Tripple digit cascade

Building it last week.
http://fugger.netfirms.com/cas1.jpg

Sealed up and turned off (digital meter reads -90c) pressure tested to 2k psi
http://fugger.netfirms.com/cas2.jpg

400w load
http://fugger.netfirms.com/1077c.jpg

#2 already being built.

We skipped the second stage R410 and went straight to the suva-95

I also picked up my cold head on ebay to complete my helium cryo setup.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2560891724

Cryofridge conversion pictures comming soon.

Americold 1/2HP R410 also comming soon, should be done by friday.

Fugger- what kind of compressors are these, they look like low temp danfoss SCxx

Wow, great stuff. What did you pay for the SUVA-95? I only heard exorbitant prices on the stuff (>$100/kg)

yep great going fugger,now just get it on a chip.:D

A cpu isnt steel, its silicone that will crack sooner or later :\

..... boys in Japan have proven that anything
lower than -120C is futile. But I'd say anything
in that temp rea is Hella cold.

holy §§§§ -107 @ 400W load... now that's some real xtreme stuff there

makes me ashamed of my stock Mach II :( :slapass:

*goes off to read more refrigeration books...

holy h311 -- very nice work.

do you have 40 gallons of conformal coating, 60 lbs of di-electric grease and 6 inch thick neoprene on standby for the upcoming on-CPU test?? :D

Very nice Fugger. I Hope it works out well for you.. :)

Danfoss SC12MLX w/start and run caps, pictured in the first pic.

I got the bottle of suva for just under $100. that bottle is at 600psi. iirc the PT chart said 550psi at 30c. The compressor can reach ~70c

Yes, its going on a P4 CPU for benchmarking.

Its running right now, we did a few more power failure tests and will be putting a 1200Kva (100 Minute) UPS on the first stage as a failsafe if it loses power durring Comdex. It will cool the second stage to prevent it from blowing a seal or the blow plug.

Wow -107 @ 400W Nice job Fugger and Reggie. :thumbsup:
Whats the unloaded temps??

Here is the CPU

http://fugger.netfirms.com/32ee.jpg

good job man.

isnt that a little out of that meters acurate range? did you use the jumper in the back so it reads c and not f?

get a better meter. that one only reads k type, and cannot be calibrated. it is only good to -30

http://www.fieldpiece.com/clamp-meter.html

We did not expect the meter to go past -99

Its not 100% accurate but it is good enough for goverment work.

Its a new probe mounted on the evap

Quote:

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It will cool the second stage to prevent it from blowing a seal or the blow plug.

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So when you power down this system you have to let R508 out ?

If we were to shut off both compressors with the 508B side very hot there is a very high chance it will blow the plug or a seal. Not sure if the shell and tube or the flex line is the weaker point.

R507 compressor is plugged into battery backup and R508B is connected to non-backup power. Both are on the same switch. When power is cut one compressor is made to stay on.

The shell and tube condensor will remain down at -40 ~-50 (max capacity) and keep the 508B compressed long enough for the compressor to cool down to a stable temp.

I will get another pic with the UPS isntalled and the head frozen over. we seperated the hot plate and reconnected the power to the fan seen in pic 2 face up w/blade off. We stole the power for the hot plate to load test.

We never let the 508B out, I only have 4 pounds left.

ok, is that f or c?

Everything done is in C

The only time I use F is for the weather outside

-107 C = -160 F :slobber:
-107 F = -77 C

Either way its some serious cooling especially if its under a 400W load

Even of more interest is the mobo that came with my EE.

EDITED: its a 82875PBZ

just some stuff on it I have never seen before.

mini SO-DIMM slot under the CPU retention

white coil tower at the base of the DDR

jumpers INT1 and INT2 50/60 and bottom 60

pics of the board?

b.s.

r-95 wont get that cold, especially not with those little compressors. -95c is about the best you could do. please get a better thermometer.

dont make me build a three stage.

fluke 51's are nice and are like 150$

Quote:

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Originally posted by captaincascade
b.s.

r-95 wont get that cold, especially not with those little compressors. -95c is about the best you could do. please get a better thermometer.

dont make me build a three stage.

fluke 51's are nice and are like 150$

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you had to go and bust his bubble.....:(

i wasnt going to say a word...

So what's the likely temp ?

I sense some fear, heh.

The meter is all I got atm that goes past -50c so Ill leave it up to the PT chart -88c boiling at approx ~5 inches of vacuum.

Ill conveniantly blame it on a bad algorythm after -30c so being off 10 degrees wouldnt surprise me. we were surprised to pass -99c to be honest. Unless I sporing for a new fluke or you let me borrow yours, its all I got.

You didnt bust my bubble, my capacity is insane.

Maybe I should put up a disclaimer of 5% margin of error. Better yet, how about I put up some nice scores and we call it even.

You see what I am running :banana:

Well seems like you have the cooling, and also seems like you got new toys there , ORB is wide open for you!

Go Fugger Go Fugger Go :rocker:

... if I hit the spec of the PT Chart I'd wet myself.

Very nice Fugger:toast:

Enough cooling though, lets see some Benchmarking:D

OPP

Fugger,

Did you get a card cooler running yet?
You need to work on your FX Ultra score. I passed it with my Radeon.

OPP

Fugger,


AMAZING!!

:slobber:

C

They're surely some ppl that should fear what you are accomplishing.... it seems just too awesome! :D
I personally, Fear the new scores you are about to post! Go get them!! :toast:

Quote:

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Originally posted by FUGGER
I sense some fear, heh.

The meter is all I got atm that goes past -50c so Ill leave it up to the PT chart -88c boiling at approx ~5 inches of vacuum.

Ill conveniantly blame it on a bad algorythm after -30c so being off 10 degrees wouldnt surprise me. we were surprised to pass -99c to be honest. Unless I sporing for a new fluke or you let me borrow yours, its all I got.

You didnt bust my bubble, my capacity is insane.

Maybe I should put up a disclaimer of 5% margin of error. Better yet, how about I put up some nice scores and we call it even.

You see what I am running :banana:

---

yeah im scared, scared of having to work another week to out cold you.

another tech at work has that meter, ill compare the 2 tomorow.

i just dont trust that meter, and niether should you.

my cascade runs at 10inches vacuum with a -92c evap. that is with a certified calibrated thermometer.

and you say loaded with 400w load? dude, im sorry but you have got to be mistaken.

the largest compressor danfoss makes is only rated for 264 watts at -25c.
There aint no future in the front.

Great work Charles!! Now give that CPU hell!! :toast: :banana:

Fugger, get a low stage expansion tank in , *now*. Don't let the static pressure rise above some 10 bar / 150psi. The compressor shell is probably the weakest point, and you don't want that to blow. Especially not at comdex.

Recover the R508B by pulling an old small refrigerant or propane tank vacuum, and pump the R508B in there. Reverse the process to get most of it back into the low stage again.

An old receiver connected with a piece of captube to the suction side of the low stage will do nicely as an expansion tank.

Also, get yourself a pressure switch for the low stage, and a simple tempcontroller (Eliwell EWPC-901, Dixell XR30C, Carel IR32, those things) to switch on/off the low stage.

Damn man, running an R508b cascade without any safety devices (I don't call a UPS a safety device; the high stage might break). You must be at least as nuts as I am.

i was curious about that load too....Cascades can't handle high wattage loads at very low temps. And what exactly have you got that produces 400w of heat?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Xenogias
i was curious about that load too....Cascades can't handle high wattage loads at very low temps. And what exactly have you got that produces 400w of heat?

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yeah i mean, what do you got a flame thrower pointed at a single evap?

cheap 110v hot plate at lowest setting is 400w, big c clamp holding it on.

I think it maxes at 1500w

Not sure how accurate it is


Dabit, Ill print your advice for reggie and let you know the reply.

I know it doesnt have a expansion tank on the low side atm.

Whats the surface area of the hotplate and the surface area of the evap?

]JR[

hey i stole yer idea with useing a hot plate.

anyone know how much heat 1 of these puts off, i think mines for a crock pot. i got it set up with a temp control set to 100c. do you think thats enough? will this be a good way to test?

There should be a plate on the back stating how many watts it uses.

heat plate is about 8 inches in diameter, evap head is 2 inches square.

Im running my cascade now :banana:

Everything up and running now, did some 3D runs at 4.5Ghz and this thing needs more voltage than 1.95v to get any farther.

I can boot and run and some xtreme speeds.

I gotta dial in and boot to my bench drive

holy §§§§!!! 4.5ghz stable??? can we get some pics of your insulation job, or is it only ok to leave on for bonzai runs atm? whats your highest screenie?

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1510760

No kamakazi runs, I can loop 3Dmark

Outstanding Fugger !!! :toast:

I noticed your 3dmark runs were "all the way through" eye candy and all so the system must be totally 3d stable ! ;)

Wen you get thorugh playing with MY CHIP be sure and package it up nicely so it doesn't get any bent pins or anything in transit. :D

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1511005

Quote:

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heat source area 50.26548246
heatload 400
watts/area 7.957747155
evap head area 4
heatload on evap 31.83098862

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So u were cooling ~32watts assuming the heatload is uniform across the hotplate, which they usually are in my experience.

If you set the hotplate to 1500watts youll get just about what you need ~120watt

Quote:

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heat source area 50.26548246
heatload 1500
watts/area 29.84155183
evap head area 4
heatload on evap 119.3662073

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Looks good

]JR[:banana:

Awesome 03 score, but when are you going to start benching 2001 again? I would really love to see 29K fall :D

I reached the 600 core for 2K1, I can loop the benchmark at 4464Ghz on my EE now. I need more than 1.925v to run 3D above that speed. My Cascade does not drop more than 1 degree durring the benchmark runs.

Insane capacity as advertised.

Looks like some A-hole submitted a bugged score and is showing 29048 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7180820 with a TI 200. Come on Fugger, get that real 29K score up there :D

lets see a pic of the temps on a run.
what kind of core temp are you getting?
how are you measuring your 1 degree?


your -107 is false, you know that, yet you still showboat it. i worked hard on my system, and ive been completely honest. the other ones i built that weren't happy i would put "system unstable" or in your case id put "thermometer completely off"

and by the way i tested a meter like yours compared to mine. my read -82c yours read -72. so good news maybe its really running at -117c, lol.

once again man there aint no future in the front.

I welcome you to come to vegas to measure it yourself, watch, feel, listen and ask questions at comdex.If you want to swap meters I can do but but I am not going out to buy another one because you dislike the reading it has from a cascade built by an retired HVAC engineer.

Maybe you might learn something from the engineer who built mine.

My PEV responds to the load quickly, cap tubes do not. You were running a cap tube right?

Gotta get back benching, came out to post new scores.

ok well, ill just go fire up one of my -150c revcos, stick my probe in and call it a super computer freezer, post the pic and ill be the coolest guy ever.

dude, the company i work for is called los angeles CASCADE. we're called that because thats all we do, cascade systems.im not claiming to know everything, but in my 10 years working on cascade systems (thats constantly everyday) i have never ever seen such a wonder as -107c useing 2 compressors with 95 in the second stage. i grew up with these freezers and know what im talking about. i can take your revco apart down to nothing and put it back together

im not tryin to be a jerk and its not sour grapes. just deal with it, your temp is wrong.

It probably is wrong. I thought we went over this.

I have a complete helium cryo setup

Maybe Ill turn on the baxter and let it get down to temp and lock a new probe inside when it gets down to -85c

my dad could beat up your dad.

Its ok mickey, I understand what he is saying. but I think my avatar is like a stick poking at him :stick:

It will be changed soon enough as I am sure you want to know what my block looks like.

Quote:

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Originally posted by captaincascade
hey i stole yer idea with useing a hot plate.

anyone know how much heat 1 of these puts off, i think mines for a crock pot. i got it set up with a temp control set to 100c. do you think thats enough? will this be a good way to test?

---

I use a 160w condensate heater pan. I started up and tested my scratch project. The condensate heater pan was at 170degF, while I maintained a -45degF evaporator.

I've got pics of all the testing and the completed project. I think I'll get around to posting them, today (on another thread).

We want some pics of the system running!! :) but thats REALLY some nice temps :)

yeah, is the system insulated well enough to leave on for long periods of time? We're all anxiously awaiting pics. I'm most curious about how its insulated considering all the problems people with dry ice have...and yours in colder.

Well, whatever temps it is, it's a damn nice system.

Very well insulated, the right hand sides of both compressors is cool, below ambiant.

No bubbles in sight glass, we charged first stage under full load.

Quote:

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Originally posted by captaincascade
my dad could beat up your dad.

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:lol:

Quote:

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Originally posted by FUGGER
Its ok mickey, I understand what he is saying. but I think my avatar is like a stick poking at him :stick:



It will be changed soon enough as I am sure you want to know what my block looks like.

---

Thats about right. I dont care about your computer racing, though its nice it has a purpose and i hope my systems do what is expected. i race freezers, and this guys usin a broken stop watch. I dont mind competition, but itd be nice to see how much further i have to go, acuratly.

And cmon the "my dad could beat up your dad " comment was pretty funny.

captaincascade,

you need to go to XTW today with your Cascade rig. We need to try this Athlon 64 on it again.

OPP

Captain, you're just having more fun than the law allows, aren't you? :D

I have family in your area (Lawson Refrigeration in Irvine). I'm tempted to run out there and join in the fun... LOL

"Sits in the dark watching & learning. he has found a home":devil:

Captain, I also doubt FUGGER's temp measurements, but based on the numbers he is able to come close if his evap is really good, and hist load in the 80-140W range.

-107C evap temp would mean at least -112C SST, especially at these low temps. At -112C, our low side pressure is about 0.18 bara (~5.5 inch Hg). With an SC12 running at 60Hz, this is a suction pressure which is possible. It can be compared with a prommie running at -52C. Hard, but not impossible.

Still, to maintain this, he would need to condense at about -40C, thus with his high stage maintaining at least -45C at load. Now, this is hard for an SC12.

Thus, IMHO it is possible (read: not impossible), though I expect real evap temperature to be around -95C .. -100C.

cmon FUGGER, give us some more details about the thing. High stage evaporating temp, pressures, etc.

One more question: how do you do the low stage refrigerant expansion?

-97 is the absolute coldest ive seen with a 2 stage r-95 system. That was on a revco i rebuilt, and that was on the thermocouple that leads to the inlet to the 2nd stage evap directly sodered to pipe. -93, -94 is the coldest ive ever seen box temp. calculations and disney charactors aside, i do realize im arguing a dead point. i don't like to consider myself god, more like one of his children just like you. only difference is i was sent here to die for your sins. A great pestalence will soon be upon you. Repent!
join me in my not understanding why people would not believe i know what im talking about.

I really work at radio shack, live in my moms basement, and collect baseball cards.

yes gary i am having to much fun. lol

cmon you know its pretty funny guys.:-)

Quote:

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Originally posted by captaincascade
join me in my not understanding why people would not believe i know what im talking about.

---

No doubt about that.
Still, -100C *is* possible with R508b in our systems, so fugger might indeed run this low.

To put it differently: have you ever seen a commercial single-stage reciprocal compressor R404a system running below -45C? Many here do it.
[/QUOTE]

CC, I was told I am not running straight 508B in second stage.

No problem for my 15+ hours of benching this weekend. Both compressors run cool and the whole suction side was very cool (iced at one point till we adjusted the PEV)

From my limited experiance I can comprehend that using a cap tube on a cascade will not produce the capacity needed just the insane temp range to fire up (been there, done that)

I dont want to give too many specs out because if I am wrong you guys will run me into the ground and I do not need an extra orafice expansion at this time. Reggie (HVAC engineer) will be online soon and be able to answer questions and correct my mistakes.

Dabit, high side R507B not in vacuum, no bubbles in sight glass. Low side PEV on the Evap head feeding a custom made distributor inside the evap head. Center pressure point retention mech for NO board warpage. four corners are not used. (gotta love a big C clamp)

You seen the base of my block in my avatar.

how can you see if there is bubbles in the sight glass? isn't it frozen?

are you useing a sporlan zz txv?

oh, and hey op, how far does my temp warm up on a load like -78c max? somethin like that. i had to rev it down so he could overclock the amd64. i was just bypassin a bit from high to low like a capacity control.


its not possible with those compressors, can you give me that?

It is possible to break away ice layer from the sight glass on first stage at any time. The second stage is under insulation and can be pulled back to expose. Do you need pictures.

I am a newb to know how far these compressors will go, but I do know they are operating very nicely.

picture a wave of electicity..... up and down ....up and down....
just a wavey line ok

now what the run cap does is creates another wave that doesnt go down and up as much and kinda keeps it uh .... not so wavey


it just kinda sorta uh,,, makes it more dc than ac i wanna say kinda...... less amps to make the waves,,, get it?


hey you removed your "how does a run cap question"?

I offered for you to come look at it early, could have saved some bandwidth and aggravatoin if you took me up on my offer. I even offered you $100 towards gas /shrug

oh well, lets see what yours can do. Eric wants to drive and Im cool with that.

we're doin what now?


did you understand the run cap?

Hey Guys, this is becoming sorta like, well, a food fight....Fugger, I'd like to come look at it for free! I could use a road trip! :D

Quote:

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Originally posted by Hobocrow
Hey Guys, this is becoming sorta like, well, a food fight....Fugger, I'd like to come look at it for free! I could use a road trip! :D

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yeah i know, im done makin an as outa myself. i just let my humor get carried away sometimes.

Not a problem, comes natural to some people. JK!

Just think, I would have bought you a prime rib dinner.

My cap question was lost when I was editing my post, not sure what happened. just noticed was gone.

Run cap drops the LRA, the compressor will function more efficiantly.

Don't forget, you still owe me that prime rib dinner. mmmmmm :D

Quote:

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Originally posted by FUGGER
Not a problem, comes natural to some people. JK!

Just think, I would have bought you a prime rib dinner.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by captaincascade
picture a wave of electicity..... up and down ....up and down....
just a wavey line ok

now what the run cap does is creates another wave that doesnt go down and up as much and kinda keeps it uh .... not so wavey


it just kinda sorta uh,,, makes it more dc than ac i wanna say kinda...... less amps to make the waves,,, get it?


hey you removed your "how does a run cap question"?

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Hi Skipper!

I know your MO. ;) So I assume there is a lot of PM'n going on here, that the rest of us in the public bandwidth are not aware of.... but just for some insight in regard to the run cap scenario (only because I have been doing som reading)...

In a DC circuit, the capacitor acts like a storage device, in which an applied voltage can be stored for discharge upon the reverse of the polarity of the circuit. You see, in a DC circuit, no current can pass through a capacitor.

In an A/C current (application) however, the capacitor acts as a resistor (would act in a DC current). The start winding in an A/C current motor is of a lesser resistance conductor (thinner wire) than that of the run winding. The start winding cannot tolerate full voltage (current) during the continuous operation of the motor (other wise it would burn out. The capacitor acts as a "resistor" in order to reduce the "current" through the start winding, and allow it to produce an electromagnetic effect during the continuous operation of the motor, in order to increase motor efficiency (increase torque). There are certain other notes regarding the effect of the capacitor in the A/C circuit to explain, but I won't take up bandwidth (because if I were going to explain it... it would take a lot!!!! ... of bandwidth :p: )

I am sure that DaBit :p: can elaborate on the discoveries of Mr. Faraday, in regard to the application of capacitors and their inherant characteristics in A/C and D/C circuits (which are very dissimilar, and interesting nonetheless). :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by herefishy
Hi Skipper!

I know your MO. ;) So I assume there is a lot of PM'n going on here, that the rest of us in the public bandwidth are not aware of.... but just for some insight in regard to the run cap scenario (only because I have been doing som reading)...

In a DC circuit, the capacitor acts like a storage device, in which an applied voltage can be stored for discharge upon the reverse of the polarity of the circuit. You see, in a DC circuit, no current can pass through a capacitor.

In an A/C current (application) however, the capacitor acts as a resistor (would act in a DC current). The start winding in an A/C current motor is of a lesser resistance conductor (thinner wire) than that of the run winding. The start winding cannot tolerate full voltage (current) during the continuous operation of the motor (other wise it would burn out. The capacitor acts as a "resistor" in order to reduce the "current" through the start winding, and allow it to produce an electromagnetic effect during the continuous operation of the motor, in order to increase motor efficiency (increase torque). There are certain other notes regarding the effect of the capacitor in the A/C circuit to explain, but I won't take up bandwidth (because if I were going to explain it... it would take a lot!!!! ... of bandwidth :p: )

I am sure that DaBit :p: can elaborate on the discoveries of Mr. Faraday, in regard to the application of capacitors and their inherant characteristics in A/C and D/C circuits (which are very dissimilar, and interesting nonetheless). :)

---

wow man thats some good stuff u just spilled out there....how the heck do u know all this? how old r u? i mean thats some techy stuff that most people dont know ne thing about(me for one) and some how u put it in words i could understand...ever thought of teaching that stuff?;) nice work

You're not going to win this one, captain. On a normal cap tube system, the cap tube is sized for maximum capacity at a given temperature. If you lengthen the cap tube you sacrifice capacity for lower temps. If he has a lengthened cap tube, then his temps are possible. He can get those temps, especially under no load, given a longer than normal pulldown period.

BTW, I thought the 'my dad could beat up your dad' thing was hilarious... LOL

I did some overclocking yesterday at LA Cascade.

I first tryed the Athlon 64 3200 and Gigabyte on CCs -80 plus cooler.
First, the A64 ran into problems with the combo of cold temps and high voltage. couldn't apply much over 2V without the chip freezing up. Did manage to run 3D at 2820Mhz at 2V. The cooler went from -81 to -76 under full load. We had OPPAINTER style contact with the chip, basicly achieve the perfect mobo Bowing :D
Next the gigabyte screwed us at 279fsb and above as far as overclocking the Graphics card. Somthing at those high FSBs messed it up.
Basicly the AMD64 is worthless for this cooling.

Next we did the P4 3.2 and Asus P4C800.
The chip did much better. The cooler ran –86 to –80 load with the P4 doing 4.6gigs 1.88V. The P4 doesn’t have the heat that the 2V Athlon has.

OPP

herefishy i was refering to how it looks on a old school spectrometer, that the way i was taut.

Quote:

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Originally posted by MickeyMouse
OPP, what no 3D on that 4.6ghz P4 ;) that would have been nice..

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Only used stock 9800 card on the Intel. The 404a was starting to moisten up the card after all the hours it was on.
The stock 9800 was getting 22k at stock speed, this was just clicking on benchmark button one time and letting it run all the way through. Also, the OS was for 3D03, ie had directX 9 on it. I'm thinking would would have been very close to 27k with optimal OS and overclocked Rady, maybe 26.8 or so.

OPP

Quote:

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Originally posted by FUGGER
CC, I was told I am not running straight 508B in second stage.

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Then what?

Quote:

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Reggie (HVAC engineer) will be online soon and be able to answer questions and correct my mistakes.

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I can't wait :)

Quote:

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Low side PEV on the Evap head feeding a custom made distributor inside the evap head.

---

Now what is that PEV you are talking about? Is that a pulsing expansion valve such as the Alco EX2-00? If so, how is superheat control done?

Man, lots of questions. I hate it when I put all my details online for others to learn, while they keep things secret :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by herefishy
I am sure that DaBit :p: can elaborate on the discoveries of Mr. Faraday, in regard to the application of capacitors and their inherant characteristics in A/C and D/C circuits (which are very dissimilar, and interesting nonetheless). :)

---

I sure can, but I don't want to spit out the entire story again. Maybe I should make it an article on my website or so.

I will keep it simple this time. Imagine a wheel with a rod attached, just like the old train steam locomotives you see in teh western movies. Now imagine the mains A/C as the force moving the rod forward and backwards. If we only have this stick, we never know if our wheel starts turning, and if it does, what way. This main wheel+rod is our Run winding. And it exists in reality, only our rod consists of magnetic fields.

So, we need some extra help to get the wheel moving, and to produce some extra torque. This is where the start winding comes in. Imagine this as an extra rod on the wheel, some 90 degrees (a quarter of a wheel) shifted. Now if we pull correctly at the two rods, we can ensure that our wheel starts turning, and that it has the correct direction of rotation.

The problem is: we must push that second rod a bit differently from the main rod (exactly 90 degrees shifted would be nice). This is where our start capacitor comes into play. The start capacitor 'delays' the mains sinewave for a maximum of 90 degrees to generate the two forces.

If the motor is running, we don't need the extra rod anymore since the inertia of the 'wheel' will keep it moving, and it only needs to be pushed to compensate for the energy losses. This is when we can switch off the start capacitor. (CSIR motors, capacitive start, inductive run)

However, sometimes it is desired to have some extra torque. This is where we use a run capacitor; it generates a continuous second force to our 'wheel', increasing torque. (CSCR motors, capacitive start, capacitive run)

Some motors (usually A/C compressors) don't use separate run and start capacitors, but only one capacitor which stays switched in all the time (PSC motors, I think it is Permanent Start Capacitor or so). These motors are designed and optimized for fairly constant load, and thus the 'pushing forces' on the 'rods' can be optimized for the load.

3-phase motors don't need all this hassle. A 3-phase system consists of three sinewaves, each shifted 120 degrees. Thus, a 3-phase motor has a 'wheel' with 3 'rods' attached, each shifted 120 degrees in angle, and each pushing with the full force. This provides minimal energy consumption, maximal torque, and simplicity in motor design leading to robust motors.

Well, that's the simple explanation. :D

But very well put!

Sure every1 can understand that dabit...

]JR[

the PEV is a half ton pressure expansion valve that responds to load. Excat model unknown. Superheat is done by hand, I adjust the PEV after checking the suction side of the compressor.

You mean a constant evaporator pressure regulator? Those valves which you set to a predetermined evaporator pressure? Hmm, that sounds not as a superior expansion method either, and it certainly doesn't do anything on superheat control. I still haven't found the 'holy grail' in expanding low stage refrigerant.

I have been considering to convert a TEV to a heat motor operated EEV, or to use a pulse width modulated expansion valve. Both methods have their advantages over captube, but they also have their disadvantages.

Excellent OCing and cooling there guys :)

Seems that I really need to get workin on my cascade too :D

I've got one cascade freezer that might do the trick with some modifications. It has r502 on 1st stage and 'COLMIX' (what ever that is I dunno) on 2nd. Ive measured air temp of -91C inside the box with the fluke. That is rather good I'd guess?
I've opened it up a bit and found a knob for adjusting 1st stage temp. Scale goes down to -50C (it was set to -40C when I measured the -91C airtemp).

Now since there appers to be several experts in the forum I'd like to get your ideas on what I should do with this thing? :)

For instance can I just ript the parts off the case, take the refrigerant out of it, connect new CPU evap on it (with flexible tubin of course) and put the gas back in?

That would be at least a good start...

Check to see if the second stage condensing is done in walls of the fridge like mine. You might need a shell in tube condensor if it runs in the walls.

very nice clocks there opp on that 3.2, dare we see 5ghz soon?

fugger, your heat exchanger is in the bottom of your units box. Notice the thickness of yer interior wall on the bottom of the box?
Its this big funky coil of tube in tube. When i went to school at the revco factory we got to see those along with the entire esembly line. I think so-low is the only manufacturer that uses the design for wich you speak.

K, I will check it tomorrow. I was going to pull it apart but runs too good. I didnt see the second condensing unit in the base so I assumed the used it like conventional freezers and ran it in a layer of the freezer wall.

Fugger,

I'm no expert, so I can't speak to certain issues. I also find your temps suspect, but you have admitted that they are probably off. However, no one can deny your scores and you have done some wild stuff with that setup.
Congrats on your accomplishments! That's the bottom line! :toast:

Please incorporate some safety features into your cascade. Really man, that should not be ignored and should be done right away.

dudes right

Yeah, by "setup" I meant all his hardware, not just the cooling. Having access to some goodies that few others can lay their hands on doesn't hurt. ;) Bottom line is he is keeping Xtreme in the limelight and that's a very good thing for the site! :D

36 hours on cascade now, a few swap overs of hardware and its running so nice. Its getting a steel cover this friday.

Well, all temp controversy aside, the results speak for themselves, that's some damn fine stuff FUGGER.

And I'm with TheDude, get some safety measures on that puppy, would be a beehatch to lose it ll in some way.

But again, that's one hell of a fine piece of...work.

(Go on, admit it, you thought I was going to say ass.)