those Intel board with 24 and even 32 phases are those 6 and even 8 pairs of 4-phase designs? :shocked: Seems kinda stupid to me... Not disbelieving you, I am sure this kind of marketing works great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
IMO, if they make the power phase parallel, it helps when you up the voltage to a certain level since the current were shared by more MOSFET, those MOSFET definitely would run cooler than lesser phase
ASUS/GIGABYTE's 8+2 phase is indeed a 4+1/4+1 phase design. It was an AM2 socket design contstraint and the board is only able to have a true 4+1 phase design. That didn't stop manufacturers from doubling up though.
As for my board's 6+2 design and BIOSTAR's 6+2 design I'm not exactly 100% sure on how they achieved that.
some PWMS chokes and caps count does not equal phase ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNizze
thats not 6 phase...........Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2
*scratches chin*Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
The Biostar FX board is 4+2. Although the stock cooling solution is possibly worse than what I had modded onto my TA790GXE 128M 4+1 board the FX power supply is still much stronger in practice. The 4+1 board I have can handle quads fine but not a X6 at high voltage. The TA890GXE is 4+1 too but judging from other users here it is definitely improved over the previous generation of 4+1 boards Biostar had.
I think you are all reading way to far into this. Everyone's been on the phase kick since the MSI with 4+1 kept blowing up. The key is to keep the PWM's cool. I've pushed my GD70 pretty hard but I've always had active cooling over the NB/PWM area and I've not had any issues. I plan on pushing it harder when I get around to picking up a Thuban before replacing it with a 890FX board. There was an article, I believe on bit-tech, a while back regarding "Phase" design. 4+1, 4+4+1 etc.
Less is more can apply here as long as the quality of components is high, and to those worrying about your boards being 4+4+2/1 whatever and not true 8+2 dont worry and just enjoy your board and the overclock that comes with it. :D If this thread was never made a majority of you would of never known the difference and/or care.
6-core?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlueChanell
All I was saying in the other thread is that MSI should NOT need a fan over the NB/PWM area. They design those heatsinks for a reason. It doesn't say in the manual to buy a fan separately and stick it over them. It's supposed to stay cool. If ASRock, ASUS, Gigabyte, ECS, DFI can do it then why can't MSI?
If my memory serve's me well DFI had issue's with pwm's blowing up on the M2R boards. The one's that were stable, were as rock solid as you can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2
On the MSI if you run the CPU stock, or push light voltage I don't think you'd need a fan but if you're pushing heavy clocks and volts you should probably throw some cooling on there just like any other component that you're overvolting and clocking. Especially on air. It just seems like good practice to me but idk :/ ymmv.
Edit: Forget to tell you what I was running. It's a 965BE 140w, if you read my earlier post more carefully you'll see I mention moving to a Thuban. I'm been doing some other stuff so it's not high on my priority list atm.
i beat the hell out my 790fx-gd70 & 965be - over 1.54v 24/7 & constantly over 1.6v benching, never w/ active cooling on pwm's - and stable as a rock. they were always hot as hell too because they were hiddin out of the case airflow behind my 120mm rad. the gd70 was prolly the best board ive owned regardless if it has 0+1 phases
Anyone care to work out the wattage on an FX-55 at 2v/3.92GHz max (albeit idle) and 1.68v/3.45GHz 100% load running F@H 24/7? I get 183w, which was stable for MONTHS without the proper cooling on the PWMs - and that was only four phase. It really isn't the NUMBER of phases but the quality. Now take George's example of a P4 3.4GHz EE Gallatin core at 4600MHz and 2.23v and I get 288w, again done on 4 phase back then.
What's the TDP on an X4 965BE C2 at 4GHz 1.54v? And an X6 1090T at the same speed? I don't understand why the number of cores affects anything if the TDP is similar. Please someone enlighten me :(
the thulban parts have a better design than the denab, the l3 and IMC (or the cpu-NB on the cpu settings) make up most of the TDP and amd specs teh TDP for a batch of parts not the individual. so i would guess that they have an over estiment on the 965 c3 and that the 1090 comes close to 125W, but at least with my chip amd gave it a VID of 1.3V but it can do stock at 1.18V so it is lower watt than amd is saying it is and they over volted it. for amd TDP is a measure of the cooling needed not the power consumption so to really tell u need a board that can read the amps going to the cpu (i know that the gd70 can in the bios it would be nice to see some1 tap that setting.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Oj101
ASUS is boasting a True 16+2 power design !!!
http://usa.asus.com/FeatureList.aspx...tSu5m&F_ID=278
"The breakthrough technology of 16+2 phase VRM design is bringing to the ASUS motherboards. 16+2 phase power design (16-phase to vCore; 2-phase to vDRAM/QPI controller inside CPU) can reach high power efficiency, dispel heat generated by VRM module effectively, and lower more temperature compared to other VRM solution. With the high quality power components such as low RDS (on) MOSFETs, Ferrite core chokes with lower hysteresis loss, and 100% Japan-made high quality conductive polymer capacitors, ASUS 16+2 phase VRM design also ensure longer component life, minimum power loss, and help to reach the superior overclocking score ever than before."
It sounds like that is aimed at Intel, not AMD.
http://www.evga.com/PRODUCTS/IMAGES/...13-TR_LG_5.jpg
is this a 4+1 Power Design or 3+1?
EVGA 113-M2-E113-TR...
thats 4+1, count the chokes near the cpu and there are 7 that means the NB has 1+1 and that means there are 5 left so 4+1. but why would u want an NV chipset POS with a low performance IGP and that is unreliable when u can get a cheap amd chipset board for like $60 or less thats equivalent
just wondering if that EVGA nForce 730a board will run a CPU cooler than a Gigabyte (AMD 760G chipset with only 3+1 Power Design)Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
the Gigabyte board for some reason reports a bit higher temperatures on the same chip than when ran on a board with a so-called 8+2 Phase Power Design... (ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3.)
Basically, going from the ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 [8+2 :: 2x 4+1] to a Gigabyte GA-MA78LM-S2 (rev. 1.0) [3+1] my AMD Phenom II X2 545 (Callisto) increased the temperatures using the same thermal paste and HSF..., so I was wondering if putting the CPU into an EVGA 113-M2-E113-TR [4+2]
...
Unless the mosfets were so inefficient they were dumping tons of heat towards the socket it wouldn't have anything to do with that. I suspect there is a difference in voltage delivered (whether or not the difference is reported correctly to software).Quote:
Originally Posted by erek
each board reports temps differently, and if u have a good pwm u can undervolt. but i would stay far away from NV chipsets ive had to many deadQuote:
Originally Posted by erek
ones to ever want to see a new one
anyone able to find an actual 8+1 (8+2) power design?
I'm interested in MSI's DrMOS too. Their 8-phase design may be a true 8-phase on the newer AM3 boards right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropicity
8 phase claims = 4+4 redundant.
If we are lucky we might just might see a real native 6 phase soon, of course someone will make it redundant and claim 12.
How about those 24Phase power design from Gigabyte, do they really help in overclocking ?
No. it's not a real 24 phase its just many redundant phases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demo
Is the Crosshair V Formula (AM3+) a true 8+2 Design?
7+1, with one CPU and NB phase doubled.Quote:
Originally Posted by erek
The Sabertooth info says 8+2 as well is it the same setup as the Crosshair?
The M5A99FX Pro says 6+2 what setup is that?
Same configuration as on Crosshair boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead
6+2 on ASUS boards is a real 6+2 phase VRM.
No doublers used.
I'm glad this thread is still going. So lets talk about fail.. I've overclocked AMD (:yepp:) since Duron multiplier pencil tricks, but being superlazy and often not thoural, I managed to blow mosfets on my GA-MA790x-DS4 this time. Here's what happened.
MB: GA-MA790x-DS4
CPU: X6 1090T 3.2GHz (most of the time at 3.6-3.8GHz around 1.35v ish)
RAM: Kingston HyperX 1066 @ 1066
PSU: OCZ 600W (4x18A @ 12v)
The mobo has 4+1 phase VRM WITHOUT heatsinks. I've ran 1090T @3.6-3.8GHz successfully on it for quite a while, not realizing how much strain x6 has on VRMs. But hey it worked with out any hiss coming from VRM and voltages were under 1.4v for vcore + I didn't care. Until this point I have never cared about VRM-s (yeees, that's pretty stupid), but also haven't gone for medium-high oc voltages.
Right, recently had some incentive to OC over 4GHz. Long story short - 4GHz was easy on 1.45v, but for 4.2GHz I pushed vcore to 1.5v.
It posted, it got to windows, I was smiling. Then I started prime95 and went for small FFTs. Strange snake sounds coming from VRM area. I got suspicious. Btw still no heatsinks on them :D, man I'm an idiot (so you wouldn't have to mention).
Looked at hwmonitor for a sec and vcore was doing 1.5-1.53, like really jumping around. And before I could close prime95, everything crashed. I think prime ran for a good 10 second - not bad for a suicide run.
So now I'm on a Pentium 3 slot 1, rocking at 866mhz with 256MB sdram. Posting here cuz people gotta cool your VRM-s! I never wanna see naked mosfets again.
What I'm wondering is that has my phenom survived. Do you guys know what usually happens in fails like this? Only mosfets burn or do they take chokes, caps, cpu etc with them?
I already ordered M5A99FX with 6+2 (heatsinks n stuff) and some mad 2133mhz+ DDR3 which speeds are the next milestone for my dear phenom. Gonna be fun.
Also going to get an additional phenom for further testing and fun on the gigabyte board. I wanna practice reflow soldering, but first gotta find replacement mosfets. Planning to change them all for something stronger. Got tons of copper blocks waiting for mods as well. Being a bit newby when it comes to fets, gotta ask you smarter folks what do you think about replacing them and is there a way to test them on board.
Original mosfets datasheet pdf and what I'm thinking of replacing them with datasheet pdf. Source drain has a bit more amps on it, but I guess that just gives strength when overclocking? Latter which im planning to do.
Thanks for bothering to read :)
Are there any actual 8+1 designs out yet?
:confused:Is the load balancing between all phases equally or do they have it spending more time on that doubled phase? I really don't understand the differences / benefits from doubling phases over keeping them separate.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt
Gamers Nexus is claiming this ASUS Crosshair VII Hero X470 is a 10 Phase Design, do you agree or disagree?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4PEgofGfz4
https://i.imgur.com/Xlc6HxU.jpg
They claim it is 5x2 +2. That is still better than a non doubled 4/5/6. There are two ways doubling work. That board works with having one phase go then the second sub phase on the doubler goes, then the next phase starts. You can also run them so the doubled phases go at the time and you can turn off the doubling for low power applications. So, the way the one on the crosshair works is like a 10 phase but with less fine control. That is perfect for cost effective overclocking, but not great for low power consumption.
Sorry for being curious here but what other X470 and B450 (not leaving the B series out) motherboards, would you recommend for anyone wanting "Low-Power Consumption" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
Price isn't the issue here, I am never looking for anything that is cheap but what is appropriate for running either a 2600X or a lowly 2400G cpu's (overclocked and under-volted).
I would grab anything with a real six phase, check the buildzoid video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8T2gzIkw78