Apple Core Solo to Core Duo upgrade.

[Charles Wirth]

http://fugger.netfirms.com/box2.jpg

Apple Mini Mac Core Solo:
1.5Ghz single core Intel mobile CPU
512MB DDR2 SODIMM, Micron D9 based 667Mhz 5-5-5-15<a href="http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,678,00.html">
<FONT COLOR="blue">60GB SATA hard drive Seagate Technologies</FONT></a>
Model Number:ST96812AS
Capacity:60 GB
Speed:5400 rpm
Seek time:12.5 ms avg
Interface:SATA 1.5Gb/s
Matsheeta CD-RW Model 8124
Intel ICH7-M ACHI 1.5G
Intel High Definition Audio :clap:
Bluetooth
Firewire 400MB/s
108G Airport Extreme
Intel GMA 950 onboard graphics 64MB shared
USB 4 ports built in, one high speed.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/back.jpg

Parts to be Installed:
Intel Yonah 2.16 Core Duo
1GB Centon DDR2 Elpida based.

<img src="http://fugger.netfirms.com/box.jpg">

I picked up an Apple Mini Mac for $599 and Fry's Electronics today. It was the low end unit with plans to swap out some of the guts for a mega upgrade that would be an unavailable configuration from Apple.

For those with access to Yonah chips or prefer to purchase from an online retailer but did not have a platform to run it on, this is very cool interim machine to check out.

The motherboard is an Intel Napa. It uses SODIMM and supports up to 2GB of DDR2 ram. It also run in dual channel mode as long as you keep DIMM's matched.

You have no ability to manually adjust memory timing but it will uphold SPD information like a champ.

I did some research into breaking the Apple spirit and getting windows operational and I know it will be possible based on depth of Apple protection.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/side1.jpg


The case is held together with about 30 plastic clips on the bottom. These clips are pretty tough to get worked apart without hurting the case appearance. The most common method for case removal is a putty knife but this will leave bad scars on the case. I would suggest researching the wire method for case opening. It is very clean and takes the same amount of time.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/side2.jpg

Once you get the case open it will take you a few minutes of spinning the thing around to figure out how to take it apart. Look for four black screws at the base of the black plastic CD/HD bracket. The four holes are show in this image at all four corners.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/screw1.jpghttp:// fugger.netfirms.com/screw2.jpg

http://fugger.netfirms.com/screw3.jpghttp:// fugger.netfirms.com/screw4.jpg

You will see a lot of little black connectors at the rear of the CDROM, leave these alone as they can stay on and the whole assembly comes out.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/top.jpg

There is two antennas mounted to the top of the CDROM, carefully lift on the smaller one and it pops off, the larger has two clips from the underside that squeeze together and it will lift off very easily.

Once those two parts are clear there is the one more connector at the front of the CDROM you need to be careful with when you lift the drives out. Undo that clip and the drives are free.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/mobo2.jpg

You should be looking at the system board, the north bridge and CPU covered by separate heat sinks and the two ram slots. You will need to remove the motherboard to remove the CPU heat sink. The screw is located at the front corner with a taller spacer screw with hex top, it has a chrome finish and should be easy to spot.

Carefully clear the front edge and pull it out. Nothing on the back panel prevents the motherboard from being removed, just be careful of metal shielding.

The south bridge is located on the backside of the motherboard and has a thick piece of thermal interface material stuck to the bottom side of the case, remember this when pulling out or reinstalling the motherboard not to mess it up.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/mobo1.jpg

Once the motherboard is out, flip it over and locate the plastic tabs that hold down the CPU bracket. Squeeze them and it will pop off. I highly suggest using one hand to hold heat sink level as it can and will flop to one side with possible damage to core edges. The same goes for reassembly. You will also see a small connector for a thermal diode attached to the underside of the heat sink once you have it loose, remove the clip if you want to remove it completely.

With the CPU exposed, clean off the thermal interface material. It is black in color and feels like tar.

I picked the Core Solo Mac version to show that all models are the same, it would just need a CPU swap. Like all Intel motherboards, memory selection is not an issue as this will accept pretty much any speed or timing SODIMM you put in it. I will be testing with Samsung and 1GB modules as well.

I am very happy to see high definition audio onboard as well as all the other features available on this low end model.

Two more upgrades may be planned, the HD to 200+ GB and DVD-RW drives are a bit less than optimal but will surely get the job done at the current price point of $599

I have a new camera that will be here Monday with an uber macro lens. I will update with PLL and finer board shots.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/mac.jpg

http://fugger.netfirms.com/mac2.jpg

<a href="http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91459">
<FONT COLOR="blue">Discussion can be found an XtremeSystems Forums</FONT></a>

[UnreaL]

Wow! Top job!

Out of interest, thermally how much change do you see?

P.s. is that a thermistor on the heatsink?

[UnreaL]

You copied forum code so you've got a url= /url link :p: Might wanna change that!

So what temps are being reported?

[Charles Wirth]

Still posting more images, work in progress.

[perry_78]

Haha, beautiful stuff.

I think I'll get one too :)

[Dumo]

Nice find there Fugger:toast:
Can't wait to see T2600 in action.

[[XC] leviathan18]

no put some xfire /sli action and ln2 or cascade and have fun :P

[Xassius]

What are the SPD timings of the new Centons?

[Charles Wirth]

Those are 4-4-4-15, I have D9 with tight timing, the Elpida's were available (at home).

I brought all my SODIMM's home and yet to finish my run through as I am still screwing around with getting Windows XP running.

The CPU socket holes are the same as say, a DFI 915GME so that heatsink would fit nicely without the fan (case closed)

Ill post some pics, might give you a better idea how much testing I do.

[Charloz24]

Good joob FUGGER! :clap: Waiting for WinXP results!

[antipop]

Awesome job Fugger, that was one of my big question before getting one of those screamers.

Have you tested the core solo mac? If so do you know if it's enough for everyday use (surf, mail, pics, music, video,...) and is capable of running HD video without frame drop ?

ps : I've given the link to a french website

edit : you should change the HDD by a 7200rpm model and after that the mini will really shine

[\Karting_freak]

may we see the scheme of that spd-reprogrammer?

btw gj on mac modding!

[antipop]

no put some xfire /sli action and ln2 or cascade and have fun :P
You cannot sadly change the vid card on this machine, we must wait for the new powermac to do this. But LN2 can be doable, however don't expect to have a bios with multi settings on a mac. OC are done the old hard way by removing and soldering resistors.

I think we'll have some fun with those machines.

Fugger will you try to oc it? Heat might be an issue in such a small case. I'm also interested to know if the cpu is stable and not overheating

[Charles Wirth]

I do not have spd programmer, I am close to manufacture to where they will build what I need.

I have DDR2 to SODIMM adapters, I can test SODIMM in P5WD2-E.

It has a pretty good fan on it, upgrading the heatsink to copper is very possible since the mounting is standard. It would be very easy to install a water block and run the water lines out the air duct in the back of it.

This block fits, even a gimpy water rig is more than enough on this cpu.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38112

[mike]

Congrats! Amazing work there! This should make many people very happy! I am hoping that the OS is somehow linked to the CPU and a cpu switch could give XP access - but maybe that isn't even needed.

Looking forward for your further results!

[vapb400]

http://digg.com/apple/Mac_Mini_upgraded_with_2,16_Core_Duo_Processor

the front page was going really slow (turns out my torrents were just roaring) so i pulled up digg to see if somebody had dugg this page or the front page.

Fugger....prepare for server rapeage.

[antipop]

I hate you Fugger, your article cracked all my barrier and I just order a core solo mac mini (with superdrive and 1Gb of ram) waiting for the price of the duo to fall a bit before upgrading it.
This is all your fault :D :slapass:

Anyway, I posted on a French website that you were the first to try a cpu change on the mini and they put on the front page
http://www.macbidouille.com/news/2006-03-05/#12452

[vapb400]

oh hell....you made macrumors too. The server is dead.....a good and bad thing at the same time.

good luck with the project fugger!

[JuanFlaiter]

You made it everywhere Charles!

Now we cant read XS, the server is just o laggy :(

[Charles Wirth]

I moved images off site, a little better.

We have exceeded our previous record of online people.

[vapb400]

Excellent job at keeping things up! I was expecting it to be completely gone. It is functioning perfectly....just a little slow.

Wow 2,766 that is HUGE. I bet that will be topped a little later tonight as well.

[IYP]

goodbye server!

wish i had the money...woulda been way ahead of ya :D

[Kunaak]

I know this is dumb to bring up...

but, from looking at apples website, you can get the solo for $600 and the duo 1.66 for $800.

the 1.66 at newegg costs $250 + Shipping and time to mod.
that brings the final cost to about $60 more, then it would cost to just buy a $800 Duo from Apple.

so it's not always gonna be the best idea to go that route, if you want to be cheap about it.

from what I see, this seems to offer the option of using CPU's that Apple doesn't currently offer as a upgrade right?

[metro.cl]

i cant see pictures, this was an awsome threat

[notoriousformula]

Can't see the pics :(

GJ fugger :toast:

[Charles Wirth]

To answer a few questions from around the net;

My chip, yonah on left.
http://fugger.netfirms.com/donah.jpg

Cold air is blowing out the back, no heat at all.

I did not use a putty knife, my case is pristinel. I know about wire and knife method and covered them both.

Merom will be tested soon as possible.

Thanks for checking out xtremesystems.org

[[XC] leviathan18]

104 checking this forum only 90ish the amd i think first time this happens

[[XC] moddolicous]

104 checking this forum only 90ish the amd i think first time this happens
Theres a pic in wamps where thers ~100 veiwing AMD and 100x veiwing MAC!! FUGGER, any xbench runs??

[Charles Wirth]

We had almost 2600 people in the mac section earlier.

#1 mac mini
http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc1=159752

[antipop]

I know this is dumb to bring up...

but, from looking at apples website, you can get the solo for $600 and the duo 1.66 for $800.

the 1.66 at newegg costs $250 + Shipping and time to mod.
that brings the final cost to about $60 more, then it would cost to just buy a $800 Duo from Apple.

so it's not always gonna be the best idea to go that route, if you want to be cheap about it.

from what I see, this seems to offer the option of using CPU's that Apple doesn't currently offer as a upgrade right?
I don't have the money today to sheel out the 200€ more for the core duo version but once the core duo price will have dropped enough i'll be able to upgrade the mini for cheap ;)

I'm happy to hear that there is no heat issue. Do you think the merom will run on this machine without a problem? Won't there be a chipset issue?

[antipop]

BTW, this is the xbench for stock mini's
http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc1=158732&doc2=146457

[Charles Wirth]

The stock memory runs at 667Mhz and the Elpida stuff I put in was running at 533Mhz.

Switching over to another Centon build, this time D9 based.

There is a black wire near the battery that comes from the fan, if you disconnet that connector the fan will run at full speed.

With the connector connected I can heat it up a bit, I need to get a laser temp probe to see what the heat sink is getting to. With the fan on high it stays cold.

[tonyl]

I can't see the pics either. You rock man! I saw another post saying the cpu is socket in mini and you did it! Really tempting! But just got 1 G4 450 DP for fun. Will apple solder the cpu in later mini?

[tonyl]

We had almost 2600 people in the mac section earlier.

#1 mac mini
http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc1=159752

Xbench is useless in mac world. You can do some PS, encoding bench. for ps, you can use this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=136593&highlight=photoshop

[down8]

http://fugger.netfirms.com/box2.jpg

Apple Mini Mac Core Solo:
1.5Ghz single core Intel mobile CPU
512MB DDR2 SODIMM, Micron D9 based 667Mhz 5-5-5-15<a href="http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,678,00.html">
<FONT COLOR="blue">60GB SATA hard drive Seagate Technologies</FONT></a>
Model Number:ST96812AS
Capacity:60 GB
Speed:5400 rpm
Seek time:12.5 ms avg
Interface:SATA 1.5Gb/s
Matsheeta CD-RW Model 8124
Intel ICH7-M ACHI 1.5G
Intel High Definition Audio :clap:
Bluetooth
Firewire 400MB/s
108G Airport Extreme
Intel GMA 950 onboard graphics 64MB shared
USB 4 ports built in, one high speed.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/back.jpg

Parts to be Installed:
Intel Yonah 2.16 Core Duo
1GB Centon DDR2 Elpida based.

<img src="http://fugger.netfirms.com/box.jpg">

I picked up an Apple Mini Mac for $599 and Fry's Electronics today. It was the low end unit with plans to swap out some of the guts for a mega upgrade that would be an unavailable configuration from Apple.

For those with access to Yonah chips or prefer to purchase from an online retailer but did not have a platform to run it on, this is very cool interim machine to check out.

The motherboard is an Intel Napa. It uses SODIMM and supports up to 2GB of DDR2 ram. It also run in dual channel mode as long as you keep DIMM's matched.

You have no ability to manually adjust memory timing but it will uphold SPD information like a champ.

I did some research into breaking the Apple spirit and getting windows operational and I know it will be possible based on depth of Apple protection.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/side1.jpg


The case is held together with about 30 plastic clips on the bottom. These clips are pretty tough to get worked apart without hurting the case appearance. The most common method for case removal is a putty knife but this will leave bad scars on the case. I would suggest researching the wire method for case opening. It is very clean and takes the same amount of time.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/side2.jpg

Once you get the case open it will take you a few minutes of spinning the thing around to figure out how to take it apart. Look for four black screws at the base of the black plastic CD/HD bracket. The four holes are show in this image at all four corners.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/screw1.jpghttp://fugger.netfirms.com/screw2.jpg

http://fugger.netfirms.com/screw3.jpghttp://fugger.netfirms.com/screw4.jpg

You will see a lot of little black connectors at the rear of the CDROM, leave these alone as they can stay on and the whole assembly comes out.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/top.jpg

There is two antennas mounted to the top of the CDROM, carefully lift on the smaller one and it pops off, the larger has two clips from the underside that squeeze together and it will lift off very easily.

Once those two parts are clear there is the one more connector at the front of the CDROM you need to be careful with when you lift the drives out. Undo that clip and the drives are free.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/mobo2.jpg

You should be looking at the system board, the north bridge and CPU covered by separate heat sinks and the two ram slots. You will need to remove the motherboard to remove the CPU heat sink. The screw is located at the front corner with a taller spacer screw with hex top, it has a chrome finish and should be easy to spot.

Carefully clear the front edge and pull it out. Nothing on the back panel prevents the motherboard from being removed, just be careful of metal shielding.

The south bridge is located on the backside of the motherboard and has a thick piece of thermal interface material stuck to the bottom side of the case, remember this when pulling out or reinstalling the motherboard not to mess it up.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/mobo1.jpg

Once the motherboard is out, flip it over and locate the plastic tabs that hold down the CPU bracket. Squeeze them and it will pop off. I highly suggest using one hand to hold heat sink level as it can and will flop to one side with possible damage to core edges. The same goes for reassembly. You will also see a small connector for a thermal diode attached to the underside of the heat sink once you have it loose, remove the clip if you want to remove it completely.

With the CPU exposed, clean off the thermal interface material. It is black in color and feels like tar.

I picked the Core Solo Mac version to show that all models are the same, it would just need a CPU swap. Like all Intel motherboards, memory selection is not an issue as this will accept pretty much any speed or timing SODIMM you put in it. I will be testing with Samsung and 1GB modules as well.

I am very happy to see high definition audio onboard as well as all the other features available on this low end model.

Two more upgrades may be planned, the HD to 200+ GB and DVD-RW drives are a bit less than optimal but will surely get the job done at the current price point of $599

I have a new camera that will be here Monday with an uber macro lens. I will update with PLL and finer board shots.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/mac.jpg

http://fugger.netfirms.com/mac2.jpg

<a href="http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91459">
<FONT COLOR="blue">Discussion can be found an XtremeSystems Forums</FONT></a>
Fixed the picture tags....

-bZj

[Paul Stamatiou]

As usual, fantastic job Fugger. I posted it yesterday on 123MacMini, lots of people there are excited. http://www.123macmini.com/news/story/453.html
After reading this, I ordered a Core Solo mini last night, 2gigs of ram for $230 on OWC and am in the works of getting a 7200rpm SATA 80 or 100gig internal drive and going through my contacts to see if I can't get a T2600 as well, but likely a 1.83/2ghz duo will suit my needs.


I saw another post saying the cpu is socket in mini and you did it! Really tempting!

I think you are referring to this post of mine. It made digg and newsvine top seed a few days ago. http://www.paulstamatiou.com/2006/03/02/intel-mac-mini-is-upgradable/

[Charles Wirth]

Welcome to XS,

Thanks for the linkage.

Dwon8, question,
What was wrong with the images??

[panaman]

Yeah.. this thread is awesome...
I have one of the G4 Mac Mini's, i wish i would have waited for the intel version to come out.....
I can't wait to see if you get windows xp working on it..

[xterm]

Can you run cinebench on it? here is my numbers from a stock 1.66 Core Duo Mac Mini:

CINEBENCH 9.5
************************************************** **

Tester : xterm

Processor : 1.66GHz Core Duo Mac Mini
MHz : 1666
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : Mac Os 10.4.5

Graphics Card : Intel GMA950
Resolution : 1600x1200
Color Depth : Millions
************************************************** **

Rendering (Single CPU): 255 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 473 CB-CPU

Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.85

Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 300 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 1075 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 545 CB-GFX

OpenGL Speedup: 3.58

************************************************** **

[AmpliFuzz]

Hey, awesome thread. Let's hope that a direct Merom drop-in will be possible, or that Apple (or some entrerprising hacker) will support it with a firmware update.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet anywhere: it should be useful to find out what kind of clock generator the mobo is using, to check if it supports FSB changes in realtime, using one of the clockgen-type programs under Windows. Porting it to OSX (or even better writing an ad-hoc utility from scratch) should be relatively trivial, and my guess is that the lower clocked parts, both solo and duo, have great overclocking potential, like centrinos do. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any material on core duo overclocking so far on the web. Got any cool links?

[geforce man]

that is sooooo cool, will make a damn fine browsing/general use PC, nothing to game with, but an awesome machine none the less.

[Charles Wirth]

Adjustable fan speed control mod figured out, I pulled the unit apart again for more pictures and round two.

The new camera,
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05042201canons2is.asp

Lets hope that the old camera was the problem ;)

[GoriLLakoS]

Congrats Fugger....:D

Links...

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/03/07/apple_mac_mini_duo_hack/

[Spanky Deluxe]

This is truly awesome stuff!! Congrats Fugger!! BTW to those who were saying that it wasn't really worth buying a 1.5Ghz Solo Mini and then upgrading to a 1.66Ghz Core Duo you forgot to factor in the superdrive (DVDRW-DL) that you get for the $800 package.

Getting Windows XP running is going to prove to be pretty tricky since these things use an EFI implementation that does not have the CSM bios compatibility module. There's been a contest that's reached over $10000 worth of price money to the first person to get Windows XP installed on an Apple Intel based Mac.

For those considering getting a mini out there I'd recommend you pony up for the Core Duo model now since the Core Solo chip will get you next to nothing when it comes to upgrading. Since the core solo 1.5Ghz part is the cheapest and slowest chip you can use on this platform its resale value will be very low. If you get a Core Duo 1.66Ghz model, however, there will be quite a bit of demand from people who want to upgrade from a core solo part. Do you see what I'm getting at?

[Paul Stamatiou]

Fugger, in this picture, how do you release the CPU, do you turn that black screw on the socket? I see it doesn't have the usual release lever thing.

http://%20fugger.netfirms.com/mobo2.jpg

[Frodin]

Fugger, in this picture, how do you release the CPU, do you turn that black screw on the socket?
Yepp, that's how it's done on the preceding 479-socket at least.

Good job Fugger! But reading the article was slow as hell as soon as it hit the front page (and all those other sites started linking to it, apparently). Seems like Xtremesystems got a few new members as well!

[Paul Stamatiou]

Ah, I've never played around with a mobile 479 mobo, so this is new to me.

In regards to the new members, I've actually been on these forums for a while but under a user name and password I couldn't remember, nor the email under which I signed up for it. =/

[kzzaaa]

Hey, one of those new members here. I'm considering getting a mini, but being able to upgrade a few parts of it is key to making that decision.

Well done Fugger. I have a question, though. Is there anything non-standard about the harddrive? 5400 rpm is not high on my list. Do you think there's any reason why a 150 gig Raptor drive wouldn't fit and run without overheating?

[Paul Stamatiou]

The Mac Mini uses a 2.5" SATA laptop hard drive. Raptor = 3.5", power hungry desktop hd

[kzzaaa]

Ah, so it is a laptop drive in there. Pity. I couldn't find the dimensions anywhere. Thanks for the info, Paul.

[Charles Wirth]

Yep, lap top hard drive.

There is a few performance laptop drives available.

Around the screw you will see lock/unlock as well

[vapb400]

Yep their is a laptop HD in there, so your current limit is 160GB, unlike the 250GB Fugger had planned earlier. You can always go with external storage via the firewire 400 or usb.

I am really hoping to set up a couple of these for web server use. Windows XP is having some issues, but can most linux distros run on it? What about Win2K3?

[Charles Wirth]

I tried ubuntu and it will not autoboot from CD.

[irev210]

fugger: The S3 IS is coming out in may!


I suggest a canon Digital rebel 300D with an EF-S 60mm macro lens.

I have a 20D and a 60mm macro, love it for taking shots of PCB

[antipop]

Yep their is a laptop HD in there, so your current limit is 160GB, unlike the 250GB Fugger had planned earlier. You can always go with external storage via the firewire 400 or usb.

I am really hoping to set up a couple of these for web server use. Windows XP is having some issues, but can most linux distros run on it? What about Win2K3?
You can install linux on a mac, you just have to look for it on the web.

anyway i don't understand why people are trying to install XP on a mac, it doesn't make sense :) The other way around is way more interesting

[antipop]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet anywhere: it should be useful to find out what kind of clock generator the mobo is using, to check if it supports FSB changes in realtime, using one of the clockgen-type programs under Windows. Porting it to OSX (or even better writing an ad-hoc utility from scratch) should be relatively trivial, and my guess is that the lower clocked parts, both solo and duo, have great overclocking potential, like centrinos do. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any material on core duo overclocking so far on the web. Got any cool links?
AFAIK apple has used the standard intel mobo and except for the EFI which i don't know how standard it is.

If we could get a clockgen that would be awesome, but i'm worried about the heat generated by this and how far we can go with an unmodded mini (no xtra cooling added)

[Charles Wirth]

http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc1=160009

updated xbench with D9 fat body SODIMM (stock Mini memory on mine)

[Paul Stamatiou]

Fugger, do you think you could do a complete Xbench, I want to see how it does with the stock hard drive.

[tonyl]

Good point! But if I only want to upgrade the mini one year later, Core Solo may be a good choice.



This is truly awesome stuff!! Congrats Fugger!! BTW to those who were saying that it wasn't really worth buying a 1.5Ghz Solo Mini and then upgrading to a 1.66Ghz Core Duo you forgot to factor in the superdrive (DVDRW-DL) that you get for the $800 package.

Getting Windows XP running is going to prove to be pretty tricky since these things use an EFI implementation that does not have the CSM bios compatibility module. There's been a contest that's reached over $10000 worth of price money to the first person to get Windows XP installed on an Apple Intel based Mac.

For those considering getting a mini out there I'd recommend you pony up for the Core Duo model now since the Core Solo chip will get you next to nothing when it comes to upgrading. Since the core solo 1.5Ghz part is the cheapest and slowest chip you can use on this platform its resale value will be very low. If you get a Core Duo 1.66Ghz model, however, there will be quite a bit of demand from people who want to upgrade from a core solo part. Do you see what I'm getting at?

[tonyl]

You can install linux on a mac, you just have to look for it on the web.

anyway i don't understand why people are trying to install XP on a mac, it doesn't make sense :) The other way around is way more interesting

Since you install mac on pc, you voilate apple's rules. But the other way, apple doesn't care. Lots of PC guys want use windows applications on mac sometimes.

[panaman]

Does the new and old mac mini use ata-6 hard drives or do they have a serial ata150 controller...

Either way there are some decsent 7200RPM ones on newegg with 8mb cache

[down8]

Welcome to XS,

Thanks for the linkage.

Dwon8, question,
What was wrong with the images??
There was a space between "http://" and "fugger", so all the links were http://%20fugger....

I've browsed here a lot lately, following your progress with the new Preslers, mostly. Anyhow, finally registered, hope my first post was worthwhile. :D

-bZj

[Magnj]

Great Job, I posted it on my blog...but it seems to be down for the moment...I'll link it soon

[AmpliFuzz]

AFAIK apple has used the standard intel mobo and except for the EFI which i don't know how standard it is.

If we could get a clockgen that would be awesome, but i'm worried about the heat generated by this and how far we can go with an unmodded mini (no xtra cooling added)

If you check out the clockgen site, it'll show that Intel mobos use different clock generators from model to model, and different manufacturers use different clock gens on mobos using the same chipset. While I guess that the Mini mobo is fairly close to a commercial Intel 945G mobo design-wise that doesn't mean that everything onboard must be identical.

Since the Mini handles a 2.16 part well - as it should - I don't think heat will be a problem overclocking parts in the 1.5-1.6 range to 2.0 or so, provided one is reasonable with expectations. I'm more worried about SO-DIMMs not allowing decent FSB boosts. The way I look at it, it would be a cool way to squeeze that extra 'free' performance without major surgery, extra noise or drawbacks - just some Arctic Silver in place of that black blob of lameness :)

Plus, this would be applicable to iMacs, MacBooks and future iBooks too, they should be eminently overclockable as well.

[Charles Wirth]

Dont worry about SODIMM, the Mini has the best possible modules possible, fat body D9.

ISL clock gen, as soon as I can get a PLL dump it will be posted.

[mhunter]

Hello Fugger,

It has come to my attention that Intel does not produce a 1.5 GHz CoreSolo CPU (only a 1.6 GHz CoreSolo).

The only 1.5 GHz CPU in the "Core" line is a 1.5 GHz CoreDuo.

So, since you are the only one I know who has their 1.5 GHz CoreSolo removed from their system, I thought I would ask you to look at the CPU and see if you can determine if it is really a CoreDuo.

The part numbers I saw on the top of the CPU didn't seem to correspond to the part numbers Intel has provided for their CPU's (unless I misread something there). So, I thought perhaps the real part numbers might be on the bottom???

Anyway, this should be an interesting find.

I suspect that Apple is really using CoreDuo chips and disabling the 2nd core either in the EFI / Firmware or in OS X itself.

It would be interesting to find out for sure if this is the case.

Another possibility is that the 1.5 GHz CoreDuo has had it's 2nd core disabled internally. But, that seems a more remote possibility. I guess one could always install a 1.5 GHz CoreSolo in a PC and see if it suddenly became a CoreDuo :-)

As a side-note, many users have reported that the "About this Mac" window reports the 1.5 GHz CoreSolo as a CoreDuo. But, the same users report that the System Profiler identifies the chip as a CoreSolo.

From conversations with others, and limited information available on the Internet, it is my speculation that the 1.5 GHz CoreSolo is really a 1.5 GHz CoreDuo with a core disabled.

Either that, or it could possibly be a 1.6 GHz CoreSolo running at a reduced clock-speed.

Either way, it would be interesting to find out for sure.

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

109,084 views! Wow the Mac is alive and well.

[antipop]

If you check out the clockgen site, it'll show that Intel mobos use different clock generators from model to model, and different manufacturers use different clock gens on mobos using the same chipset. While I guess that the Mini mobo is fairly close to a commercial Intel 945G mobo design-wise that doesn't mean that everything onboard must be identical.

Since the Mini handles a 2.16 part well - as it should - I don't think heat will be a problem overclocking parts in the 1.5-1.6 range to 2.0 or so, provided one is reasonable with expectations. I'm more worried about SO-DIMMs not allowing decent FSB boosts. The way I look at it, it would be a cool way to squeeze that extra 'free' performance without major surgery, extra noise or drawbacks - just some Arctic Silver in place of that black blob of lameness :)

Plus, this would be applicable to iMacs, MacBooks and future iBooks too, they should be eminently overclockable as well.
I'm not worried about the cpu cooling but rather with the NB, I don't know how hot the intel chipset can get. Anyway I'm up to try :) I agree with the SODIMM, I wonder how far the standard apple can go

[JeffTracy]

An interesting thread, much kudos points to the Fuggster for braving the innards of a Mactel!

Plenty of questions, and I've got quite a few answers that should help clear a few things up for people.


no put some xfire /sli action and ln2 or cascade and have fun :P

No can do. No slots, apart from the pair for RAM. GPU is fixed, non-changeable, and shares main memory.


Waiting for WinXP results!

Won't see them for a loooong long time. Just because a Mac uses an Intel, does not mean it can boot Windows -- and nor will a Mac boot Windows until some enterprising hacker codes up a bootx which provides what Apple left out of their version of EFI on purpose - the BIOS Compatibility Module. No BIOS CSM in the EFI = no booting XP.


I am hoping that the OS is somehow linked to the CPU and a cpu switch could give XP access

Nope. See above.

In fact, see this post I did earlier, it should fill in a few holes:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1319161&postcount=31


it should be useful to find out what kind of clock generator the mobo is using, to check if it supports FSB changes in realtime

No, it doesn't. Fixed dynamic, SRD polled by EFI during POST ... which is just as well, because the machine's geared around 667 MHz. Running 533 MHz RAM in it for extended periods will result in data hiccups.

And before you all go "Awww, why?" remember that Apple is a closed-hardware shop by nature, and one of the main reasons why their OS works so smoothly is because they have total control over both the hard and the soft, making integration smooth and maintenance (and design) easier. Macs are not a tweaker's platform, in fact they go out of their way to make it not a tweaker's platform. Think about who Macs are aimed at. Right, average joes & janes who want something they can plug in, surf the net, point & click, shoot & print, fill up the ol' iPod at ITMS, and that's it. Not even their big towers are tweakable. Because that's their target market, they've also made OSX self-maintaining -- they're designed to be left on 24/7, so they'll do some pretty low level maintenance during the wee hours. Mac geeks, of course, can patch cron (or launchd, depending on the OS rev) as they wish, or run a GUI app such as MacJanitor that'd force the scheduled maintenance jobs to run.


The Mac Mini uses a 2.5" SATA laptop hard drive.

That's right, the Mini is based more on laptop technologies, so most of the architecture is "locked down" to make it all fit into the teensy form-factor.

That said, when the original G4 Minis were released, a few enterprising souls figured out ways of 'breaking out' the Mini's onboard IDE interface, as is shown in this article here:

http://www.appletalk.com.au/articles/index.php?article=4433

I myself used a similar approach, and squeezed a G4 Mac Mini into an old Apple LC630 case, adding a 7200rpm WD120 in place of the 4200rpm Samsung HD, and a bog-standard DVR-109 that replaced the slot-load combo-drive. Here are the work-in-progress shots:

http://madchat.tv/apple/frankenmini


Windows XP is having some issues, but can most linux distros run on it? What about Win2K3?

No, no and no. Sadly. All x86 *nix builds still expect the machine to have a BIOS to tap into. The Intel Macs have none, nor a BIOS CSM (see above). The Knoppix boot experiment required some serious jiggery-pokery with bootloaders before it'd go. You can digg it here:

http://digg.com/linux_unix/Knoppix_(Linux)_booting_off_Intel-based_Mac


You can install linux on a mac, you just have to look for it on the web.

You sure can, but they're all geared to boot on machines with PowerPC chips and OpenFirmware instead of a BIOS. We're yet to see a 'real' build of any *nix for the Mactels.

(But then, why bother when OS X is effectively Unix anyway :D)


i don't understand why people are trying to install XP on a mac, it doesn't make sense

Heh, it makes perfect sense to me -- have one machine that can dual or even triple boot cleanly is very appealing. Boot into XP for some gaming, boot back into OS X for everything else.


Does the new and old mac mini use ata-6 hard drives or do they have a serial ata150 controller?

Standard 44-pin ATA-6 class. Nothing to stop you swapping out the 4200 & 5400 rpm slowpokes & dropping in a nice fast 7KT6 or other hot little 7200rpm 2.5-incher ... or case-modding it, and using a 2.5-to-3.5 adaptor to feed it to some standard 40-way devices (see above).


I hope this somewhat lengthy post has helped a few people :D


FAB

[w2ed]

Great Job Fugger - Though I'd rather see that hack done on a new iMac. (an iMac trhat shares the TOL Macbook core would be awesome...)

JEff, just want to make a correction for you: Up until the G5 line, the Mac was more upgradeable than you realize - in fact, it's only this latest batch of G5 Towers that has litttle to no upgradebaility. The previous G5's before that had PCI-X, which allowed useers to plug in PCI cards, such as TV tuners and other cards - The last-Gen G5 would be great to have as an entertainment PC.

Up until the G5 line, however, the G4 and G3 models were processor-upgradable as well. (In fact, almost all of the PCI-based Macs were.) Granted, overclocking, if and when possible, was difficult, but in many cases could be done. It was Apple switching to IBM that put a stop to that.

You can go to www.xlr8yourmac.com (http://www.macsales.com]www.macsales.com[/URL] to look for various upgrades - they're the best resource I have found for Mac upgrading. Also check out [URL="http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/).

Other than that, cool little posting. Hope mine helped a little. :)

[JeffTracy]

Expandable? Most definitely. Plenty of PCI cards around, and it's even possible to 'flash' some PC cards so they worked in a Mac -- although when Apple decided to be smart & go "Yahh, let's go fast with PCI-X!", the x86 camp went "ha, another Nubus, PCI-e is better" ;)

Upgradable? Certainly, especially from third parties like FastMac, Daystar, and NewerTech / OWC. You could even get CPU upgrades for most of the PowerBooks, and their seven year old 'Pismo' can still run 10.4, be bumped with a G4/550 or a G3/900, take AirPort and a DVD burner.

Hackable? Sure can, if you can find what jumpers to move, or which traces to cut, or which software to load. (Did you ever hear of the 25 MHz 68040 Mac that managed to boot OS X? Debian 68k and a build of PearPC ... it booted, kinda, it got as far as the blue welcome screen before the hard drive finally died after eleven days of non-stop paging :D :D)

Tweakable, like we can with 'generic' x86 machines, with access to BIOS-level FSB and clockspeeds and voltages & overclocking goodness & monster heatsinks & nine dozen 3D cards? Not a chance :)

Otherwise, yes :D


FAB

[elec999]

Looks amazing. Great job. Do I see any cooler.
Thanks

[Sparkstack]

Does the new and old mac mini use ata-6 hard drives or do they have a serial ata150 controller?


Standard 44-pin ATA-6 class. Nothing to stop you swapping out the 4200 & 5400 rpm slowpokes & dropping in a nice fast 7KT6 or other hot little 7200rpm 2.5-incher ... or case-modding it, and using a 2.5-to-3.5 adaptor to feed it to some standard 40-way devices (see above).


Yes and no.

The original (powerPC) Mac mini uses a regular 44-pin ATA Drive. But the New (intel) Mac mini uses Serial ATA hard drives...

[tonyl]

Standard 44-pin ATA-6 class. Nothing to stop you swapping out the 4200 & 5400 rpm slowpokes & dropping in a nice fast 7KT6 or other hot little 7200rpm 2.5-incher ... or case-modding it, and using a 2.5-to-3.5 adaptor to feed it to some standard 40-way devices (see above).


I hope this somewhat lengthy post has helped a few people :D


FAB

Hi Jeff, do you have link to make the adaptor for 3.5" HD in mac mini? THanks

[Charles Wirth]

Update.

The plastic clips that retain the CPU bracket will break after the third removal even if you are very careful. New ones can be found on chipset heatsink or old mobo's if you can find the right diameter ones.

I tested a Dothan CPU in the Napa motherboard and it did not fire up or even attempt to power on.

The motherboard is made by Apple and outputs 1.9v for VDIMM. I was expecting 1.8v

[mhunter]

Hello Fugger,

Did you ever get a chance to try the 1.5 CoreSolo in a PC board to see if the second core fired-up?

Just thought I would ask. It would be interesting to find out if the second core is disabled in the CPU itself, or somewhere in the Apple firmware / OS.

[Charles Wirth]

Yep, its a solo core the core is diabled.

We compared it to a few other chips in this thread.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92161

It does seem to be of a duo spec

[antipop]

Can you post a pic of how they broke donw?

As for dothan, wouldn't that need a firmware update?

[mhunter]

Yep, its a solo core the core is diabled.

We compared it to a few other chips in this thread.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92161

It does seem to be of a duo spec

How unfortunate :(

It's too bad they disabled it in the chip itself. This must be something they're doing special for Apple. Since it's not listed in their shipping products, it must be a custom job for Apple.

[masri]

Fugger,

Thanks for posting such a thorough review of your upgrade process. I have a friend that wants an Intel Mac mini as a HTPC (Home Theatre PC). His goal is to play 1080p video on it to his TV.

I went to a local Apple Store, and tried various tests of 1080p video playback. I found that only the high end multicore PowerMac G5 could handle the playback; the Intel machines (iMac, mini, MacBook Pro) weren't fast enough to play back w/no studdering video.

Could you try a test for me? Please go to this page at Apple.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/

Try playing "IMAX Deep Sea 3D" in 1080p (the fish). On the Core Duo mini at the Apple Store, this video would studder shortly after the Warner Bros. logo. There's a scene with a ton of little fish all turning in unison, and the light shimmers off the surface of them; I'm thinking the bitrate on this shot is just too high (perhaps it couldn't be compressed because of so many things changing at once), but I can't figure out what the problem is. I figure it could be the CPU can't decode the video fast enough (maybe yours can), or perhaps the use of system RAM instead of VRAM just puts too much strain on the system bus? Not sure what's wrong here. The sales guy at the Apple Store was interested in my questions, so he pushed a tech in the back to upgrade the machine from 512MB to 1GB RAM. I was thinking maybe too much RAM was taken up as VRAM, forcing a VM swap; the upgrade made no difference. We then tried saving the video to a FireWire LaCie HD, thinking perhaps the HD speed of the laptop drive in the mini was too slow to read the movie fast enough, but that didn't fix it either. So, those two plausible reasons for poor playback weren't the culprit. The rest of this trailer plays fine on the mini. I did this test on a Dual Core mini 512MB & 1GB models (2 different machines); no difference, same studdering problem. I then tested on a 17" iMac Intel Core Duo (1.83GHz) w/1GB RAM; the studdering was less pronounced but still there. I then tested on a 20" iMac Intel Core Duo (2GHz) w/1GB RAM; now the studdering was gone. Since both iMacs have the same system bus speed and graphics (both had 128MB VRAM), that leads me to believe this could well be a CPU speed issue.

If you could also try Warren Miller's "Higher Ground" (the skier) in 1080p, that one was glitching on all the Intel Macs at the store. Only the PowerMac dual core could keep up. I'm not sure if that's thanks to the higher CPU speed, Altivec (which from what I've read is faster than Intel's vector routines), or a better graphics card on the PowerMac.

These would be excellent tests, but for bonus points (and I'm sure the forum would appreciate knowing), please let us know how decoding 1080p video affects temperature. If you save one of these trailers to your HD, and just set QuickTime Player to keep playing it over & over, then we could see if the CPU gets too hot after 15 mins, 30 mins, or 1hr. If you put your hand on the back and feel hot or cold air coming out, that would be quite telling. If you could give actual temperatures, even better. If you have any thoughts on how to keep the CPU cool in this kind of environment, that would be useful too.

Thanks very much for your time.

- Adam

[Charles Wirth]

Ive played most of the HD trailers and they look aweseome. I was impressed by the image quality of the HD trailers.

I have an HD display and watched several movies so far. Flawless dashboard, very smooth and responsive.

[masri]

Wow, this is great news that your machine could handle the 1080p trailers w/no problem. How about heat? Are you noticing any problem with the mini getting hot after playing the trailers for a time?

- Adam

[mike]

just found the XP on Mac contest - seems like someone just won it
http://onmac.net/

Time to make a reverse approach - mac OS on PC clone

[antipop]

masri, there has several test on the internet and the imac and the mini dual core can read 1080p perfectly, I don't know how it has been setup at your apple store but i've many review about this and they all seem to agree.

BTW who needs 1080p except for watching trailers ? Until it becomes widely available, i'd be on my third computer.

mikeguava, i think you're not aware of the OSX86 Project ;) just query for it

[masri]

masri, there has several test on the internet and the imac and the mini dual core can read 1080p perfectly, I don't know how it has been setup at your apple store but i've many review about this and they all seem to agree.

The movie trailers Apple has at their Website here

http://www.apple.com/trailers/

list 1080p. But they aren't. Try downloading one, and Get Info in QuickTime Player. You'll see that they're usually around 800pix high, not 1080. I believe this is a bit false on Apple's part, and I was rather surprised to see them do that. The only true 1080p video that's easy to get to is the video here.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/

I believe most people who say 1080p is fine didn't realize this, and were just reporting that the movie trailers played ok.


BTW who needs 1080p except for watching trailers ? Until it becomes widely available, i'd be on my third computer.

True. I believe he was trying to buy a machine today that would be relatively future proof for the next 5 years; as 1080p video comes online & is standard, he wanted a machine that would continue to be able to handle the load.

- Adam

[antipop]

I'm really not sure you can find a computer today that is future proof, specially for HD and on a 500$ machine

[IYP]

fugger, install windows on this beast ( http://onmac.net/ ) and get us some pi numbers pronto


and if your feelin really nice compare it to PC hardware core duo

[Haltech]

masri, there has several test on the internet and the imac and the mini dual core can read 1080p perfectly, I don't know how it has been setup at your apple store but i've many review about this and they all seem to agree.

BTW who needs 1080p except for watching trailers ? Until it becomes widely available, i'd be on my third computer.

mikeguava, i think you're not aware of the OSX86 Project ;) just query for it


People like me who have a 42" 1080p LCD HDTV that natively displays the desktop at 1920X1080 @ 60hz... MediaPC = Cheap Upscaler to 1080 content.

[oktavius]

well sounds nice
how is the performance?

[Charles Wirth]

I was able to make the boot CD and pretty much went through all the steps but I cannot get the XOM to fire up correctly to give me choice of partition or boot from CD still.

[antipop]

I finally got my mac mini today, that i paired with a 20" WD Dell monitor, I must admit that it makes my PB run like a snail. Dammit apple, i now need a macbook.

I took the core solo with 1gb of ram. I runs perfectly fine 720p HD trailers at apple, but there is a lot of frame drop at 1080p. If i ever feel the need, i can always upgrade to a core duo later

[Frisch]

I just got back from the Apple store and had the opportunity to play with one. I'm very impressed and may consider buying one with the 23" Cinema HD display. :)
Their Screens are pure art, makes the pc screens look like ....

Edit :
No, i'm not booting up on a mac, just secretly admiring it's style :D

[[XC] moddolicous]

I finally got my mac mini today, that i paired with a 20" WD Dell monitor, I must admit that it makes my PB run like a snail. Dammit apple, i now need a macbook.

I took the core solo with 1gb of ram. I runs perfectly fine 720p HD trailers at apple, but there is a lot of frame drop at 1080p. If i ever feel the need, i can always upgrade to a core duo later
Any chance of you runnin Rosetta on it?? Those comps are beasts at rosetta.

[IYP]

Any chance of you runnin Rosetta on it?? Those comps are beasts at rosetta.

another shameless plug

[Frisch]

another shameless plug
He has a thing for homeless cpu's.

[[XC] moddolicous]

Its not a shameless plug, if the comp stays on 24/7, why not make it do something?? You cant play games/ watch movies 24/7. Plus its for a good cause.

[antipop]

Any chance of you runnin Rosetta on it?? Those comps are beasts at rosetta.
I'm not sure i understand you, are you talking about the program that emulates a PPC? If so, i have a few soft using it and you feel that it goes much slower than a soft written for intel.

If it's something else, tell me about it. The mini will be running 24/7 and it won't be doing cpu-intensive tasks

[Vapor]

He means Rosetta@home :)

[[XC] moddolicous]

I'm not sure i understand you, are you talking about the program that emulates a PPC? If so, i have a few soft using it and you feel that it goes much slower than a soft written for intel.

If it's something else, tell me about it. The mini will be running 24/7 and it won't be doing cpu-intensive tasks
Yea, Vapor got it. Rosetta@Home. Head over to our part of this forum to read what its about or pm me. Sorry for the OT.

[Paul Stamatiou]

He means Rosetta@home :)

Hahah, I was confused for a while as well.

[oktavius]

Does the MacMini use a clock generator like ICS oder Realtek?
If yes, there should be a overclocking-ability, or?

Maybe with Pin-mod or sth. similar?

[MaZeR]

Hey Fugger, how did you get on with the XP install here? Any updates?

[Charles Wirth]

Yes, ICS PLL chip.

I have not been able to get XP to boot yet, one of the files I needed was un-accessable from the xponmac site for the mini. I need to check again for updates.

[Choppaface]

Does anybody know if the intel chipset in the mac mini supports SATA port multiplier? I was thinking of hooking up a mini to this:

http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/ad5sapm-e.asp

it seems like the chipset should support SATA II (and thus port multiplier?), though they only ship it with a SATA I drive (are there even any SATA II notebook drives though?)

CPU upgrade + RAM + 5 drives = killer server, no?

[tonyl]

Does anybody know if the intel chipset in the mac mini supports SATA port multiplier? I was thinking of hooking up a mini to this:

http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/ad5sapm-e.asp

it seems like the chipset should support SATA II (and thus port multiplier?), though they only ship it with a SATA I drive (are there even any SATA II notebook drives though?)

CPU upgrade + RAM + 5 drives = killer server, no?

How do you power these drives? Extra PS? I also want to get one mini, but the disc system makes me stop.

[Choppaface]

How do you power these drives? Extra PS? I also want to get one mini, but the disc system makes me stop.

I was thinking a picoPSU (if I can find a way to get a power switch on it) or some other miniITXish power supply... don't want to put more load on the mac PSU. I was also thinking of getting an Addonics storage tower and modding it for a case, and that comes with a 220W PSU.

[Charles Wirth]

I will test Merom in the Mini tomorrow.

The forums will erupt again if Merom works. Such a huge upgrade path from a $500 dollar machine.

I win not be able to post any info, images, or benches.

Pretty damn scarey to have this roll up on us so fast and we have not even gotten to abuse the Yonahs yet.

[zabomb4163]

I will test Merom in the Mini tomorrow.

The forums will erupt again if Merom works. Such a huge upgrade path from a $500 dollar machine.

I win not be able to post any info, images, or benches.

As a special treat to the Rosetta team, I will show rosetta numbers in private forum.

Pretty damn scarey to have this roll up on us so fast and we have not even gotten to abuse the Yonahs yet.

not even a hint on performance?

[Charles Wirth]

I will only confirm if its works or doesnt.

[[XC] moddolicous]

I beleive you should edit your post FUGGER FAST (about rosie)!! Before any other rosetta person freaks! Back on topic, cant wait to see the results.

[birdman666]

Does anybody know if the intel chipset in the mac mini supports SATA port multiplier? I was thinking of hooking up a mini to this:

http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/ad5sapm-e.asp

it seems like the chipset should support SATA II (and thus port multiplier?), though they only ship it with a SATA I drive (are there even any SATA II notebook drives though?)

CPU upgrade + RAM + 5 drives = killer server, no?

SATA II doesn't mean a controller supports port multiplication. No motherboard SATA ports that i know of support it as of yet, PCIe/PCI-X cards are just now getting the capability first and it will trickle down eventually, but I am almost positive that the mini does not support port multiplication.

[Choppaface]

SATA II doesn't mean a controller supports port multiplication. No motherboard SATA ports that i know of support it as of yet, PCIe/PCI-X cards are just now getting the capability first and it will trickle down eventually, but I am almost positive that the mini does not support port multiplication.

blast! thats too bad... thanks for the info, you saved me a few hundred bucks in hardware :D
i guess its off to miniITX land if I want an equivalent server...

[serpent]

I went and bought a 1.5 iMM and intel 2.16 #BX80539T2600SL8VN. when i tried to boot up mini I got nothing! put 1.5cpu back in all is working fine! does anyone have any clues?

tia
Serpent

[Charles Wirth]

It is possible to drop in Merom into Mini, one hell of an upgrade path.

confirming this is a working combo, just drop the chip in.

[antipop]

that's awesome, I can't wait for price to drop to upgrade mine :)

I know that you can't post any info, can you at least tell us how long it takes in rosetta to complete a work?

ps : i've been trying to make it run under osx x86 but i don't know what command line to use, can you help me ?

[Charles Wirth]

~ 42K Rosetta

[Charles Wirth]

The key is to make a good boot CD and getting the xponmac installed.

When you hold ALT I think you get a boot menu to select boot device. Are you getting that far?

[antipop]

I'm trying to make Rosetta run from OSX using darwin

42K that's a nice bench

[Charles Wirth]

This is the CPU that came out of the Mini, stepping 8 yet has SL9 designation.

[bernie_the_one]

Fugger, i'm in the process of upgrading my mini to 2,16 GHz like you did, i upgraded the mini with 2 GIG of RAM , a 100 GB 7200 rpm Drive and a Pioneer DVR-K06. Everything seems to work flawless so far, tomorrow i will get the ES 2,16 GHz dual-core CPU and will drop in this last part of my update.

Hope it works! Some picts and maybe a .mov which shows how to replace the cpu will be posted on the web soon.

Any recommendations for extra-cooling or is there nothing more needed?

Thanks for this great thread, will point back to your forum in my posts.

-- bernie

[Charles Wirth]

It will be fine, the fan is on auto and will adjust to what it feels is needed on the fly.

[[XC] moddolicous]

Does that mean that Conroe might work as well?

[tonyl]

It is possible to drop in Merom into Mini, one hell of an upgrade path.

confirming this is a working combo, just drop the chip in.

Could you benchmark it with Merom in your mini? That's really an exciting news!

[Charles Wirth]

Rosetta

Yonah 38K @ 2.16Ghz
Merom 42K @ 2Ghz

That is all I ran other than system info

[tonyl]

Here is a pic of a worlds first Merom enabled Mini


I think intel mini owners will be thankful for your adventures.:toast:

[Charles Wirth]

And the distributed processesing community as well. Showing how strong they are will surely attract buyers for low cost, low power, dual processor nodes.

[bernie_the_one]

Thanks FUGGER for this great work again!

Since about 2 hours my mini runs with a core duo 2,16 GHz, absolutly flawlessly, im very happy with it!

And it is very speedy now!

If someone wants me to do some benchmarking please respond and tell me how to do it, i think it would be very informative to have benchmarks for a mac min core duo 2,16 GHZ with 2 GIG RAM and a 7200 rpm drive (100 GIG).

[serpent]

thats my exact setup I will try to do some bench marks over this weekend

[ComatoseTed]

can the macbook pro, the mac mini or the imac be overclocked?
is it possible to copy the firmware from the 2.18 to the 1.83?
or can you get into the EFI and clock it from there? or is it a hardware transistor on the motherboard?

I would like to know! PLEASE!:toast:

[kaidomac]

Fugger, i'm in the process of upgrading my mini to 2,16 GHz like you did, i upgraded the mini with 2 GIG of RAM , a 100 GB 7200 rpm Drive and a Pioneer DVR-K06. Everything seems to work flawless so far, tomorrow i will get the ES 2,16 GHz dual-core CPU and will drop in this last part of my update.

Hope it works! Some picts and maybe a .mov which shows how to replace the cpu will be posted on the web soon.

Any recommendations for extra-cooling or is there nothing more needed?

Thanks for this great thread, will point back to your forum in my posts.

-- bernie

Did you need to use PatchBurn to get the DVR-K06 to work?

[bernie_the_one]

Did you need to use PatchBurn to get the DVR-K06 to work?

No Patchburn needed for me. Starting from an OSX CD works great, Burning in the Finder or TOAST works, iTunes works, iDVD not tested yet. DVD-RAM works via Disk-Utility and Finder, so nothing more needed for me..

[faquin]

Hello
Did someone tryed the new firmware for the mac mini? Can we still change the processor or did Apple blocked it??

[bernie_the_one]

Hello
Did someone tryed the new firmware for the mac mini? Can we still change the processor or did Apple blocked it??

No Problem here, Firmware and update to 10.4.6 runs smoothly. WIN XP flys under the 2.16 dual mini with BootCamp!

[thegreek]

No Problem here, Firmware and update to 10.4.6 runs smoothly. WIN XP flys under the 2.16 dual mini with BootCamp!
can you run some benches in xp with the mini?

[Magnj]

yes please do!

[bernie_the_one]

can you run some benches in xp with the mini?

Tell me what bench-programs and who to load and what to do then i will tell you how is it going...

[trickydickie]

I do not have spd programmer, I am close to manufacture to where they will build what I need.

I have DDR2 to SODIMM adapters, I can test SODIMM in P5WD2-E.

It has a pretty good fan on it, upgrading the heatsink to copper is very possible since the mounting is standard. It would be very easy to install a water block and run the water lines out the air duct in the back of it.

This block fits, even a gimpy water rig is more than enough on this cpu.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38112


Can you tell me where you got yr DDR2 SODIMM to DIMM adapters - I am after some to test some SODIMM's on my DFI 915P board.

[Charles Wirth]

I have them at my office but if you can find the image, call the phone number printed on them so they can send you updated catalog.

[sauria]

Thanks FUGGER for this great work again!

Since about 2 hours my mini runs with a core duo 2,16 GHz, absolutly flawlessly, im very happy with it!

And it is very speedy now!

If someone wants me to do some benchmarking please respond and tell me how to do it, i think it would be very informative to have benchmarks for a mac min core duo 2,16 GHZ with 2 GIG RAM and a 7200 rpm drive (100 GIG).


I'd love to see XBench results! Thanks!
http://xbench.com/

[kb9skw]

FUGGER, the datasheet shows that the Core CPUs use BSEL encoding for BCLK frequency, so a simple wire in the socket mod should do the trick to overclock the CPUs.
133 (533) and 166 (667) are clearly marked, with two other options set as "RESERVED". 10 to 1 the two reserved are 200 (800) and 266 (1066) frequencies.

Would you be willing to try this?

[\Karting_freak]

@FUGGER
how do you test sodimm mem @ p5wd2?
does it work if i simply plug it?

do you have a scheme of so-dimm programmer? i know where to find ddr1 one, but not so-dimm ((

[hide5b2a]

Fugger,
I have a stupid question for you.
Is the upgrade plug n play?
My friend is working at intel and probably able to get me a cheap core duo chip.
I really don't know anything beyond normal usage of the computer.
I need a core duo mini to play HD movie.
If it is truely plug n play, I definately want to upgrade it.
Thanks

[antipop]

You just have to open the mini, disassmble the inside, remove the heatsink, switch cpu and reassemble everything. It's as simple as that

[Charles Wirth]

Its just plug and play.

I would suggest researching the dissassembly of the mini before doing so, having pictures to where the clips will save you a lot of time and damage to the case.

[hide5b2a]

Thanks for the answer,
One more question.....
do you guys think $155 for a 1.83Ghz core duo is a good deal?
I wish I could get a 2.0, but 1.83 is what I can get.
Thank you

[\Karting_freak]

FUGGER
any news on installing xp on mac?
was in apple center here in moscow today. everything ran smoothly. could even play nfs:mw ))

[sauria]

Here is a good video of the process of disassembly:
http://media.macsales.com/videos/mini/intel/highres.html

[\Karting_freak]

how many hdds can i plug into mini?
which ones are they?

[Charles Wirth]

Only one spot for hard drive and nothing else.

[\Karting_freak]

@fugger
can some more spots be brazed on mobo? no expansion slots in mini like pci, right?

[Charles Wirth]

Nothing more can be put in it but if it were possible to get clock gen on it and overclock it, I know I could get a waterblock on the CPU and lines run out the back where the air passage is.

[kaidomac]

how many hdds can i plug into mini?
which ones are they?

Internally, there is only room for one 2.5" SATA drive. However, if you're up for some modding, you can do better than that. Serpent and I have been working on various adapters for both the ATA and SATA busses. You can actually use a single 3.5" SATA drive on the SATA bus and up to 2 slimline or full-sized ATA drives on the ATA bus. You can also use 2.5" ATA hard drives on the ATA bus if you wish.

SATA: Single 2.5" or 3.5" SATA hard drive (no SATA optical drive that I know of supports OS X yet)
ATA: Single or dual 2.5" or 3.5" ATA hard drive, slimline optical drive, or 5.25" optical drive

Getting the SATA adapter is a piece of cake, but the ATA connector is a real pain. It involves a special part from China as well as a couple other adapters and some custom fabrication. We'll post more info once we get things nailed down if you want.

[\Karting_freak]

kaidomac
tnks for that info!
but i think i need to use another psu to run single sata drive ((
or atleast mod standard one ))

[kaidomac]

kaidomac
tnks for that info!
but i think i need to use another psu to run single sata drive ((
or atleast mod standard one ))

I see three options here:

1. Run the drive from the Mini (maybe; depends on the wattage requirement of the 3.5" SATA drive you use)
2. Use a power supply (moddable to switched or relay-start)
3. Use an external hard drive enclosure's power supply (easiest solution)

Personally, I am going to try running a PSU off a relay with the Mini since I will be powering a couple other drives as well.

[kaidomac]

To Fugger, Serpent, and the rest of you with processor upgrades: has the heat significantly increased due to the processor upgrade? The reason I ask is because I'd like to pick up a 13.3" MacBook, if Apple really does release them, and I'm sure they're not going to come stock with a 2ghz or 2.16ghz Core Duo option. I don't want to melt the chassis with an upgrade, so I'm hoping that the added heat is nominal enough to perform the upgrade successfully.

[antipop]

kaidomac, wait until the macbook is release to see if a cpu upgrade is possible, my bet is that the cpu will be soldered to the mobo like the macbook pro

[kaidomac]

kaidomac, wait until the macbook is release to see if a cpu upgrade is possible, my bet is that the cpu will be soldered to the mobo like the macbook pro

Yup, it's soldered according to iFixit and other sources. Not a big deal, however, since they offer it with a 2ghz Core Duo. I think I'm going to wait until the second release of the MacBooks to pick on up, however. So far I have heard the following complaints: whining on AC while charging, "mooing" sound from the fans spinning up and down quickly, sharp edges in the wrist area, and heat issues (most likely from the excessive thermal paste application). I'm sure there are a few more that I'm not remembering right now, but that's enough to make me wait. Going to start on my super Mini project though; I'll post back when I complete it :)

[Ender17]

anyone try a Merom in a Mini?

[antipop]

anyone try a Merom in a Mini?
Fugger did and it works

[wildcard]

Nice work FUGGER!

This may be a good way for me to test the water in the Mac area without spending too much.

[kaidomac]

Meroms are due out next week. Pricing is supposed to be as follows:

$600+ - T7600 (2.33GHz)
$423 - T7400 (2.13Ghz)
$294 - T7200 (2.00Ghz)

2.33ghz Merom + 32gb Samsung flash drive + uncapped GMA950 = :) Hurry up hackers!

[couppi]

Kaidomac, how did you fit a 3.5" drive into there?

[sauria]

Meroms are due out next week. Pricing is supposed to be as follows:

$600+ - T7600 (2.33GHz)
$423 - T7400 (2.13Ghz)
$294 - T7200 (2.00Ghz)

2.33ghz Merom + 32gb Samsung flash drive + uncapped GMA950 = :) Hurry up hackers!
I want to see that!

[dogsx2]

Meroms are due out next week. Pricing is supposed to be as follows:

$600+ - T7600 (2.33GHz)
$423 - T7400 (2.13Ghz)
$294 - T7200 (2.00Ghz)




Link :stick:

[kaidomac]

Link :stick:

http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/06/05/intelcomputex/index.php

[kaidomac]

I want to see that!

If you like that, check out PQI's SSD offering, due in August:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2763

Definately hot!

[kaidomac]

Kaidomac, how did you fit a 3.5" drive into there?

I didn't :) There's no way a Mini could fit a 3.5" drive stock. You can either buy an external enclosure, such as the MiniStack (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ministack/), or do what I'm doing and pick up a full-sized case to put everything in. You just need the appropriate adapters for everything. PM me if you're interested in a project like this, I'll give you more info!

[kaidomac]

I bit the bullet and picked up a 2ghz T2500 Core Duo. Implant was successful; thanks Fugger for pioneering the way! After a few minutes with both cores running at max, my Mini got up to a comfortable 83C, a few degrees under most 2ghz MacBook Pros at max. Fan hardly made any noise at this temp; fan was dead silent at the rest of the temps (about 60F). Very happy with the upgrade; looking forward to a 2.33ghz Merom with 4mb l2 in the future.

Oh, I also made an installation video; I'll post it when I get it all cleaned up and compressed.

[sauria]

I bit the bullet and picked up a 2ghz T2500 Core Duo. Implant was successful; thanks Fugger for pioneering the way! After a few minutes with both cores running at max, my Mini got up to a comfortable 83C, a few degrees under most 2ghz MacBook Pros at max. Fan hardly made any noise at this temp; fan was dead silent at the rest of the temps (about 60F). Very happy with the upgrade; looking forward to a 2.33ghz Merom with 4mb l2 in the future.

Oh, I also made an installation video; I'll post it when I get it all cleaned up and compressed.


Thanks, I'd love to see that!

[kaidomac]

Thanks, I'd love to see that!

I should have it up by this weekend. I have a new mic coming in for my computer so I can do some voiceovers. It's just 320x240 off my digital camera, so it's a little dark, but it's easy to follow.

[sauria]

I should have it up by this weekend. I have a new mic coming in for my computer so I can do some voiceovers. It's just 320x240 off my digital camera, so it's a little dark, but it's easy to follow.

Any pics appreciated!

[mike]

after a conversion the fan is always on full power ( even with CPU "cold" ) - I checked both the HDD temp probe an CPU temp probe connectors and both appear to have a a good connection.

Myabe somehow one of the probes is internally broken - or is there something else that could cause this? Any other suggestions to look into - ALSO suggestionswhere and what repacement probes to get???

[Charles Wirth]

The connector next the battery at the front of the case controls fan speed. If you disco that lead it will force the fan to high speed.

[Knux]

Hi Fugger,

Do You think I can change the Core Solo processor in my Mac Mini for a Merom Core 2 Duo?

I think that the 1.5GHz Core Solo belongs to the Yonah brand, so It should work fine... or not?

Would It be just plug 'n play? Or would I have to do any other changes in the system?

[BigSteve]

In terms of CPU model numbers, it came with a T1300 and you replaced it with a T7400?

[edit] Whoops, I see in the original article you replaced it with a T2600. But Meroms have been implanted successfully? What about heat?

[sauria]

Any ASP screenshots for the Core 2 Duo?

[Charles Wirth]

Knux that is what I did back in March. I dropped in a Merom without any problems at all.

[ShootStraight]

Update.

The plastic clips that retain the CPU bracket will break after the third removal even if you are very careful. New ones can be found on chipset heatsink or old mobo's if you can find the right diameter ones...

Missed that one! :)

Any suggestions as to how to remedy this? I just snapped one off and I dont have a spare board lying around. Is there an aftermarket copper kit that might work in place of?

Any help would be much appreciated.

-SS

[flavoraid]

FUGGER!!!

nice work mate

im gonna need to bug you for some info.

[flavoraid]

have you tried 2gb ddr2?
is there any complication installing a larger 2.5" hdd?

[p4bus800]

Knux that is what I did back in March. I dropped in a Merom without any problems at all.
:D pls show Merom pic :toast:

[Charles Wirth]

Not sure if I have one out of the system.

[p4bus800]

hihi... I have just add Merom for my Macmini

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n280/p4bus800/Core2Duo.jpg

:D thanks @FUGGER :toast: :toast:

[cdickinson66]

Can this upgrade be applied to the current MAC Mini models??

Has anyone taken one apart to see if the newer dual core 1.66 and 1.8 models are soldered down or in a socket as the old singles?

A new dual 1.66GHz models go for 599. Where as older 1.5Ghz models are still ebaying for 500 on average. Doesn't seem worth getting an older one, but would like to keep the option open for a future upgrade of course.

Anyone know?

Thanks!
-Charles

[ShootStraight]

Theyre in a socket, and are upgradable to the Core2 duo (Merom) versions up to 2.33 clocks.

I'd get a 1.5 core solo for +-$400 on ebay and upgrade to a 2.16 - 2.33 Merom. 2.16 Merom are on ebay for $350 making the grand total $750. Sure beats a 1.83 Coreduo for $799.

-SS

[psyconut713]

i got a 1.5 for about 350 from a compusa, then a merom off here (2.33) for 450, then put 2GB in it, all for under 1000$, runs great, but the fan spins high, any ideas?

[elec999]

Can anyone confirm, are the new mac minis cpus soldered.
Thanks

[cdickinson66]

350 !!! at Compusa????

Where? When??

I haven't seen one go on ebay for less then 450. I've checked all the completed listings in the past month or so. Plus shipping that usually comes to at least 500. If you see one for 400 email me! cdickinson66 at hotmail dot com

for an extra 99 you can drive to the mac store and buy a new shiny one. And if the new ones are socketed then I can upgrade that

So I guess back to the original question:
Has anyone apart a new one to see if it is soldered or socketed?

Thanks Guys!

-Charles

[illmatik]

i got a 1.5 for about 350 from a compusa, then a merom off here (2.33) for 450, then put 2GB in it, all for under 1000$, runs great, but the fan spins high, any ideas?

Make sure that black wire near the front rightof the mini stays connected when you put it back together. Then upgrade the firmware again (should let you after cpuupgrade) and you should be golden

Also.. Pram reset helps (windows-alt-p-r during bootup)... let it ding at least 3 times.

[dpedini]

The T7600 will be here next week along with 200GB HD ( its not easy finding a SATA 2.5 Drive) and the 2GB of RAM

I'm trying to souce a Copper heat sink ( willing to commision one) since the product I use on the top of the chips will eat the Aluminum up.

also trying to find out if here is a way of using 2 2GB sodimms the mac book pro can have up to 3.5GB of ram so I'm looking to what they are using.

the chip is not sodered in its a socket.

will also see if once the Core 2 Duo is in if I can enable the WIFI "N" I'm using the new airport extreme and it will support a,b,g, and N only on Core 2 Duo

Also looking to change the siliver anodiesed case to maybe a blue or a red.

I will keep you posted with pictures..

the goal is to have a mini in a Zeor case with a 23" monitor for presentions..

anyone have a good lead on the video upgrade?


TIP: to open the case you can use a pizza cutter or use a pice of blue spring steel its very very thin yet very strong. or you can also us the can opener form a swiss army knife ( yes it works very thin edge to it)

thansks for all the hard work for thoughs who have forged the path be me.

Dennis

[dpedini]

ok its been upgraded with a T7600 2.33 proc and two 1GB mem chips and I also thur in an air port extreme 'N' card while I was in there.. I decided not to install a new hard drive yet.

the card has only one antnena on it so its not that fast only 130MB as you can see I will try to get another one to add to the one that is allready in there.

http://www.pedini.com/clientuploads/AppleStuff/macminiwithn.JPG

DP

[kar]

I was going to ask if it is possible to put in a 2.8Ghz processor, since the 2.33Ghz ones are no longer available.

But then I bought a 2.8Ghz Pentium D processor, and the heatsink it comes with is HUGE! Also, it is in a metal case, not a bare silicon chip like the 1.66Ghz model.

Anyway, I decided to sell the CPU and instead get a laptop. But I'm curious: can the 2.8Ghz CPU with the aluminum case be used in a 1.66Ghz Mac Mini?

[Vapor]

No. Different socket too....actually, lots of reasons why it won't.

EDIT: you can use a Merom though.

[kar]

The box says this is socket 775. The Mac Mini has socket 775.

What is Merom? Neither the chip boxes nor the online searches show "merom", so it's hard to find them to buy them or price them.

There's Pentium D, there's Core Duo, there's Core 2 Duo, it's a zoo of names and acronyms.

[lowfat]

The Mac Mini is not LGA775. It is socket 479. Merom is a mobile Core 2 Duo.

[denniswise9]

hey there,

have just got my mac mini up to a t2500 2 GHZ and 2 GB ram. It is very fast thanks for the excellent guide. One question though, under load the CPU ambient temperature rises to about 80/81 'C is this normal and ok or will it cause permanent damage? The actual core temperature reads normally about 5-8 'C less but still seems high, just wanted to check if its overheating or if it is ok?

I know you can also unplug the black wire t put the fan on full speed but is that gonna screw up the fan after a while?

Any help appreciated, and thanks again for the great guide,

DW9.

[kaidomac]

I'm really getting the upgrade itch. I have a Core Duo Mac Mini; I know that the newer Core 2 Duo Minis support up to 4GB RAM (~3.3GB recognized and usable), but that isn't enough for me to warrant an upgrade. I'd really love to see the Santa Rosa platform come to the Mini.

[kaidomac]

The rumors I've heard say that a new Mini or "Cube 2" will be released by February 2008 at the latest; it's supposed to have some kind of gaming or dedicated video card. The two rumors I've heard are either a beefed up Mini or a Cube 2 with a little more space. I'll take either one! :D

[AusS2000]

Hi all, sorry to be late to the party.

What is the current state of upgrades for Mac Minis?

Am I right in assuming the limiting issues are the form factor (socket) and bus speed (667Mhz)?

So historically the T7600 (2.33Ghz) is the fastest chip we can use but in reality it's the T7400 (2.16Ghz) as the T7600 is no longer made?

My current Mac Mini is a 1.83Ghz Core Duo. What sort of performance jump can I expect from a 2.16Ghz Core 2 Duo?

[Moto7451]

I'm running the 2.0GHz Merom in my Mini and it was a nice, noticeable, boost from my 1.66GHz Core Duo.