Cebit 2006

[GoriLLakoS]

Quad sli 3d mark results live with 7800 dual core in one pcb....for sure..:D

quad 1600 and maybe 1900???

7800gs agp?

hybrid vga cards with agp+pcx slots....

[Starscream]

sounds wierd but i hope to see more of that MSI card that had 2 sockets in the PCB to put them nvidia MXM mobile GPUs in.

Btw have read (think on XS) that the 7900GTX wil b introduced and the GT later.
Maybe wel also see a faster 7300.

[turtle]

Vr-zone is saying March 9th (first day of CeBIT) for 7900GTX 512, and March 20th for the 7900gt with 256mb and 7600 series. They also mention that the 7900gt will probably be 24 pipes, which to me sounds like a 90nm 7800gtx, but most likely with better memory. They also mention the almighty "yield issue" rumour that noone likes to hear.

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3170

Like Perk said, the whole nvidia refresh (7300gs,7300(gt?),7600gs,7600gt,7900gt,7900gtx) should be shown there, as they are all supposedly set for Feb(7300)-March(7600/7900) release dates. Those should be interesting to watch, especially the 7600gt which vr-zone (again) is reporting to be 12pp with high clocks. There's a lot of budget gamers out there waiting for the next 6600gt, i'm wondering if this will come through.

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3168

As for PS3 and N's Rev, I don't expect to see a whole lot more until E3. Maybe Sony will show a little bit more on PS3 to prepare the japanese, but I think the bulk of both will be at E3, since will probably won't see them both at retail until Q3 or Q4.

On a side note, I hope ATi shows what's cooking behind closed doors, and someone leaks it. :P Be it from R535 to a R560 to a R580XL to a R590. I'm curious where the X1000 generation will lead to and end.

[metro.cl]

there is more but i cant tell

[turtle]

there is more but i cant tell

Tease. :p:

[perkam]

there is more but i cant tell lol...quite a tease there metro :)

Though we now know that the Nintendo Revolution will indeed be able to run the Unreal Engine 3....which is exciting news to nintendo fans.

Perkam

[metro.cl]

lol...quite a tease there metro :)

Though we now know that the Nintendo Revolution will indeed be able to run the Unreal Engine 3....which is exciting news to nintendo fans.

Perkam

i'm talking about ram, but that's all i can say if not i might get :slapass:

[turtle]

Hmm...

A GDDR4 X1000?

:stick:

(Nope, not letting that one die yet...:p: )

If my suspicions are anything close to reality, there will be a GDDR4 X1900 sometime between G71 and G80.

[ahmad]

GDDR4 fo shizzle.

Maybe some fancy motherboards? :stick:

[metro.cl]

Hmm...

A GDDR4 X1000?

:stick:

(Nope, not letting that one die yet...:p: )

If my suspicions are anything close to reality, there will be a GDDR4 X1900 sometime between G71 and G80.

i'm asking that tomorrow to ATI on the press release from the x1900 family here

[nn_step]

So who thinks GDDR4 and who thinks XDR for the upcoming ATi card

[FragTek]

I'm goin' with GDDR4...

[DilTech]

ATi hasn't signed on the XDR license yet, only NVidia has when it comes to graphics manufacturers.

ATi can only go GDDR4 currently.

[[XC] leviathan18]

ATi hasn't signed on the XDR license yet, only NVidia has when it comes to graphics manufacturers.

ATi can only go GDDR4 currently.

exactly nvidia has the license because they are going to use it for the ps3

[onewingedangel]

xdr would require a memory controller redesign, wheras gddr4 is already supported. A higher clocked and gddr4 equipped x1950xtx using an 80nm r590 core would certainly help ati keep competitive until r600 is finally allowed to be unleashed.

[turtle]

xdr would require a memory controller redesign, wheras gddr4 is already supported [in the x1k family-Turt]. A higher clocked and gddr4 equipped x1950xtx using an 80nm r590 core would certainly help ati keep competitive until r600 is finally allowed to be unleashed.

My thoughts exactly. The signs all point that way:

1. The ATi employee saying X1k is setup to allow up 1.5ghz bandwidth as opposed to the 800 offered now, and there is GDDR4 support. Coincidentally, 1.4ghz Samsung GDDR4 will be in mass production by Q2, right after G71 is released. Oddly enough, there will be 1.25ghz too...hmm...XT and XTX?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20051027082407.html

2. With TSMC going to 80nm half-node, I could see if this is the plan why ATi was apparently so happy. This would fit right in with said predicted plans as R590 would be a creature mutated on the R520/R580 level.

It would definately put ATi in an interesting position. Most likely the fastest card until at least G80, and perhaps a faster DX9 card than G80. Wouldn't be a bad step to make if your DX10 card is going to be a little bit later than the competition.

Let us know how it goes Metro, although you know ATi will probably say that they "don't comment on unreleased products..." :p:

As for XDR and GDDR4, said product R590 would definately be GDDR4. R600 is supposedly going to be GDDR4 (rumoured to be at 1.8ghz, a respectable jump from a R590 at 1.4). Beyond that, who knows.

[DilTech]

I'd personally like to see a few links confirming there's an R590 in existance at all...I keep an ear to the ground, and definitely hear about parts very early(sometimes much earlier than any news site posts them), and not a whisper has come my way talking about a R590.

Also, may I remind people of the R5xx roadmap, it ended at R580.

We might see a R590 in the form of a X1900XL at 80nm, much like how ATi made the R430 the X800xl, but I doubt seriously that ATi will chance another high-end shrink like that after the disaster that was the X1800XT launch.

As for GDDR4, we might see a X1900XT PE with GDDR4, but I don't see anything more than a paper launch if it's before april/may. There just won't be enough of it for a full scale launch before then.

[[XC] leviathan18]

Di do you think g80 as RSX of ps3 will use XDR?

[metro.cl]

My thoughts exactly. The signs all point that way:

1. The ATi employee saying X1k is setup to allow up 1.5ghz bandwidth as opposed to the 800 offered now, and there is GDDR4 support. Coincidentally, 1.4ghz Samsung GDDR4 will be in mass production by Q2, right after G71 is released. Oddly enough, there will be 1.25ghz too...hmm...XT and XTX?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20051027082407.html

2. With TSMC going to 80nm half-node, I could see if this is the plan why ATi was apparently so happy. This would fit right in with said predicted plans as R590 would be a creature mutated on the R520/R580 level.

It would definately put ATi in an interesting position. Most likely the fastest card until at least G80, and perhaps a faster DX9 card than G80. Wouldn't be a bad step to make if your DX10 card is going to be a little bit later than the competition.

Let us know how it goes Metro, although you know ATi will probably say that they "don't comment on unreleased products..." :p:

As for XDR and GDDR4, said product R590 would definately be GDDR4. R600 is supposedly going to be GDDR4 (rumoured to be at 1.8ghz, a respectable jump from a R590 at 1.4). Beyond that, who knows.


Bad news mate, we got a guy that knows a lot (David Nalasco) but he dint answer the question directly he confirme that x1900 family can use gddr4 but he said we'll have to see (regarding the use of it in x1900)

I also asked him when we could expect tu run crossfire in the high end without a mastercard because there where rumors that the new chipset would solve this, he again said we we'll have to see.

One good thing that i havent heard is that the improoved the pixel shardes in the x1900 series over the x1800 is not a huge improovement but there is something.

He confirmed that the 3dmark06 bug is because of software and the way futuremark implemented the shadows (a last minute change and no one tryed it on the x1900), he said that this time ati might be fixing this bug with a driver

He also said that the x1900 wont support dx10 he said that windows will be releasing a directx9.0l that works on the x1900 series that is goin to give the visual effects for the desktop in vista.

They also said that there wont be x1800 any more and it is goin to be complete replaced by the x1900 series.

This is one thing i found interesting see how good x1900 habdles h.624
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/217/dsc07707qf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Also they showed us a new kind of mapping they developed making things look much better. Plain surfaces dont look plain :confused:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/3006/dsc07495wa.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

So it wanst such a good press release here as the x1800 series, but they spent more money now ATI gave 3 kits for south america,including x1900xtx, x1900xt cf and also a crossfire mobo made by asus (with old chipset from ati). Good news is that we were the first site to get the kit :woot:
There was also a happy hour :D

[d@rkn1ko]

I would like to see conroe cpu :D

[krille]

I would like to see conroe cpu :DWhere do you see anything about Conroe? :confused:

[DilTech]

Di do you think g80 as RSX of ps3 will use XDR?

RSX uses G70, just a modified 90nm version of the 7800gtx 512mb gpu at 550mhz.

As for will it use XDR, probably, considering NVidia acquired a license for use of XDR, and XDR will be used in the PS3, one can safely assume that XDR will be used on the RSX.

It's where NVidia will be cutting it's teeth on a XDR memory controller I'd imagine.

[nn_step]

Di do you think g80 as RSX of ps3 will use XDR?
I don't think so but I think it would be an interesting surprise if they did..
They already have a working memory controller ported for it and most of the basics already work for it so perhaps

[Shadowmage]

R590 = 80nm R580 is all over the web now, as seen from a google search. It's even on Answer.com lol

I'm not sure where it was spotted. I think the R590 keyword, along with R505 and R535 were spotted on some ATI document (drivers?), and predictions were made from those numbers.

[DilTech]

Answer.com says it'll probably be the X1900XL, much like I said. Probably locked to a small overclock much like the x800xl was.

I doubt ATi will try another die shrink out with a high end part.


R590 - 80nm die shrink of R580, probably intended for a cheaper enthusiast board in a similar manner to the current R430/X800 XL.

[Cobalt]

As far as I know the X800XL wasn't "locked" in its overclock, it was just a kink in the manufacturing process. Unless thats what you ment in which case sorry.

[DilTech]

Afaik there was a crystal on the x800xl which is why it didn't overclock much without excessive voltage.

You really think they want a cheaper card to have the potential to outperform the top dog?.. 80nm would have the possibility of clocking higher than 90nm, they don't want that to happen.

[turtle]

I don't know if said R590 would be the same 80nm that x1900xl (if it exists) or R535 and the rest of the low-end refresh will be. Isn't it possible that R590 could be half-node, while the others are not? Half-node should supply a good deal of improvement with minimal hassle (according to everything i've seen) but the regular die shrink to 80nm planned for the lower-end refresh was planned well before TSMC made the announcement, hence why I think they could be more generic, like the craptacular 110nm x800xl.

Sure, I could be wrong, but I thought there were mentions of 80nm parts coming, and the fact R580 wasn't 80nm was because they needed time to perfect it and make it better. Could half-node be the betterness? Being that R600 is 65nm (http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3177) the only chance to use this half-node 80nm would be with a higher-end R580.

I just figure with G71 in March, and G80 in June...and the fact G71 will probably be better than the X1900XT (if you can live without HDR+AA)...and the fact R600 isn't coming until the end of the year...Something has to be cooking. ATi isn't going to wait 8-9 months to have competition with nvidia again, and the availability of GDDR4 will be right in-between G71 and G80...So even if they arn't, it would be in their best interest to get a leg up on G71, and something to compete with G80. Said guess on said product would fill said gap.

As for them not answering the questions Metro; not surprised. I wouldn't speak of future products when trying to sling my newest current products either.

[metro.cl]

I don't know if said R590 would be the same 80nm that x1900xl (if it exists) or R535 and the rest of the low-end refresh will be. Isn't it possible that R590 could be half-node, while the others are not? Half-node should supply a good deal of improvement with minimal hassle (according to everything i've seen) but the regular die shrink to 80nm planned for the lower-end refresh was planned well before TSMC made the announcement, hence why I think they could be more generic, like the craptacular 110nm x800xl.

Sure, I could be wrong, but I thought there were mentions of 80nm parts coming, and the fact R580 wasn't 80nm was because they needed time to perfect it and make it better. Could half-node be the betterness? Being that R600 is 65nm (http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3177) the only chance to use this half-node 80nm would be with a higher-end R580.

I just figure with G71 in March, and G80 in June...and the fact G71 will probably be better than the X1900XT (if you can live without HDR+AA)...and the fact R600 isn't coming until the end of the year...Something has to be cooking. ATi isn't going to wait 8-9 months to have competition with nvidia again, and the availability of GDDR4 will be right in-between G71 and G80...So even if they arn't, it would be in their best interest to get a leg up on G71, and something to compete with G80. Said guess on said product would fill said gap.

As for them not answering the questions Metro; not surprised. I wouldn't speak of future products when trying to sling my newest current products either.


g71 will have dhr+aa

1.FP16 Render Target MSAA Support: calidad con la ke se procesa el HDR

2.Hardware FP16 --> RGBA: un tipo de multisampling antiaaliasing, lo que da a entender que Nvidia podra hacer HDR + Filtros (ATI lo tiene implementado)

3.Hareware FP16 Tex Compression: compresion de texturas sobre fp16 ya ke meter HDR + FSAA debe consume un gran ancho de banda

http://www.chilehardware.cl/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=14345

look at the date and how close i got everything for ati :)

[krille]

metro, would you mind translating?

[DilTech]

I don't know if said R590 would be the same 80nm that x1900xl (if it exists) or R535 and the rest of the low-end refresh will be. Isn't it possible that R590 could be half-node, while the others are not? Half-node should supply a good deal of improvement with minimal hassle (according to everything i've seen) but the regular die shrink to 80nm planned for the lower-end refresh was planned well before TSMC made the announcement, hence why I think they could be more generic, like the craptacular 110nm x800xl.

Sure, I could be wrong, but I thought there were mentions of 80nm parts coming, and the fact R580 wasn't 80nm was because they needed time to perfect it and make it better. Could half-node be the betterness? Being that R600 is 65nm (http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3177) the only chance to use this half-node 80nm would be with a higher-end R580.

I just figure with G71 in March, and G80 in June...and the fact G71 will probably be better than the X1900XT (if you can live without HDR+AA)...and the fact R600 isn't coming until the end of the year...Something has to be cooking. ATi isn't going to wait 8-9 months to have competition with nvidia again, and the availability of GDDR4 will be right in-between G71 and G80...So even if they arn't, it would be in their best interest to get a leg up on G71, and something to compete with G80. Said guess on said product would fill said gap.

As for them not answering the questions Metro; not surprised. I wouldn't speak of future products when trying to sling my newest current products either.


I'm going to step forward and make a statement right here and now....
Those specs? Those are the one's that were claimed last june, take a look around...
65nm? Not happening... Take a good, long, hard look at TSMC's website. Look thru their press releases. Run a google search while you're at it. TSMC has no 65nm process.

We know ATi won't go 1.8ghz GDDR4 on the R600, which it also says it will, we have 1.8ghz GDDR3, again, showing how old those specs are... It'd be a bit of a step backwards, no?

As for HDR + AA, word is G71 has it. Word is G71 has high quality AF as well. As in, this time, ATi has no feature advantages at all once again.

Here's the real kicker... 64 vec + scalar shader pipelines... DX10 requires Geometry shaders too, not just vec + scalar. This is a huge obvious hole in those specs. The unified shader pipelines must be capable of going not just Vec and Scalar, but geometry as well!

Come on now turtle, lets not be so niave, mmmkay?

[perkam]

This can't die anytime soon...

[Starscream]

:banana: anyone here actualy going to the cebit?

[vapb400]

when/where exactly is it?

[Shadowmage]

110nm is not low-k, which is why X800XL performed poorly.

80nm is low-k, which is why an 80nm R590 will perform much better.

--


G71 will not have HDR + AA.

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=209725

[Starscream]

when/where exactly is it?


from 09-03-2006 till 15-03-2006
in hannover germany.
not to far for me.

@Shadowmage
we will see in a month when the card is launched, but i trust Metro.cl more then that guy that got it from another guy at AEG that got it from Nvidia (to many routes)

[nn_step]

So anyone here disagree with a possible showing of Socket F?

[Vapor]

Showing might occur, but that means nothing for actual release....a few products on the list above are going to be like that, IMO.

[Turok]

g71 will have dhr+aa

1.FP16 Render Target MSAA Support: calidad con la ke se procesa el HDR

2.Hardware FP16 --> RGBA: un tipo de multisampling antiaaliasing, lo que da a entender que Nvidia podra hacer HDR + Filtros (ATI lo tiene implementado)

3.Hareware FP16 Tex Compression: compresion de texturas sobre fp16 ya ke meter HDR + FSAA debe consume un gran ancho de banda

http://www.chilehardware.cl/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=14345

look at the date and how close i got everything for ati :)



metro, would you mind translating?
Here, Ill translate it for you:


"g71 will have HDR + AA

1) FP16 Render Target MSAA Support: the quality in which HDR is processed

2) Hardware FP16 --> RGBA: A type of multysampling antialiasing, which means nVidia will be able to do HDR + AA (Which ATi already has)

3) Hareware FP16 Texture Compression: compresses textures over FP16 since HDR + AA will consume a lot of bandwith"