Just Ordered My 1st WCing setup, approve?

[Makubex_GB]

After a lot of reading and questioning I finally decided on all the parts I wanted for my 1st water cooling setup... and I just ordered them :D . The only thing missing are the hose clamps because I'm going to buy them locally. So here are the parts I ordered, let me know what you guys think:

Waterblock: Swiftech MCW6002

GPU Block: Danger Den Low Profile Acetal MAZE4

Pump: AquaXtreme 50z

Radiator: Swiftech Radiator - MCR220 DUAL 120mm - Black
(This one took a lot of thinking since I wanted something that cooled really well with relatively silent fans and that it wasn't super expensive (ie. ThermoChill). After talking to some of you guys and comparing the specs, I decided to pick this over a BIP II).

Tubing: 13' Tygon 3603 1/2" ID, 3/4" OD Clear Tubing

Reservoir: Swiftech MCRES-525™ "BAY RES" (It's not acrylic so there's less chance for leaks)

(I know, I know... you're thinking "should have just made a T line instead of getting a reservoir". I thought about it and decided to go for the res.)

Fluid: 64oz of FluidXP High Performance (new @ FrozenCPU)

(Again, some of you are thinking "should have just gone with distilled water and zerex." But again, I thought about it and since I could afford it this time I decided to pay for a little "insurance" even at the cost of a very few degrees. Plus, these new FluidXP fluids (High Performance and Extreme) are suppose to cool better).

Ramsinks: Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper BGA Ramsinks

and last but not least... a new "roof" to put it all in...


Case: Lian Li PC-7077 with window
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/images/large/products/PC-7077W_1_t_LRG.jpg

Got it silver cuz black was out of stock... and since I like both colors anyway I didn't mind. :)

I also ordered an extra Hard Drive cage (EX-34 Expansion Hard Drive Kit) to mount the rest of my HDDs (got 4, plus one that I'm getting soon) and to put an extra 120mm fan at the front.

My plan is to make 2 120mm holes at the top and mount the radiator there. I'm still not sure if I want to make the fans on the rad intake or outtake air to or from my case (of course either way the air is going through the rad).

So, what do you guys think of my choices of parts? Did I did good? Remember, this is my first time watercooling, so be gentle. :p:

[Viktor]

Looks good, you've chosed blocks that doesn't need highflow pums, thus the 50z should work really well. I would skip the additive thought, you wont need it since you'll be using copper only components !

[Makubex_GB]

Looks good, you've chosed blocks that doesn't need highflow pums, thus the 50z should work really well. I would skip the additive thought, you wont need it since you'll be using copper only components !
FluidXP is not an additive, it is a non-conductive water replacement. You know, for in case I have a leak. I gotta protect my investment you know. ;)

[Viktor]

FluidXP is not an additive, it is a non-conductive water replacement. You know, for in case I have a leak. I gotta protect my investment you know. ;)
Ahh, okey. I think it's useless though, destilled water isn't that conductive and your components should be fine even if there's a leak somewhere.

[[486]]

distilled water will be conductive if it gets anything in it if you microwave a cup of that it wont boil [completely pure] then [don't do this] if you drop even a spoon in it it will boil instantly burning your face off and the boiling part means theres dirt in it so it's conductive try boiling the "distilled" water that comes outta your system it will boil because there is stuff in the blocks and tubing

[DemonOfTheFall]

']distilled water will be conductive if it gets anything in it if you microwave a cup of that it wont boil [completely pure] then [don't do this] if you drop even a spoon in it it will boil instantly burning your face off and the boiling part means theres dirt in it so it's conductive try boiling the "distilled" water that comes outta your system it will boil because there is stuff in the blocks and tubing

WHAT?!

Are you telling me that pure water doesn't boil ?

[mgleason007]

WHAT?!

Are you telling me that pure water doesn't boil ?
I think that's what he's trying to say, which is bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:y.

The setup looks good :clap:

[[486]]

it was on MythBusters

[kamongear]

Yea its true pure water doesnt boil. Why dont you try it but make sure a friend can drive you to the emergency room.

[creidiki]

Nice kit. Could have gone with something more restrictive than a 6002, i run a storm... but still, a great cpu block anyway :)

Drop the FluidXP. It just gunks up yout system. Pure DeIonized Water is about as conductive, and much cheaper. If you insulate the socket under the CPU you can do full-immersion cooling with DI, so I guarantee you its not a problem, but cleaning the leftovers from FXP wont be much fun.

[Makubex_GB]

Nice kit. Could have gone with something more restrictive than a 6002, i run a storm... but still, a great cpu block anyway :)
Hehe well yeah of course the Storm would be better, but it costs much more $$$. Hell, if I had more money I would've bought the G5 :). But from what I read this is suppose to be the next best thing. Then again, it's all based on what I've read, not actually tested.



Drop the FluidXP. It just gunks up yout system. Pure DeIonized Water is about as conductive, and much cheaper. If you insulate the socket under the CPU you can do full-immersion cooling with DI, so I guarantee you its not a problem, but cleaning the leftovers from FXP wont be much fun.
Ok people, you have to understand this. Once your precious distilled water hits your components it's not going to be pure anymore and it WILL conduct electricity. Unless your PC it's in a vacuum, it will have particles that once they mix with pure water they will become electrolytes and conduct electricity, unlike FluidXP.

Fortunately with FluidXP, unlike with MCT-40/5, cleaning it shouldn't be much of a problem because it's biodegradable and does not cause galvanic corrosion. It even says on it's features: "if spilled in system, no need to clean between chips on board etc." Of course I would still clean though, but it shouldn't be that bad to clean. Plus I prefer cleaning the FluidXP off my "still working" components than cleaning my case of fried components.

Like I said before, I'm happy to sacrifice a few degrees for a little insurance. And with the new High Performance / Extreme FluidXP (I got HP) the difference in temps between water and FluidXP should be even smaller.

Thanks for your opinions, though. Keep'em coming! :D

[mgleason007]

Am I the only one that took Chemistry? H20 has a boiling point of 100* C. That's like saying pure water won't freeze at 0* C. http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/data.html

[[486]]

the impurities cause it to boil like rain forms around dust and salt makes it boil quicker

[Makubex_GB]

']the impurities cause it to boil like rain forms around dust and salt makes it boil quicker
Actually, adding solutes to water (like salt for example) makes the water take longer to boil.
Just like mgleason007 said, water (pure water) at sea level boils at 100C and freezes at 0C.

[wizboy11]

Am I the only one that took Chemistry? H20 has a boiling point of 100* C. That's like saying pure water won't freeze at 0* C. http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/data.html

Pure water WILL NOT boil. It gets superheated, then if you disturbe the water, it explodes and burns off your face. (so don't try it).

And it was on mythbusters. I think is has something to do with the surface tension of the water, or some chemistry thing.

[mgleason007]

']the impurities cause it to boil like rain forms around dust and salt makes it boil quicker
If you're saying that pure water never boils then you need to go back to Chemistry class. Everything has a boiling point.

[mgleason007]

Pure water WILL NOT boil. It gets superheated, then if you disturbe the water, it explodes and burns off your face. (so don't try it).

And it was on mythbusters. I think is has something to do with the surface tension of the water, or some chemistry thing.
Yeah if you're dumb enough to microwave it. EDIT: And once you break the surface tension, it instantly boils, sooooooo...

[Makubex_GB]

Pure water will boil unless it's sealed under pressure or in a vacuum.

The Myth is about heating up water in the microwave. It has a special parameter, so it's not true for all situations. Try heating up pure water on a stove top, see if it won't boil. Actually try this, measure the time it takes for pure water to boil on a stove top and then measure the time it takes for water with salt diluted in it to boil. See which one takes the longest to reach boiling point.

[wizboy11]

Yeah if you're dumb enough to microwave it. EDIT: And once you break the surface tension, it instantly boils, sooooooo...

Thats what i meant, I just didn't word it right.

This is a water cooling thread, and were talking about how water boils? :confused: ;)

[Makubex_GB]

Hahaha, well at least we're talking about water... :p:

[mnewxcv]

i think ill try it.......but throw a spoon from like 100ft away.

[MaxxxRacer]

Some interesting info from virginia state physics department.

http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/microwave_ovens.html

Makubex_GB: your setup looks great. You know how I dont like coolant additives/replacements, but inspite of that your setp looks good

[creidiki]

FluidXP/MCT-x WILL gunk up in your system. Its just the way they are. If you want to spend money on un-needed, expensive stuff with less thermal performance that gunks up your loop, go right ahead, but we did warn you :)

[Cpt Twitchy]

This water boiling topic may have been on myth busters but not everything they deam false or true is correct (do not get me wrong I like the show and watch it. Most of it is right anyway but always room for error) For example one of their myths had to do with aim mirrors at a boat or something like taht and tryingto get it to explode. They said it was unattainable so a group of kids from MIT attempted it and guess what. It blew up. Also getting water in a 100% pure sertile enviroment would be extremely hard imo due to the need to sterilize the container in which being boiled and finding a non contaminating material that gets along with the microwave.

EDIT Very nice system you are putting together there. Nice choice of parts.

[mgleason007]

So are we all clear now that pure H2O boils?

[wizboy11]

So are we all clear now that pure H2O boils?

Yes it boils, but (i think) only when the surface tension is broken, or something like that.

Also, will Hydrx clog up a storm or a WC loop?

[Nicksterr]

Hydrx? Swiftech Hydrx? I think not since Swiftech sell sit and says to use it for the Storm in their manuel. :)

[afireinside]

Bottom line is you're wasting money and losing performance using that crap. Distilled water is fine. You should leak test before installing if you're that worried. I've also had a motherboard sit in a pool of tap water for over an hour and it worked as good as new 2 days later.

[MaxxxRacer]

i too have had very large spills on the mobo (water leaked all over the cpu area).. I dried off the mobo, cleaned it with some alcohol, and had the system running like new within 2 hours..

So really, the paranoia about water leaking is a bit overdone.

[Makubex_GB]

Yes it boils, but (i think) only when the surface tension is broken, or something like that.

Also, will Hydrx clog up a storm or a WC loop?
Even if you leave water alone on pot on a stove it will boil.




Bottom line is you're wasting money and losing performance using that crap. Distilled water is fine. You should leak test before installing if you're that worried. I've also had a motherboard sit in a pool of tap water for over an hour and it worked as good as new 2 days later.


too have had very large spills on the mobo (water leaked all over the cpu area).. I dried off the mobo, cleaned it with some alcohol, and had the system running like new within 2 hours..

So really, the paranoia about water leaking is a bit overdone.
Either your system was turned off at the time of the leak or your both very lucky. If you leak water while your system is turned off, then no worries, you just let it dry and that's it. But if it happens while it's turned on the it's gonna be spark-fest 2006. If your leaks happened while your systems were turned on and they didn't fry than consider yourselves very lucky, it's not likely to happen. Even after leak tests accidents do happen. Even if it's not probable it is possible. I myself have my PC on practically 24/7, so to me this "crap" was a good investment.

If you think water is so safe let's play a game. You pour 3oz tab or distilled water on your video card and I'll pour FluidXP HP (or "crap" like afireinside likes to refer it as) on my video card while the cards are actively working and running in our PCs. Let's see which video card dies and which doesn't. ;)

[creidiki]

Neither will die.

[Makubex_GB]

Neither will die.
Hahaha, wanna bet? :D

Then try it... if you're brave enough. ;)

[creidiki]

I dont have to. Im running all my rig on pure DI, isnt that enough show of confidence?

Ive used MCT-5 before. I spent a happy half hour cleaning all my blocks out from the :banana::banana::banana::banana:e it leaves in them.

Like I said before, if you want to completely ignore what more knowledgeable people tell you and waste your cash on something thats counterproductive... go right ahead, its your cash. but please, dont try to convince me of how good that crap is, ive used it and its just that, crap.

[Makubex_GB]

I dont have to. Im running all my rig on pure DI, isnt that enough show of confidence?

Ive used MCT-5 before. I spent a happy half hour cleaning all my blocks out from the :banana::banana::banana::banana:e it leaves in them.

Like I said before, if you want to completely ignore what more knowledgeable people tell you and waste your cash on something thats counterproductive... go right ahead, its your cash. but please, dont try to convince me of how good that crap is, ive used it and its just that, crap.
First of all, I'm not trying to convince anyone that it's good, I'm saying it's not a bad investment. You guys were the ones who first started trying to convince me that it's a bad idea, why I can't counter it with my ideas?

Second, you haven't tried it, you tried MCT-5, which is another product. Like I said before, and I quote: "Fortunately with FluidXP, unlike with MCT-40/5, cleaning it shouldn't be much of a problem because it's biodegradable and does not cause galvanic corrosion. It even says on it's features: "if spilled in system, no need to clean between chips on board etc." Of course I would still clean though, but it shouldn't be that bad to clean. Plus I prefer cleaning the FluidXP off my "still working" components than cleaning my case of fried components."

Third, no, just by using water in your setup doesn't show your confidence that if you spill it on your vid card nothing will happen to it. You're just confident that no leaks will occur to you.

[MaxxxRacer]

my computer was on when the spill happened..

the water got between the pins of the cpu and the system locked up.. i turned the system off and a few minutes later found the water..

After drying it was all good.

And these are not isolated incidents. I know MANY ppl who have spilled water on their components and have been fine.. In fact, I think I have heard of only a few select ppl who have reported components dying from water leakages..

Ironically, ppl kill comonents more with condensation from phase change than spills from water leaks.

[Makubex_GB]

my computer was on when the spill happened..

the water got between the pins of the cpu and the system locked up.. i turned the system off and a few minutes later found the water..

After drying it was all good.

And these are not isolated incidents. I know MANY ppl who have spilled water on their components and have been fine.. In fact, I think I have heard of only a few select ppl who have reported components dying from water leakages..

Ironically, ppl kill comonents more with condensation from phase change than spills from water leaks.
Really? I've heard a lot more about people frying there PC with leaks than surviving the flood. Anyway, I'll have more peace in mind with FluidXP, I don't like gambling.

But now my question is, isn't phase change cooling setups suppose to have something to counter condensation? I know it has nothing to do with the subject, I'm just curious. :confused:

Btw, condensation = water. Told ya it kills :p:

[ppkstat]

Really? I've heard a lot more about people frying there PC with leaks than surviving the flood. Anyway, I'll have more peace in mind with FluidXP, I don't like gambling.

I agree with the guys, Fluid XP will get you lower temps, clog your system over an extented period and most importantly wil NOT get you any less conductivity in practise :nono:

But that wont change you mind, right? Thats ok i am a bit stubborn sometimes as well...


But now my question is, isn't phase change cooling setups suppose to have something to counter condensation? I know it has nothing to do with the subject, I'm just curious. :confused:

Oh ya they do. Insulation (armaflex, polish, etc) and vapo also has heatplates. But as you said accidents happen. And with phase theres also the whole pin rot issue.

[DemonOfTheFall]

WHAT?!

Are you telling me that pure water doesn't boil ?

I was fully clear on the fact that pure H20 will boil just fine.

I was just deriding his completely stupid statement.

[Makubex_GB]

I agree with the guys, Fluid XP will get you lower temps, clog your system over an extented period and most importantly wil NOT get you any less conductivity in practise :nono:
Did it happened to you? Have you used FluidXP for an extented period of time before? If so, which of the formulas? +, High Performance, Extreme? The latter two are new so I doubt it.

I guess we will have to wait and see. If it starts clogging I'll stop using it. But it IS less conductive in case of a leak.

Btw, I think you meant "raise" my temps, not lower them. And I know that, but it's worth the peace of mind IMO.

[Skulldor]

http://www.overclockersonline.com/index.php?page=articles&num=244

http://reviews.pimprig.com/cooling/fluidxp_non-conductive_coolant.php

http://www.extremereviews.net/data.php?recordID=135&page=1&type=review

http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/super_cooling/fluid_xp/

http://www.atruereview.com/fluidxp/index.php


Here are some reviews on FluidXP. Not many negatives.

[MadMikeSS]

I don't see why people get so paranoid about their watercooling. In a sense I can understand the worry people have. But if you follow people's advice and do things properly you won't have any issues. I have had a couple mishaps with my watercooling and they were all user error. If everything is proper put together and leak tested there won't be any issues. Leaks from tubing punctures are practically non-existent. Just take your time and things will go smoothly.

[Skulldor]

Very true. Accidents are easy to avoid with proper planning and attention to detail.

[Makubex_GB]

I don't see why people get so paranoid about their watercooling. In a sense I can understand the worry people have. But if you follow people's advice and do things properly you won't have any issues. I have had a couple mishaps with my watercooling and they were all user error. If everything is proper put together and leak tested there won't be any issues. Leaks from tubing punctures are practically non-existent. Just take your time and things will go smoothly.
Yup, I know is not probable, but there's a reason for the word "accident" to exist.

Plus, is not that easy to always do everything *perfect*... you know, being a human being and all. :p:

[GuitarFreak1857]

ok, heres some results from a lab we just conducted in chem:

Distilled H20: 67µs
Tap H20: 544µs

(thought that would help)

[ppkstat]

Did it happened to you? Have you used FluidXP for an extented period of time before? If so, which of the formulas? +, High Performance, Extreme? The latter two are new so I doubt it.

I guess we will have to wait and see. If it starts clogging I'll stop using it. But it IS less conductive in case of a leak.

Btw, I think you meant "raise" my temps, not lower them. And I know that, but it's worth the peace of mind IMO.

Yes, I meant raise, my mistake :)

I am referring to the + version (I actually never heard of the other two). A friend of mine was using that stuff on his system, and I can tell you it was very dissapointing. Don't have a clue bout the other versions though.

Good luck.

[afireinside]

My system was on. In the 10+ spills or condensation incidents I've had the only death was when I got condensation under every part of the pwm on my DFI NF3 and repeatedly tried to boot the system without knowing it. That is the same board that sat in a puddle for over an hour. My x800pro was covered in water on everything from the mems to the mosfets twice when benching dry ice on high humidity days. Hell my ghetto mounted socket A block leaked all over my DFI NF4 right after I got it and wet the entire CPU area. And don't forget the 3 or 4 times I under insulated and got the back of my board covered in water.

[MadMikeSS]

Yup, I know is not probable, but there's a reason for the word "accident" to exist.

Plus, is not that easy to always do everything *perfect*... you know, being a human being and all. :p:

Trust me, I know it well. :) I killed a 6800GT and nearly killed my 7800GTX and ram with leaks. :) But like I was saying, these incidents were caused by my own error, if I had clamped the hoses to the barbs properly I wouldn't have had this problem. Fortunately I was able to RMA the 6800GT (I remounted the stock cooler after cleaning it all up real good) and it was replaced.

[[486]]

they have a video of pouring it on a video card and wow alotta people can disagree :rotf:

[mgleason007]

Btw, condensation = water. Told ya it kills :p:
Condensation != distilled water.

[Serra]

The real crux of the arguement that distilled water is bad for your equipment would be more that the distilled water itself comes into contact with dust and other contaminents on your components, and thus becomes regular conductive water again.

Not really sure how much that would affect it, but after reading through a page and a half of people bantering back and forth about that, I thought I'd remind people of that fact because we should all know that properly distilled water is inconductive enough that it's mostly a non-issue and just debate whether the dust in your system would be enough to make the water conductive again.

Serra

[creidiki]

W/e. I'm going to sit here and wait for the inevitable "fluidxp clogged my system" thread in 4 months :)

[Makubex_GB]

W/e. I'm going to sit here and wait for the inevitable "fluidxp clogged my system" thread in 4 months :)
LoL, hopefully not. :)



Condensation != distilled water.
Where the hell is the word "distill" in what I said? :confused:

[mgleason007]

Where the hell is the word "distill" in what I said? :confused:

*sigh* Seriously?



If you think water is so safe let's play a game. You pour 3oz tab or distilled water on your video card and I'll pour FluidXP HP (or "crap" like afireinside likes to refer it as) on my video card while the cards are actively working and running in our PCs. Let's see which video card dies and which doesn't. ;)
Not even sure why you referenced tap water (I assume that's what you meant). No one here puts tap water in their system.



Btw, condensation = water. Told ya it kills :p:

[Makubex_GB]

*sigh* Seriously?


Not even sure why you referenced tap water (I assume that's what you meant). No one here puts tap water in their system.

Ok, first of all, here's a quote of someone using tap water:

Bottom line is you're wasting money and losing performance using that crap. Distilled water is fine. You should leak test before installing if you're that worried. I've also had a motherboard sit in a pool of tap water for over an hour and it worked as good as new 2 days later.

Second of all, once the distill water in your tubes mixes with all the impurities in your computer (since it leaked and touched the components in your rig) it's no longer pure and it will conduct electricity.

[mgleason007]

Second of all, once the distill water in your tubes mixes with all the impurities in your computer (since it leaked and touched the components in your rig) it's no longer pure and it will conduct electricity.
You're mixing up your arguments. Maxxx said that people with phase have problems from condensation. Condensation = water from the air != distilled water. You cannot use what Maxxx said about phase for your argument about using your crap, which you were trying to do. People have posted in this thread several times over that they've gotten distilled water on their components while running and nothing was ruined (happened to me a couple of times too).

Different things in pure water alter the conductivity of water differently. Salt IIRC gives water the highest conductivity because it completely ionizes in water. Now if I put, say, a chunk of plastic in pure water, nothing will happen, because plastic does not ionize in water.

[DemonOfTheFall]

I would have to have said that

Distilled water = Condensation

I may be wrong about this, due to condensation having picked up impurites from the air, but I don't really see how or whats wrong with my logic. I think this way because distilled water means condensed water. Eg. to make distilled water:

1. Boil Water
2. Allow it to condense.
3. You've got distilled water.

In my head anyway, condensed is pretty much equal to distilled...

[Makubex_GB]

You're mixing up your arguments. Maxxx said that people with phase have problems from condensation. Condensation = water from the air != distilled water. You cannot use what Maxxx said about phase for your argument about using your crap, which you were trying to do. People have posted in this thread several times over that they've gotten distilled water on their components while running and nothing was ruined (happened to me a couple of times too).

Different things in pure water alter the conductivity of water differently. Salt IIRC gives water the highest conductivity because it completely ionizes in water. Now if I put, say, a chunk of plastic in pure water, nothing will happen, because plastic does not ionize in water.
I'm not mixing anything, I was just saying to Maxxx that water does usually kill components. If you sprung a leak and your components survived, then congrats, you were lucky, have a cookie. That doesn't mean having distill water in your tubing will not cause damage to your system every time it leaks. There are also many other people who did kill their components because their distilled water setups leaked.

Yes, "different things in pure water alter the conductivity of water differently." and maybe nice clean plastic doesn't but DUST (which is present in every computer) can ionize water, leading to a disaster in you computer.

Look, nobody is trying to convince you to buy FluidXP, if you think it's a waste of money then don't buy it. But don't try to convince me that distilled water will work the same way. Read the reviews on FluidXP, they are all positive. Why? Because it works, you can spill it on your components and it won't kill them as distilled water usually does. Since I could afford the fluid this time, I decided to buy myself a little insurance. It's my 1st time watercooling so I want to make it safe. If your so confident about your precious distilled water go throw some on your video card while it's on, like the guy on the FluidXP video did. Let me know if you have the same luck this time.

[yngndrw]

.. And there was me thinking this was a Liquid Cooling forum, not a Liquid Insulation forum .. Damn.

[mgleason007]

I would have to have said that

Distilled water = Condensation

I may be wrong about this, due to condensation having picked up impurites from the air, but I don't really see how or whats wrong with my logic. I think this way because distilled water means condensed water. Eg. to make distilled water:

1. Boil Water
2. Allow it to condense.
3. You've got distilled water.

In my head anyway, condensed is pretty much equal to distilled...
Yes, but if you condense air, you do not get pure water. Boil water and condense the vapor, yes, that's distilled water.

[YanBooth]

Fluid XP doesn't work very well at all, and then it leaves white things in your rig, so I have been told.

Yan

[MaxxxRacer]

condensation isnt pure water, but its alot better than tap water. if you live in Los Angeles or New York, condensation isnt very clean, but say in Montana, t will be a tad bit cleaner.. It all depends on the air quality in the area...

Around LA, condensation will actaully be acidic alot of the time, which if you know anyting about chemistry, makes it a bit more conductive (acids= electrolytes = conductive)


The origioanl FluidXP leaves white particles in the loop. It is well known that it is not a homogenous liquid.. There are particulates floating about in it. I cant remember what the creator of FluidXP said they were, but he assured the public that the particulates were supposed to be there and wont hurt the sytem.. BUT it will clog up a storm or MP-05 (or any similarly designed waterblock) relatively quickly..

But as Makubex_GB points out (repeatedly) he will be using the new version of FluidXP, and not the old version.