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Perkam
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Perkam
looking good, Im not sure about the 'AMD Mainstream Gaming' having SLI/Crossfire.
Wouldn't just having 1 better performing card work well there?
For the silent one how powerfull do you want it?
theres a nice "Leadtek GeForce 7600 GS SILENT 256MB GDDR2" clocked at 400/800
or even an "XFX GeForce 7600 GS Extreme Edition 256MB DDR2" clocked at 500/900
hope that helps:)
Ed.
|EDIT| god thats a mess^ just a minute...
I wanted to do silent this time but i just erased it because then I'd have requests for turion x2/merom rigs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieate
So I'm focusing on desktop rigs only. For Mainstream, mainstream sli/xfire is what both nvidia and amd are aiming at and frankly the fun you have with two mainstream cards is amazing. ;) Plus with dongleless xfire quickly becoming the future, the X1800GTO xfire was a must add in :)
Both Intel Mainstream rigs have E6400 conroe because of less fsb required to reach 3ghz plus difference between e6300 and e6400 is $30 for higher multi :) Plus both have same models because due to the small price difference there's no way to justify an having different ones seeing the small price difference between e6400 and e6300 and the big $90 price difference between E6400 and E6500, hence E6400 is ideal.
Perkam
mainstream mainstream should be 2gb cheap instead of moderated price 1gb i think that kind of rig will have more befenits from a cheapo 2gb than 1gb moderated price...
dito on the crossfire/SLI at mainstream gaming.
Cheapest 7600SLi is like 150 euro so times 2 thats 300.
i can get a 7900GT for 256 :/
so id rather get 1 7900GT wich will beat the SLI 7600GT in alot of games and is cheaper.
(this si EU prices for me dunno bout US prices)
Might also give examples of wich motherboards are good boards for the categories ?
Like what are good allround boards what r good clocking boards and wich boards are unstable and buggy as hell.
I saw the demand for 2gb ddr2 in the mainstream, hence the "futureproof" mainstream rig.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
Mainstream mainstream rig is for those who want a decent overclocking experience on a budget ;)
Perkam
No good mobos out yet for `either AM2 or Conroe or at least no variety yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream
I'm sticking with mainstream sli, just changed the names around a bit. It may seem useless, but mainstream sli has been underappreciated here at xs lately. Did everyone forget 6600GT SLI ownage on the orb ?
Perkam
i thinks is better if you make a poll with price point for each category after that we can check best value perfomance parts for each category
I would have to make a poll for each rig there, so that's besides the point...plus if I didn't have mainstream sli, the two mainstream rigs would be far too similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
Perkam
Intel FutureProof (7900GT/X1900GT/Intel E6400/Fast 2GB DDR2/Third Party Air)
I would replace that E6400 with an E6600 because of the 4MB cache :) That makes it even more futereproof ;)
915 doesn`t support Presler or SmithfieldQuote:
Intel 915 Presler
915 is the new non-VT value preslers coming out in q4, not the chipset :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
Conroe the architecture itself is futureproof...if more cache was factor, I'd have recommended a presler which all have 4MB cache ;)
Perkam
i dont agree with the budget gaming rig.
you advise a a64 over a sempron. the difference between 256kb and 512kb cache is small. and your paying about 40-50$ for it compared to similair speed sempron. that money would be much better suited for upgrading gfx card.
also. i think its worth noting that the best price/GB drives right now are the 250gb drives.
BIG EDIT: Sticking with A64 Single Core AM2 for second value rig...you HAVE to see these prices !!! :eek: ...and thx for the heads up on the hard drives :)Quote:
Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa
Perkam
I liked the idea of the silent one :(
also for the Intel Value, seeing as this is for future rigs the upcoming 915 or the 920,
which should be cheaper by then, just seem to offer so much more than the 805.
Ed.
Building...
Perkam
Good Eye...adding in now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
EDIT: Done :) Thx for the help. Shaved off $125 with that and other changes :)
Perkam
AMD Value and Gaming on Budget rigs added to first post :up:
Lemme know what you guys think.
Perkam
SLI/Crosfire good for ORB yes, good for actual gaming no not for the price.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
yeha if u got 1 7600GT now ok add a 2nd one after a while but when ur building a complete new PC going directly with Crossfire or SLi on a mainstream/budget game PC id say no.
Simply cause the added 2nd card doesnt justify the price for the 2nd card when gaming.
That 2 7600Gt score wel in 3dmark isnt the main thing for people when building a gaming pc on a budget.
crap the gaming on budget is SO CHEAP and it should work nice for almost every game out there at high 1024x768 just fine
Gaming pc on a budget is in the value section. I've renamed the rig to Mainstream benching for clarity :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream
Leviathan, yea the gaming for a budget rig looks good...and it looks better now @ $749 :) I gave the assumption that you have spare cd drives lying around so that's $50 off ;)
Building XPS Killer now... :p:
Perkam
Good stuff! I like this.
One concern. WD > Seagate?
edit: Hmm looking again at budget gaming, 16MB cache is a bit tasty. 7200.9 Seagate or WD 16MB, guess it depends.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148111
edit2: 300GB for $10 more. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148131
Dell's XPS 600 Dual Graphix: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...XPS600F4&s=dhs - $3354 (Ha !)
Check the first post for AMD AM2 XPS Killer :D
Perkam
chechk this one perk http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231073 same speed same timming same brand less money lol
edit http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131011 this mobo or at least this chipset mcp 590 for the XPS killer should be better
Already researched that. According to gskill rep, ZX is stock memory, HZ is overclock memory ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
EDIT: The MSI mobo was chosen due to no issues in installation etc. Check out the reviews for the asus am2 board...they're filled with problems. Apparently bios hasn't been given a chance to improve yet.
Perkam
ok but im not saying exactly tat model lets find an am2 mcp 590 perhaps just put dfi as a brand there afaik is the one designed by oscar so it should be a killer mobo
edit: perhaps that memory fits in the gaming budget if you use the 160gb sata hdd and you will have 2gb in that system making it a real killer system
That's true, but the 160GB (hd for xps killer will always be two for raid 0) is only a few dollars less than the 250GB model, which actually satisfies the same requirement of an XPS killer seeing as the real Xps 600 has 500gb. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
AMD XPS Killer is up in full format !!!! :woot:
Perkam
Brainstorming Mainstream Rig...
Perkam
xps killer should have
1 74gb raptors new model
1 400gb wd or perhaps the 250gb
1 PA160 AX 50z MP05 and MP01
Actually you're right. I was originally hoping to put a water cooling system but decided not to because the original xps wasn't water cooled.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
So yea if you have any ideas for a whole w/c kit, I'll list it seperately :)
You have a good point on the hard drives too...lemme see what I can change there.
PLUS !! Mainstream Power rig is now @ $999 :woot:
ive seen some guys here using that case with water one is maxx and one is another guy that used 1 PA 160 let me find all the parts and ill post the links for you
the idea is to have a XPS killer in price perfomance and cooling
cpu block
http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpproliedu.html 65$
gpu block
http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpungpuwab.html 45$
pump
http://www.petrastechshop.com/aq50in12pu.html 75$
rad
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...&cat=76&page=1 90$
tubing
http://www.petrastechshop.com/7id5odmagepu.html 0.3$
extras
http://www.petrastechshop.com/1odtf1and7id.html 2$
http://www.petrastechshop.com/madeficap.html 9$
74gb raptor and 400gb hard drive added.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
For the w/c setup...you sure the pump is going to be enough for an sli system ? Plus, I think the case will need more than just 30cents worth of tubing :p: Not to mention chemicals etc etc.
Also, what exactly is cooling that rad ?? :confused:
Perkam
yes the pump is fine the rad is a 160mm im sure it can handle the 3 things without major mods in the case well you can add 60cents of tubing you need just destiled water no thing else
but you can always PM maxxxracer and ask him i tought in something small easy to install and practical you can always put a HE 120.3 or a monster core a iwaki and storm in there but i wanted a balance price/perfomance in all my ignorance about WC :p:
Looking good...
But I would still go with the single card solution for the Intel " mainstream gaming" rig, as that would allow for upgrades in the future, making for better future-proofness :)
Best Regards :toast:
LOL Fine !! :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by DTU_XaVier
I'll change that when I get the chance.
Perkam
For now I'll take your word, if only because of how much you've helped :)Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
But yes i'll invite a few w/c gurus over for some price/performance watercooling pwnage.
Seperated the Intel info from the thread. Once AMD is done, i'll make a seperate guide for Intel.
Perkam
perk why you dont use the gskill ZX DDRII 800 pc 6400 in the AMD mainstream power get the 160gb hdd sata and use onboard audio and you keep the same price point you are looking now but you have 2gb @ ddr 800 i think is better than ddr 667.
Yes better get maxxx over here he will give a nice WC setup for a nice price he is the best in this subject
i have some ideas for the hello xip rig
amd am2 athlon fx 62
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145033 this memory
DFI 590
2 new raptors 150gb raid 0
1 500gb storage
1 raptor 74gb (just for benching? )
pc power and cooling 1kw psu
lian li g70 case
Just a suggestion mate :)Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Saw it suggested a few times before, and just wanted to chime in with my 2c :)
Best Regards :toast:
One thing I might suggest is the Xclio 450w PSU
or the Fortron 400w PSU
The first PSU for the budget rig doesn't have any PCI-e connectors.
Looks cool but just a question, do you offer any kind of support for the hw? :P
I think most of the cost is there.
thw HW has warranty support yes the forum will give you support and 1000 times more accurate than dell tech support also ppl that buys this systems has some knowledge
and still is cheaper and better than most sytems you can buy out there from dell alienware etc
Anyone who buys a rig for $2700 should know how to register on a forum :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by NiCKE^
You can subscribe to online support groups (paid ones) for computer hardware for a LOT cheaper than $1000 ;) (the difference between the xps/killer rigs)
Perkam
Good Advice, Fortron 400W it is :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jumanji969
Lev, can't dump the sound card for mainstream rig, and neither can I offer lower hd space than the gaming on a budget rig (that has 250gb too ;) ) plus 2gb of ddr2-667 isn't half bad considering it's not really for the overclocker.
Though I haven't finalized it yet, that's why its still not in the first post. Good advice ont he XIP rig, but that I wont be building until a tad later.
Perkam
but i dont know if you run into dividers using the 667 memory isnt am2 suppossed to use ddr2 800 ?
In a worst case scenario, I'll give it 1GB of fast DDR2-1000 which should be cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
Perkam
Lol at that, wouldn't the 2GB DDR2-800 probably be better in the long run? Congrats on the XPS killer, I should show this to a friend of mines, who wants an XPS instead of getting one custom. What's the use of puting the PhysX card in there? From the reviews that I have read, it is next to utterly useless. For the WC, I think maybe the Danger Den D5 instead? It's quieter and I think about same performance. Btw, the new guide is looking great man, keep it up. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help with the first one, was busy building my own rig lol :stick: .Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
The physx card is party of what Dell uses to distinguish the xps, hence its added in there. Plus the XPS killer is supposed to be faster, cooler and more innovative than the xps 600, hence the physx ppu (i myself was waiting until it hit $149, but we had to add it in at a startling $280, which had to be balanced out elsewhere).Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari_freak
W/C Rig is still undergoing review, I'll take the danger den d5 into consideration.Quote:
For the WC, I think maybe the Danger Den D5 instead? It's quieter and I about same performance.
Np Np :) You were a great help in the first one and these guides do not get built without support from all those who replied here :)Quote:
Btw, the new guide is looking great man, keep it up. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help with the first one, was busy building my own rig lol :stick: .
Perkam
ferrari frek if you check the Wc guide by maxxx you can read D5 50z are about the same but the 50z is better it run cooler afaik and draws almost nothing of power
You have to admit, getting the DD05 opens up a lot of variety of retailers over the current block, even if we have a good setup right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
As for changing the mem on Mainstream rig, I can only make a change that keeps the price steady on the psychological $999 mark. If it goes any higher, I can't add or subtract anything ;)
Perkam
petras sell the pump 50z and all you need except the rad the rad you can get it from DD site pretty easy all prices in WC are about the same across the board i can assure you ive been looking the last month
I meant not everyone might be willing to use their credit credit card on petra's ;) I'm sure the prices they have are very reasonable :)Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
But yea I'll leave it as it is for now, seeing as it seems to be a good overall aquaxtreme kit :)
All MAINSTREAM RIGS COMPLETE !! :woot:
For all those wanting better hardware for the mainstream power rig, the mainstream benching represents ALL the no compromise choices that you can subsitute into the mainstream power rig if you wish :) Just that I had to maintain the $999 price level for the power rig :)
Basically the mainstream benching rig is the mainstream power rig if price wasn't a concern...meaning the best choice for the mainstream :up:
Perkam
Why no Opterons? Are these systems taking into account OC ability?
Processor:............Opteron 148 & 170
Motherboard:........DFI-Ultra D
CPU WaterBlock:....Silver Storm G5
Memory:..............G.Skill 2GB PC4000HZ
Storage:..............WD 74GB&40GB/Seagate 200GB
Sound:................Audigy 2
Graphics:.............eVGA 7900GTX 512MB
Graphics Cooling:...Maze 4 Acetal
Case:..................CM Stacker 810 (modded)
Power Supply:......Enermax 600W Noisetaker
Monitor:..............CRT 22" 21" Viewable
CD/DVD:..............Plxtr 716SA/Sny 52X CD-RW/LG 52X CD-RW
Total Cost= I don't want to count, cause I might have a heart attack :-P
Satisfaction of build= Priceless
Nice work there Perkam. I can't wait for the Intel version of this seeing as I haven't had an Intel system for years. Keep up the good work.
why no X1800XTs? The 512MB is $299 and the 256MB is $239 as of 6/1/06 on newegg
with AA & AF they are faster than their 7900GT counterparts, and they have image quality to boot(hq aa, hdr + aa)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102007
256MB X1800XT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127180
512MB X1800XT which actually has a rebate AR $269.99
i will have to say that this guide is effin awesome! thanks perkam!
For the Hello XIP rig, I have a suggestion for the RAM, but am still having a hard time believing those latencies :eek:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231077
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
D'oh, just noticed they're AM2, I'm dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by HiJon89
To HiJon and Phelan,
All rigs in this guide will be ddr2. Unfortunately, for future compatibility purposes, DDR1 is dead as far as this guide is concerned.
Twisted and bobdole, thx for the kind words :D I'll see what I can do about the X1800XTs. My only concern is that ATI has officially stopped production of R520 chips in favor of R580 chips, so I have some concerns with future availability seeing as whenever I make this guide it is with the intention to have it "valid" for at least 3 years (the run of the previous guide).
Ferrari Freak, The hello xip rig will have the fastest ram, but i'm not out to make a $5000 system. The cost of an FX-62 and two top notch video cards will be $2000 without anything else !! :eek:
Plus I'm announcing two more rigs for both AMD and Intel editions. First, the XPS Renegade Killer will have two 7950GX2s inside and second, a rig between the $1500 to $2000 range will also be announced to fill that gap.
Perkam
I know, just saying my system will keep me humble for a while :-) Even if its only DDR1Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Thermaltake Big Typhoon is apparently not compatible with AM2 Rigs...so for now, it has been replaced by the Arctice Cooling Freezer 64 Pro which is compatible with AM2.
For the XPS Killer, the CNPS9500-AM2 was chosen though the link won't be available until it hits retail.
Perkam
if you're contemplating throwing watercooling suggestions, please please please use maxxxracer's guides. he already has suggestions for every pricepoint, form factor, and volume needed; if there isn't one, one could easily be whipped up.
did you consider Scythe Mine?Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Didn't know the scythe mine was a good hsf.Quote:
Originally Posted by high5
Will add scythe mine to Mainstream benching rig.
PLUS FOR ALL YOU VALUE UPGRADERS ... I'm going to try to reduce the prices of the value amd am2 rigs even more, just cos I know they can go lower.
Perkam
AMD I AM XIP Rig has been updated with this:
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...150-161-03.jpg
Plus only 1gb is there to ensure benchies are run at 1T.
Perkam
1 gig of ram isn't XIP... 1 gig is just weak. 4 gigs is XIP-worthy.
All benchers bench with 1gig.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody_Sorcerer
The only variation on this I'm waiting for is two sets of ram for XIP rig.
One set for the best latencies
AND
One set for highest fsb.
Perkam
74gb raptors that is weak we need 4 150gb raptors in raid 0 and fx62
I would hope that someone shelling out nearly 5 grand for a rig would use it for more than just benching... if they did, they either need to give me some of their money or set their priorities straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I'm not about to recommend a $1000 proc that loses out to a $183 one. The 5000+ is a good compromise while keeping the rig high end.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
You're right about the raptors...changed to 2x150gb raptors in raid 0 and surprisingly the price is still under $4,500, though only by a hair.
As for only having 1gb. Again, NO XIP benches with 2gb. It used to be 512mb back in the bh-5 era....YES $5k rigs with top notch 512mb of low latency bh-5.
So though I see your point bloody sorcerer, XIP's don't crunch, hence 4gb being overkill.
Perkam
you should put and aditional 2gb kit if anyone wants it as a game bench rig
As promised earlier, there will be a high end rig in the sub $2000 range and one in the ~$3000 range to fill the gap...that's where you'll see the 2gb and 4gb respectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
I can't speed up making these rigs because
A. They have to have a good balance
B. Balance means not having the most expensive parts possible
C. Every AMD rig will have a counterpart with Intel mobo/proc and therefore the rig specs other than proc and mobo will be set in stone for at least 6 months after they're finalized.
D. They have to meet price standards along with performance standards for each class.
Perkam
4GB? Kinda overkill don't you think? 2GB is just barely being used, don't you think 4GB will be a total waste of money? 4x1GB sticks = crappy overclock. 2x2GB = crappy stock speeds + crappy stock latency + crappy overclock. I say stick with high end 2GB for the ~$3000 rig.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
~$3000 --> Ultimate cruncher (going to be a server config), $2000 rig --> X1900XT Crossfire/7900GTX SLI high end gaming rig.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari_freak
Perkam
Oh I see. I thought $3000 one was just uber gamer. Thanks for the clarification. With that done, what RAM are you considering? A 2x2GB setup doesn't look too bright atm...Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
I have to gather some info on AMD's nex gen server platform...I know now that dual-woodcrest mobos that are available now can use 8gb++ fb-dimm setups easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari_freak
Dunno about amd.
Perkam
Soooo....... This thread is turning pretty sticky don't you think? ;)
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
Not really. No threads with regards to the...blah blah blah...instead of stating forum protocol I'm starting on the intel version.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari_freak
Perkam
Specs For Intel Rig are ALL up and prices have been updated.
However, the prices for Conroe procs are MSRP so the links will lead to newegg, same goes for Conroe motherboards.
Perkam
Congrats on the work on the Intel section. Anyway, I had a recommendation for the "Value" portion of the guide. I have never used the Aspire X-Sonic, but I think the CM Centurion should be considered. It's about the same price, and very nice build quality, uses 120mm fan for the back instead of 80mm, and in my opinion looks much nicer than the Aspire.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119077
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
Oh my. I've seen multiple reviews for that case and there was always some kind of problem in that case including a troublesome installation procedure etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari_freak
CM's value cases are never high quality.
Perkam
You have the Intel Mainstream Power listed as AMD Mainstream Power.
now you have to put the new amd prices xD the budget ones can have better cpus or just lower even more the price
Updating prices and motherboards for AMD.
Thx Orta for the correction :)
EDIT: Done.
Perkam
Mainstream Benching rig now has single XTX and GX2 and still under $1500
Mainstream Cruncher Rig with AMD Dual Core and 4GBs of RAM for LESS THAN $999 Added
More updates as soon as Conslow launches.
Wow it's crazy how much prices have dropped for computers. Just last year, a single 7800GT would have been awesome and now you can get dual 7900GTs (7950GX2) for under $1500. Good job, keep it up man.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
lol
It's all going to heck. :p:
- AMD Opteron 12xx/22xx for AM2
- X2 price cuts
- Conroe release
So yea, no concrete update until August.
Perkam
just wondering, why the ppu on both xps killers but nothing else :confused: .
What do you mean by "but nothing else" ??Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMMAN
Perkam
i mean why is there a physx card in the amd xps killer and the intel xps killer but no physx card in any of the other computers? sigh...guess i should have made my question more clear in the first place.
Because PPU isn't really showing that it's worth it atm so it's not in any of the computers. It doesn't show much performance improvement and the price is just insane. He had to put it in the XPS Killer rig because the PhysX card is one of the main selling points that Dell uses to draw customers to it's XPS line thus the need to put a PhysX card in an XPS Killer system. You need everything which is included in the XPS, plus more, at a lower cost which he did very nicely with a shocking $1000 difference. Hope that helped :toast: .Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMMAN
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
The XPS Killer Idea was more of a gimmick than anything else...It was just to show that how much cheaper you can get the same or better rig by going diy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari_freak
Perkam
really? i thought the xps killers are meant to be the best gaming rigs.
It was meant to show how overpriced Dell really is.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMMAN
Even the XPS Renegade Specs will be outdated in a few weeks, so its futile to try to prove that you can get it for cheaper when you can get something plain better :)
Perkam
It can't be "the best gaming rig" because they use P4 processors instead of A64 processors and we all know what the P4 vs. A64 gaming results are :fact: . This looks like it will all change once Conroe comes out but thats not till about a month longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMMAN
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
It's getting a tad difficult to keep these prices updated.
So next update of guide will have prices before mir. If you click on a link and see a whopping 40$ MIR that I didn't take into account...more power to you :)
Plus I've scratched the idea for server configs...too troublesome. Plus crunching rig will be less than $500 as well.
Plus Quad Rail PSUs will get a bigger showing next update.
Perkam
Why don't you mention the price cut on the first page? Lots of people will be pissed to buy a $300 processor only to see it drop down to $150 in a few days. And why's the selection limited to Newegg? There's other reputable sellers out there :p:.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Good Point. Will do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegis
Perkam
On second thought, maybe you should change that back :p:. They updated the price the day after I said that:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...l?redir=CPT301
The AMD Dedicated Cruncher would cost ~$470 and the AMD Mainstream Gamer ~$1275 before shipping.